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Synopsis: My Christian Beliefs

  • Thread starter Thread starter Vanguard
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Vanguard

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I'd like to take a moment to explain why I think/feel the way that I do. If you notice over my posts, I am an advocate for free will, human error, breaking down verses within their context, etc. I may seem brash or anti-Christian at times, but I am not. I enjoy semantics, philosophy and ancient history. When talking about any particular culture, especially an ancient one, you have to look at the political situation as well as the religious, financial, and what wars/conflicts were going on at the time.

Compound the above with the fact that I am a police officer, as a CSI with the crime scene unit in a major city in the southeast (USA), and you might start getting an idea as to why I take an "investigative" approach to my posts. I have seen more evil and ungodliness to last three lifetimes. It leaves you asking questions. Because of these things, and my love of history, theology, philosophy, linguistics, archaeology and astronomy, I have developed my own "free thinker" theories. It is not for everyone, but it does answer the tough questions that others can't (vague, cop-out answers aren't true answers).

1. Free Will: a gift to humans (not angels or demons) that allows us to make our own choices and governs the consequences thereof. Bad things happen not because God allowed it, but because someone chose to do something bad. It is a far better explanation as to why these things happen other than the vague answers of, "it's God's will, he works in mysterious ways," etc.

2. The Bible does indeed contain errors. The Bible was written by human beings, not God (he did not sit at a desk and physically write). Yes those people claimed divine inspiration when writing the "Word of God," but you have to wonder if they were sincere or if they did it so no one would try and refute it (this dives into psychology and philosophy). For most of those cases they were always alone when they were divinely inspired (how convenient, no witnesses). In any event, they got names, dates, places and circumstances wrong, and after careful cross referencing, modern day scholars work to revise and correct those errors. The important thing here is that the message of God and Jesus is unchanged. True Christianity does not rise and fall over some early "type-o's."

3. The Old Testament does not apply to Christians (except maybe Messianic Jews). The OT is the law and history of the Jewish people. Keep in mind that Orthodox Judaism does not believe that Jesus was the messiah as foretold by prophecy. They reject the claim as well as the NT. Christianity is governed by the NT, under the new covenant of Jesus. Churches and clergymen, who are Christian, that use the OT to dictate how we should live do so erroneously. No the Ten Commandments do not apply to Christians. You won't find that anywhere in the NT.

4. It is important to understand religious/biblical history. Most denominations/religions form because one sect within a church does not like or agree with what is going on. They break away under some unified "leader" and the split grows under a new name. Catholics (the first Christians) broke away from Judaism. Protestants broke away from the Roman Catholics. Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, non-denominationals, etc. broke away from their respective Protestant parent churches, so on and so forth.

The reasons for the splits are numerous but are not limited to envy, financial considerations, desire for power, different beliefs, animosity, and every other emotion human beings are subject to.

5. To understand scripture you must be willing to go beyond listening to a pastor/priest, reciting verses from memory, and going through the motions on Sunday. You need to look at history and how it affected the people at the time. Cultural beliefs will most definitely govern how a literary work is written.

You need to break verses down, compare them to every source text available that you can comprehend, and rationally decipher their nature and meaning. Don't blindly accept what a clergyman tells you...what if his interpretation is wrong? Think for yourself, do careful study and research, and think outside of the box. Nothing is ever completely clear, black and white, this or that. If something is not validated and supported by a viable source, it should throw up a cautionary red flag. Never assume anything.

Every story has 3 versions (my side, your side, the truth in the middle), and every coin has a flip side. Be open minded.



This is the gist of why I am the way I am. I often play the devil's advocate in debates and discussions because so many don't like to think outside of mainstream religious views. I feel that looking at the bigger picture and considering alternatives is just as important for spiritual growth.

:readbible
 
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I'm very much like you in the approach and, slightly scarily, whilst I'm not a police office I work for a digital forensics software company and we supply a lot of police forces all round the world. So I completely get the investigative approach :)
 
2. The Bible does indeed contain errors. The Bible was written by human beings, not God (he did not sit at a desk and physically write). Yes those people claimed divine inspiration when writing the "Word of God," but you have to wonder if they were sincere or if they did it so no one would try and refute it (this dives into psychology and philosophy). For most of those cases they were always alone when they were divinely inspired (how convenient, no witnesses). In any event, they got names, dates, places and circumstances wrong, and after careful cross referencing, modern day scholars work to revise and correct those errors. The important thing here is that the message of God and Jesus is unchanged. True Christianity does not rise and fall over some early "type-o's."

God's word tells us it's God breathed. No person who penned scripture claimed to be divinely inspired. Inspiration speaks to the the "words" of scripture. Because God inspired the words of scripture we can trust them.

5. To understand scripture you must be willing to go beyond listening to a pastor/priest, reciting verses from memory, and going through the motions on Sunday. You need to look at history and how it affected the people at the time. Cultural beliefs will most definitely govern how a literary work is written.

You need to break verses down, compare them to every source text available that you can comprehend, and rationally decipher their nature and meaning. Don't blindly accept what a clergyman tells you...what if his interpretation is wrong? Think for yourself, do careful study and research, and think outside of the box. Nothing is ever completely clear, black and white, this or that. If something is not validated and supported by a viable source, it should throw up a cautionary red flag. Never assume anything.

All you need is a heart to hear God and the Holy Scripture. Scripture is to interpet scripture. The Holy Spirit will guide the person with a sincere heart.

We have what we all in Christanity "essential doctrines". They are VERY CLEAR in scripture. It is very black and white.

Memorization of scripture is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT.....when Jesus was in the wilderness Satan tempted him....Jesus responded by saying scripture. That's how we can quickly spot false teachers/doctrine.

3. The Old Testament does not apply to Christians (except maybe Messianic Jews). The OT is the law and history of the Jewish people. Keep in mind that Orthodox Judaism does not believe that Jesus was the messiah as foretold by prophecy. They reject the claim as well as the NT. Christianity is governed by the NT, under the new covenant of Jesus. Churches and clergymen, who are Christian, that use the OT to dictate how we should live do so erroneously. No the Ten Commandments do not apply to Christians. You won't find that anywhere in the NT.

2 Timothy 3

3 But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.

6 They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over gullible women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires, 7 always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth. 8 Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so also these teachers oppose the truth. They are men of depraved minds, who, as far as the faith is concerned, are rejected. 9 But they will not get very far because, as in the case of those men, their folly will be clear to everyone.


13 while evildoers and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. 14 But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it, 15 and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God[a] may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.



1. Free Will: a gift to humans (not angels or demons) that allows us
to make our own choices and governs the consequences thereof. Bad things happen
not because God allowed it, but because someone chose to do something bad. It is
a far better explanation as to why these things happen other than the vague
answers of, "it's God's will, he works in mysterious ways," etc.

Bad things happen because we live in a fallen world. Yes God allows Bad things to happen. Not all bad things that occur are the result of our actions/choice. (free will)

That is not my opinion it's what scripture plainly teaches us. In other words, it's God's explanation.
 
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P31

But knowing and understanding are 2 different things though. It wasnt that Jesus knew the scriptures, he understood them.

Sent from my HTC Desire S using Tapatalk 2
 
P31

But knowing and understanding are 2 different things though. It wasnt that Jesus knew the scriptures, he understood them.

Sent from my HTC Desire S using Tapatalk 2

Agree!

Matthew 22:29 Jesus replied, "You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God.

He memorized them just like any human would have to. He also knew them so well that when Satan came back at him with scripture he KNEW it was taken out of context.

"IF" someone is a Chrisitan and puts their heart and mind to knowing God's word God WILL help them understand. He wants them to know the truth.

Illumination
 
Agree!

Matthew 22:29 Jesus replied, "You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God.

He memorized them just like any human would have to. He also knew them so well that when Satan came back at him with scripture he KNEW it was taken out of context.

"IF" someone is a Chrisitan and puts their heart and mind to knowing God's word God WILL help them understand. He wants them to know the truth.

Illumination

Absolutely he will. I guess what annoys me though is when Christian A says "keep praying and God will reveal the truth" to Christian B whom they disagree with, it doesnt occur to Christian A that B might be right and its them that needs the truth revealing to them.

Sent from my HTC Desire S using Tapatalk 2
 
Vanguard, could you expound on #2.

Do you believe that the original texts written by the original authors of the NT were, without doubt, inspired by God?
 
I'd like to take a moment to explain why I think/feel the way that I do. If you notice over my posts, I am an advocate for free will, human error, breaking down verses within their context, etc. I may seem brash or anti-Christian at times, but I am not. I enjoy semantics, philosophy and ancient history. When talking about any particular culture, especially an ancient one, you have to look at the political situation as well as the religious, financial, and what wars/conflicts were going on at the time.

Compound the above with the fact that I am a police officer, as a CSI with the crime scene unit in a major city in the southeast (USA), and you might start getting an idea as to why I take an "investigative" approach to my posts. I have seen more evil and ungodliness to last three lifetimes. It leaves you asking questions. Because of these things, and my love of history, theology, philosophy, linguistics, archaeology and astronomy, I have developed my own "free thinker" theories. It is not for everyone, but it does answer the tough questions that others can't (vague, cop-out answers aren't true answers).

1. Free Will: a gift to humans (not angels or demons) that allows us to make our own choices and governs the consequences thereof. Bad things happen not because God allowed it, but because someone chose to do something bad. It is a far better explanation as to why these things happen other than the vague answers of, "it's God's will, he works in mysterious ways," etc.

2. The Bible does indeed contain errors. The Bible was written by human beings, not God (he did not sit at a desk and physically write). Yes those people claimed divine inspiration when writing the "Word of God," but you have to wonder if they were sincere or if they did it so no one would try and refute it (this dives into psychology and philosophy). For most of those cases they were always alone when they were divinely inspired (how convenient, no witnesses). In any event, they got names, dates, places and circumstances wrong, and after careful cross referencing, modern day scholars work to revise and correct those errors. The important thing here is that the message of God and Jesus is unchanged. True Christianity does not rise and fall over some early "type-o's."

3. The Old Testament does not apply to Christians (except maybe Messianic Jews). The OT is the law and history of the Jewish people. Keep in mind that Orthodox Judaism does not believe that Jesus was the messiah as foretold by prophecy. They reject the claim as well as the NT. Christianity is governed by the NT, under the new covenant of Jesus. Churches and clergymen, who are Christian, that use the OT to dictate how we should live do so erroneously. No the Ten Commandments do not apply to Christians. You won't find that anywhere in the NT.

4. It is important to understand religious/biblical history. Most denominations/religions form because one sect within a church does not like or agree with what is going on. They break away under some unified "leader" and the split grows under a new name. Catholics (the first Christians) broke away from Judaism. Protestants broke away from the Roman Catholics. Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, non-denominationals, etc. broke away from their respective Protestant parent churches, so on and so forth.

The reasons for the splits are numerous but are not limited to envy, financial considerations, desire for power, different beliefs, animosity, and every other emotion human beings are subject to.

5. To understand scripture you must be willing to go beyond listening to a pastor/priest, reciting verses from memory, and going through the motions on Sunday. You need to look at history and how it affected the people at the time. Cultural beliefs will most definitely govern how a literary work is written.

You need to break verses down, compare them to every source text available that you can comprehend, and rationally decipher their nature and meaning. Don't blindly accept what a clergyman tells you...what if his interpretation is wrong? Think for yourself, do careful study and research, and think outside of the box. Nothing is ever completely clear, black and white, this or that. If something is not validated and supported by a viable source, it should throw up a cautionary red flag. Never assume anything.

Every story has 3 versions (my side, your side, the truth in the middle), and every coin has a flip side. Be open minded.



This is the gist of why I am the way I am. I often play the devil's advocate in debates and discussions because so many don't like to think outside of mainstream religious views. I feel that looking at the bigger picture and considering alternatives is just as important for spiritual growth.

:readbible

Vangard, What you have described seems difficult, learned, & time consuming just to understand scripture. How would you say you are coming in your efforts as you have described here? Would you say you understand scripture completely, or partially at this point in your study, or close to closing the book on it? Would you say you are open minded even to what you hold true so far?
 
Vanguard, could you expound on #2.

Do you believe that the original texts written by the original authors of the NT were, without doubt, inspired by God?

He has told us about 5 times in the last few days that the men who wrote the bible claim to have been inspired. When I told him the bible was penned by men but God breathed he told me that was an "Opinionated assumption".
 
There is a vast difference between those who "claim to have been inspired" and those who WERE indeed inspired. Mormons "claim" their prophets and apostles are inspired.
 
What are some examples of Bible writers (Peter, Paul, John etc.etc.) getting names, places etc. wrong?
 
Vanguard, could you expound on #2.

Do you believe that the original texts written by the original authors of the NT were, without doubt, inspired by God?

I'd be happy to go into greater detail on that. Unfortunately you will have to wait until much later tonight or tomorrow, as I am off work today and spending time with my family. I've browsed other posts that have been brought up (mostly by P31 who enjoys stalking me on these forums, LOL) and will address those as well. Until then...
 
I'd be happy to go into greater detail on that. Unfortunately you will have to wait until much later tonight or tomorrow, as I am off work today and spending time with my family. I've browsed other posts that have been brought up (mostly by P31 who enjoys stalking me on these forums, LOL) and will address those as well. Until then...

Not stalking but reading many of your post. Still have not found the one that took me on this journey today. Maybe someone else can remember.

I believe it was you who said the Jews did not believe Jesus was the Messiah because he has not fufilled so many of the OT Prophecies.

Can you or anyone else remember that sort of post? I would like to read it in context.
 
Bad things happen because we live in a fallen world. Yes God allows Bad things to happen. Not all bad things that occur are the result of our actions/choice. (free will)

That is not my opinion it's what scripture plainly teaches us. In other words, it's God's explanation.

God allows Bad things to happen ? I wonder....

  1. Jeremiah 7:31
    They have built the high places of Topheth in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to burn their sons and daughters in the fire—something I did not command, nor did it enter my mind.
    Jeremiah 7:30-32 (in Context) Jeremiah 7 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
  2. Jeremiah 19:5They have built the high places of Baal to burn their children in the fire as offerings to Baal—something I did not command or mention, nor did it enter my mind.
    Jeremiah 19:4-6 (in Context) Jeremiah 19 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
  3. Jeremiah 32:35They built high places for Baal in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to sacrifice their sons and daughters to Molek, though I never commanded—nor did it enter my mind—that they should do such a detestable thing and so make Judah sin.
    Jeremiah 32:34-36 (in Context) Jeremiah 32 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
I copied from BibleGateway translation the NIV

Oh and I think this goes against the philosophy that Satan takes all his orders from God.
 
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God allows Bad things to happen ? I wonder....

  1. Jeremiah 7:31
    They have built the high places of Topheth in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to burn their sons and daughters in the fire—something I did not command, nor did it enter my mind.
    Jeremiah 7:30-32 (in Context) Jeremiah 7 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
  2. Jeremiah 19:5They have built the high places of Baal to burn their children in the fire as offerings to Baal—something I did not command or mention, nor did it enter my mind.
    Jeremiah 19:4-6 (in Context) Jeremiah 19 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
  3. Jeremiah 32:35They built high places for Baal in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to sacrifice their sons and daughters to Molek, though I never commanded—nor did it enter my mind—that they should do such a detestable thing and so make Judah sin.
    Jeremiah 32:34-36 (in Context) Jeremiah 32 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
I copied from BibleGateway translation the NIV

Oh and I think this goes against the philosophy that Satan takes all his orders from God.

Don't have a CLUE what you are talking about.

Are you trying to tell us that God Does Not allow bad things to happen?

Here is the comment I am responding to and now you have followd up.

Vanguard

1. Free Will: a gift to humans (not angels or demons) that allows us to make our
own choices and governs the consequences thereof. Bad things happen not because
God allowed it, but because someone chose to do something bad. It is a far
better explanation as to why these things happen other than the vague answers
of, "it's God's will, he works in mysterious ways," etc
.


Vanguard claimed the bad that comes our way is because of our free will choices. Guess what! A child who is molested at 1 month old did NOT cause that to happen. God did "allow" it to occur.

Explain Katrina?
 
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Don't have a CLUE what you are talking about.

Are you trying to tell us that God Does Not allow bad things to happen?

Here is the comment I am responding to and now you have followd up.

.


Vanguard claimed the bad that comes our way is because of our free will choices. Guess what! A child who is molested at 1 month old did NOT cause that to happen. God did "allow" it to occur.

Explain Katrina?

I was responding to what you said. God allows bad thing to happen.

In Jeremiah it appears that God is saying clearly, It never entered His mind what they would do to their children. To me this is saying He did know that they were going to do it and therefore He did not allow it.

I'm not fighting with anyone and I can tell you right now I will not engage in angry disputes over God's Word, I love it and Him too much to do that. But I will discuss, state my thoughts and have respect for others thoughts.

So what do you think God is saying in these scriptures? I don't expect you to agree with me. I trying to learn not argue.
 
I have a few minutes...son is taking a nap and wife is taking a bath. Let me review the post real quick, then I will reply...
 
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I was responding to what you said. God allows bad thing to happen.

In Jeremiah it appears that God is saying clearly, It never entered His mind what they would do to their children. To me this is saying He did know that they were going to do it and therefore He did not allow it.

I'm not fighting with anyone and I can tell you right now I will not engage in angry disputes over God's Word, I love it and Him too much to do that. But I will discuss, state my thoughts and have respect for others thoughts.

So what do you think God is saying in these scriptures? I don't expect you to agree with me. I trying to learn not argue.

In God's permissive will he allowed it to happen.

What those passages mean I don't have a clue right now. Been a long time since I've studied that book.

BTW, I am not angry.
 
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Deborah,

It just hit me. That could mean never was anything that would have been pleasing to Him.

Just a shot at it.
 
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