Tasted Death for every Man !

[brightfame52]

Jesus purges our sins by exposing us to fire as he was,

he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, Mal.3:3

by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning. Isa.4:4

For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 1Pet.4:17

So the "judgment" for believers is now, not no judgment at all as you think.

the fiery trial which is to try you, 1Pet.4:12

Jesus purged sins by His Death, His Blood. The word purge means

1. a cleansing from the guilt of sins wrought by the expiatory sacrifice of Christ

Now the expiatory sacrifice of Christ simply means His Death, shedding His Blood. Whoever He did that for are saved Whoever is lost, He didn't die for.

 

[atpollard]

Maybe you could start a new thread?
I might sneak one into Theology.
Any ideas?

Yup, I started one in THEOLOGY on Genesis 1 that takes a little different approach.

 

[Mr. G Lee]

He did make it available, through Jesus Christ's suffering and death.

He made it available to as many as the father gave to Him. As many as not one more or one less.
Getting saved is a work we can do if we are given the power .

John 17:2-3 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

He does not give a remnant of eternal life

Who is it that gives you power over the flesh?

Doesn't that infer we have the choice of following Jesus, or not ?

Once he empowers us yoke with him. Without him we can do nothing he must increase as we decrease

The key to remember is both Philippian 2:13 the Spirit of Christ works in us both to revel his will and empowers us to it the finished works. Jesus spoke of in it in John the daily bread or hidden manna that the disciples knew not of.

John 4:33-35King James Version Therefore said the disciples one to another, Hath any man brought him ought to eat? Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

​

 

[journeyman]

Hmmm.
I don't really understand that.
Could you explain John 9,24?

he was numbered with the transgressors. Mk.15:28

he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin 2Cor.5:21

ye have heard his blasphemy. Mt.26:65

being made a curse for us Gal.3:13

The scriptures bear witness that Jesus was slandered.

For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 1Cor.15:3

According to the scriptures, our Savior endured unlawful treatment, sin against himself, but didn't call for the law against their wickedness.

For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds. Heb.12:3

 

[journeyman]

Jesus purged sins by His Death, His Blood. The word purge means

1. a cleansing from the guilt of sins wrought by the expiatory sacrifice of Christ

Now the expiatory sacrifice of Christ simply means His Death, shedding His Blood. Whoever He did that for are saved Whoever is lost, He didn't die for.

Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin. Heb.12:4

This can only mean they had not yet died...patiently loving, showing mercy towards, forgiving...those who would despise them and kill them,

For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal 2Cor.10:4

 

[Hopeful 2]

Doesnt matter who it is, if Christ died for them, they are saved, reconciled to God.

Not if they refuse to submit to God.
Jesus died for all men, but not all men do what is necessary to profit from it.

 

[Hopeful 2]

He made it available to as many as the father gave to Him. As many as not one more or one less.
Getting saved is a work we can do if we are given the power .

What about those who don't or won't use the power ?

John 17:2-3 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
He does not give a remnant of eternal life

Agreed, but that eternal life still hinges on the judgement of the last day.

Who is it that gives you power over the flesh?

God, and His Son Jesus.

Once he empowers us yoke with him. Without him we can do nothing he must increase as we decrease

More like...We cease and He starts.

The key to remember is both Philippian 2:13 the Spirit of Christ works in us both to revel his will and empowers us to it the finished works. Jesus spoke of in it in John the daily bread or hidden manna that the disciples knew not of.

John 4:33-35King James Version Therefore said the disciples one to another, Hath any man brought him ought to eat? Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

​

 

[brightfame52]

Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin. Heb.12:4

This can only mean they had not yet died...patiently loving, showing mercy towards, forgiving...those who would despise them and kill them,

For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal 2Cor.10:4

Those Christ died for are cleansed from the guilt of their sins, Justified Heb 1:3

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

Hes the God of our Salvation because He purged our sins Ps 79:9

Help us, O God of our salvation, for the glory of thy name: and deliver us, and purge away our sins, for thy name's sake.

 

[brightfame52]

Not if they refuse to submit to God.
Jesus died for all men, but not all men do what is necessary to profit from it.

If Christ tasted death for them, they are saved, and God changes them, gives them a New Birth, then they submit to God.

No man can submit to God until they are born again. So them He tasted death for are brought to Glory Heb 2:9-10

 

[journeyman]

Those Christ died for are cleansed from the guilt of their sins, Justified Heb 1:3

And your interpretation doesn't agree with the summation,

Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip.

This contradicts any contention against necessary repentance for salvation.

 

[Mr. G Lee]

What about those who don't or won't use the power ?

They will not hear the word to the gospel (power of God ) which does enable them to beleive .

Our first love we return to when erring. . hearing as believing it becomes one working in those yoked with Christ

Agreed, but that eternal life still hinges on the judgement of the last day.

I am not from that school of thought. There will be no retrial no double jeopardy we all receive the same reward the miracle of eternal life .

Its appointed to all of mankind to die one. the death . . we are experiencing The judgment after that which causes sufferings and death never to rise is the letter of the law. the death of death The living commandment thou shall not or you will really die and not raise to new life

The law as the instrument tossed in the judnemnt fire along with hell sufferings it will never to rise up and condemn through corruption dying fore ever and ever more

1 Corinthians 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? ( sufering hell) O grave, where is thy victory?

 

[Kermos]

Jesus, in a manner, put the "credit card" on the table to be used by whoever wants it.
Just because most won't do what it takes to use that "credit card" doesn't make the "card" a failure.
The "credit card" is His suffering and death.
I am reminded of the wedding guest who showed up without a wedding garment in Jesus' parable in Matt. 22.
The man was invited, if not forced to attend, but there were still requirements to be met.

You used the word "whoever" in your opening sentence, and that seems to be a reference to John 3:16, so let's do talk about John 3:16, but first let's touch upon the other matters of your post.

In Jesus' magnificent parable recorded in Matthew 22:2-13, the Greek word καλέσαι and κεκλημένους (Strong's 2564 - summon, call) translates properly to summons, not invite with the 20th century connotation of choosing whether to attend, but a royaln summons is an official demand for appearance, and a summons rejection raises the King's ire unto severe punishment as shown by Jesus' parable.

Also the parable at the beginning of Matthew 22 demonstrates that exclusively God chooses man without man choosing because my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ concludes with "many are called but few are chosen" (Matthew 22:14).

The Lord's teaching in the Matthew 22:2-13 parable is that while we humans may not recognize who is chosen by looking at another human, the Lord God Almighty always recognizes the chosen of God for the Word of God says:

• "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16), so God chooses people to be friends (John 15:15, the prior verse) and to believe (John 6:29) and to be born again (John 3:3-8) and for righteous works (John 3:21, John 15:5) and to repent (Matthew 11:25) and to love (John 13:34) and unto salvation (John 15:19 the same passage).
• "I chose you out of the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19, includes salvation), so God exclusively chooses people unto salvation.
• "What I say to you I say to all" (Lord Jesus Christ, Mark 13:37 - Jesus had taken the Apostles Peter, Andrew, James, and John aside in private and said this), so all the blessings of God mentioned above are to all believers in all time.

Now back to John 3:16

The first word of John 3:16 is a conjunction that inextricably ties John 3:14-15 to John 3:16, and here are the Lord Jesus' words as recorded by the Apostle John:

"As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; so that every believing will in Him have eternal life, for God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that every believing in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life" (John 3:14-16).
​

Lord Jesus brings in history by way of mentioning "the serpent in the wilderness" John 3:14), so here is the contextually linked passage about history:

Then YHWH said to Moses, "Make a fiery [serpent], and set it on a standard; and it shall come about, that everyone who is bitten, when he looks at it, he will live." And Moses made a bronze serpent and set it on the standard; and it came about, that if a serpent bit any man, when he looked to the bronze serpent, he lived. (Numbers 21:8-9).
​

Based on God's command about "the serpent in the wilderness" (John 3:14) and the results of the "bronze serpent" that Moses set on the standard (Numbers 21:9), the population of persons that certainly were affected by God's command about "the serpent in the wilderness" in order to live were ONLY each bitten person that looked at "the serpent in the wilderness".

Furthermore, there is a different population of persons which includes persons that DID NOT LOOK AT "the serpent in the wilderness".

Therefore, there are separate populations of persons identified in Jesus' words as recorded by the Apostle John (John 3:14-16) with the first "population of bitten look to live" and there was the second "population of everyone else".

In the next four paragraphs, we see the Word of God speaking to Moses (Numbers 21:8) in relation to the Word of God speaking to Nicodemus (John 3:16).

1. Notice how "everyone who is bitten" (Numbers 21:8) relates to "world" (John 3:16).
2. Notice how "when he" (Numbers 21:8) relates to "that every one" (John 3:16, note that the singular (not plural) Greek word pas [Strong's 3956] translates accurately as "every one" not so much as the unfettered promiscuous connotation of "whosoever" [KJV] or "whoever" [NASB]).
3. Notice how "look" (Numbers 21:8) relates to "believing" (John 3:16).
4. Notice how "live" (Numbers 21:8) relates to "eternal life" (John 3:16).

Jesus sets the relation between differing populations of persons by way of Him including the "the serpent in the wilderness" (John 3:14, Numbers 21:9), so the "population of bitten look to live" directly corresponds with the word "world" as per Jesus' usage (John 3:16).

The Word of God conclusively proves that the context establishes the word "world" as used by Jesus in John 3:16 includes ONLY the population of persons that currently believe in Jesus or will in the future believe in Jesus.

That long dead unbelieving Muslim man of 1502AD is not part of the "world" as mentioned by Jesus in John 3:16.

 

[Hopeful 2]

If Christ tasted death for them, they are saved,

Not necessarily.
We have a part to play in our own salvation.
Jesus did His part, so the rest is up to us.

and God changes them, gives them a New Birth, then they submit to God.

Only if they submit will God change them.
Repentance from sin and baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins come before the gift of the Holy Ghost is given. (Acts 2:38)

No man can submit to God until they are born again. So them He tasted death for are brought to Glory Heb 2:9-10

You are mistaken.
See above

 

[Hopeful 2]

They will not hear the word to (sic) the gospel (power of God ) which does enable them to beleive .

I guess you men "listen/heed" instead of just "hear".

Our first love we return to when erring. . hearing as believing it becomes one working in those yoked with Christ

What do you mean by "err"?
If you mean "sin", then they have not heeded the message from God.

I am not from that school of thought. There will be no retrial no double jeopardy we all receive the same reward the miracle of eternal life .

You don't believe our eternal life depends on the final judgement ?
That is when our names will be reveled in the book of life.
If our names are not there, off to the lake of fire !

Its appointed to all of mankind to die one. the death . . we are experiencing The judgment after that which causes sufferings and death never to rise is the letter of the law. the death of death The living commandment thou shall not or you will really die and not raise to new life
The law as the instrument tossed in the judnemnt fire along with hell sufferings it will never to rise up and condemn through corruption dying fore ever and ever more
1 Corinthians 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? ( sufering hell) O grave, where is thy victory?

You lost me there....

 

[Hopeful 2]

You used the word "whoever" in your opening sentence, and that seems to be a reference to John 3:16, so let's do talk about John 3:16, but first let's touch upon the other matters of your post.

I'll stick to the English version of scripture instead of what has been devised by men since the words inception.

The Word of God conclusively proves that the context establishes the word "world" as used by Jesus in John 3:16 includes ONLY the population of persons that currently believe in Jesus or will in the future believe in Jesus.

It applies to all who lived after Jesus' suffering, death, and resurrection.

That long dead unbelieving Muslim man of 1502AD is not part of the "world" as mentioned by Jesus in John 3:16.

The year given proves it was "the world" after Jesus' death and resurrection.

 

[brightfame52]

Not necessarily.
We have a part to play in our own salvation.
Jesus did His part, so the rest is up to us.

Only if they submit will God change them.
Repentance from sin and baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins come before the gift of the Holy Ghost is given. (Acts 2:38)

You are mistaken.
See above

Oh Yes, if Christ died for a person, that brings about their total salvation, they are saved.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Oh Yes, if Christ died for a person, that brings about their total salvation, they are saved.

Only if they accept it, and submit to His leadership..

 

[brightfame52]

Only if they accept it, and submit to His leadership..

When He saves them they accept it Him, Believe on Him, follow Him. He tasted death for them which brings them to Glory Heb 2:9-10. You want people to act saved before they are saved.

 

[Hopeful 2]

When He saves them they accept it Him, Believe on Him, follow Him. He tasted death for them which brings them to Glory Heb 2:9-10.

Salvation won't be granted until the day of judgement, so your scenario is a moot point.
A man has to accept something in order to profit from it.

You want people to act saved before they are saved.

Isn't that what life in Christ is all about?
Aren't we supposed to be glorifying God in our lives and enduring faithfully until the end ?

If you assume you are already saved, you leave yourself open to every OSAS doctrine that accommodates continued sinning.

 

[brightfame52]

Hopeful 2

Salvation won't be granted until the day of judgement,

False, and whom Christ tasted death for, it saved them and brings them to Glory