Who was it that yelled out "crucify him". It wasn't the Romans.
Christian Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
-
Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
Take heed no one deceives you.
- Thread starter JLB
- Start date
Why do you insist that OT men/women of faith are not saved? Faith is faith, whether OT men/women of faith or NT men/women of faith as nothing has changed from the beginning with those who came to believe in God.
Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
Luke 5:31 And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick.
Luke 5:32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
This is the context of Jesus' words from John 10:27...
"Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly." (John 10:24)
Jesus was talking to Jews.
There were some Gentile believers during Jesus' time on earth, before His crucifixion.
The centurion whose servant Jesus healed is the only one I can think of right now.
I have never said nobody from the OT would be saved on the day of judgement.
You seem to be confusing "salvation" with "walking in the Spirit".
The OT men never had the chance to be baptized into Christ, into His death, burial, or resurrection; so had to walk in the flesh instead of in the Spirit all the days of their lives.
We of the NT have been given those gifts.
They had the Mosaic Law for their guide, commandments, and atonements for sins: and because they walked in the flesh, could not live it perfectly.
Because we have crucified the flesh (with the affections and lusts), and walk in the Spirit, we can live perfectly according to God.
Glory be to God !
ezrider
Member
What does ever learning, but never able to come to the knowledge of the truth mean to you? What would qualify for you as someone who is ever learning? If someone has been studying the scripture for 40 years, yet still learning knowledge, would you say that person might be ever learning, yet never able to come to the knowledge of the truth?
It is also written in Timothy to study to show thyself approved. If one is ever learning, yet never able to come to the knowledge of the truth, then could it also be said that person is not yet approved, thus the need for continued study?
It’s means a person is constantly learning the truth‘s that come from scripture, but they never experience that truth in their lives because they don’t put into practice the truth they are learning; they are hearing the word but not doing the word of truth.
But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.
James 1:22
JLB
If one is not coming into knowledge of the truth, then they are just following a pretense of only looking good on the outside, but full of dead mans bones on the inside as they have no knowledge of the word of God. Other words they do not take it upon themselves to open the Bible and study it.
There is a name for these type of people called SMO (Sunday morning only), meaning they go to church every Sunday and warm the pew for an hour, but leave just as empty as they were when they entered through the door as when they go home they put their Bible on a shelf and dust it off for next Sunday.
I feel you need to learn what walking by faith is all about and how the Holy Spirit came upon them in the OT.
When you make a statement like "The OT men never had the chance to be baptized into Christ, into His death, burial, or resurrection; so had to walk in the flesh instead of in the Spirit all the days of their lives." This leads me to believe you do not think that faith in God can save anyone.
The centurion, none the less, was a Gentile who by name was mentioned in scripture. What about Jesus going to the Gentile nations of Samaria, Gadara in Decapolis, Tyre and Sidon to name a few of the Gentile nations in which He preached to the Gentiles as many believed in Him.
All of Jesus disciples were Jews (with very, very few exceptions). Why do you persist in attacking Jesus' people?
It was the Romans -- gentiles -- who crucified Jesus. Why don't you attack the people who actually killed Jesus?
Matthew 15:25-26, "The woman came and knelt before him. “Lord, help me!” she said. He replied, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.” Jesus calls the Jews "the children" and gentiles "the dogs".
Last edited:
ezrider
Member
Your response is confusing to me when you say in other words, they do not take it upon themselves to open the Bible and study it, yet you agreed with JLB's comment where he said.....
I agree with his comment. Ever learning means a person is constantly learning truths that come from the scripture. But your response for_his_glory seems to presuppose that ever learning means never learning, which is not what the scripture in Timothy stated. Ever learning, like JLB said is constantly learning, or in other words, the Bible isn't sitting on a shelf collecting dust, but they actually study the scripture judiciously; ever learning, but never able to come to the knowledge of truth.
As the children of Israel were led out of the land of Egypt, the witnessed to power of God. They were led by a cloud by day and a pillar of fire by night. They witnessed the glory of the Lord descend upon Mt Sinai, that generation wandered in the wilderness for 40 years in their unbelief, never entering the promise land. Hence my question; If someone has been studying the scripture for 40 years, yet still learning knowledge, would you say that person might be ever learning, yet never able to come to the knowledge of the truth?
It could be said that someone who is ever learning is thirsty for knowledge, hungry for the word, yet never coming to the knowledge of the truth.
John 6:35
And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
And again
You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life. John 5:39-49
Can you not see a difference in Covenants?
They were given the Law to guide them, but we have been given God's Spirit.
They could not be made perfect, but we can be.
It is written..."For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God." (Heb 7:19)'
''And these all, (OT examples of faith) having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect." (Heb 11:39-40)
If men can't see the perfection that is now available to them in the NT, they are still living under the old covenant.
None of that changes the context of John 10:17, or to whom Jesus was speaking about "His" sheep.
Look how many people go to universities, seminaries, bible classes, and even forums like this, to learn about religion, and see how many never came to the truth.
We are children of Abraham, through faith in Christ.
Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? Have you suffered so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain?
Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?— just as Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.Galatians 3:3-9
- So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.
The word perfect means complete.
Complete as in full-stature sonship; fully transformed into Christ
This has nothing to do with being baptized in water.
JLB
Great post!
Have you ever read Hebrews Chapter 11 or truly understand what faith is all about. You make it sound like everyone who lived before the time of Christ are damned never to have eternal life with the Father.
It is only our spirit/soul that has been perfected by the Spiritual rebirth from above and that will be what goes back to God who made us a living soul. You really need to quit teaching the false doctrine of sinless perfection as the flesh will always wrestle against the Spirit that is within us.
Can you not see that there is no good thing in the flesh as our flesh where the sin nature dwells is as a filthy rag to God. This is why we need to be Spiritually born again within the inner man being our spirit and soul, not flesh and blood.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
1Cor 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Cor 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Cor 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
1John 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
1John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
1John 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
I never said part of the 12 were Gentiles. No, it was the Jews that cried out "crucify him".
Matthew 15:21-28 Jesus never called the Gentiles dogs, but the Jews regarded them as being unfit. At the time of Christ talking to the Canaanite woman He was telling her He was sent for the lost sheep of Israel.
When Jesus told her, "It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs" He was telling the woman His duty was to the people of Israel, but when He saw great faith in her after she likened the Gentiles to dogs that eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table Jesus told her she had great faith and her daughter was healed.
Even though Jesus taught the Jews, many Gentiles also heard Him speak and believed in Him.
Luke 23:18 And they cried out all at once, saying, Away with this man, and release unto us Barabbas:
Luke 23:19 (Who for a certain sedition made in the city, and for murder, was cast into prison.)
Luke 23:20 Pilate therefore, willing to release Jesus, spake again to them.
Luke 23:21 But they cried, saying, Crucify him, crucify him.
Luke 23:22 And he said unto them the third time, Why, what evil hath he done? I have found no cause of death in him: I will therefore chastise him, and let him go.
Luke 23:23 And they were instant with loud voices, requiring that he might be crucified. And the voices of them and of the chief priests prevailed.
Sorry my response was confusing to you. What JLB said in his post was worded better than what I said. One can ever be learning, but yet still not understand what they are learning, or like he said, never apply what they learn.