[__ Science __ ] Sweden Shuts Historic Churches for Winter to Meet Climate Goals

[hawkman]

I wonder if the Night Clubs in Sweden will close down for the winter ?

Sweden Shuts Historic Churches for Winter to Meet Climate Goals

 

[WIP]

People don't have to meet in a separate building. They can get together in smaller groups at various homes that are heated already.

 

[hawkman]

People don't have to meet in a separate building.

Separate from what ?

They can get together in smaller groups at various homes that are heated already.

But will they is the question .
That will present it's own set of logistics too . Such as , is there enough parking (don't want to get stuck in a yard ) , is it handicap accessible , bathroom included (church should be ) , are the instruments of musical worship there ( piano , organ ,hymn books etc .) , feel uncomfortable meeting in John Doe's house and imposing on them , I am sure I left some out .
Point is things are already in order with minimal prep at the church for service .

 

[Milk-Drops]

Separate from what ?

But will they is the question .
That will present it's own set of logistics too . Such as , is there enough parking (don't want to get stuck in a yard ) , is it handicap accessible , bathroom included (church should be ) , are the instruments of musical worship there ( piano , organ ,hymn books etc .) , feel uncomfortable meeting in John Doe's house and imposing on them , I am sure I left some out .
Point is things are already in order with minimal prep at the church for service .

Why not attend the 3493 other church if sweden build8ngs still open?

 

[WIP]

Separate from what ?

A church building that is closed anyway.

But will they is the question .
That will present it's own set of logistics too . Such as , is there enough parking (don't want to get stuck in a yard ) , is it handicap accessible , bathroom included (church should be ) , are the instruments of musical worship there ( piano , organ ,hymn books etc .) , feel uncomfortable meeting in John Doe's house and imposing on them , I am sure I left some out .
Point is things are already in order with minimal prep at the church for service .

Sounds like some excuses to me. A church worship service doesn't have to be some kind of production. It is a time of fellowship and worship of our Creator God.

In our country Lutheran church a number of years ago, our church decided to start a men's Bible study group that would meet once a month and we would do it in someone's home. Each month someone else volunteered to open their home for the meeting. There were about 15-20 men that attended these meetings. If there was someone that needed special help such as a wheelchair, we would just help them. Word got around and it didn't take long for men to come from all over the area and representing many various denominations including Lutheran, Baptist, Catholic, Presbyterian, Mennonite, and Amish. There may have been others, but I don't recall. We did this for quite a few years until the pandemic in 2020.

Since about 1995 I have been involved with a men's Bible chorus. Two of the three fellows that started the group, one of them being our director, as well as others have since passed and for the past five years or so, we don't meet regularly but we still get requests to sing from time-to-time for special occasions. When we were doing this regularly, we would meet once a month at our director's home. Fortunately, his wife is a wonderful pianist, and she would provide the accompaniment for us. At our peak there were around 35 members.

My point is, if there's a will, there's a way.

 

[jasonc]

A church building that is closed anyway.


Sounds like some excuses to me. A church worship service doesn't have to be some kind of production. It is a time of fellowship and worship of our Creator God.

In our country Lutheran church a number of years ago, our church decided to start a men's Bible study group that would meet once a month and we would do it in someone's home. Each month someone else volunteered to open their home for the meeting. There were about 15-20 men that attended these meetings. If there was someone that needed special help such as a wheelchair, we would just help them. Word got around and it didn't take long for men to come from all over the area and representing many various denominations including Lutheran, Baptist, Catholic, Presbyterian, Mennonite, and Amish. There may have been others, but I don't recall. We did this for quite a few years until the pandemic in 2020.

Since about 1995 I have been involved with a men's Bible chorus. Two of the three fellows that started the group, one of them being our director, as well as others have since passed and for the past five years or so, we don't meet regularly but we still get requests to sing from time-to-time for special occasions. When we were doing this regularly, we would meet once a month at our director's home. Fortunately, his wife is a wonderful pianist, and she would provide the accompaniment for us. At our peak there were around 35 members.

My point is, if there's a will, there's a way.

I get your point but corporate worship requires a worship team an minister to read the word .

My church simply wouldn't last doing that .we lost members during COVID .

They simply found a reason not to attend any church . My church has four that can teach .pastor and the two elders and one other who the session agreed to as he has lead a Bible study .we do have a retired pastor but often because of his health isn't asked as much .


As far as worship ,well off key can be done but the session picks and grooms what is it to be sung .it must be solidly biblical . Much of modern music that is Christian radio isn't .

We have used hymns when the power went out .

The worship team used the piano which never needs a microphone and the acoustic guitar was used .

I just can't see fifty people meeting in a single home here without violation of a code unless it's the homes like the bar code house .

Or outside but well in that element it wouldn't happen .

 

[jasonc]

I wonder if the Night Clubs in Sweden will close down for the winter ?

Sweden Shuts Historic Churches for Winter to Meet Climate Goals

Of course not ! They need that tax revenue

Taxes from that alcohol ,nicotine and also permits for concerts plus that and the hotel taxes etc .


To put this in context .

A concert even a baseball game at night ,two of them at times can use slot of power .demand kwh at about five grand .that's a few games a week !

The local AMC on the mall route paid 50000 dollars for power at the most ,average was 230000.

One demand meter of 240 !

 

[jasonc]

Of course not ! They need that tax revenue

Taxes from that alcohol ,nicotine and also permits for concerts plus that and the hotel taxes etc .


To put this in context .

A concert even a baseball game at night ,two of them at times can use slot of power .demand kwh at about five grand .that's a few games a week !

The local AMC on the mall route paid 50000 dollars for power at the most ,average was 230000.

One demand meter of 240 !

But this wasn't a state shutdown

 

[jasonc]

The average house here .doesn't use over 1000 kwh even in the summer .

There are homes on the old grid that had demand usage and used 10000 kwh .

The govt will ration you to about nothing then cry for money as they just cut their own hands .

There was that California grid that asked people to use more water because they simply were struggling .

They use tier billing .the more you use the more the rate per thousand gallons goes up.

 

[WIP]

My church simply wouldn't last doing that .we lost members during COVID .

We lost a few that way too, but there's very little we can do about that. We just hope they found another church and didn't just stop altogether.

 

[Barbarian]

But this wasn't a state shutdown

The problem isn't that they are closing churches that people fill every Sunday. Church attendance isn't very strong in Sweden, and the church just can't afford to keep heating those huge spaces for a few people. This isn't a state directive; it was a decision of the church. And lots of other churches are open.

Someone's looking to stir the pot here.

 

[hawkman]

The problem isn't that they are closing churches that people fill every Sunday. Church attendance isn't very strong in Sweden, and the church just can't afford to keep heating those huge spaces for a few people. This isn't a state directive; it was a decision of the church. And lots of other churches are open.

Someone's looking to stir the pot here.

Yeah some stir it seems , media has to get the article clicks but the bottom line in the article is true .

"This decision by the Church of Sweden illustrates how progressive ideologies, including climate activism, continue to influence institutions once solely focused on spiritual leadership."

 

[Barbarian]

Yeah some stir it seems , media has to get the article clicks but the bottom line in the article is true .

"This decision by the Church of Sweden illustrates how progressive ideologies, including climate activism, continue to influence institutions once solely focused on spiritual leadership."

So far, the effects of climate change have disproportionately affected the poorest of us. Which would make it a concern of Jesus.

 

[Christ_empowered]

Secularization seems to be the issue. I think Weber called it disenchantment of the world ?. At any rate…

Here in the USA the Protestants at least have failed to take hold of poverty climate catastrophes and the crises of modern capitalist societies as Christian issues….

And the church ️ is more powerful here than in Sweden. Maybe ? it’s not entirely the church’s fault? I think media frame things through a secular framework…

 

[Barbarian]

Sweden no longer has an official church, but it lasted long enough to severely damage faith there. If you want to see what happens when public schools post the Ten Commandments and have official prayers, look at Sweden.

 

[KV-44-v1]

So far, the effects of climate change have disproportionately affected the poorest of us. Which would make it a concern of Jesus.

Yes, the climate affects people, and it changes often. It's been changing for ~6k or ~5b years, depending on which of the 2 most common (at least in the U.S./the West) age ranges of Earth you accept. 7777
i.imgur.com/LJ1KXNv.png
answersingenesis.org/environmental-science/snow-secret-garden/

 

[Barbarian]

Yes, the climate affects people, and it changes often.

It's just that in the last few hundred years, it's changed more rapidly than any time in human history. At the dawn of history, humans could change local climate by various means. Now we have the technology to change it on a global level. And that's starting to have serious economic effects. Not all places will be losers; sub-Saharan Africa will get wetter and greener. Canada will see more of it's territory open up to agriculture. The United States is going to be one of the losers, as it becomes impossible to get insurance on the Gulf Coast, and the high plains will become drier and less livable.

 

[WIP]

It's just that in the last few hundred years, it's changed more rapidly than any time in human history. At the dawn of history, humans could change local climate by various means. Now we have the technology to change it on a global level. And that's starting to have serious economic effects. Not all places will be losers; sub-Saharan Africa will get wetter and greener. Canada will see more of it's territory open up to agriculture. The United States is going to be one of the losers, as it becomes impossible to get insurance on the Gulf Coast, and the high plains will become drier and less livable.

The warming of earth itself may not be all that bad. The problem is that it will affect peoples' lives because of where we live and what we do for our lifestyles. Ocean coastlines will be moved farther inland so any dwellings or structures at the current location will have to be moved or will be destroyed. Some areas will become drier and others wetter and this too will affect our livelihoods.

It's like the fires out west here in the US. Historically, fires have been a relatively common occurrence. The reason they are so devastating today is because now people live there and end up in harm's way.

The question I keep asking is, is there really anything we can do about it right now? If the science community is correct and CO2 is the primary culprit even though it only makes up about 0.04% of the total atmosphere, the only way we can stop the introduction of CO2 into the atmosphere by our lifestyles is to stop using any form of fossil or biological fuels including oil, gas, LP gas, wood, coal, etc. and that means stop using those sources to develop other types of fuel supplies such as wind, water, solar, etc. plus rethinking just about everything we do, what materials we use to do it, and the processes we use to create them.

So, assuming that is possible, that would stop any additional CO2 that we are responsible for by our lifestyles from entering our atmosphere, but would that reverse what has been done or only stop it from progressing further?

Even after finding an alternative, CO2 would still be entering the atmosphere because every living creature of the animal kingdom that breathes exhales CO2 and every living thing that exists releases CO2 when they die. Since our human population continues to grow, this too means we would still continue to add CO2 to the atmosphere just by our very existence.

 

[Barbarian]

It's a matter of finding ways out of generating all that carbon where we don't have to do it. In the United States, about 93% of anthropogenic CO2 emissions comes from burning fossil fuels. So that's the place to start.

 

[WIP]

It's a matter of finding ways out of generating all that carbon where we don't have to do it. In the United States, about 93% of anthropogenic CO2 emissions comes from burning fossil fuels. So that's the place to start.

The problem as I see it is that the current narrative is all about automobiles, but there's much more than that. We also cook our food, heat our homes, run our well pumps, fly airplanes and jets, defend our countries, manufacture everything we need or want and most of it is done using fossil fuels.