Sunday School/Small Group

[Jethro Bodine]

You may believe God punished Jesus on the cross.... and I believe God rescued Him from the consequences He chose to accept on our behalf. Which is "THE" truth?

In Jethro's church, we talk about it, which includes hearing all sides of it, and we say 'I don't know' when that's the case (including the pastor), and we respect everyone's input into the discussion. The reason this won't erupt into chaos is because the pastor and elders have made it very clear the church exists to raise God's people up into the image of Christ, not raise up 'doctrinal' Christians who think the epitome of being a Christian is knowing and vehemently defending doctrinal positions, as if believing in correct doctrine is the 'believing' that God requires and is pleased with.

the flock has to be guarded strange fire (doctrine) can get carried away. that is where a good leader that knows the word . would have to step in in it got out of control.

Exactly! That's why I am against the Bible studies many churches have during the week.....the pastor is not in attendance, and sometimes not even an elder.

some churches you mention eternal security .is like waving a staek in front of Dog and expecting him to ignore it.

In Jethro's church (meaning the open church he attends) the one who wants to make sure that no one believes what he doesn't believe will find he has no place in the congregation because we're about actually experiencing and living for God and being changed people according to the fruit of the Spirit. He'll soon realize how out of place he is. Doctrinal Christians will be very disappointed with our meetings. And that's a good thing. We would want them to leave.

i am having a hard time understanding what many considers having a church service one said they would like a building and a retired pastor who was not after money.. i am not retired i have pastor 2 different Churches for FREE well they wanted give me the offering maybe 35.00 max once a month. i have done more preaching for free than i have paid... might i add it is Bible to pay the pastor . i am really confused as to many look for or think a church should be?

Great topic for discussion.
Don't have time to explain the details, but the point is, an effective size of a church is 20 to 40, maybe 60 people. But if you hire a pastor who's $100,000.00 in student loan debt, has two car payments, a mortgage, and expects to have benefits including retirement, well, for one, he's already quite different monetarily than most if not all of his congregation, and two, it will be a burden to support those kinds of financial requirements for a pastor.

I only mentioned a retired pastor because at this time in church history that would be the best answer to the $$ problem.

but then we have the church jumpers they stay at one church for a while .till they find another perfect Church and they soon realize its not ..mainly because they are there lol i call them spiritual church jumpers.

What's wrong with that? It's counter productive, even dangerous, to keep people who don't like your church around. In the open church I attend (in my dreams, lol) we'll provide the trampoline for the disgruntled, unsatisfied person to take a giant leap right out the front door. It never ends good when unhappy congregants hang around in silent anger waiting for an opportunity to explode in the hope of changing things to what they want. If churches stopped trying to hang on to unhappy congregants perhaps the only split they'd ever have is that one person leaving instead of them being allowed to fester among the people and end up dragging half the congregation off with him when he finally does leave.

Don't have time to go into detail, but the truth is, the open church is the pastor's church, not the congregations. His success or failure depends on whether he does, or doesn't do, the right things he's supposed to be doing. It's God's way of keeping his pastors and elders in line with the truth. But if it's the congregation's church it will be a chaotic mess, everyone vying for power in the group.

 

[Willie T]

In Jethro's church, we talk about it, which includes hearing all sides of it, and we say 'I don't know' when that's the case (including the pastor), and we respect everyone's input into the discussion. The reason this won't erupt into chaos is because the pastor and elders have made it very clear the church exists to raise God's people up into the image of Christ, not raise up 'doctrinal' Christians who think the epitome of being a Christian is knowing and vehemently defending doctrinal positions, as if believing in correct doctrine is the 'believing' that God requires and is pleased with.


Exactly! That's why I am against the Bible studies many churches have during the week.....the pastor is not in attendance, and sometimes not even an elder.


In Jethro's church (meaning the open church he attends) the one who wants to make sure that no one believes what he doesn't believe will find he has no place in the congregation because we're about actually experiencing and living for God and being changed people according to the fruit of the Spirit. He'll soon realize how out of place he is. Doctrinal Christians will be very disappointed with our meetings. And that's a good thing. We would want them to leave.


Great topic for discussion.
Don't have time to explain the details, but the point is, an effective size of a church is 20 to 40, maybe 60 people. But if you hire a pastor who's $100,000.00 in student loan debt, has two car payments, a mortgage, and expects to have benefits including retirement, well, for one, he's already quite different monetarily than most if not all of his congregation, and two, it will be a burden to support those kinds of financial requirements for a pastor.

I only mentioned a retired pastor because at this time in church history that would be the best answer to the $$ problem.


What's wrong with that? It's counter productive, even dangerous, to keep people who don't like your church around. In the open church I attend (in my dreams, lol) we'll provide the trampoline for the disgruntled, unsatisfied person to take a giant leap right out the front door. It never ends good when unhappy congregants hang around in silent anger waiting for an opportunity to explode in the hope of changing things to what they want. If churches stopped trying to hang on to unhappy congregants perhaps the only split they'd ever have is that one person leaving instead of them being allowed to fester among the people and end up dragging half the congregation off with him when he finally does leave.

Don't have time to go into detail, but the truth is, the open church is the pastor's church, not the congregations. His success or failure depends on whether he does, or doesn't do, the right things he's supposed to be doing. It's God's way of keeping his pastors and elders in line with the truth. But if it's the congregation's church it will be a chaotic mess, everyone vying for power in the group.

Wow! That open church you envision sounds too much like the kind of church I left more than 30 years ago.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Wow! That open church you envision sounds too much like the kind of church I left more than 30 years ago.

No. Probably not.
I doubt you have attended an open church as I am defending here. I doubt it very seriously.

 

[Willie T]

No. Probably not.
I doubt you have attended an open church as I am defending here. I doubt it very seriously.

Actually, I HAVE attended far too many churches that believe this way.

Don't have time to go into detail, but the truth is, the open church is the pastor's church, not the congregations. His success or failure depends on whether he does, or doesn't do, the right things he's supposed to be doing.

 

[GodsGrace]

This is from the Didache.
An early church document, probably the 90's when John was still alive, written by apostles of Jesus.
It tells of how Christian gathering is supposed to be.

IX
1. And concerning the Eucharist, hold Eucharist thus:
2. First concerning the Cup, "We give thanks to thee, our Father, for the Holy Vine of David thy child, which, thou didst make known to us through Jesus thy Child; to thee be glory for ever."
3. And concerning the broken Bread: "We give thee thanks, our Father, for the life and knowledge which thou didst make known to us through Jesus thy Child. To thee be glory for ever.
4. As this broken bread was scattered upon the mountains, but was brought together and became one, so let thy Church be gathered together from the ends of the earth into thy kingdom, for thine is the glory and the power through Jesus Christ for ever."
5. But let none eat or drink of your Eucharist except those who have been baptised in the Lord's Name. For concerning this also did the Lord say, "Give not that which is holy to the dogs."
X
1. But after you are satisfied with food, thus give thanks:
2. "We give thanks to thee, O Holy Father, for thy Holy Name which thou didst make to tabernacle in out hearts, and for the knowledge and faith and immortality which thou didst make known to us through Jesus thy Child. To thee be glory for ever.
3. Thou, Lord Almighty, didst create all things for thy Name's sake, and didst give food and drink to men for their enjoyment, that they might give thanks to thee, but us hast thou blessed with spiritual food and drink and eternal light through thy Child.
4. Above all we give thanks to thee for that thou art mighty. To thee be glory for ever.
5. Remember, Lord, thy Church, to deliver it from all evil and to make it perfect in thy love, and gather it together in its holiness from the four winds to thy kingdom which thou hast prepared for it. For thine is the power and the glory for ever.
6. Let grace come and let this world pass away. Hosannah to the God of David. If any man be holy, let him come! if any man be not, let him repent: Maranatha ("Our Lord! Come!"), Amen."
7. But suffer the prophets to hold Eucharist as they will.
XI
1. Whosoever then comes and teaches you all these things aforesaid, receive him.
2. But if the teacher himself be perverted and teach another doctrine to destroy these things, do not listen to him, but if his teaching be for the increase of righteousness and knowledge of the Lord, receive him as the Lord.
3. And concerning the Apostles and Prophets, act thus according to the ordinance of the Gospel.
4. Let every Apostle who comes to you be received as the Lord,
5. But let him not stay more than one day, or if need be a second as well; but if he stay three days, he is a false prophet.
6. And when an Apostle goes forth let him accept nothing but bread till he reach his night's lodging; but if he ask for money, he is a false prophet.
7. Do not test or examine any prophet who is speaking in a spirit, "for every sin shall be forgiven, but this sin shall not be forgiven."
8. But not everyone who speaks in a spirit is a prophet, except he have the behaviour of the Lord. From his behaviour, then, the false prophet and the true prophet shall be known.
9. And no prophet who orders a meal in a spirit shall eat of it: otherwise he is a false prophet.
10. And every prophet who teaches truth, if he do not what he teaches, is a false prophet.
11. But no prophet who has been tried and is genuine, though he enact a worldly mystery of the Church, if he teach not others to do what he does himself, shall be judged by you: for he has his judgment with God, for so also did the prophets of old.
12. But whosoever shall say in a spirit "Give me money, or something else," you shall not listen to him; but if he tell you to give on behalf of others in want, let none judge him.
XII
1. Let everyone who "comes in the Name of the Lord" be received; but when you have tested him you shall know him, for you shall have understanding of true and false.
2. If he who comes is a traveller, help him as much as you can, but he shall not remain with you more than two days, or, if need be, three.
3. And if he wishes to settle among you and has a craft, let him work for his bread.
4. But if he has no craft provide for him according to your understanding, so that no man shall live among you in idleness because he is a Christian.
5. But if he will not do so, he is making traffic of Christ; beware of such.
XIII
1. But every true prophet who wishes to settle among you is "worthy of his food."
2. Likewise a true teacher is himself worthy, like the workman, of his food.
3. Therefore thou shalt take the firstfruit of the produce of the winepress and of the threshingfloor and of oxen and sheep, and shalt give them as the firstfruits to the prophets, for they are your high priests.
4. But if you have not a prophet, give to the poor.
5. If thou makest bread, take the firstfruits, and give it according to the commandment.
6. Likewise when thou openest a jar of wine or oil, give the firstfruits to the prophets.
7. Of money also and clothes, and of all your possessions, take the firstfruits, as it seem best to you, and give according to the commandment.
XIV
1. On the Lord's Day of the Lord come together, break bread and hold Eucharist, after confessing your transgressions that your offering may be pure;
2. But let none who has a quarrel with his fellow join in your meeting until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice be not defiled.
3. For this is that which was spoken by the Lord, "In every place and time offer me a pure sacrifice, for I am a great king," saith the Lord, "and my name is wonderful among the heathen."
XV
1. Appoint therefore for yourselves bishops and deacons worthy of the Lord, meek men, and not lovers of money, and truthful and approved, for they also minister to you the ministry of the prophets and teachers.
2. Therefore do not despise them, for they are your honourable men together with the prophets and teachers.
3. And reprove one another not in wrath but in peace as you find in the Gospel, and let none speak with any who has done wrong to his neighbour, nor let him hear a word from you until he repents.
4. But your prayers and alms and all your acts perform as ye find in the Gospel of our Lord.
XVI
1. "Watch" over your life "let your lamps" be not quenched "and your loins" be not ungirded, but be "ready," for ye know not "the hour in which our Lord cometh."
2. But be frequently gathered together seeking the things which are profitable for your souls, for the whole time of your faith shall not profit you except ye be found perfect at the last time;
3. For in the last days the false prophets and the corruptors shall be multiplied, and the sheep shall be turned into wolves, and love shall change to hate;
4. For as lawlessness increaseth they shall hate one another and persecute and betray, and then shall appear the deceiver of the world as a Son of God, and shall do signs and wonders and the earth shall be given over into his hands and he shall commit iniquities which have never been since the world began.
5. Then shall the creation of mankind come to the fiery trial and "many shall be offended" and be lost, but "they who endure" in their faith "shall be saved" by the curse itself.
6. And "then shall appear the signs" of the truth. First the sign spread out in Heaven, then the sign of the sound of the trumpet, and thirdly the resurrection of the dead:
7. But not of all the dead, but as it was said, "The Lord shall come and all his saints with him."
8. Then shall the world "see the Lord coming on the clouds of Heaven."

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

 

[GodsGrace]

This article on the Didache is from Wikipedia:

Didache
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The Twelve Apostles (Moscow Museum)



The Didache (/ˈdɪdəkeɪ/ or /ˈdɪdəkiː/; Greek: Διδαχή, translit. Didakhé, lit. "Teaching"),[1] also known as The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles, is a brief anonymous early Christian treatise, dated by most modern scholars to the first century.[2] The first line of this treatise is "The teaching of the Lord to the Gentiles (or Nations) by the twelve apostles".[a] The text, parts of which constitute the oldest extant written catechism, has three main sections dealing with Christian ethics, rituals such as baptism and Eucharist, and Church organization. The opening chapters describe the virtuous Way of Life and the wicked Way of Death.[3] The Lord's Prayer is included in full.[3] Baptism is by immersion, or by affusion if immersion is not practical.[3] Fasting is ordered not to be with the hypocrites, on the second and fifth day of the week , but rather the fourth and sixth.[3] Two primitive Eucharistic prayers are given.[3] Church organization was at an early stage of development.[3] Itinerant apostles and prophets are important, serving as "chief priests" and possibly celebrating the Eucharist.[3] Meanwhile, local bishops and deacons also have authority and seem to be taking the place of the itinerant ministry.[3] The Didache is considered the first example of the genre of Church Orders.[3] The Didache reveals how Jewish Christians saw themselves and how they adapted their practice for Gentile Christians.[4] The Didache is similar in several ways to the Gospel of Matthew, perhaps because both texts originated in similar communities.[5] The opening chapters, which also appear in other early Christian texts, are likely derived from an earlier Jewish source.[3]

The Didache is considered part of the group of second-generation Christian writings known as the Apostolic Fathers. The work was considered by some Church Fathers to be a part of the New Testament,[6][7][8] while being rejected by others as spurious or non-canonical,[9][10][11] In the end, it was not accepted into the New Testament canon. However, the Ethiopian Orthodox Church "broader canon" includes the Didascalia, a work which draws on the Didache.

 

[WIP]

This is from the Didache.
An early church document, probably the 90's when John was still alive, written by apostles of Jesus.
It tells of how Christian gathering is supposed to be.

IX
1. And concerning the Eucharist, hold Eucharist thus:
2. First concerning the Cup, "We give thanks to thee, our Father, for the Holy Vine of David thy child, which, thou didst make known to us through Jesus thy Child; to thee be glory for ever."
3. And concerning the broken Bread: "We give thee thanks, our Father, for the life and knowledge which thou didst make known to us through Jesus thy Child. To thee be glory for ever.
4. As this broken bread was scattered upon the mountains, but was brought together and became one, so let thy Church be gathered together from the ends of the earth into thy kingdom, for thine is the glory and the power through Jesus Christ for ever."
5. But let none eat or drink of your Eucharist except those who have been baptised in the Lord's Name. For concerning this also did the Lord say, "Give not that which is holy to the dogs."
X
1. But after you are satisfied with food, thus give thanks:
2. "We give thanks to thee, O Holy Father, for thy Holy Name which thou didst make to tabernacle in out hearts, and for the knowledge and faith and immortality which thou didst make known to us through Jesus thy Child. To thee be glory for ever.
3. Thou, Lord Almighty, didst create all things for thy Name's sake, and didst give food and drink to men for their enjoyment, that they might give thanks to thee, but us hast thou blessed with spiritual food and drink and eternal light through thy Child.
4. Above all we give thanks to thee for that thou art mighty. To thee be glory for ever.
5. Remember, Lord, thy Church, to deliver it from all evil and to make it perfect in thy love, and gather it together in its holiness from the four winds to thy kingdom which thou hast prepared for it. For thine is the power and the glory for ever.
6. Let grace come and let this world pass away. Hosannah to the God of David. If any man be holy, let him come! if any man be not, let him repent: Maranatha ("Our Lord! Come!"), Amen."
7. But suffer the prophets to hold Eucharist as they will.
XI
1. Whosoever then comes and teaches you all these things aforesaid, receive him.
2. But if the teacher himself be perverted and teach another doctrine to destroy these things, do not listen to him, but if his teaching be for the increase of righteousness and knowledge of the Lord, receive him as the Lord.
3. And concerning the Apostles and Prophets, act thus according to the ordinance of the Gospel.
4. Let every Apostle who comes to you be received as the Lord,
5. But let him not stay more than one day, or if need be a second as well; but if he stay three days, he is a false prophet.
6. And when an Apostle goes forth let him accept nothing but bread till he reach his night's lodging; but if he ask for money, he is a false prophet.
7. Do not test or examine any prophet who is speaking in a spirit, "for every sin shall be forgiven, but this sin shall not be forgiven."
8. But not everyone who speaks in a spirit is a prophet, except he have the behaviour of the Lord. From his behaviour, then, the false prophet and the true prophet shall be known.
9. And no prophet who orders a meal in a spirit shall eat of it: otherwise he is a false prophet.
10. And every prophet who teaches truth, if he do not what he teaches, is a false prophet.
11. But no prophet who has been tried and is genuine, though he enact a worldly mystery of the Church, if he teach not others to do what he does himself, shall be judged by you: for he has his judgment with God, for so also did the prophets of old.
12. But whosoever shall say in a spirit "Give me money, or something else," you shall not listen to him; but if he tell you to give on behalf of others in want, let none judge him.
XII
1. Let everyone who "comes in the Name of the Lord" be received; but when you have tested him you shall know him, for you shall have understanding of true and false.
2. If he who comes is a traveller, help him as much as you can, but he shall not remain with you more than two days, or, if need be, three.
3. And if he wishes to settle among you and has a craft, let him work for his bread.
4. But if he has no craft provide for him according to your understanding, so that no man shall live among you in idleness because he is a Christian.
5. But if he will not do so, he is making traffic of Christ; beware of such.
XIII
1. But every true prophet who wishes to settle among you is "worthy of his food."
2. Likewise a true teacher is himself worthy, like the workman, of his food.
3. Therefore thou shalt take the firstfruit of the produce of the winepress and of the threshingfloor and of oxen and sheep, and shalt give them as the firstfruits to the prophets, for they are your high priests.
4. But if you have not a prophet, give to the poor.
5. If thou makest bread, take the firstfruits, and give it according to the commandment.
6. Likewise when thou openest a jar of wine or oil, give the firstfruits to the prophets.
7. Of money also and clothes, and of all your possessions, take the firstfruits, as it seem best to you, and give according to the commandment.
XIV
1. On the Lord's Day of the Lord come together, break bread and hold Eucharist, after confessing your transgressions that your offering may be pure;
2. But let none who has a quarrel with his fellow join in your meeting until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice be not defiled.
3. For this is that which was spoken by the Lord, "In every place and time offer me a pure sacrifice, for I am a great king," saith the Lord, "and my name is wonderful among the heathen."
XV
1. Appoint therefore for yourselves bishops and deacons worthy of the Lord, meek men, and not lovers of money, and truthful and approved, for they also minister to you the ministry of the prophets and teachers.
2. Therefore do not despise them, for they are your honourable men together with the prophets and teachers.
3. And reprove one another not in wrath but in peace as you find in the Gospel, and let none speak with any who has done wrong to his neighbour, nor let him hear a word from you until he repents.
4. But your prayers and alms and all your acts perform as ye find in the Gospel of our Lord.
XVI
1. "Watch" over your life "let your lamps" be not quenched "and your loins" be not ungirded, but be "ready," for ye know not "the hour in which our Lord cometh."
2. But be frequently gathered together seeking the things which are profitable for your souls, for the whole time of your faith shall not profit you except ye be found perfect at the last time;
3. For in the last days the false prophets and the corruptors shall be multiplied, and the sheep shall be turned into wolves, and love shall change to hate;
4. For as lawlessness increaseth they shall hate one another and persecute and betray, and then shall appear the deceiver of the world as a Son of God, and shall do signs and wonders and the earth shall be given over into his hands and he shall commit iniquities which have never been since the world began.
5. Then shall the creation of mankind come to the fiery trial and "many shall be offended" and be lost, but "they who endure" in their faith "shall be saved" by the curse itself.
6. And "then shall appear the signs" of the truth. First the sign spread out in Heaven, then the sign of the sound of the trumpet, and thirdly the resurrection of the dead:
7. But not of all the dead, but as it was said, "The Lord shall come and all his saints with him."
8. Then shall the world "see the Lord coming on the clouds of Heaven."

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

A thought came to mind and I'm not trying to be snooty but if this comes from a document written in the first century, why is it written in Elizabethan English?

 

[Nathan]

As they say, "it's all downhill from here"

 

[Willie T]

Thought you might like to see it a little closer to contemporary English.......... (This is still just part of it.)

Now about the thanksgiving, give thanks this way:
First, about the cup: "We thank you, our Father, for the holy vine of your boy David which you made known to us through your boy Jesus. Glory be to you for the age.

Now about the broken loaf: "We thank you, our Father, for the life and the knowledge that you made known to us through your boy Jesus. Glory be to you for the age. Just as this broken loaf was scattered on top of the hills and as it was gathered together and became one, in the same way let your assembly be gathered together from the remotest parts of the land into your kingdom. "For yours is the glory and the power through Anointed Jesus for the age." Now no one should either eat or drink from your thanksgiving meal, but those who have been baptized into the Lord's name. For about this also the Lord said, "Do not give what is holy to the dogs."

Now after you have been filled, give thanks this way: "We thank you, holy Father, for your holy name, which you made to live in our hearts, and for the knowledge and trust and immortality which you made known to us through Jesus your boy. Glory be to you for the age.

"Almighty master, it was you who created all for the sake of your name. You gave both food and drink to people for enjoyment, so that they might give thanks to you. But to us you have freely given spiritual food and drink and eternal life through your boy. Before all things, we are thankful to you that you are powerful. Glory be to you for the age.

"O Lord, remember your assembly, remember to rescue it from every evil and to make it complete in your love, and to gather it from the four winds into your kingdom which youprepared for it--it, which has been made holy. For yours is the power and the glory for the age.

"Let generosity come, and let this universe pass away. Hosanna to David's son! If someone is holy, let him come. If someone is not, he should change his mind. Marana-tha. A-mein." Now permit the prophets to give thanks as much as they want.

FOUR
Therefore, the one who comes and teaches you all of these things which have been previously spoken, accept him. But if he, the teacher, should turn to teach another teaching, so as to release this one, do not listen to him. But if he teaches to promote what is right and knowledge of the Lord, accept him as you would the Lord.

Now about the envoys and prophets, do just as according to the tenet of the good message. Now each envoy who comes to you, accept as you would the Lord. But he will not remain for one day. Now if there is need, also the next day. But if he remains for three, he is a false prophet.

Now when the envoy departs, he should take nothing except bread until he lodges. But if he should ask for money, he is a false prophet.

And every prophet who speaks with the spirit, you will not test or judge, for every sin will be forgiven. But not everyone who speaks with the spirit is a prophet: but if he has the conduct of the Lord. Therefore, from their conduct, the false prophet and the prophet will be made known. And no prophet with the spirit who orders a meal eats from it, unless indeed he is a false prophet. Now every prophet who teaches the truth, if he does not do as he teaches, is a false prophet. But every prophet who has been proved, who is true, who does things for the kosmic secrets of the assembly but who does not teach to do as he does, will not be judged among you. For the ancient prophets did it this way also. But whoever says with the spirit, "Give me money (or something else)," you will not listen to him. But if he says to give on behalf of others who are in need, no one should judge him.

Now everyone who comes in the Lord's name should be accepted. But afterward, you will examine him to know him. For you will have understanding, right and left. If the one who comes is a traveller, help him as much as you are able. But he will not remain with you except for two or three days, if there is a necessity. But if he wants to dwell with you, since he is a craftsman, he should work to eat. But if he has no craft, provide according to your understanding, so that no lazy person would be lifing among you as an "Anointed". But if he does not want to do this, he is one who profits financially from the Anointed One. Be careful about such people.

Now every true prophet who wants to settle near you is worthy of his wage. In the same way, a true teacher is also worthy, just as the workman, of his wage. Therefore, every foremost part of the products of the press and threshing floor, both of oxen and of sheep, you will take and give to the prophets. For they are your high priests.

But if you do not have a prophet, give these to the poor. If you make baked bread, take the foremost part and give according to the precept. In the same way, when you open a jar of wine or of oil, take the foremost part and give to the prophets. Now of money and clothing and every possession, take the foremost part as you think it right and give according to the precept.

FIVE
Now according to the Lord's day, gather together and break bread and give thanks, after acknowledging your wanderings to one another, so your sacrifice would be a clean one.
But each one who has something against his friend, do not let him come together with you until they are reconciled, so that your sacrifice would not be made common. For this is what was declared by the Lord: " In every place and time, carry to me a clean sacrifice. Because I am a great king," says Yahweh, " and my name is a wondrous thing among the nations."

SIX
Now hand pick for yourselves overseers and servants worthy of the Lord: men who are meek, not lovers of money, true and proved. For they are giving religious service to you also, as the prophets and teachers are giving religious service.

SEVEN
Now reprove one another, not in anger but in peace, as you have it in the good message. And no one should speak to each one who misses the mark against another one, nor should he hear from you, until he changes his mind. But your vows and your charitable works and all your practices, do these, as you have it in the good message of our Lord.

Be vigilant on behalf of your life. Do not let your lamps be extinguished, and do not relax your loins. But become prepared. For you do not know the hour in which our Lord is coming. Now you will gather together often, seeking the things that are appropriate for your souls. For all the time of your trust will not profit you, if you do not become complete in the last season.

For in the last days, the false prophets and the corruptors will be multiplied, and the sheep will be turned into wolves, and love will be turned into hate. For when the lawlessness increases, they will hate one another, and they will persecute and deliver up, and then the deceiver of creation will appear as God's son, and he will do signs and wonders. And the land will be given up into his hands. And he will do lawless things which have never been done from the age.

Then human creation will come into the fire of examination, and many will stumble and be destroyed. But those who endure in their trust will be saved from this accursed thing. And then the signs of truth will appear. First, the sign of an opening in Heaven, then the sign of a trumpet's sound, and thirdly, a resurrection of dead people. But not of all people; on the contrary, as it was declared, "The Lord will come, and all the holy ones with him." Then creation will see the Lord "coming on the clouds of the sky."

 

[GodsGrace]

A thought came to mind and I'm not trying to be snooty but if this comes from a document written in the first century, why is it written in Elizabethan English?

It comes in different versions WIP.
Just like the bible.
I just picked the first one that came up on google.

 

[GodsGrace]

WIP

I went back to wikipedia and found this which might interest you:
This is a very valuable document since it portrays what the earliest church believed:

Date, composition and modern translations[edit]

The title of the Didache in the manuscript discovered in 1873
Many English and American scholars once dated the text to the late 2nd century CE,[3] a view still held today,[13] but most scholars now assign the Didache to the first century.[14][15] The document is a composite work, and the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls with its Manual of Discipline provided evidence of development over a considerable period of time, beginning as a Jewish catechetical work which was then developed into a church manual.[16] Additionally, apart from two minuscule fragments, the Greek text of the Didache has only survived in a single manuscript, the Codex Hierosolymitanus. Dating the document is thus made difficult both by the lack of hard evidence and its composite character. The Didache may have been compiled in its present form as late as 150, although a date closer to the end of the first century seems more probable to many.[17] It is an anonymous work, a pastoral manual that Aaron Milavec states "reveals more about how Jewish-Christians saw themselves and how they adapted their Judaism for gentiles than any other book in the Christian Scriptures."[4] The Two Ways section is likely based on an earlier Jewish source.[3] The community that produced the Didache was probably based in Syria.[3][18]

The text was lost, but scholars knew of it through the writing of later church fathers, some of whom had drawn heavily on it.[19] In 1873 in Istanbul, metropolitan Philotheos Bryennios found a Greek copy of the Didache, written in 1056, and he published it in 1883.[19] Hitchcock and Brown produced the first English translation in March 1884. Adolf von Harnack produced the first German translation in 1884, and Paul Sabatier produced the first French translation and commentary in 1885.[20]

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Actually, I HAVE attended far too many churches that believe this way.

If you or anybody else feels the need to abandon a church that is 'owned' by the pastor, then one of two things is true: Either the person who's leaving doesn't have a right heart, in which case they should leave, or the pastor's heart is not right, in which case they should also leave.

The congregant who doesn't have a right heart, and is actually a detriment to the church, will not stay in a church that he knows he does not own and, therefore, he won't hang around to try to manipulate and 'own' it. Also, in the church where the pastor owns the church, the pastor who's heart is not right will be shown to be such when the congregation leaves, the pastor's success or failure being the barometer of whether he had really been appointed by God, or not. (edit: or whether he had been faithfully following the Lord, or not).

See, in a church owned ministry/church everybody hangs around vying for control and you can't tell who's actually in God's will and who is not. The church who tells the pastor what to do and say is like a family where the children run the household.

 

[ezra]

If you or anybody else feels the need to abandon a church that is 'owned' by the pastor, then one of two things is true: Either the person who's leaving doesn't have a right heart, in which case they should leave, or the pastor's heart is not right, in which case they should also leave.

The congregant who doesn't have a right heart, and is actually a detriment to the church, will not stay in a church that he knows he does not own and, therefore, he won't hang around to try to manipulate and 'own' it. Also, in a church where the pastor owns the church, the pastor who's heart is not right will shown to be such when the congregation leaves, the pastor's success or failure being the barometer of whether he had really been appointed by God, or not.

See, in a church owned ministry/church everybody hangs around vying for control and you can't tell who's actually in God's will and who is not. The church who tells the pastor what to do and say is like a family where the children run the household.

( The church who tells the pastor what to do and say) been there i was told the Church controlled me more or less told me what to do like my supervisor at work.... i told them they do not control me..no True Pastor will control the Church. . i believe in the Church having the vote . they should follow the pastor provided he is following the Holy Spirit

 

[Willie T]

If you or anybody else feels the need to abandon a church that is 'owned' by the pastor, then one of two things is true: Either the person who's leaving doesn't have a right heart, in which case they should leave, or the pastor's heart is not right, in which case they should also leave.

The congregant who doesn't have a right heart, and is actually a detriment to the church, will not stay in a church that he knows he does not own and, therefore, he won't hang around to try to manipulate and 'own' it. Also, in a church where the pastor owns the church, the pastor who's heart is not right will shown to be such when the congregation leaves, the pastor's success or failure being the barometer of whether he had really been appointed by God, or not.

See, in a church owned ministry/church everybody hangs around vying for control and you can't tell who's actually in God's will and who is not. The church who tells the pastor what to do and say is like a family where the children run the household.

Boy, that's some scary thinking. It's even worse than any church I ever attended. The Preacher is supposed to own and dictate what goes on in the church ????

 

[dirtfarmer]

( The church who tells the pastor what to do and say) been there i was told the Church controlled me more or less told me what to do like my supervisor at work.... i told them they do not control me..no True Pastor will control the Church. . i believe in the Church having the vote . they should follow the pastor provided he is following the Holy Spirit

hello ezra, dirtfarmer here

If a congregation has prayed and is led by the Spirit, they will "pick, hire" call the proper spiritual leader. You are correct, the congregants are not in control nor the supervisor of it's pastor. The pastor is to lead and teach the congregants all the while praying for them individually that they will grow in grace and knowledge.

The pastor will be held accountable for his teaching

 

[civilwarbuff]

( The church who tells the pastor what to do and say) been there i was told the Church controlled me more or less told me what to do like my supervisor at work.... i told them they do not control me..no True Pastor will control the Church. . i believe in the Church having the vote . they should follow the pastor provided he is following the Holy Spirit

It is a delicate dance.....I have been on the opposite side where a pastor's actions have sunk a church and the people left in droves.....and were glad of it.......

 

[ezra]

It is a delicate dance.....I have been on the opposite side where a pastor's actions have sunk a church and the people left in droves.....and were glad of it.......

i have seen church splits and known pastors who come close to ruling with a iron fist. . i have also had churches growing and flesh takes over the Church and i was there no more.one call i got said after i inquired as i it was any of my actions? reply no they are looking for some one more laid back . i have seen and experienced many of the things listed.. everybody should try to lead as a pastor

 

[ezra]

The pastor will be held accountable for his teaching

yes so will any teacher and we all will be held accountable for our actions..some of these post are so far out in left field . i worry they my not return to home plate

 

[dirtfarmer]

yes so will any teacher and we all will be held accountable for our actions..some of these post are so far out in left field . i worry they my not return to home plate

hello ezra, dirtfarmer here

I don't even think they know where home plate is.

I have known of "deacon boards" that called meeting with the pastor to instruct him on what to preach, what to avoid, how long the sermon should be and when to have "singings" to bolster church attendance. Most churches today are divided into several social clubs. One group talks about football, one about auto racing, and group about business opportunities, and if you don't belong to their club you had better not try talking to them after service.

 

[Douglas Summers]

To those of you who lead "Sunday School" or "small groups" (I'm sure there are other names for it also) - I have had something that has been an idea for a while. I have not tried it personally, but thought I would throw it out there in case someone was looking for something.

One thing I have noticed in these settings is that everyone looks to the 'leader' for all the instruction. Much like they do the pastor. I would hope that a leader of these meetings would be capable, but that does not mean the other people in the group don't have anything to contribute. I think in small groups like these it nice to get everyone involved. But most of the time they feel 'unable' to do it, which is mostly because the leader is going a certain direction. Much like a 'teacher' would.

So my thought was to have a box. And everyone would put down on a piece of paper a question, or something to that effect, they have come across when reading the Bible. It could be anything. Why did so and so say this? What did Jesus mean when He said this? What exactly is this that they are talking about? It could even be as simple as "is the Red Sea really red"?

Then a piece of paper would be pulled out, and everyone would see what it was, and spend the week looking into what they can find out about the topic. I think the leader in this regard would be more like a moderator, because it would not work if they did all the leg work. The topic might come to a conclusion in a short amount of time, or it may drag on. I think that would be the nice thing about it.

People tend to get in a rut. Comfortable. It might take a while for it to catch on, but if the members of the group started to really feel that their input mattered(not just a second rate comment to the leaders topic), then eventually I think it would pick up. Most of all, it would drive people to start actually looking into the Bible rather than just looking at what they are told too.

Anyways, that's the idea I thought of/was given to me. I usually just blow these off(I am always thinking of something), but this one has stuck around for a while.

Most of the local Baptist Sunday schools contribute questions or insight in the classroom with the teachers. When a class is large, this is not practiced. Here is what Scripture says about that: (1 Cor. 14:29-33)