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Take heed no one deceives you.

Do you believe Jesus Christ is the only way to God?


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Hopeful

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Thank goodness as children of God we can receive forgiveness of sin, if we should stumble, being ignorant of God’s word as newly born again child of God.
If we are not aware of something, it is not a stumble-sin.
New Christians walk in the light, "He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him." (1 John 2:10)
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
1 John 1:9-1
Thank God sinners have a way to be washed of ALL their sins by the blood of Christ. (1 John 1:7)
Then they too can start walking in the light...which is God. (1 John 1:5)
Then they can say they have no sin.
It is those who walk in the darkness who cannot say they have no sin. Darkness is sin. (Pro 4:19)
They can't say they have fellowship with God either. (1 John 1:6)
 

for_his_glory

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You define that "change" in a manner that indicates a change from sinner to non-sinner.
I see it as a change from mere mortal temple of the Holy Ghost to a new glorified body.
You define "corruption" as sin.
I define it as the aging of an oft injured piece of machinery...the vessel.

Your version of scripture sure mangled your last comment..."in order to meet Jesus in the air as no one knows what we will look like, but that we will be like Jesus in all His glory."
The KJV of the bible writes 1 John 3:2 thusly..."Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is."
I see the last 8 words like this..."we shall see Him being as He is.
We don't need to wait for His arrival to be "like Him".
Steve Amato - bcbsr.com/topics/sinless.html

It would be nice if once achieves a state of perfect and continual sinlessness immediately upon being born of God. But that apparently is not the case as Paul affirms in his own Christian experience saying, "I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin." Romans 7:25 But also "If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us." 1John 1:8 But I would say most prominently of all is the fact that the New Testament letters don't make any mention of a second work of grace in this life which causes one to be sinlessly perfect. Rather much is written concerning living rightly and overcoming sin; written not to non-Christians, but rather to those label - the elect - the saved - those born of God. But if such people are only capable of doing right and incapable of committing any acts of sin, such exhortations would be unnecessary, don't you think? To support Holiness theology one would have to find verses which apply not to all Christians but to a particular class of Christians in which perfect sanctification is attained.

There is a second work of grace, but it doesn't occur in this life. Paul says, "I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, and so, somehow, to attain to the resurrection from the dead. Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me." Php 3:10-12 To attain this perfection Paul is saying that had would have to die and be raised from the dead. And he's not speaking metaphorically. In this lifetime we inhabit bodies of "flesh", a word which in Greek is "sarx". This same word the NIV often translates "sinful nature". We cannot attain perfection while in this lifetime.
 

JLB

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If we are not aware of something, it is not a stumble-sin.
New Christians walk in the light, "He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him." (1 John 2:10)

Thank God sinners have a way to be washed of ALL their sins by the blood of Christ. (1 John 1:7)
Then they too can start walking in the light...which is God. (1 John 1:5)
Then they can say they have no sin.
It is those who walk in the darkness who cannot say they have no sin. Darkness is sin. (Pro 4:19)
They can't say they have fellowship with God either. (1 John 1:6)

Thank goodness Christians can have their sins forgiven.


If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. 1 John 1:9-10




JLB
 

Hopeful

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Steve Amato - bcbsr.com/topics/sinless.html

It would be nice if once achieves a state of perfect and continual sinlessness immediately upon being born of God. But that apparently is not the case as Paul affirms in his own Christian experience saying, "I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin." Romans 7:25 But also "If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us." 1John 1:8 But I would say most prominently of all is the fact that the New Testament letters don't make any mention of a second work of grace in this life which causes one to be sinlessly perfect. Rather much is written concerning living rightly and overcoming sin; written not to non-Christians, but rather to those label - the elect - the saved - those born of God. But if such people are only capable of doing right and incapable of committing any acts of sin, such exhortations would be unnecessary, don't you think? To support Holiness theology one would have to find verses which apply not to all Christians but to a particular class of Christians in which perfect sanctification is attained.

There is a second work of grace, but it doesn't occur in this life. Paul says, "I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, and so, somehow, to attain to the resurrection from the dead. Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me." Php 3:10-12 To attain this perfection Paul is saying that had would have to die and be raised from the dead. And he's not speaking metaphorically. In this lifetime we inhabit bodies of "flesh", a word which in Greek is "sarx". This same word the NIV often translates "sinful nature". We cannot attain perfection while in this lifetime.
I'm sorry Steve Amato hasn't read my refutations of such ideas.
I wonder what he thinks about Rom 6:6..."Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."
He seems convinced of the old fleshly minded man's survival.
 

Hopeful

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Thank goodness Christians can have their sins forgiven.


If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. 1 John 1:9-10
Thank Goodness Christians don't have to commit sin anymore.
 

ezrider

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The title of the OP cautions to let no one deceive you. But how do you recognize when you deceive yourself?

1 John 1:8-10
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.


Some can be ever learning, yet never come to the knowledge of the truth. They can study the scriptures for 40 years, researching the beast, the histories of men and the kingdoms of this world for fuller understanding; teaching themselves so as not to be deceived by others, yet unaware they deceive themselves.


1 Corinthians 3:18
Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.
 

JLB

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Thank Goodness Christians don't have to commit sin anymore.


Amen, they don’t have to, especially when they, like Paul learn by the Spirit not to walk according to the flesh.


John says it this way —



My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.
1 John 2:1-2






JLB
 

Hopeful

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Amen, they don’t have to, especially when they, like Paul learn by the Spirit not to walk according to the flesh.


John says it this way —



My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.
1 John 2:1-JLB
Would you agree that the "anyone" of 1 John 2:1 are those who walk in darkness and who cannot say they have fellowship with God?
 

JLB

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Would you agree that the "anyone" of 1 John 2:1 are those who walk in darkness and who cannot say they have fellowship with God?

My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 1 John 2:1-2



We and our refer to John and the Christians he was writing to.


JLB
 

JLB

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Would you agree that the "anyone" of 1 John 2:1 are those who walk in darkness and who cannot say they have fellowship with God?

anyone by context is of "my little children" which refers to the Christian community he was writing to.
 

Hopeful

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My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 1 John 2:1-2

We and our refer to John and the Christians he was writing to.JLB
Why then do you keep insisting the children of God commit sin?
God's children, reborn of God seed, cannot commit sin. (1 John 3:9)
So the "anyone" are those not yet in Christ.
Sinners, those who walk in the darkness, do not have fellowship with God. (1 John 1:5)
They are not our brothers.
We are to make them aware of our Advocate, so they too can walk in the light...in God.
 

Hopeful

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anyone by context is of "my little children" which refers to the Christian community he was writing to.
You may have missed that you are talking about the second sentence, and not the first.
The context moved from the "children" John was addressing and on to the "anyone" who do commit sin.
 

JLB

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Why then do you keep insisting the children of God commit sin?

I keep insisting what the scriptures say.

That born again Christians should not sin.

  • My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin.

Are you suggesting that “my little children” refers to children of Satan and that children of Satan have the ability to not sin?



My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 1 John 2:1


Only born again, children of God have the ability to live free from the dominion of sin.





JLB
 

JLB

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You may have missed that you are talking about the second sentence, and not the first.
The context moved from the "children" John was addressing and on to the "anyone" who do commit sin.

My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 1 John 2:1



You may have missed that John includes himself in the sentence with anyone, which contextually demonstrates he is still referring to ”my little children”.


Unbelievers do not have the privilege of having an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. That is for believers.


Unbelievers must repent and turn to God, to receive the forgiveness of sin, and have Jesus Christ as their Advocate.



JLB
 

Hopeful

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I keep insisting what the scriptures say.
That born again Christians should not sin.
  • My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin.
Are you suggesting that “my little children” refers to children of Satan and that children of Satan have the ability to not sin?
Nope.
But the subject of 1 John 2 changed in the second sentence from John's "children" to "anybody".
My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 1 John 2:1
Only born again, children of God have the ability to live free from the dominion of sin.
True.
Ergo, those who do commit sin are not reborn.
 

Hopeful

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My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 1 John 2:1
You may have missed that John includes himself in the sentence with anyone, which contextually demonstrates he is still referring to ”my little children”.
The Advocate is something we have, for the "anyone" who is still manifesting the fruit of the devil.
Unbelievers do not have the privilege of having an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. That is for believers.
Didn't you use that Advocate when you quit being a sinner?
He is available to "anyone" who will subject themselves to Him.
Unbelievers must repent and turn to God, to receive the forgiveness of sin, and have Jesus Christ as their Advocate.
Agreed.
And those who don't turn from sin are unbelieving.
You seem to see the Advocate as a bandage, while I see Him as a cure.
 

JLB

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Nope.
But the subject of 1 John 2 changed in the second sentence from John's "children" to "anybody".

So you believe "anybody" to exclude Christians?

Again, it's Christians who have an Advocate with the Father, not children of Satan.


My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 1 John 2:1
 

Hopeful

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So you believe "anybody" to exclude Christians?
Yes, as those reborn of God cannot commit sin, (1 John 3:9), it stands to reason that only the unregenerated are the ones in need of our Advocate.
Again, it's Christians who have an Advocate with the Father, not children of Satan.
My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 1 John 2:1
I guess we believe 1 John 3:9-10 differently.
"Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother." (1 John 3:9-10)
 

JLB

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Yes, as those reborn of God cannot commit sin, (1 John 3:9), it stands to reason that only the unregenerated are the ones in need of our Advocate.

It stands to reason that reading what the scripture actually says together with the context and studying what the words mean, is the way to gain a balanced understanding.

You didn’t bother to actually quote the scripture, nor it’s context, but rather you stated your opinion, and your “reasoning”, then tagged your opinion with a scripture reference.

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1 John 3:9


Commit sin —. Strong's G266 - hamartia​

  1. to be without a share in
  2. to miss the mark
  3. to err, be mistaken
  4. to miss or wander from the path of uprightness and honour, to do or go wrong
  5. to wander from the law of God, violate God's law, sin
  6. that which is done wrong, sin, an offence, a violation of the divine law in thought or in act
  7. collectively, the complex or aggregate of sins committed either by a single person or by many

John is using this phrase to denote those who practice sin. Sin that is both premeditated and unrepentant.


Context —


Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother. 1 John 3:7-10


The Lord desires that those who are born again and filled with His Spirit, practice righteousness rather that practicing sin; practicing the works of the flesh.

John goes on to say in Chapter 3 —
The way we remain “in Christ” is by keeping His commandments.


Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24



However, we also have this passage that John introduced his message, in the first chapter.



But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 1 John 1:7-2:2


As we can all plainly see, walking in the light, as He is in the light, doesn’t mean we are “sinless”, because the passage says…


But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.


The same group of people that walks in the light, and has fellowship with one another is the same group of people that the blood of Jesus cleanses from sin.



  • If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.




JLB
 

Hopeful

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It stands to reason that reading what the scripture actually says together with the context and studying what the words mean, is the way to gain a balanced understanding.
Agreed.
You didn’t bother to actually quote the scripture, nor it’s context, but rather you stated your opinion, and your “reasoning”, then tagged your opinion with a scripture reference.
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1 John 3:9
I was under the impression that quoted scriptures could be "tapped" on and would pop-up.
Am I wrong about that?
Commit sin —. Strong's G266 - hamartia
  1. to be without a share in
  2. to miss the mark
  3. to err, be mistaken
  4. to miss or wander from the path of uprightness and honour, to do or go wrong
  5. to wander from the law of God, violate God's law, sin
  6. that which is done wrong, sin, an offence, a violation of the divine law in thought or in act
  7. collectively, the complex or aggregate of sins committed either by a single person or by many
John is using this phrase to denote those who practice sin. Sin that is both premeditated and unrepentant.
If a man sins once every five years, it is a practice.
As you don't believe anyone can be without sin anyway, are not they all practicing sin?
Context —
Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother. 1 John 3:7-10
My bible doesn't have the word "practice" in it.
And I have no need to dilute righteousness with the accommodation of wickedness to make inroads.
The Lord desires that those who are born again and filled with His Spirit, practice righteousness rather that practicing sin; practicing the works of the flesh.
John goes on to say in Chapter 3 —
The way we remain “in Christ” is by keeping His commandments.
As you can see that those who commit sin are not in Christ, how can they be confused for the reborn?
They manifest they are still the children of the devil !
1 John 3:10..."In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother."
Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24
That kinda shoots down your "practicing" concept.
However, we also have this passage that John introduced his message, in the first chapter.
But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 1 John 1:7-2:2


As we can all plainly see, walking in the light, as He is in the light, doesn’t mean we are “sinless”, because the passage says…


But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
Another instance of erroneous post-writer punctuation.
Ideally, there should have been a period after "one another" and "And the blood..."
The writer changed contexts.
He is making an additional point, after declaring that "we have fellowship with one another".
If we walk in the light we can't commit a sin because no sin can be in the light.
The light is God and we all know there is no sin in God.
The same group of people that walks in the light, and has fellowship with one another is the same group of people that the blood of Jesus cleanses from sin.
The cleansing happens first.
Then we can walk in God.
There are no unclean persons in God.
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
Written of those who walk in darkness.
"If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
The verse you quote saying we can not say we are without sin, declares how we can be without sin.
 
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