Sign gifts are not in use today.
There is no Biblical proof for what is going on today,
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Spirit-filled churches, but what spirit?
- Thread starter reddogs
- Start date
There is no Biblical proof for what is going on today,
You can't even see where you contradicted your self so I'm done here.
Tenchi
Member
In my experience, the pursuit of "spiritual gifts" is often just an effort to sensualize Christian living, to make the spiritual a flesh-oriented thing. In these cases of sensualized "spirituality," being "spirit filled" means, "having experiences that stimulate my physical senses that I believe are manifestations of the Holy Spirit." There is a great deal of high emotion, even hysteria, that accompanies these "manifestations of the Spirit" which helps to give these sensual "experiences" of God more potency. And, generally, those chasing after such experiences do so in concert with others, feeding off the Mob Mentality in weekend "Spirit Fire" conferences, using the power of the group to inflame and normalize their "experiences." If everyone around you is having a spiritual freak-out, you'll be far more disposed to having one yourself. No one's going to censure you for losing your marbles, cackling like a possessed person while you roll around a bit on the floor, when they're doing the same, right?
The chief aim in a sensual pursuit of God, it seems to me, is to bring God out of the spiritual realm into the material realm so that He can be interacted with in the way all other human interactions with material reality are accomplished. We taste, touch, smell, hear and see the physical world around us and know it as real by doing so. The sensual Christian wants the same experience of God; they want Him to be accessible to their physical senses, too; they want Him to stimulate their fleshly means of perception. When He does, they know He is real.
But this sensual, fleshly approach to experiencing God is entirely opposite what the Bible indicates a true and normal (common or typical) experience of God will be. When God interacts with us, He does so as a Being of Spirit (John 4:23), as an incorporeal Being. In the Person of the Holy Spirit, God moves into, and upon, us but first and foremost to spiritual effect, not physical. When the Holy Spirit makes of a person his "temple" they are not physically altered. No, they take on new spiritual attributes, made a "new creature in Christ" by the Spirit (2 Corinthians 5:17; Titus 3:5; 1 Corinthians 6:19-20; Ephesians 2:1-10; Romans 8:9-16, etc.), who is pursuing in and through them eternal, Christ-centered, spiritual purposes, not primarily earthly, temporal ones.
Colossians 3:1-4
1 If then you have been raised with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.
2 Set your minds on things that are above, not on things that are on earth.
3 For you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God.
4 When Christ who is your life appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.
Philippians 3:20-21
20 But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,
21 who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself.
Matthew 6:19-20
19 “Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal,
20 but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal.
Romans 8:22-24
22 For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now.
23 And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.
24 For in this hope we were saved...
2 Peter 3:10-13
10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed.
11 Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of people ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness,
12 waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be set on fire and dissolved, and the heavenly bodies will melt as they burn!
13 But according to his promise we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.
I cite these verses because among those folk seeking a sensual, fleshly, physical experience of God, there is an unavoidable preoccupation with the fleshly and the temporal that accompanies this sort of "spirituality." This is made particularly evident in the revolting "Spirit soaking," or "Spirit toking," or "Spirit drunkenness" sessions that are popular among these sensual believers. Blasphemous things, these are, associating the Holy Spirit with some of the most carnal and corrupt activities of human beings, making him into the spiritual equivalent of a hot tub, or bottle of whiskey, or illicit drug.
In any case, God's word repeatedly makes a very clear divide between the fleshly and the spiritual, establishing that they are not at all compatible.
Romans 8:5-8
5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit.
6 For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace.
7 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God’s law; indeed, it cannot.
8 Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
Galatians 5:16-17
16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.
17 For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do.
Galatians 6:7-8
7 Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that will he also reap.
8 For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.
Philippians 3:18-19
18 For many, of whom I have often told you and now tell you even with tears, walk as enemies of the cross of Christ.
19 Their end is destruction, their god is their belly, and they glory in their shame, with minds set on earthly things.
Jude 1:17-19
17 But, beloved, remember the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;
18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
19 These are they who cause divisions, sensual, having not the Spirit.
A spiritual experience of God simply cannot be a flesh-oriented one, it cannot be an experience that seeks to stimulate the physical senses but is, rather, an experience of the mind, and heart, and spirit, those immaterial parts of us constituting our "inner wo/man." God meets us on the level of this inner person, wanting to effect change in him/her, knowing as He does that it is this person who is eternal and bears His image. And so, when we are reconciled to Him through Christ, the very first thing God does is alter our immaterial, inner person, giving him/her an entirely new, entirely spiritual, identity in Jesus.
It is, I believe, a profound corruption of what walking with God is supposed to be when doing so is oriented upon one's physical senses, stimulating and gratifying them, when fellowship with God is defined by high emotionality - hysteria, even - at every turn. I've met Christians who sneer at their fellows who don't gush and groan as they do during Sunday morning worship services, believing their spiritual siblings spiritual infants, starved of "true spirituality," because they don't sway, and lift hands and tear-soaked cheeks heavenward during the singing. No believer, they think, can have a truly spiritual experience with God apart from high emotion, and incoherent speech, and perhaps a moment or two of convulsion. How deeply wrong these people are!
Psalm 46:10
10 “Be still, and know that I am God...”
Isaiah 30:15
15 For thus said the Lord GOD, the Holy One of Israel, “In returning and rest you shall be saved; in quietness and in trust shall be your strength.”...
Psalm 23:1-2
1 The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.
2 He makes me lie down in green pastures. He leads me beside still waters.
Galatians 5:22-23
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
Matthew 11:28-30
28 Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”
Where is the gentleness, and rest, and peace of Christ in convulsion, and hysteria, and nonsensical babbling? How is it that some think sensuality and spirituality are two sides of the same coin? "Walking in the Spirit" has nothing to do with sensual appeals to the flesh; it has nothing to do with out-of-control behavior; it doesn't involve making God into a "trick pony." No, life in the Spirit is about love, faith, submission, truth, holiness and fellowship with God, it is about the life of the inner person, not tingles across your skin, or babbling like a monkey, or winding yourself up emotionally.
Leaving out the Bible?
The old covenant. I guess that is Bible. What is the purpose of the old covenants, Law of Moses, prophets?
What has that become?
The word became flesh. That flesh bore our sins in His Body on the cross that we might die to sin and live unto righteousness, by his stripes we were healed. IP224
Creation, disaster, miracles, wisdom, knowledge, understanding.
Jesus came under the Law.
Jesus performed what the prophets did. Looked into men’s hearts, heald, raised from the dead.
Spiritual gifts. The bottom level of all spiritual gifts are tongues. You can get into a man’s inner secrets without a big show.
A stranger could get his message in private. Standing in a big crowd with no others knowing. Wonder what was said at Pentecost. This was a special group at Pentecost. Their ancestors had grieved over the sins of Israel. They were impressed. Why delete a good thing.
Mississippi redneck
eddif
Ok the gibberish.
It finally hit me about Pentecost.
Today even two people of the same language hear this:
Acts 2:20 kjv
20. The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
Person one hears literal from Joel
Person two hears the Father forsakes the bloody death of Jesus.
The two meanings are there, but the spiritual meaning comes by interpretation. A Parable type presentation sounds like gibberish to him who hears not.
The words of Joel are just like tongues.
Well it makes sense to me LOL
Mississippi redneck
eddif
It finally hit me about Pentecost.
Today even two people of the same language hear this:
Acts 2:20 kjv
20. The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
Person one hears literal from Joel
Person two hears the Father forsakes the bloody death of Jesus.
The two meanings are there, but the spiritual meaning comes by interpretation. A Parable type presentation sounds like gibberish to him who hears not.
The words of Joel are just like tongues.
Well it makes sense to me LOL
Mississippi redneck
eddif
reddogs
Member
The problem is that most churches have gone down the path with what can only be called, the 'wrong spirits...
I'm filled with the Holy Spirit, He rests upon the "head and face" of my inner man, the new creature born when I confessed Jesus Christ is LORD, the Son of God and that God raised Him from the dead, publicly.
But continualism cannot be correct, for then we would still have apostles continuing what the twelve did, raising the dead and writing scripture.
And while I agree TARE children of the Devil sown among the wheat have become many in these end times, there are true Christians among them who are confused by what they see. Their anointing informs them "something is wrong" but when they look at Scripture and see the NT shows these things occurring in Corinth, they conclude "there must be a baby in the bathwater, even if I never actually see it."
The supernatural acts seen today are different in power and efficacy than what is seen in the NT, therefore I conclude its not the same thing as the 1st century church. Therefore, they cannot be a "continuation" of what we see in the scripture.
Its something different.
Eventually the Christians among the TARES figure that out and leave the babblers behind in obedience to Scripture.
That's what happened to me.
The "wheat among the weeds" can be identified by their fruits, not by doing supernatural acts:
15 "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.
16 "You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles?
17 "Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
18 "A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.
19 "Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 "Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
21 "Not everyone who says to Me,`Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 "Many will say to Me in that day,`Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'
23 "And then I will declare to them,`I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'
(Matt. 7:15-23 NKJ)
Although I am a cessationist, I believe that's only temporary.
That Joel's prophecy has a dual fulfillment, 1st century and during the end time "week" when God's witnesses Moses and Elijah appear. Then the anointing of the Holy Spirit will inspire prophecy in the church, and all the other signs of the end shall appear:
16 "But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:
17 `And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God, That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your young men shall see visions, Your old men shall dream dreams.
18 And on My menservants and on My maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days; And they shall prophesy.
19 I will show wonders in heaven above And signs in the earth beneath: Blood and fire and vapor of smoke.
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the LORD.
21 And it shall come to pass That whoever calls on the name of the LORD Shall be saved.' (Acts 2:16-21 NKJ)
NKJ Zechariah 4:1 Now the angel who talked with me came back and wakened me, as a man who is wakened out of his sleep.
2 And he said to me, "What do you see?" So I said, "I am looking, and there is a lampstand of solid gold with a bowl on top of it, and on the stand seven lamps with seven pipes to the seven lamps.
3 "Two olive trees are by it, one at the right of the bowl and the other at its left."
4 So I answered and spoke to the angel who talked with me, saying, "What are these, my lord?"
5 Then the angel who talked with me answered and said to me, "Do you not know what these are?" And I said, "No, my lord."
6 So he answered and said to me: "This is the word of the LORD to Zerubbabel:`Not by might nor by power, but by My Spirit,' Says the LORD of hosts.
7 `Who are you, O great mountain? Before Zerubbabel you shall become a plain! And he shall bring forth the capstone With shouts of "Grace, grace to it!"'"
8 Moreover the word of the LORD came to me, saying:
9 "The hands of Zerubbabel Have laid the foundation of this temple; His hands shall also finish it. Then you will know That the LORD of hosts has sent Me to you.
10 For who has despised the day of small things? For these seven rejoice to see The plumb line in the hand of Zerubbabel. They are the eyes of the LORD, Which scan to and fro throughout the whole earth."
11 Then I answered and said to him, "What are these two olive trees-- at the right of the lampstand and at its left?"
12 And I further answered and said to him, "What are these two olive branches that drip into the receptacles of the two gold pipes from which the golden oil drains?"
13 Then he answered me and said, "Do you not know what these are?" And I said, "No, my lord."
14 So he said, "These are the two anointed ones, who stand beside the Lord of the whole earth." (Zech. 4:1-14 NKJ)
NKJ Revelation 11:1 Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. And the angel stood, saying, "Rise and measure the temple of God, the altar, and those who worship there.
2 "But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months.
3 "And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth."
4 These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands standing before the God of the earth. (Rev. 11:1-4 NKJ)
The olive trees and lamps symbolize the outpouring Divine illumination by the Holy Spirit in great measure upon the church, to strengthen it during the persecution by the Antichrist Beast Adonikam.
Nothing can replace or take the place of Scripture. God's Word was "once delivered" to the saints:
Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints. (Jude 1:3 NKJ)
Paul denied the Corinthian prophets and tongues were "the word of God", only Paul preached 'the Word of God" and therefore it only came "to them", not "from them":
36 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?
37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant. (1 Cor. 14:36-38 KJV)
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reddogs
Member
I think we will see the outpouring shortly, as many are seeing their Bibles don't quite say what some pastors were claiming..
We are in the latter days of the first out pouring of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost, but yet the blindness continues as people would rather believe their Pastor without studying the full context of scripture for themselves allowing the Holy Spirit teach them. This is not to say I always have it right for when I am in unknowing error the Holy Spirit has always sent someone to correct me and so thankful for that as I do not want to teach in error.
I sure agree about the Lord sending someone.
I also have learned that we do not define who we willl accept as the right messanger.
When Saul of Tarsus was blind he prayed. Jesus chose someone who did not want the assignment.
When we need help, we do a generic help. Jesus at the right hand of the Father knows who to send. Both people may benefit.
Even then it is at the last trump when final changes are made. Paul made major changes, but he realized that there were still changes to come.
Mississippi redneck
eddif
The outpouring of the Holy Spirit—the pouring out of God’s Spirit to fill and indwell people—was prophesied in the Old Testament and fulfilled at Pentecost (Acts 2). This event was predicted in the Old Testament: in Isaiah 44:3 God said to Israel, “I will pour water on the thirsty land, and streams on the dry ground; I will pour out my Spirit on your offspring, and my blessing on your descendants.” The Holy Spirit is pictured as the “water of life” that saves and blesses a dying people. On the day of Pentecost, Peter quoted another prophecy as being fulfilled: “I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions. Even on my servants, both men and women, I will pour out my Spirit in those days. . . . And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved” (Joel 2:28–29, 32).
The outpouring of the Holy Spirit ushered in a new era, the church age. In the Old Testament, the Holy Spirit was a rare gift that was only given to a few people, and usually for only short periods of time. When Saul was anointed king of Israel, the Holy Spirit came upon him (1 Samuel 10:10), but when God removed His blessing on Saul, the Holy Spirit left him (1 Samuel 16:14). The Holy Spirit came for specific moments or seasons in the lives of Othniel (Judges 3:10), Gideon (Judges 6:34), and Samson (Judges 13:25; 14:6) as well, to enable them to do His will and serve Israel. At Pentecost, the Holy Spirit was poured out on all believers in Christ, and He came to stay. This marked a major change in the Holy Spirit’s work.
Before His arrest, Jesus had promised to send His disciples the Holy Spirit (John 14:15–17). The Spirit “lives with you and will be in you,” Jesus said (John 14:17). This was a prophecy of the indwelling of the Spirit, another distinctive of the church age. The outpouring of the Holy Spirit in Acts 2 marked the fulfillment of Jesus’ words, too, as the Holy Spirit came upon all believers in a powerful, visible (and audible) way. Luke records the event: “Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them” (Acts 2:2–4). Immediately, the Spirit-filled believers went into the streets of Jerusalem and preached Christ. Three thousand people were saved and baptized that day; the church had begun (verse 41).
The outpouring of the Holy Spirit upon humanity was the inauguration of the New Covenant, which had been ratified by Jesus’ blood (Luke 22:20). According to the terms of the New Covenant, every believer is given the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13). Ever since Pentecost, the Holy Spirit has baptized every believer into Christ at the moment of salvation (1 Corinthians 12:13), as He comes to permanently indwell God’s children.
In the book of Acts, there are three “outpourings” of the Holy Spirit, to three different people groups at three different times. The first was to Jews and proselytes in Jerusalem (Acts 2). The second was to a group of believing Samaritans (Acts 8). The third was to a group of believing Gentiles (Acts 10). Significantly, Peter was present at all three outpourings. Three times, God sent the Holy Spirit with demonstrable signs, as the Great Commission was being fulfilled. The same Holy Spirit coming upon Jews, Samaritans, and Gentiles in the same manner in the presence of the same apostle kept the early church unified. There was not a “Jewish” church, a “Samaritan” church, and a “Roman” church—there was one church, “one Lord, one faith, one baptism” (Ephesians 4:5).
The outpouring of the Spirit is different from the filling of the Spirit. The outpouring was a unique coming of the Holy Spirit to earth; the filling happens whenever we are surrendered to God’s control of our lives. We are commanded to be filled with the Spirit (Ephesians 5:18). In this regard it is possible for the believer either to be “filled with the Spirit” or to “quench” the Spirit (1 Thessalonians 5:19). In either case, the Holy Spirit remains with the believer (as opposed to the Old Testament era, when the Holy Spirit would come and go). The filling of the Spirit comes as a direct result of submission to God’s will, and the quenching is a direct result of rebelling against God’s will.
Some still look for an “outpouring” of the Holy Spirit on a specific group of people in a specific place or time, but there is no biblical support for the repeat of such a Pentecost-style event. The church has already begun; the apostles have already laid that foundation (Ephesians 2:20). Sometimes we sing songs that ask the Holy Spirit to “come”; the reality is that He has already come to us—at the moment of salvation—and, once He comes, He doesn’t leave. The outpouring of the Spirit is a completed prophecy that ushered in the church age and the New Covenant in which all believers are given the Holy Spirit.
electedbyhim
Would you give your opinion about the fire?
And
Not to lay a secret trap. I sure have some differences in some of your statements.
Mississippi redneck
eddif
Would you give your opinion about the fire?
And
Not to lay a secret trap. I sure have some differences in some of your statements.
Mississippi redneck
eddif
I can agree with most of this, but what Joel prophesied of the out pouring of the Holy Spirit in the those days to come was fulfilled on the day of Pentecost that the outpouring of the Holy Spirit began that day and will be greater in the last days as there is no longer certain groups as there is are no more Jews or Gentiles, but all who are of faith have become one body in Christ through the Baptism of Christ to receive the Holy Spirit when we first believed at the beginning of our salvation through Christ Jesus and were baptized in Him.
Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Joel 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
Joel 2:29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.
Joel 2:30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
Joel 2:31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
Joel 2:32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.
Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
Act 2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
Act 2:19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
Act 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
Act 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
reddogs
Member
Which we must do today, it still is important as unclean spirits lead whole churches unto perdition..
Well, yes..... sort of, as allowed? If unclean impure counterfeit or other wrong spirit lead whole churches to destruction, including on the internet, television, youtube, and from pulpits?, how then can the pure truth be shared without being attacked ? i.e. it cannot. When someone speaks up for the truth,
even a child asking a question honestly that does or would or could expose the false lessons , they don't really have a chance of changing things , do they ? That which is false is called true, while that which is true is called false, just as written in Scripture and overwhelmingly recently worldwide, and throughout history.
This pertains to all fields, countries, groups, in large part. Only a few stick with the Bible, even about religious things.... in that way ; the Bible does prove , or rather foretell - prophesy - of the world wide deepception that has been going on for generations..
Simple. Good. True. From Scripture.
Not regularly honestly done. Still required before believing any......
This is an important question to remember daily , as instructed by the Creator Revealed Truth in the Bible.
Not only 'those' groups, but anywhere, worldwide.
One perspective , or a way to see how Jesus works in our lives today,
is to remember that Jesus has not changed - Jesus is always the healer. Not only , but also all in all - wisdom, knowledge, strength, guard, savior, so much all at once not part by part, not piecemeal ....
So wherever Jesus is, He Simply Does as He Pleases.
Those who claim to have a word, or the word, He said to them in the first century "You search the Scripture (they knew Scripture better than anyone today practically; and in the original) thinking that in Scripture you will find LIFE; ... " but what ? They still sought to kill Jesus !!
Note that Jesus did not prove the miracles to anyone. He still does not prove the miracles today.