Tasted Death for every Man !

[Hopeful 2]

No Im not. Man by nature has no spiritual life, he is dead to God, dead in sin.

Perhaps that is why we must "repent" of sin first !

 

[brightfame52]

If only you could see it from the other direction.
All He brings to glory, He has tasted death for.
That doesn't mean He hasn't tasted death for many others who refused His gift.
The ones still alive can still change their minds.

I believe Jesus tasted death for all men, 2000 years ago.
Only about .0001% of those men, will profit from it.
But the gift was available to all of them.

You believe a lie, Christ tasted death for them He brings to Glory. Heb 2:9-10

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

 

[brightfame52]

The "dead" can do what God requires of them to be made alive.
All men have the freedom to choose which road they will travel.

Lol, the dead cant do anything, they dead.

 

[brightfame52]

Perhaps that is why we must "repent" of sin first !

A dead man cant repent, he dead. Repentance is a activity of life

 

[rogerg]

If a man turns from, whatever, and turns to God, doesn't he automatically turn from sin too?
How can one turn to God without turning from wickedness?

Wickedness is, at its most fundamental level, a trust in our works, and the preaching of works to others
to justify ourselves for salvation, instead of solely by Christ. So, unless someone turns to Christ through the Holy Spirit, they are not turning from wickedness or sin. However, no one turns to Christ unless given them to do so by God as a gift.

If it is a lie, then there is sin in Christ, and in His Father. (1 John 1:5)
It is not a lie.

I don't understand your point.

As salvation can't be assured until the day of judgement, your point is a straw man.

Not according to the Bible.

Thanks for your definition of spiritual sin, but aren't murder, adultery, and thievery spiritual sins too?
Man acts upon the spirit within himself.
Muderers and liars don't have the Spirit of God in them.

No. Those are sins, but not spiritual sin. Spiritual sin is being under the law of sin and death, which is manifested in not trusting Christ as Saviour but instead trusting in our works. The following are the laws governing spiritual sin: the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus, which brings forth eternal life; the law of sin and death which brings forth (from our works), eternal death. Everyone is born under the law of sin and death until saved. Again, we are saved by Christ's righteousness, not by our righteousness - His righteousness is imputed to those who become saved. Being that we are saved by Christ's righteousness and not our own, there is therefore nothing within our power we can do to obtain it - it is only given as a gift by God.

Rom 8:2 KJV] 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.


Do you think kind David was saved? Are you familiar with the story of Bathsheba and how David had her husband killed because he wanted her? Do you think David was unsaved and that he didn't have the Holy Spirit? David, though the Holy Spirit contributed much to the Old Testament. So, he most definitely was saved. Did God punish him for that sin? Absolutely yes, but it was punishment within the earthly realm, not in the spiritual realm. Likewise, with those who are saved and yet commit earthly sins - God punishes them and in ways most unpleasant and increases that unpleasantness until they cease. Nevertheless, they remain saved. Now, I definitely am not encouraging the committing of earthly sin - God gave earthly, moral laws because He wanted them followed, especially by Christians, but neither does failure nor falling short affect one's salvation. As Christians, we are to bring honor and glory to God, Christ, and His gospel through our actions and to show forth God in us in our lives.

[Heb 12:8 KJV] 8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

The only thing accomplished with that definition of repentance is continued sin.

That depends upon what you perceive sin to be. If you believe that by your actions, you become free
from sin, and therefore, you expect those actions to bring salvation to you, you are in effect trying to purchase salvation by not committing them, (even though, in reality, to not commit the true sins are completely out of our reach until, unless, and by, being saved), but salvation cannot be purchased at any price, by man's actions.

Do you want to go back now and remove your "That is a lie." comment ?

Huh? No, not at all! You didn't read that verse closely enough. Did you see the "born of God" part? Being born "OF God" means to become born "BY/FROM God". It doesn't say being born "of man" nor "being born of ourselves", but "of God". It is referring to spiritual sin, not earthly sin. As such, they no longer sin BECAUSE being born-again, they have come to trust in Christ alone as Saviour. For that to have occurred, the blood of Christ was imputed to them, and all spiritual sin forgiven, and they placed under the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus by God. To not trust Christ as Saviour, is spiritual sin.

So much for the idea of free choice...eh?
I can't agree with you.

For a spiritually dead person, there is no "free choice" - they therefore cannot choose, even if they think they can.

[2Co 4:3-4 KJV]
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

[Eph 2:1 KJV] 1 And you [hath he quickened], who were dead in trespasses and sins;

[Col 2:13 KJV] 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Your reply seems to think the day of judgement has already occurred.

No, I do not think the day of judgment as arrived, however, I do think those whom God chose to escape that judgment
He determined from before the foundation of the world. That is, in order for God's grace and mercy to be possible they had to be based upon His election of certain people, otherwise it would be of our works, not of mercy and grace.

Before I was converted, I knew my deeds were evil.
Everyman is born with a conscience of good and evil.
What I did not have was the knowledge of, or ability to, remain free from sin.
After turning from sin, (repenting of sin), and being crucified with Christ, (Rom 6:3-7, Gal 5:24), and being raised with Christ to walk in newness of life, (Rom 6:4), and receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost, (Acts 2:38), I had all of that and more.

No, no man is born with a spiritual conscience or awareness of good and evil - at least not in the spiritual sense. And if you think that you remain free from sin, and especially free from spiritual sin, you delude yourself. In considering Acts 2:38, did you also consider Acts 13:48? Only those ORDAINED to eternal life, can/do truly believe, those who weren't ordained, don't. In other words, true belief follows as a result of receiving eternal life.

[Act 13:48 KJV] 48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

 

[Hopeful 2]

You believe a lie, Christ tasted death for them He brings to Glory. Heb 2:9-10

Yes, He did.
I wish all would choose to join us in that eventual glory.
Do you think that God has done something to prevent the rejecters from joining us?

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Lol, the dead cant do anything, they dead.

The dead in trespasses and sins, can do something.
It is written..."And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;" (Col 2:13)
The physically dead can't do anything...but wait.

 

[Hopeful 2]

A dead man cant repent, he dead. Repentance is a activity of life

A physically dead man can't repent.
A man dead in trespasses and sin can turn from sin.
John wrote..."Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:" (John 11:25)

 

[Hopeful 2]

Wickedness is, at its most fundamental level, a trust in our works, and the preaching of works to others
to justify ourselves for salvation, instead of solely by Christ. So, unless someone turns to Christ through the Holy Spirit, they are not turning from wickedness or sin. However, no one turns to Christ unless given them to do so by God as a gift.


I don't understand your point.



Not according to the Bible.



No. Those are sins, but not spiritual sin. Spiritual sin is being under the law of sin and death, which is manifested in not trusting Christ as Saviour but instead trusting in our works. The following are the laws governing spiritual sin: the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus, which brings forth eternal life; the law of sin and death which brings forth (from our works), eternal death. Everyone is born under the law of sin and death until saved. Again, we are saved by Christ's righteousness, not by our righteousness - His righteousness is imputed to those who become saved. Being that we are saved by Christ's righteousness and not our own, there is therefore nothing within our power we can do to obtain it - it is only given as a gift by God.

Rom 8:2 KJV] 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.


Do you think kind David was saved? Are you familiar with the story of Bathsheba and how David had her husband killed because he wanted her? Do you think David was unsaved and that he didn't have the Holy Spirit? David, though the Holy Spirit contributed much to the Old Testament. So, he most definitely was saved. Did God punish him for that sin? Absolutely yes, but it was punishment within the earthly realm, not in the spiritual realm. Likewise, with those who are saved and yet commit earthly sins - God punishes them and in ways most unpleasant and increases that unpleasantness until they cease. Nevertheless, they remain saved. Now, I definitely am not encouraging the committing of earthly sin - God gave earthly, moral laws because He wanted them followed, especially by Christians, but neither does failure nor falling short affect one's salvation. As Christians, we are to bring honor and glory to God, Christ, and His gospel through our actions and to show forth God in us in our lives.

[Heb 12:8 KJV] 8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.



That depends upon what you perceive sin to be. If you believe that by your actions, you become free
from sin, and therefore, you expect those actions to bring salvation to you, you are in effect trying to purchase salvation by not committing them, (even though, in reality, to not commit the true sins are completely out of our reach until, unless, and by, being saved), but salvation cannot be purchased at any price, by man's actions.


Huh? No, not at all! You didn't read that verse closely enough. Did you see the "born of God" part? Being born "OF God" means to become born "BY/FROM God". It doesn't say being born "of man" nor "being born of ourselves", but "of God". It is referring to spiritual sin, not earthly sin. As such, they no longer sin BECAUSE being born-again, they have come to trust in Christ alone as Saviour. For that to have occurred, the blood of Christ was imputed to them, and all spiritual sin forgiven, and they placed under the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus by God. To not trust Christ as Saviour, is spiritual sin.



For a spiritually dead person, there is no "free choice" - they therefore cannot choose, even if they think they can.

[2Co 4:3-4 KJV]
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

[Eph 2:1 KJV] 1 And you [hath he quickened], who were dead in trespasses and sins;

[Col 2:13 KJV] 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;



No, I do not think the day of judgment as arrived, however, I do think those whom God chose to escape that judgment
He determined from before the foundation of the world. That is, in order for God's grace and mercy to be possible they had to be based upon His election of certain people, otherwise it would be of our works, not of mercy and grace.



No, no man is born with a spiritual conscience or awareness of good and evil - at least not in the spiritual sense. And if you think that you remain free from sin, and especially free from spiritual sin, you delude yourself. In considering Acts 2:38, did you also consider Acts 13:48? Only those ORDAINED to eternal life, can/do truly believe, those who weren't ordained, don't. In other words, true belief follows as a result of receiving eternal life.

[Act 13:48 KJV] 48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

Those that think they can turn to God without turning from wickedness are deceived.

 

[brightfame52]

Yes, He did.
I wish all would choose to join us in that eventual glory.
Do you think that God has done something to prevent the rejecters from joining us?

I dont know what you talking about. When Christ brings one to glory by tasting death for them, they stop rejecting Him, that is what happens when Christ tastes death for someone, they are changed from unbelievers to believers !

 

[brightfame52]

The dead in trespasses and sins, can do something.
It is written..."And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;" (Col 2:13)
The physically dead can't do anything...but wait.

The dead cant do anything, they dead !

 

[brightfame52]

A physically dead man can't repent.
A man dead in trespasses and sin can turn from sin.
John wrote..."Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:" (John 11:25)

A person dead to God cant do anything, they dead.

 

[rogerg]

Those that think they can turn to God without turning from wickedness are deceived.

And those who think they can, know neither God, His salvation, nor their sin.

 

[Hopeful 2]

I dont know what you talking about. When Christ brings one to glory by tasting death for them, they stop rejecting Him, that is what happens when Christ tastes death for someone, they are changed from unbelievers to believers !

I guess Hitler, Mao, and Putin didn't get the memo.
They had the chance to convert but rejected it.

 

[Hopeful 2]

The dead cant do anything, they dead !

You must start to differentiate between spiritually dead and physically dead.
The spiritually dead are doing plenty, even occasionally repenting of sin and being washed of them by the blood of Christ at baptism.

 

[Hopeful 2]

A person dead to God cant do anything, they dead.

I was once dead to God.
But not any more.
Have you been alive to God since birth ?
Besides Jesus, and John the Baptist, I don't know of any others.

 

[Hopeful 2]

And those who think they can, know neither God, His salvation, nor their sin.

Can you rephrase that ?
Thanks.

 

[rogerg]

Can you rephrase that ?
Thanks.

Sure, no problem. Think your post, then factor my reply on it - that is; anyone who believes salvation is
anything but a full and complete gift in all aspects and respects, given by God through Christ, solely by His mercy and grace, with no preconditions whatsoever imposed upon its recipients other than He chose them individually, but instead believe they must purify themselves or earn it first, understand neither God, His salvation, nor their sin.
That help? If not, I can clarify further.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Sure, no problem. Think your post, then factor my reply on it - that is; anyone who believes salvation is
anything but a full and complete gift in all aspects and respects, given by God through Christ, solely by His mercy and grace, with no preconditions whatsoever imposed upon its recipients other than He chose them individually, but instead believe they must purify themselves or earn it first, understand neither God, His salvation, nor their sin.
That help? If not, I can clarify further.

You "left the rails" when you took away the conditions.
Here are a few of them.
Repentance from sin.
Belief.
Faith, hope, and charity.
Water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins.
Enduring faithfully until the end.

 

[brightfame52]

I guess Hitler, Mao, and Putin didn't get the memo.
They had the chance to convert but rejected it.

I dont know what you talking about !