Submissive women

[childeye]

The whole reason Adam listened to Eve was because he was unsure of himself. Consequently Men don't feel the need to prove themselves unless intimidated into doing so. The results are usually bad.

 

[Classik]

The whole reason Adam listened to Eve was because he was unsure of himself. Consequently Men don't feel the need to prove themselves unless intimidated into doing so. The results are usually bad.

Love can make someone blind;)
He decided to disobey God in order to prove his love to his sugar honey popcorn, Eve.

His wrong choice

 

[Jethro Bodine]

A partial quote here...

Can you relate a bit more thought to those who have a unsaved spouse....

Yes. I would be glad to...

"1 Wives, in the same way be submissive to your husbands..." (1 Peter 3:1 NIV1984)

In the same way as what? If we back up we can see what 'in the same way' is referring to:

18 Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh. 19 For it is commendable if a man bears up under the pain of unjust suffering because he is conscious of God. 20 But how is it to your credit if you receive a beating for doing wrong and endure it? But if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable before God. 21 To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps. (1 Peter 2:18-21 NIV1984)

The presumption is (and I believe it is usually correct) that submitting to an unsaved spouse is not a very pleasant experience. They may be mean, offensive, self-centered, insensitive...but the counsel of scripture is to submit nevertheless and endure it righteously. Easy for me, a husband, to say, right? Read what I have to say to handy...

 

[reba]

maybe i will end up with a heck of a crown

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Love can make someone blind;)
He decided to disobey God in order to prove his love to his sugar honey popcorn, Eve.

("sugar honey popcorn"? Lol!)


I have to interject here before I get to handy's post.

The story of Adam and Eve is the greatest love story ever told. Adam saw his beloved wife eat the forbidden fruit that he knew would bring her death. Out of love he followed her in death and willingly ate the same fruit. (Remember, Eve was the one deceived, not Adam).

Do you see it? It's a picture of Christ and his love for his bride. We were deceived and broke the command and were sentenced to death. Christ, out of love, willingly took the sin of his bride and the penalty of death on himself so he could be with his bride. That truly is 'The Greatest (love) Story Ever Told'.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

maybe i will end up with a heck of a crown

Amen, sister! I'm rejoicing with you!

(I have my own unbelieving spouse that makes me more than sympathetic to your situation...trust me.)

 

[Danus]

A partial quote here...

Can you relate a bit more thought to those who have a unsaved spouse....

I know this is JB's question, but I want to answer also. In this case Reba, I believe a Godly woman should lead. I think it's her duty to be the spiritual leader. Now, I think at some point as she sees spiritual progress in that man, she need to trust in that and let him have the opportunity to lead.

There are men who have messed up, and men who start down that road of redemption. That man needs a woman to let him have the opportunity to be the man God would have him be. Maybe little by little. That too, is a woman's obligation to God.

My mother was the spiritual leader of our home growing up. My dad was second. As he grew in the lord, he became more, but even to this day my mom is the lead. My parents are in their 80's. How I wished my dad could have taken that lead.

They say every man leaves a legacy of some sort. I decided a long time ago that I don't want my legacy to be that of my dad's. But I love my dad for leaving me with the legacy that he could. To be better.

None of this is easy. That's why God needs to be at the center of it.

 

[childeye]

Love can make someone blind;)
He decided to disobey God in order to prove his love to his sugar honey popcorn, Eve.

His wrong choice

The circumstances are a bit more complex than that. Adam most likely ate because he wanted to find out for himself if God was lying to Him. The serpent and the woman were probably pressuring him to not be a sap, and for lack of confidence in what he probably believed deep down, he caved. I would think every man should be able to relate.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

It's very tempting for some women to use "as is fitting in the Lord" or "we are to obey God before man" as an excuse to not submit to their husbands.

Naturally, there are some things a husband might desire to do that it would be best for his helpmeet to refuse to go along with. But, unless one is married to an evil man, these situations probably don't crop up all that often.

I know when my husband wanted to go to the ELCA, it was tempting for me to think, "This is an occaison where I should not submit and refuse to go". However, I was blessed to have a very wise Christian woman, a woman about 15 years older than me, and one who was used to having a less than godly man as a husband, tell me how important submission would be in this area. God used her to show me that He wanted me to submit to Steve in this. It was hard, but I did it...and boy, how God used that experience to work mightily in Steve's heart!

This same woman also counseled another woman in our group who wanted to defy her non-Christian husband and take her kids to church Sunday morning, even though he wanted Sunday to remain as family time as that was the only day he had off when the kids were home. My wise friend told her, "God doesn't command you to go to church on Sunday, He does command you to submit to your husband."

One thing that I think all of us who were a part of that bible study group learned was how much God can use a wife's submissiveness to change a husband's heart. Wives often make the mistake of thinking, since he's not doing this, or he's not doing it "right", as his helpmeet, I'd better just take over.

This might sound belittling to husbands, and believe me, I don't mean it to be so...but, just as mother will undermine and actually weaken her children by doing everything for them, so a wife will undermine her husband and eventually either weaken him, or frustrate and anger him, by trying to "take over".

You don't know how much this thrills me when I hear a woman's testimony of the joy she has because she learned to submit to her husband. I wish every woman could know the joy the Lord gives when they obey Him and submit to authority. You see we men have our own struggle with submitting to authority. That's how I know about the joy of this obedience, too, even though I'm not a wife.

Many years ago I hurt my back and had to find new work sitting down. I ended up in a very abusive office. The abuse was almost unbearable, but I knew my obligation as a Christian to endure harsh authority righteously, and of course, I needed the job. I'm a grown man but the pain literally brought me to tears a couple of times. I could make this a long story but I'm not going to. I will just say it is to this day it was probably the biggest experience through which my faith and obedience and joy in God has grown.

I eventually saw the boss that abused me so bad (the VP) lose his job in a humiliating manner and get demoted to a salesman. He humbly approached me one day just before he left and we had a brief talk. I was utterly stunned at how circumstances had turned so drastically and he was now so humbled before me. All through the experience God was with me in some of the most profound ways of all my walk with him.

The next boss was not abusive but he was very harsh and demanding and threatening. So the discipline of submitting to harsh authority continued. As I determined to serve without resentment, or bitterness, or back talk God exalted me to a very high place. I continued to enjoy the wonderful presence and ministry of God's love through it all and I won the respect and admiration of my boss. I became his right hand man in his accounts. I remember him barely being able to hold back his tears when I told him I was leaving and moving away.

Even though he was harsh and demanding, and nobody liked him because of it (trust me on this), when he retired I hoped with all my heart to God to bless him in his retirement. It's amazing how your heart will change when you obey God and submit to the authority God has placed in your life, even when it hurts to do it.

So, we men are not unfamiliar with this matter of godly submission (and it's rewards). I learned so much about submission from the experience and thought if all women could only know how to do this, too, and be blessed for it their lives would be transformed from bitterness to beauty.

Women, trust me on this. Do just as the Bible says and act in your relationship with your husband with the same kind of respect expected in an employee-employer relationship and you will be transformed. I know it's going to be hard to accept, but really, Biblically, the husband is like the owner of the house and the woman is the trusted manager. This does not mean the owner of the house gets to be a tyrant. It means you, the manager of the household, will find the abundance of God's promised joy if you let your husband be the boss and you serve wholeheartedly just like an employee (should) seek to do for their employer. That means honoring and respecting his decisions even when they're stupid and misguided and seems to put a big burden on you, and always being there to be helpful and supportive and 'keep his back' and offer kind and humble advice when you can, not Lording it over him in a demeaning and harsh manner. It is the secret, IMO, to the successful Christian marriage. I'm convinced.

Do you women want to know how to melt your husband's heart and change him into a passionately romantic lover that has your every need and desire at heart? RESPECT HIM. And do it without bitterness and ungrudgingly (and it won't even cost you $25.00). Oh, how my heart aches that every Christian woman would learn this truth.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Originally Posted by reba
"Can you relate a bit more thought to those who have a unsaved spouse...."

I know this is JB's question, but I want to answer also. In this case Reba, I believe a Godly woman should lead. I think it's her duty to be the spiritual leader.

I know you haven't qualified what a woman taking spiritual leadership would look like exactly, but I agree with this insofar as Peter describes what the spiritual obedience of the woman caught in the circumstances of being married to an unsaved man should look like:

1 Wives, in the same way be submissive to your husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives, 2 when they see the purity and reverence of your lives." (1 Peter 3:1-2 NIV1984)

In essence, the spiritual authority a woman has is the obedience Peter says she should walk in--the obedience of a quiet, pure, and reverent life. An obedience that may win the big slug over. It sure won't happen if a woman is demanding, harsh, critical, and argumentative...and she won't have the joy of the Lord either.

Just as my boss was won over, so to speak, by my godly submission, despite his harshness, so a woman can win over her husband through her godly submission. It's going to take faith, but it really is God's will for the situation...and something he will reward mightily, even if for you alone.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The circumstances are a bit more complex than that. Adam most likely ate because he wanted to find out for himself if God was lying to Him. The serpent and the woman were probably pressuring him to not be a sap, and for lack of confidence in what he probably believed deep down, he caved. I would think every man should be able to relate.

Whatever his reasons were, lol, it's a beautiful type and shadow of Christ and us, his bride.

 

[reba]

Thanks for all the replys this has been an enjoyable read....

Here is a point blank question...

Unsaved DH says Jesus Christ and other things often is it unsubmissive to nag (after asking for 48 years its a nag).... or to make a sarcastic come back like wow your taking up praying?

 

[Classik]

Up brother Jeroboam.....eh....sorry Jethro Bodine. What was I thinking:dunno
Wonderful responses: Women, submit unto your husbands.
----
How about the unsufferable waspy dudes? Some men are just terrible. I have seen some.

Give him a peck: he says you are no good.
Give him candy: he says it's sandy.
Give him some salad: he says it's salty.
Wash his clothes: he says you've torn them
Smile: he says your smile is ghostly.
Tell him a story: he says it's tripe.
Buy him a cupboard: he says it looks like a coffin.
Sacrifice your dough and buy him a cool ride: he says it looks like an ambulance.
etc
etc
etc
etc
Some guys are unbearable, Jet. How about these sons of guns??:bigfrown

Wouldn't a slap awaken his brain? Just kidding.
(It seems most men become humble when their money begins to count down to zero. In that case the wife is my candy, my sugar, my cake, my chocolate, my laptop, my laughter. Just let his money begin to multiply: that woman I married, that bore, that headache, that this and that that.

Bodine, how about them?

 

[Tina]

Here is a point blank question...

Unsaved DH says Jesus Christ and other things often is it unsubmissive to nag (after asking for 48 years its a nag).... or to make a sarcastic come back like wow your taking up praying?

Who is DH ?


It's depends on the men. Some men have high tolerance for nagging, some don't. Some take it in their stride, some get offensive and defensive. Is the woman to blame for driving them to nag ?

I love my man cos when I tell him something repeatedly, which may sound like nagging, he responds that he understands me very well, he is willing to consider it and that I don't have to repeat myself anymore, and so we leave it at that.

If only men will communicate in that manner, why would women have to nag ?


The Bible does have some things to say against nagging and quarrelsome wife ....


Proverbs 21:9 ; Proverbs 25:24
Better to live on a corner of the roof than share a house with a quarrelsome wife.


Proverbs 21:19
Better to live in a desert than with a quarrelsome and nagging wife.

 

[Tina]

How about the unsufferable waspy dudes? Some men are just terrible. I have seen some.

Give him a peck: he says you are no good.
Give him candy: he says it's sandy.
Give him some salad: he says it's salty.
Wash his clothes: he says you've torn them
Smile: he says your smile is ghostly.
Tell him a story: he says it's tripe.
Buy him a cupboard: he says it looks like a coffin.
Sacrifice your dough and buy him a cool ride: he says it looks like an ambulance.
etc
etc
etc
etc
Some guys are unbearable, Jet. How about these sons of guns??:bigfrown

Wouldn't a slap awaken his brain? Just kidding.
(It seems most men become humble when their money begins to count down to zero. In that case the wife is my candy, my sugar, my cake, my chocolate, my laptop, my laughter. Just let his money begin to multiply: that woman I married, that bore, that headache, that this and that that.

These are the rare and extreme type ... not the norm of a true Christian man.


The Bible says men are to respect and be considerate of their wives, if not, even their prayers will be hindered !


1 Peter 3:7
Husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live with your wives, and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and as heirs with you of the gracious gift of life, so that nothing will hinder your prayers.

 

[Danus]

Thanks for all the replys this has been an enjoyable read....

Here is a point blank question...

Unsaved DH says Jesus Christ and other things often is it unsubmissive to nag (after asking for 48 years its a nag).... or to make a sarcastic come back like wow your taking up praying?

If I'm understanding the question correctly, I think an unsaved man is not privileged to use biblical principals of what he thinks the bible is saying about his role. ....no good way to say that. But, a saved woman to that man can use spiritual leadership skills to lead that man to Christ, and otherwise be a positive influence to that man.

There are many stories of one spouse being saved, turning to Christ, and influencing the other simply by their actions, and living for Christ. Often I think the saved spouse in those situations sort of says; "I know he or she is not saved, but I married them and I will honer them by honoring God." God is the first love for anyone, but we love, and influence, others through that relationship with God, not directly through the relationship with that person.

 

[reba]

Who is DH ?


It's depends on the men. Some men have high tolerance for nagging, some don't. Some take it in their stride, some get offensive and defensive. Is the woman to blame for driving them to nag ?

I love my man cos when I tell him something repeatedly, which may sound like nagging, he responds that he understands me very well, he is willing to consider it and that I don't have to repeat myself anymore, and so we leave it at that.

If only men will communicate in that manner, why would women have to nag ?


The Bible does have some things to say against nagging and quarrelsome wife ....


Proverbs 21:9 ; Proverbs 25:24
Better to live on a corner of the roof than share a house with a quarrelsome wife.


Proverbs 21:19
Better to live in a desert than with a quarrelsome and nagging wife.

DH = dear husband...

almost 50 years of listing to the names of God use in not so nice ways some pretty darn ugly..

I agree with the scriptures absolutely. Been over and over them a million years....

Nuff about me...and my crybaby self...

1Co 7:13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.
1Co 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.

Is sanctified in this verse sanctified?

G37

From G40; to make holy, that is, (ceremonially) purify or consecrate; (mentally) to venerate: - hallow, be holy, sanctify.

G40

From ἅγος hagos (an awful thing) compare G53, [H2282]; sacred (physically pure, morally blameless or religious, ceremonially consecrated): - (most) holy (one, thing), saint

G53
hag-nos'
From the same as G40; properly clean, that is, (figuratively) innocent, modest, perfect: - chaste, clean, pure.


The Words tells us marriage is ONE flesh... is an unsaved spouse sorta like the parts of each of us that we pray, hope, try to make better..... as individuals we are not perfect although saved is the unbelieving spouse saved in light of the above verses?

 

[Danus]

The Words tells us marriage is ONE flesh... is an unsaved spouse sorta like the parts of each of us that we pray, hope, try to make better..... as individuals we are not perfect although saved is the unbelieving spouse saved in light of the above verses?

Sort of saved by proxy, of the saved person? I don't know that I would agree that's the case, but I think there is hope for the unsaved spouse through the saved spouse in modeling the love of Christ.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Some guys are unbearable, Jet. How about these sons of guns??:bigfrown

Wouldn't a slap awaken his brain? Just kidding.
(It seems most men become humble when their money begins to count down to zero. In that case the wife is my candy, my sugar, my cake, my chocolate, my laptop, my laughter. Just let his money begin to multiply: that woman I married, that bore, that headache, that this and that that.

Bodine, how about them?

Don't know...I can't relate (chuckle, chuckle).

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Here is a point blank question...

Unsaved DH says Jesus Christ and other things often is it unsubmissive to nag (after asking for 48 years its a nag).... or to make a sarcastic come back like wow your taking up praying?

It's only a matter of submission as far as you harboring contempt or disrespect for his position of authority because of the things he does that you don't like. It goes back to that "you're not worthy of my respect for you as an authority figure because of what you do wrong" kind of thing. As hard as it is to accept, God did not place the condition of having to be worthy, or a person having to be godly in order for us to submit to, and respect their authority. As we saw in scripture, Peter makes it quite clear what we are to do in regard to authority that is not worthy, or godly.

I learned with my unbelieving spouse that it does absolutely no good to shame their ungodly behavior and attitudes. It took me a loooong time to figure out that few people can be shamed into the kingdom. The truth is, the Bible speaks of God's kindness leading people to repentance, not his condemnation of them. I let my wife be just the person she has chosen she wants to be and I only say something when what she does or thinks affects the family in an important way, or I'm truly interested in helping her, and I can do it in a loving, non-condemning way. It's brought a lot of peace, especially in me, and has created a much more favorable environment for her to be open to the gospel. Though at this time she is still resisting the gospel.