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[ACMP=warning]
theMadJW said:
And yet every church is a cult.
Which one do you belong to, O conceited one?

Cult

Etymology: French & Latin; French culte, from Latin cultus care, adoration, from colere to cultivate

1 : formal religious veneration : WORSHIP
2 : a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents
3 : a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also : its body of adherents
4 : a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator <health cults>
5 a : great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book); especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad b : the object of such devotion c : a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion
Click to expand...

Every Church is not a cult. You have been warned about misrepresent other people’s beliefs, and you have slandered people with derogatory labels.


If you can’t hold a decent conversation using scripture from an authorized version of the Bible, you may lose your privilege to post here.


Please for the last time, just make a point with scripture.





JLB
[/ACMP]
 
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JLB said:
Every Church is not a cult. You have been warned about misrepresent other people’s beliefs, and you have slandered people with derogatory labels.


If you can’t hold a decent conversation using scripture from an authorized version of the Bible, you may lose your privilege to post here.


Please for the last time, just make a point with scripture.





JLB
Click to expand...


You calling me a cult, and I just pointed out that in English (quoted in your post) EVERY CHURCH is a cult.
Why not "just make a point with scripture" and call those believing in Christ a cult!
 
theMadJW said:
You calling me a cult, and I just pointed out that in English (quoted in your post) EVERY CHURCH is a cult.
Why not "just make a point with scripture" and call those believing in Christ a cult!
Click to expand...

Please read what I said.

I asked you not to misrepresent people here on this Forum claiming their church is a cult.


JLB said:
[ACMP=warning]


Every Church is not a cult. You have been warned about misrepresent other people’s beliefs, and you have slandered people with derogatory labels.


If you can’t hold a decent conversation using scripture from an authorized version of the Bible, you may lose your privilege to post here.


Please for the last time, just make a point with scripture.





JLB
[/ACMP]
Click to expand...






JLB
 
wondering said:
Are you referring to the Catholic Church...or the Universalist Church...the only church that existed after Jesus died and the Early Fathers took over the role of the Apostles after their death. Other little groups of church sprung up,,,but they were gnostic or heretical in some way.
Click to expand...
Catholic Church

Since we have different sources between us which we consider spiritual authorities, it would be very difficult if not impossible, to come to agreement. As I recall, the Catholic Church has multiple sources of divine revelation/authority. Most other Christian religions just one: the Bible. So, any discussion we might engage in would probably turn into a "he said, she, said" type of thing.

wondering said:
If you don't trust these persons,,,the same ones that put together the bible you read...
WHO do you trust?

Which person are you trusting your soul to right now?
Click to expand...


"Persons" didn't "put together the Bible", God wrote it. Were it a work of man, we would all be in a lot of trouble indeed,
Which person am I "trusting my soul to?" No person, just God through the Holy Spirit -- they are all that's necessary.

wondering said:
If you ask me,,,this is a nice cop out for you.
I've noticed that calvinists come here ready to do battle and then just give up.
Click to expand...
lol -- good one.

wondering said:
You quote the beliefs of John Calvin all through your posts.
Who is HE that you should listen to anything he states?
Click to expand...
Actually, I've never read any book written by Calvin, nor attended any church that features his teaching. If you were to ask me what his doctrines are I don't think I would be able to answer with any precision.
However, it is possible that we have both come to the same conclusions on things spiritual because we both read the same Bible and we have learned the same spiritual lessons from it (they're pretty obvious biblically speaking).
If I've quoted Calvin (which I haven't) then it was 100% coincidental -- trust me on that.
I do not need Calvin's or anyone else's instruction for that matter - the Bible is abundantly
clear in-and-of itself, and thankfully, I am able to fathom most of what it teaches on my own.
How do you think I was able to supply all of the verses I did along with explanations, had I first needed to
consult with Calvin's writings ? I've come to understand the Bible messages on my own along with the verses that support it.
If I said otherwise, I'd be lying.

wondering said:
If you're trusting the bible alone...you're misunderstanding it since you post odd ideas that
are not part of mainline Christianity.
Click to expand...

Really? Which one's are "odd"? I ALWAYS supply supporting verses with conclusions and rational for any
point I try to make. And anyway, what make "mainline Christianity", the final arbiter of what is right and correct ?


wondering said:
For instance....we're being saved by our own faith.
Jesus was faithful to the Father,,,,but we must have our own faith in order to be saved.
You posted a verse that does not mean what you think it does...
Whatever happened to Ephesians 2:8 ??
Click to expand...

These ?

[Eph 2:7-10 KJV]
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in [his] kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

I could be wrong, but I don't think I used Eph 2:8 to justify that we are saved by Christ's faith (though we are). What I think I would have said was only that the "gift of God", is God. Please cut and paste my comment.
Wait - are you saying 2:8 confirms we're saved by our faith? I don't think so. Please see Gal 2:16:

[Gal 2:16 KJV] 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

But verse Eph 2:10 is pretty interesting in that regard, don't you think?

"BUT BY THE FAITH Of JESUS CHRIST, EVEN WE HAVE BELIEVED IN JESUS CHRIST" -- Christ's faith, not ours
That is, Christ gave His faith to the true believes.

How would you interpret Gal 2:16?
 
daninthelionsden said:
Are you saying you don't believe in the deity of Christ? It is the foundation of our faith.
Click to expand...
I didnt say anything about the Deity of Christ. You said that what JW said was outside of Chrisitianity and was another religion because it wasn't orthodox. I simply pointed out that much of what is taught today was not orthodox in the beginning. Orthodox just means the majority believes something. Thus, something being orthodox doesn't make it correct. His doctrine isn't another religion simply because it's not orthodox. If you disagree with his position lay out your argument and show where his position is wrong. Simply dismissing it because it's not the majority opinion is fallacious.
 
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daninthelionsden said:
All cults have the same thing in common and that is to try and tear down who Christ is. All Christians have one thing in common and that is Christ is God. I belonged to a cult myself. That's why I was the first one to identify you as Jehovah's witness. I know it when I see it because I was a cultist too and even worked as a de-programmer.
Click to expand...
You weren't the first. His name tells you who he is. He came here letting everyone know who he is. Many times people hide who are they. He should at least get credit for being upfront.
 
Butch5 said:
You weren't the first. His name tells you who he is. He came here letting everyone know who he is. Many times people hide who are they. He should at least get credit for being upfront.
Click to expand...
I asked him directly who he was and he did not answer directly. If you think he is upfront then you need to ask the Lord for discernment.
 
Butch5 said:
I didnt say anything about the Deity of Christ. You said that what JW said was outside of Chrisitianity and was another religion because it wasn't orthodox. I simply pointed out that much of what is taught today was not orthodox in the beginning. Orthodox just means the majority believes something. Thus, something being orthodox doesn't make it correct. His doctrine isn't another religion simply because it's not orthodox. If you disagree with his position lay out your argument and show where his position is wrong. Simply dismissing it because it's not the majority opinion is fallacious.
Click to expand...
He denies the deity of Christ, therefore, he is not Christian. That is indeed another religion.
 
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Butch5 said:
Hi Wondering,

Why are they a different religion? Don't they follow Christ?
Click to expand...
The Jehovah Witnesses do not follow Christ.
They follow Jehovah...the God of the Old Testament.
They don't believe Jesus is God.

In days past they stated that Jesus was an angel.
Then He became a prophet.
Now they say He's the son of God...but not the way Christians mean it.
They just mean that He's a special Son...
When we say Jesus is the Son of God...we mean that the Holy Spirit "fathered" Jesus...He does not have
an earthly father.
We say He is the only begotten Son of God.
Begotten, not made. Begotten means special, different, unique.
If Jesus were made...He would have been created and thus He couldn't be God.

There are a few beliefs necessary for one to be called a Christian.
One must believe that Jesus is God.
That He died and was resurrected.
That He is part of the Trinity....One God consisting of 3 persons, or natures.

A person can't believe in their favorite science, which might be physics, and yet be called an astronomer.
A person can't believe whatever they want to, against all Christian beliefs, and still be called a Christian.
 
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Butch5 said:
Don't JW's believe that Christ is a god? I believe they do. If so, then they adhere to the Deity of Christ.
Click to expand...
NO....and whatever they say is to confuse a person.
They believe that John 1:1 states that Jesus is a god...as you've written.
We believe Jesus IS GOD with a capital G.

I started the thread on the existence of hell.
It's in bible study and you should be getting an alert from me.
 
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wondering said:
The Jehovah Witnesses do not follow Christ.
They follow Jehovah...the God of the Old Testament.
They don't believe Jesus is God.

In days past they stated that Jesus was an angel.
Then He became a prophet.
Now they say He's the son of God...but not the way Christians mean it.
They just mean that He's a special Son...
When we say Jesus is the Son of God...we mean that the Holy Spirit "fathered" Jesus...He does not have
an earthly father.
We say He is the only begotten Son of God.
Begotten, not made. Begotten means special, different, unique.
If Jesus were made...He would have been created and thus He couldn't be God.

There are a few beliefs necessary for one to be called a Christian.
One must believe that Jesus is God.
That He died and was resurrected.
That He is part of the Trinity....One God consisting of 3 persons, or natures.

A person can't believe in their favorite science, which might be physics, and yet be called an astronomer.
A person can't believe whatever they want to, against all Christian beliefs, and still be called a Christian.
Click to expand...
Hi Wondering,

I bolded two parts of your post above. You said they believe He's a special Son. Then you said We say He is begotten which means special. How is that not the same thing?

Can you show me where Scripture says that one must believe that Jesus is part of a Trinity which is one God consisting of three persons? I'm pretty familiar with Scripture and I don't remember seeing anything like that. From what I see the primary thing that needed to be believed, according to Jesus and the apostles, what that Jesus was the Christ.

We really should start a different thread for this. A discussion of the Trinity will surely get this tread derailed and shut down.
 
wondering said:
NO....and whatever they say is to confuse a person.
They believe that John 1:1 states that Jesus is a god...as you've written.
We believe Jesus IS GOD with a capital G.

I started the thread on the existence of hell.
It's in bible study and you should be getting an alert from me.
Click to expand...
Just for clarification what is the difference between God and god?
 
Butch5 said:
Don't JW's believe that Christ is a god? I believe they do. If so, then they adhere to the Deity of Christ.
Click to expand...
Jehovah's Witnesses identify as Christians, but their beliefs are different from other Christians in some ways. For instance, they teach that Jesus is the son of God but is not part of a Trinity.

The Witnesses have their own translation of the Bible - the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures. The New World Translation is unique in one thing – it is the first intentional, systematic effort at producing a complete version of the Bible that is edited and revised for the specific purpose of agreeing with a group’s doctrine. The “New World Bible Translation Committee” went through the Bible and changed any Scripture that did not agree with Jehovah’s Witness theology.
s biblical Christians continued to point out Scriptures that clearly argue for the deity of Christ (for example), the Watchtower Society would publish new editions of the New World Translation with those Scriptures changed.
The most well-known of all the New World Translation perversions is John 1:1. The original Greek text reads, “the Word was God.” The NWT renders it as “the word was a god.”
www.gotquestions.org

Is the New World Translation a valid version of the Bible? | GotQuestions.org

Is the New World Translation a valid version of the Bible? Did the Jehovah’s Witnessess intentionally alter the Bible to create the New World Translation?
www.gotquestions.org
 
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Fastfredy0 said:
Jehovah's Witnesses identify as Christians, but their beliefs are different from other Christians in some ways. For instance, they teach that Jesus is the son of God but is not part of a Trinity.

The Witnesses have their own translation of the Bible - the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures. The New World Translation is unique in one thing – it is the first intentional, systematic effort at producing a complete version of the Bible that is edited and revised for the specific purpose of agreeing with a group’s doctrine. The “New World Bible Translation Committee” went through the Bible and changed any Scripture that did not agree with Jehovah’s Witness theology.
s biblical Christians continued to point out Scriptures that clearly argue for the deity of Christ (for example), the Watchtower Society would publish new editions of the New World Translation with those Scriptures changed.
The most well-known of all the New World Translation perversions is John 1:1. The original Greek text reads, “the Word was God.” The NWT renders it as “the word was a god.”
www.gotquestions.org

Is the New World Translation a valid version of the Bible? | GotQuestions.org

Is the New World Translation a valid version of the Bible? Did the Jehovah’s Witnessess intentionally alter the Bible to create the New World Translation?
www.gotquestions.org
Click to expand...
Hi Fredy,

Thanks for this. I am aware of what they believe. My point was to question the argument, they're not orthodox, therefore they're wrong. Using that line of reasoning one could show that most of the modern major Christians doctrines are wrong. The idea of an immortal soul was not orthodox in the early church. The Heavenly Destiny doctrine was not orthodox in the early church, etc. If not being orthodox means one isn't a Christian, what does that say for modern Christianity?

I would also ask if most translators don't do the same with their translations. Try to get onto a translation board if you don't hold the Trinity doctrine. It's not likely. Thus, the doctrine gets cemented into the translation. That's why I told JW to make his argument. His argument will show whether he is right or wrong.
 
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