Synopsis: My Christian Beliefs

[Vanguard]

I said Jesus fufilled all the prophecies concerning the coming Messiah. Like it or not that "is" what happened.

:biglol :toofunny

You said Jesus fulfilled all the OT prophecies concerning the Messiah. I gave a list of 10 of them that He did not fulfill, and those (plus the other 13) is why Christianity said they will be fulfilled in the 2nd coming. Furthermore, I never wrote "BTW, there is no agrument there is only the Truth" yet you quote me as saying it.

Luke 3:23 Now Jesus himself was about thirty years old when he began his ministry. He was the son, so it was thought, of Joseph...

I thought He was the son of God. If He is Joseph's son, then Mary wasn't a virgin and the immaculate conception didn't happen. Learn to use the Bible in context.

Check. Mate.

Postscript: Jesus was the adopted son of Joseph, but He was God's son, and Mary was His blessed mother, prior to marriage.

 

[VirginShallConceive]

Your telling on yourself. Christanity is not something that has to "invent" things.

Secondly Jesus does not fail. Cannot happen! God cannot fail. I said Jesus fufilled all the prophecies concerning the coming Messiah. Like it or not that "is" what happened.

The Old Testament and New Testament is about God and His revelation to man.

Luke 3:23-31

New International Version (NIV)

23 Now Jesus himself was about thirty years old when he began his ministry. He was the son, so it was thought, of Joseph,
the son of Heli, 24 the son of Matthat,
the son of Levi, the son of Melki,
the son of Jannai, the son of Joseph,
25 the son of Mattathias, the son of Amos,
the son of Nahum, the son of Esli,
the son of Naggai, 26 the son of Maath,
the son of Mattathias, the son of Semein,
the son of Josek, the son of Joda,
27 the son of Joanan, the son of Rhesa,
the son of Zerubbabel, the son of Shealtiel,
the son of Neri, 28 the son of Melki,
the son of Addi, the son of Cosam,
the son of Elmadam, the son of Er,
29 the son of Joshua, the son of Eliezer,
the son of Jorim, the son of Matthat,
the son of Levi, 30 the son of Simeon,
the son of Judah, the son of Joseph,
the son of Jonam, the son of Eliakim,
31 the son of Melea, the son of Menna,
the son of Mattatha, the son of Nathan,
the son of David,

 

[Webb]

I read Willmington, pg. 258. How do you reconcile that with I Thess.4:13-18?

 

[P31Woman]

:biglol :toofunny

You said Jesus fulfilled all the OT prophecies concerning the Messiah. I gave a list of 10 of them that He did not fulfill, and those (plus the other 13) is why Christianity said they will be fulfilled in the 2nd coming. Furthermore, I never wrote "BTW, there is no agrument there is only the Truth" yet you quote me as saying it.



I thought He was the son of God. If He is Joseph's son, then Mary wasn't a virgin and the immaculate conception didn't happen. Learn to use the Bible in context.

Check. Mate.

Postscript: Jesus was the adopted son of Joseph, but He was God's son, and Mary was His blessed mother, prior to marriage.

I said "the Coming Messiah" and I stand by the FACT he fufilled all those prophecies!

Furthermore, I never wrote "BTW, there is no agrument there is only the Truth" yet you quote me as saying it.

My bad. I did place "my comment" inside your post. I stand by that truth.

 

[P31Woman]

I read Willmington, pg. 258. How do you reconcile that with I Thess.4:13-18?

Use the same link above. Scroll down to page 407-408

BTW, This is a great book to have on your bookshelf! I wore my first copy out and am about to wear out my second.

 

[Vanguard]

I said "the Coming Messiah" and I stand by the FACT he fufilled all those prophecies!

Post #33 and my quoting you in 35...you said all OT prophecies.

totopic

 

[P31Woman]

Originally Posted by P31Woman
I said Jesus fufilled all the prophecies concerning the coming Messiah. Like it or not that "is" what happened.

 

[Vanguard]

I said Jesus fufilled all the prophecies concerning the coming Messiah. Like it or not that "is" what happened.

Direct quote by you from post #33...

Unless someone proves to me otherwise I believe Jesus fulfilled all the OT prophecies concerning the promised Messiah.

totopic

 

[reba]

Your telling on yourself. Christanity is not something that has to "invent" things.

Secondly Jesus does not fail. Cannot happen! God cannot fail. I said Jesus fufilled all the prophecies concerning the coming Messiah. Like it or not that "is" what happened.

The Old Testament and New Testament is about God and His revelation to man.

Luke 3:23-31

New International Version (NIV)

23 Now Jesus himself was about thirty years old when he began his ministry. He was the son, so it was thought, of Joseph,
the son of Heli, 24 the son of Matthat,
the son of Levi, the son of Melki,
the son of Jannai, the son of Joseph,
25 the son of Mattathias, the son of Amos,
the son of Nahum, the son of Esli,
the son of Naggai, 26 the son of Maath,
the son of Mattathias, the son of Semein,
the son of Josek, the son of Joda,
27 the son of Joanan, the son of Rhesa,
the son of Zerubbabel, the son of Shealtiel,
the son of Neri, 28 the son of Melki,
the son of Addi, the son of Cosam,
the son of Elmadam, the son of Er,
29 the son of Joshua, the son of Eliezer,
the son of Jorim, the son of Matthat,
the son of Levi, 30 the son of Simeon,
the son of Judah, the son of Joseph,
the son of Jonam, the son of Eliakim,
31 the son of Melea, the son of Menna,
the son of Mattatha, the son of Nathan,
the son of David,

Jesus is not the son of Joseph. Jesus is the Son of God.

 

[Vanguard]

Jesus is not the son of Joseph. Jesus is the Son of God.

Thanks reba!

I don't think that is what she was trying to say though. I think she was going for the first prophecy of being a descendant of David, but she forgot that Jesus was God's son, Joseph's adopted son, and thus His bloodline can't be traced through Joseph. That is the big argument that Jews use. I have a counter argument to the Jewish position, but no one has asked for it yet so I have remained silent.

Also, if I am getting out of line on this thread, please let me know. I try to be civil and stay on topic but she is coming at me with some stuff that HAD to be refuted.

 

[Webb]

Have read Willmington, pg. 408. My point remains: In I Thess. 4 the saved are caught up to meet the Lord in the air and "so shall we ever be." No record that Jesus will set foot on earth again. Zech.14 relates to the destruction of Jerusalem.

 

[Vanguard]

Zech.14 relates to the destruction of Jerusalem.

Hermeneutics 101.

 

[P31Woman]

Have read Willmington, pg. 408. My point remains: In I Thess. 4 the saved are caught up to meet the Lord in the air and "so shall we ever be." No record that Jesus will set foot on earth again. Zech.14 relates to the destruction of Jerusalem.

I just pulled out Warren Wiersbe's Exposition Commentary on the Prophets. He agrees with the other Willmington. On page 470 he starts out dealing with Chapters 12-14 by saying,

"In this second oracle, Jechariah takes us to the end of times. He describes the gentile nations attacking Jerusalem, the Jews experiencing severe trials and then the Lord returning in power and great glory to deliver His people and establish the promised kingdom. ...................................................As you study these three chapters note the repetition of the phrase "in that day" which is found 16 times. "That day" is "the Day of the Lord" the day of wrath and judgment that the propehts wrote about (Joel 3:9-16; Zep.1) and that Jesus described in Matthew 24:4-31 and John in Revelation 6-19."

There are several pages of commentary here that I will need to study.

I will get back with you on this a little later. I have a job, family and elderly friend I help care for who is in the hospital. I wish someone would pay be me to stay home and study scritpure.

 

[P31Woman]

Jesus is not the son of Joseph. Jesus is the Son of God.

Vanguard has claimed Jesus did not fufill the OT Prophecy that the promised Messiah would come from the line of David.

I used scripture to show that is false. The message of that book of Matthew focuses on the Kingship of Jesus. I could have used this passage.

Matthew 1
The Genealogy of Jesus the Messiah

1 This is the genealogy[a] of Jesus the Messiah[b] the son of David, the son of Abraham:

2 Abraham was the father of Isaac,
Isaac the father of Jacob,
Jacob the father of Judah and his brothers,
3 Judah the father of Perez and Zerah, whose mother was Tamar,
Perez the father of Hezron,
Hezron the father of Ram,
4 Ram the father of Amminadab,
Amminadab the father of Nahshon,
Nahshon the father of Salmon,
5 Salmon the father of Boaz, whose mother was Rahab,
Boaz the father of Obed, whose mother was Ruth,
Obed the father of Jesse,
6 and Jesse the father of King David.

David was the father of Solomon, whose mother had been Uriah’s wife,
7 Solomon the father of Rehoboam,
Rehoboam the father of Abijah,
Abijah the father of Asa,
8 Asa the father of Jehoshaphat,
Jehoshaphat the father of Jehoram,
Jehoram the father of Uzziah,
9 Uzziah the father of Jotham,
Jotham the father of Ahaz,
Ahaz the father of Hezekiah,
10 Hezekiah the father of Manasseh,
Manasseh the father of Amon,
Amon the father of Josiah,
11 and Josiah the father of Jeconiah[c] and his brothers at the time of the exile to Babylon.


12 After the exile to Babylon:
Jeconiah was the father of Shealtiel,
Shealtiel the father of Zerubbabel,
13 Zerubbabel the father of Abihud,
Abihud the father of Eliakim,
Eliakim the father of Azor,
14 Azor the father of Zadok,
Zadok the father of Akim,
Akim the father of Elihud,
15 Elihud the father of Eleazar,
Eleazar the father of Matthan,
Matthan the father of Jacob,
16 and Jacob the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary, and Mary was the mother of Jesus who is called the Messiah.


17 Thus there were fourteen generations in all from Abraham to David, fourteen from David to the exile to Babylon, and fourteen from the exile to the Messiah.

 

[P31Woman]

Hermeneutics 101.

Take it up with Doc,

Dr. Harold L. Willmington is an author, educator, and Bible lecturer. He attended Dallas Theological Seminary and Texas and Ashland Theological Seminary, and he is a graduate of Moody Bible Institute, Culver-Stockton College, and Trinity Evangelical Divinity School. Dr. Willmington has authored 15 books, including "Willmington's Guide to the Bible," "The King Is Coming," and "Willmington's Bible Handbook." Prior to coming to Liberty University in 1972, he pastored for 17 years. He currently serves as vice president and board member of Liberty University. He has also served as a visiting professor at the American Institute of Holy Land Studies in Jerusalem, Israel. More than 80,000 students from all 50 states and 30 foreign countries have enrolled in Liberty Home Bible Institute correspondence courses, consisting of 240 forty-five-minute lectures developed by Dr. Willmington. Over 10 million of his teaching cassettes are now in circulation worldwide.

This last individual I mentioned was Dr. Wiersbe. Here is his bio. from winkipedia

Warren Wendel Wiersbe (born May 16, 1929) is an American pastor, Bible teacher, conference speaker and a prolific writer of Christian literature and theological works. Born in East Chicago, Indiana, Wiersbe is perhaps best known for his series of 50 books in the "BE" series: Be Real, Be Rich, Be Obedient, Be Mature, Be Joyful, etc. and other theological works.

Warren Wiersbe studied at Indiana University in Indianapolis, Roosevelt University, and graduated in 1953 from Northern Baptist Theological Seminary in Lombard, Illinois. While attending the seminary, he was ordained as pastor of Central Baptist Church in 1951 and served until 1957. From September 1957 to 1961, Wiersbe served as Director of The Literature Division for Youth for Christ International. From 1961 to 1971 he pastored Calvary Baptist Church of Covington, Kentucky south of Cincinnati, Ohio. The church grew from a church seating a congregation of eight hundred to build a new church seating of two thousand. This church drew members from the Ohio, Indiana and Kentucky Tri-state Area. His Sunday sermons were broadcast as the “Calvary Hour” on a local Cincinnati radio station. From 1971 to 1978, Warren Wiersbe pastored Chicago's Moody Church, named for 19th century evangelist Dwight L. Moody. While At Moody Church he continued in radio ministry to include Speaker on “Songs in the Night”, a national radio program that moved to Moody Church in 1968. Between August 1979 and March 1982 he wrote bi-weekly for Christianity Today as “Eutychus X”. Also during this same time frame between 1978 to 1982, Warren Wiersbe taught practical theology classes at Trinity Evangelical Divinity School in Deerfield, Illinois and wrote the course material and taught, "Imagination and the Quest for Biblical Preaching", a Doctor of Ministry course at Trinity and Dallas Seminary. While pastoring in Chicago, Warren Wiersbe served on the board of Slavic Gospel Association (SGA) from 1971 to 1983, ten of those years he served as chairman of the board. From 1980 to 1990 he went to work for Back to the Bible radio broadcasting network and served as general director the last six years of his time there. In 1995, Wiersbe became Writer in Residence at Cornerstone University in Grand Rapids, Michigan, and Distinguished Professor of Preaching at Grand Rapids Theological Seminary. A contributing editor to Baker Book House. He has been writing books since the 1950s under several publishing house labels; completing more than 150 books including the popular BE series of commentaries on every book of the Bible which has sold over four million copies. Warren Wiersbe was awarded two honorary Doctorate Degrees and has accumulated in his personal library more than 10,000 books; some times referred to as “the pastor’s pastor”, Dr. Wiersbe has become a well known and trusted Bible theologian and scholar throughout Fundamental and Evangelical circles.

Both of these guys don't just teach PhD's they write the TEXT BOOKS.

 

[P31Woman]

Thanks reba!

I don't think that is what she was trying to say though. I think she was going for the first prophecy of being a descendant of David, but she forgot that Jesus was God's son, Joseph's adopted son, and thus his bloodline can't be traced through Joseph. That is the big argument that Jews use. I have a counter argument to the Jewish position, but no one has asked for it yet so I have remained silent.

Also, if I am getting out of line on this thread, please let me know. I try to be civil and stay on topic but she is coming at me with some stuff that HAD to be refuted.

See the part I put in bold.
Never for one second did I forget that FACT.

 

[WIP]

Is this a competition to see who can score the most points or a study of the Word? Let's try to remain objective please lest the thread turn sour.

 

[Webb]

Hermeneutics 101.

straight from D.R. Dungan

 

[Webb]

Hi P31Woman
I agree with much you write. I aquired a number of books by Wiersbe at an estate sale. I do not agree with much of his theology. It matters not how many degrees anyone has on either side of a discussion, the question is, and always must be, WHAT DOES THE BIBLE TEACH. There are students of the scripture who understand that Zech.14 is referring to the destruction of Jerusalem. I Thess.4 very definitely shows that at His 2nd coming Jesus does not set foot on earth. I know this disparages some very favorite doctrines of some, but true nonetheless.

I understand your lack of time as such has also become my lot. I am approaching the mid 80's in life, an ex United States Marine, cowboy and owner of an auto body shop and have now undertaken some additional responsibilities which make it necessary to wean myself not only from the forum to some degree but other matters.

God bless

 

[P31Woman]

Have read Willmington, pg. 408. My point remains: In I Thess. 4 the saved are caught up to meet the Lord in the air and "so shall we ever be." No record that Jesus will set foot on earth again. Zech.14 relates to the destruction of Jerusalem.

I don't see any conflict here. I will keep studyings.