Tasted Death for every Man !

[journeyman]

The Bible shows our Savior as the sacrifice and High Priest now seated on the Throne in Heaven.
How on earth did people come to believe that Hebrews (or any other book) says that Jesus' sacrifice negates everything he taught? It got screwed up somehow.

 

[journeyman]

Does it matter at all that some Jew gave all mankind a perfect knowledge of how patient, merciful and loving the One True God of all really is?

 

[journeyman]

And so what if people aren't conformed to His Image now. All Gods' people will be conformed to His Image later.......right?

 

[Hopeful 2]

Hopeful 2


False, and whom Christ tasted death for, it saved them and brings them to Glory

You have left the door open for more sin. (You are already saved so what will a little adultery or theft matter?...)
A doctrine that does such is not of God.
Jesus said..."But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." (Matt 24:13)
If they were already saved, why endure anything at all ?

 

[journeyman]

It just doesn't fit. Doesn't make any sense at all it's bizarre.

He's sitting on the mercy seat.......which has nothing to do with His teaching,

Blessed are the merciful for they shall obtain mercy. Mt.5:7

??????? No!

 

[brightfame52]

You have left the door open for more sin. (You are already saved so what will a little adultery or theft matter?...)
A doctrine that does such is not of God.
Jesus said..."But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." (Matt 24:13)
If they were already saved, why endure anything at all ?

Those for whom Christ died, He has purged them from their sins Heb 1:3, they are Justified from sin, they are saved from sins penalty, and will be saved from its power when God regenerates them.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Those for whom Christ died, He has purged them from their sins Heb 1:3, they are Justified from sin, they are saved from sins penalty, and will be saved from its power when God regenerates them.

The regeneration happens here; but only after a real repentance from sin and baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sin.
At our water baptism in Jesus' name, our "old man is destroyed", (Rom 6:6), and a new creature is "raised with Christ to walk in newness of life". (Rom 6:4)
It is our choice whether or not to turn from sin.
It is our choice to get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins.
It is God's choice to give the gift of the Holy Ghost to those that do as Peter commanded in Acts 2:38.

I am glad I got the choice to have my past sins purged.

 

[brightfame52]

The regeneration happens here; but only after a real repentance from sin and baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sin.
At our water baptism in Jesus' name, our "old man is destroyed", (Rom 6:6), and a new creature is "raised with Christ to walk in newness of life". (Rom 6:4)
It is our choice whether or not to turn from sin.
It is our choice to get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins.
It is God's choice to give the gift of the Holy Ghost to those that do as Peter commanded in Acts 2:38.

I am glad I got the choice to have my past sins purged.

Regeneration happens so the one Christ died for will repent. When regeneration occurs repentance and faith comes with it. Everyone Christ tasted death for, must and will be regenerated since they are saved and justified, and sanctified by His death.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Regeneration happens so the one Christ died for will repent. When regeneration occurs repentance and faith comes with it. Everyone Christ tasted death for, bust be regenerated since they are saved and justified, and sanctified by His death.

You will need scripture to counter the scriptures I supplied revealing your error.

 

[brightfame52]

You will need scripture to counter the scriptures I supplied revealing your error.

What do you mean ? I have given scripture. Those Christ died for He brings to Glory Heb 2:9-10

Those He died for, they have had their sins purged Heb 1:3. So Christ makes them New and brings them to heaven.

 

[Hopeful 2]

What do you mean ? I have given scripture. y Heb 2:9-10

Can't you see the difference between "Those Christ died for He brings to Glory" and "Those brought to glory, He died for." ?
He died for all men, but not all men will profit from His suffering and death.
We have a part to play in our own salvation.

Those He died for, they have had their sins purged Heb 1:3. So Christ makes them New and brings them to heaven.

Jesus purged the sins of those who have or will submit to Him.
Without that submission on our part, there is no purging.

 

[brightfame52]

Can't you see the difference between "Those Christ died for He brings to Glory" and "Those brought to glory, He died for." ?
He died for all men, but not all men will profit from His suffering and death.
We have a part to play in our own salvation.

Jesus purged the sins of those who have or will submit to Him.
Without that submission on our part, there is no purging.

Those who Christ tasted death for and purged away their sins, they are given a new birth, born again to further their salvation that Christ saves them with to bring them to Glory Heb 2:9-10.

Without that submission on our part, there is no purging.

Thats not true according to Heb 1:3

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

We have a part to play in our own salvation.

Thats not true, it goes against Salvation by Grace. Please dont post such nonsense for its heresy.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Those who Christ tasted death for and purged away their sins, they are given a new birth, born again to further their salvation that Christ saves them with to bring them to Glory Heb 2:9-10.

I hope you have repented of sin and been baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of your past sins so you will be "brought to glory".

Thats not true according to Heb 1:3
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

Are you planning on seeing Hitler and Stalin in heven ?
They won't be there, as they never submitted to God so His purging of their sins could commence.

Thats not true, it goes against Salvation by Grace. Please dont post such nonsense for its heresy.

It is true, as no rebellious soul, nobody who walks after the flesh, will be found worthy of eternal life.
It is written..."Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God." (Gal 5:19-21)
Please don't call Paul a heretic.

 

[brightfame52]

I hope you have repented of sin and been baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of your past sins so you will be "brought to glory".

Are you planning on seeing Hitler and Stalin in heven ?
They won't be there, as they never submitted to God so His purging of their sins could commence.

It is true, as no rebellious soul, nobody who walks after the flesh, will be found worthy of eternal life.
It is written..."Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God." (Gal 5:19-21)
Please don't call Paul a heretic.

Christs death saves them He died for from their sins. They have been purged away Heb 1:3 so Jesus makes them New Creatures and brings them to Glory Heb 2:9-10

 

[Hopeful 2]

Christs death saves them He died for from their sins. They have been purged away Heb 1:3 so Jesus makes them New Creatures and brings them to Glory Heb 2:9-10

Christ's death saves those who submit to God.

 

[brightfame52]

Christ's death saves those who submit to God.

Christs death causes those He died for to submit to God, His taste of death for them brings them to God 1 Pet 3:18

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

 

[Kermos]

First, Hopeful 2, let’s look at John's Apostolic testimony, then your testimony, but first, John's testimony:

My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous, and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
(1 John 2:1-2)
​

We have been corresponding about the unbelieving dead Muslim man of 1502AD.

Now, let’s examine your testimony:

The Moslem is the “any man” of 1 John 2:1.

We must desire advocacy to get advocacy.

Since you successfully testified that the unbelieving dead Muslim man is that “any man” of 1 John 2:1-2, then combining that with your testimony of “We must desire advocacy to get advocacy” above, in effect, results in your testimony overriding the Apostle John’s testimony into

My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone, even the unbelieving Muslim man, sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous, as long as anyone desires Christ’s advocacy, and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world, even the unbelieving Muslim man.
(Hopeful 2)
​

which is no longer the Apostle John’s testimony recorded in 1 John 2:1-2 because your testimony requires the underlined text in the passage thus converting the passage into your own testimony. You just compare and contrast your testimony (your interpretation in blue letters) here with the Apostle John’s testimony (Source post).

The conclusion of your testimony is that Christ fails to cover the sins of that son of hell (Matthew 23:15) unbelieving long-dead Muslim man of 1502AD despite the Apostle John indicating 100% success for Christ in 1 John 2:1-2, so Christ’s advocacy failed upon that man’s death per your testimony.

Your testimony that the “anyone” and “the whole world” in 1 John 2:1-2 are everyone everywhere in all time shows your belief that Christ is a FAILURE (see this post for a detailed explanation).

The Apostle John’s and my testimony that the “anyone” and “the whole world” in 1 John 2:1-2 are exclusively current believers and/or future believers shows our belief that Christ is always a SUCCESS!

Second, Hopeful 2, we find in the Book of Hebrews:

we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone. For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things, and through whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to perfect the author of their salvation through sufferings
(Hebrews 2:9-10)
​

But, in your writing, we find:

Then he won’t be saved on the day of judgement.

So, when you wrote “Then he won’t be saved on the day of judgement”, then you conveyed that you believe:

“we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for that unbelieving dead Muslim man. For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things, and through whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory which includes bringing that unbelieving dead Muslim man to glory, to perfect the author of their salvation including the perfection of that unbelieving dead Muslim man’s salvation through sufferings”
(your conveyance Hopeful 2)
​

Therefore, you convey that Jesus attempted to perfect that unbelieving dead Muslim man’s salvation, but the Jesus you preach failed miserably to perfect the salvation of that “son of hell” (Matthew 23:15), so, in effect, you believe Jesus is a colossal failure; in other words, the Jesus that you preach is so weak that he is incapable of perfecting the salvation of people for whom he tries perfects salvation, so the Jesus you preach has null and void perfection of salvation (see this post for a detailed explanation).

In contrast to what you believe, Lord Jesus succeeds 100% of the time in His propitiating advocacy as well as His perfection of salvation in us children of God, so the long dead unbelieving Muslim man is not included in the “everyone” (Hebrews 2:9-10) nor “the whole world” (1 John 2:1-2),

Third, Hopeful 2, the Word of God says:

for God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that every one believing in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life
(John 3:16)
​

And,

he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God
(John 3:21)
​

And,

This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent
(John 6:29)
​

And,

I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand
(John 10:28)
​

But, in your word, we find:

Jesus, in a manner, put the “credit card” on the table to be used by whoever wants it.
Just because most won’t do what it takes to use that “credit card” doesn’t make the “card” a failure.
The “credit card” is His suffering and death.

In effect, you believe the long dead unbelieving Muslim man (being "the world" in John 3:16) was snatched out of the Sovereign God and Lord Jesus Christ's hand (see John 10:30), so, by extension, you believe that Jesus Christ is an extraordinary failure and A DECEIVER (see this post for a detailed explanation).

My Loving Lord and God Jesus Christ causes every Christian to believe in Him (John 6:29), and He causes every single good deed of every Christian (John 3:21), so we Christians are entirely dependent upon Lord Jesus at all times (John 10:30). PRAISE THE LORD FOR HIS GRACE, AMEN!

 

[Hopeful 2]

Christs death causes those He died for to submit to God, His taste of death for them brings them to God 1 Pet 3:18

No, it doesn't.
A repentant heart does that.

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

If you were correct in your assumption, as Jesus tasted death for all men, why haven't all men come to Him ?
Because it takes a willing and contrite heart to come to Him.
As 2 Cor 7:10 says..."For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
Conversion can't be forced, as the Islamists have by now figured out.

 

[Hopeful 2]

First, Hopeful 2, let’s look at John's Apostolic testimony, then your testimony, but first, John's testimony:

My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous, and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.​

(1 John 2:1-2)​

Yep, He is there for anyone who wants an advocate with God.

We have been corresponding about the unbelieving dead Muslim man of 1502AD.
Now, let’s examine your testimony:

Since you successfully testified that the unbelieving dead Muslim man is that “any man” of 1 John 2:1-2, then combining that with your testimony of “We must desire advocacy to get advocacy” above, in effect, results in your testimony overriding the Apostle John’s testimony into

"Could be", not "is".
It is entirely up to him whether or not he seeks God's intercession.

My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone, even the unbelieving Muslim man, sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous, as long as anyone desires Christ’s advocacy, and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world, even the unbelieving Muslim man.​

(Hopeful 2)​

I see nothing wrong with your para-phrasing.

which is no longer the Apostle John’s testimony recorded in 1 John 2:1-2 because your testimony requires the underlined text in the passage thus converting the passage into your own testimony. You just compare and contrast your testimony (your interpretation in blue letters) here with the Apostle John’s testimony (Source post).

You are correct, as my own para-phrasing illustrates what you can't see.
We could substitute the name and occupation of any man since Christ into the verse and it would still mean the same thing.
His advocacy is available to all men who want it.

The conclusion of your testimony is that Christ fails to cover the sins of that son of hell (Matthew 23:15) unbelieving long-dead Muslim man of 1502AD despite the Apostle John indicating 100% success for Christ in 1 John 2:1-2, so Christ’s advocacy failed upon that man’s death per your testimony.

Show his indication of 100% efficiency.

Your testimony that the “anyone” and “the whole world” in 1 John 2:1-2 are everyone everywhere in all time shows your belief that Christ is a FAILURE (see this post for a detailed explanation).

Only everyone alive during, and after, Christ's death and resurrection.

The Apostle John’s and my testimony that the “anyone” and “the whole world” in 1 John 2:1-2 are exclusively current believers and/or future believers shows our belief that Christ is always a SUCCESS!

Jesus did His part flawlessly.
He stand ready to advocate for anyone who desires His advocacy.
But not all desire it.

Second, Hopeful 2, we find in the Book of Hebrews:

we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone. For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things, and through whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to perfect the author of their salvation through sufferings​

(Hebrews 2:9-10)​

Yep, many....not all.

But, in your writing, we find:​

So, when you wrote “Then he won’t be saved on the day of judgement”, then you conveyed that you believe:

“we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for that unbelieving dead Muslim man. For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things, and through whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory which includes bringing that unbelieving dead Muslim man to glory, to perfect the author of their salvation including the perfection of that unbelieving dead Muslim man’s salvation through sufferings”​

(your conveyance Hopeful 2)​

That Muslim, and billions of others, were/are not part of the "many".

Therefore, you convey that Jesus attempted to perfect that unbelieving dead Muslim man’s salvation, but the Jesus you preach failed miserably to perfect the salvation of that “son of hell” (Matthew 23:15), so, in effect, you believe Jesus is a colossal failure; in other words, the Jesus that you preach is so weak that he is incapable of perfecting the salvation of people for whom he tries perfects salvation, so the Jesus you preach has null and void perfection of salvation (see this post for a detailed explanation).

If the man didn't want it, he won't get it.
Do you think that you would be where you are now if you didn't want it ?

In contrast to what you believe, Lord Jesus succeeds 100% of the time in His propitiating advocacy as well as His perfection of salvation in us children of God, so the long dead unbelieving Muslim man is not included in the “everyone” (Hebrews 2:9-10) nor “the whole world” (1 John 2:1-2),

Jesus' advocacy is 100% efficient...for those who desire His advocacy.

Third, Hopeful 2, the Word of God says:

for God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that every one believing in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life​

(John 3:16)​

And,

he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God​

(John 3:21)​

And,

This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent​

(John 6:29)​

And,

I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand​

(John 10:28)​

I am glad you included what is required for us to profit from Jesus' sacrifice: "believing", "doing the truth", and "not leaving the Father's hand".

But, in your word, we find:
In effect, you believe the long dead unbelieving Muslim man (being "the world" in John 3:16) was snatched out of the Sovereign God and Lord Jesus Christ's hand (see John 10:30), so, by extension, you believe that Jesus Christ is an extraordinary failure and A DECEIVER (see this post for a detailed explanation).

He never was, or wanted to be, in Father's hand.

My Loving Lord and God Jesus Christ causes every Christian to believe in Him (John 6:29), and He causes every single good deed of every Christian (John 3:21), so we Christians are entirely dependent upon Lord Jesus at all times (John 10:30). PRAISE THE LORD FOR HIS GRACE, AMEN!

You should have included the question Jesus was answering in John 6:29...
28 "Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?"
It doesn't look at all like Jesus is forcing them to believe.
As I have been saying all along, it is a choice we must make in order to be converted, and in the end, saved.

 

[brightfame52]

Hopeful 2

No, it doesn't.
A repentant heart does that.

Yes it does, Christ gives Repentance as Saviour Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Everyone Christ tasted death for He brings them to Glory Heb 2:9-10

He gives them repentance, and that causes them to repent, that's what the Saviour does.