Tasted Death for every Man !

[rogerg]

I MUST hear and obey.
Circumcision, and dietary rules, etc. don't matter anymore.

Then you remain under law, not mercy and grace. Christ's offering saves to the uttermost not partially.

[Heb 10:29 KJV] 29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

[Heb 7:25 KJV] 25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

 

[rogerg]

I MUST hear and obey.
Circumcision, and dietary rules, etc. don't matter anymore.

I just want to make sure you realize that regarding salvation, Christ takes those He saves from under THE law(singular), He does not take them from under certain laws.

[Rom 3:19-21 KJV]
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law [is] the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

 

[Hopeful 2]

It doesnt matter what you feel, the ones Christ died for, tasted death for shall be brought to Glory Heb 2:9-10

This is true, but many for whom He tasted death will not submit to Him in conversion.

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

Let me ask you a question, if I may...
Are all your relatives converted to Christianity?
If one or two are not, do you really think the door is closed to any future conversion?

None of my relatives are Christians, but I pray for their conversion everyday.
Am I wasting my time?

 

[Hopeful 2]

Missionary work is most necessary for the sake of the elect, for the Gospel of their Salvation is sent to them first and foremost, hence Paul the Missionary wrote 2 Tim 2:10

If missionary work is still necessary for the converting of the elect, then who gets elected is still up in the air.
I thank God for presenting the truth to me, so I could elect to partake of it.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Then you remain under law, not mercy and grace. Christ's offering saves to the uttermost not partially.

They are already saved, if Calvin is right.
I could kill, and steal, and it wouldn't make any difference at my judgement.
Those that don't obey God will not find their names in the book of life.
You are fostering a false version of Christianity.
One that is tolerant of and and accommodating to sin.

[Heb 10:29 KJV] 29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Isn't that referring to the disobedient?
Yes, it is.

[Heb 7:25 KJV] 25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

Even the scripture you site says "we must come to Him".

 

[brightfame52]

This is true, but many for whom He tasted death will not submit to Him in conversion.

Let me ask you a question, if I may...
Are all your relatives converted to Christianity?
If one or two are not, do you really think the door is closed to any future conversion?

None of my relatives are Christians, but I pray for their conversion everyday.
Am I wasting my time?

Thats off topic, however if our relatives be of those whom Christ tasted death for, they will be brought to Glory Heb 2:9-10

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

 

[brightfame52]

If missionary work is still necessary for the converting of the elect, then who gets elected is still up in the air.
I thank God for presenting the truth to me, so I could elect to partake of it.

Huh ? I dont know what you talking about

 

[Hopeful 2]

I just want to make sure you realize that regarding salvation, Christ takes those He saves from under THE law(singular), He does not take them from under certain laws.

[Rom 3:19-21 KJV]
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law [is] the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

I do agree with that.
But the converted will have the big two written on their new hearts.
1. Love God with all your heart, soul, power, and might.
2. Love your neighbor as you love yourself.
Those who don't have those 2 things being manifested in and by them, are not converts.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Thats off topic, however if our relatives be of those whom Christ tasted death for, they will be brought to Glory Heb 2:9-10

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

As the scripture says He tasted death for "every man", it is on us to accept His sacrifice for us.
We can also refuse it.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Huh ? I dont know what you talking about

If the gospel isn't given to them, they won't get the message.
The message is, Jesus died for their sins.
But that suffering and death will be for naught on their account, if they reject it.

 

[Randy]

If the gospel isn't given to them, they won't get the message.
The message is, Jesus died for their sins.
But that suffering and death will be for naught on their account, if they reject it.

They will never listen to you. But I read "might" taste death for "everyone". So the possibility of inclusion is stated to everyone.

But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

 

[rogerg]

They are already saved, if Calvin is right.
I could kill, and steal, and it wouldn't make any difference at my judgement.
Those that don't obey God will not find their names in the book of life.
You are fostering a false version of Christianity.
One that is tolerant of and and accommodating to sin.

So, you're saying then that Christ's offering was insufficient in and of itself for salvation and that He really doesn't save to the uttermost, as we are told that He does?
And by that it must follow that He isn't the Saviour after all?
Did you ever read about king David, or Saul (Paul)?
Were they not forgiven? Do you realize that people are saved not by what they may do or may not do, but
by what Christ did, and that His righteousness is imputed to those whom He chose?
Do you think that someone saved has never killed anyone (using your example)?
Does that make it good? No. But neither does it remove their salvation.
You do not understand the difference between carnal earthly law and eternal law - God's law.
It is you who fosters a false Christianity - one having no Saviour within it. You should be honest and take the "Christ" out of Christianity and instead make it Manity because that's what you base it upon: man's works/achievements of righteousness, not Christ's.

You probably won't be able to correctly comprehend these verses, but for the record, I'll post them anyway.

[Jas 1:25 KJV]
25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth [therein], he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

[Jas 2:12 KJV]
12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

The "law of liberty" is NOT the law of works. It is the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus - that being the law by which everyone will be judged.

Isn't that referring to the disobedient?
Yes, it is.

This is disobedience: those with a knowledge of the Saviour and of His salvation, such as yourself, and yet, who set Him, and it, at naught. You're obviously oblivious to, and cannot comprehend, the part of the verse that say:
"and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Do not you see the "blood of the covenant" and "Spirit of grace", parts? Those are what brought salvation to fruition, not our works.

Even the scripture you site says "we must come to Him".

What verse(s)?

Your problem, at least for now, is that you just are simply incapable of truly comprehending Jesus Christ and the magnitude His salvation. You remain blind to it, and as the Bible tells us, no one can be reasoned into it, and you are a prime example/demonstration of that - it only comes as a change to one's spirit.

[Eze 36:26 KJV] 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

 

[rogerg]

I do agree with that.
But the converted will have the big two written on their new hearts.
1. Love God with all your heart, soul, power, and might.
2. Love your neighbor as you love yourself.
Those who don't have those 2 things being manifested in and by them, are not converts.

Wait - but you believe/trust in the works of law and in the keeping of the law for salvation, and not in God's mercy and grace, right? So, if those things are only of those "converted" and the traits "manifested" as you say they are, then how are they "manifested" and how did they become "converted"? From whence do those come? By what power or at who's discretion and command? Who writes them upon the heart, as the recipient cannot do so of themselves? So, if not given by a higher power first to some, then somehow, they must already exist within them to have a desire for them, otherwise, why would they - IOW they would already have to have them in order to know to desire them. But, if they do have them, then why would they first need to be converted and the traits manifested?
You've implied that conversion/manifestation precedes result and they being of man, right? By that, I think you imposed upon yourself a fundamental unresolvable logical dilemma and thereby disprove your own beliefs.

 

[brightfame52]

As the scripture says He tasted death for "every man", it is on us to accept His sacrifice for us.
We can also refuse it.

Thats error. Those for whom Christ tasted death for, He brings them to Glory Heb 2:9-10

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

Those He tasted death for, He by that became the Captain of their Salvation.

 

[brightfame52]

If the gospel isn't given to them, they won't get the message.
The message is, Jesus died for their sins.
But that suffering and death will be for naught on their account, if they reject it.

Them who Christ tasted death for, every one of them, shall be brought to Glory Heb 2:9-10

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

 

[rogerg]

I do agree with that.
But the converted will have the big two written on their new hearts.
1. Love God with all your heart, soul, power, and might.
2. Love your neighbor as you love yourself.
Those who don't have those 2 things being manifested in and by them, are not converts.

So, to add a conclusion (which I should have included my prior post to bring it all together), the points you raise above necessitate that God take all actions required to bring it to pass - man cannot: one's conversion along with the associated manifestations of it are far beyond man's ability to give to himself. So, whether or not you realize it, in effect, in including "manifested in them", your post is actually saying that it can only be given by God.

 

[Hopeful 2]

So, you're saying then that Christ's offering was insufficient in and of itself for salvation and that He really doesn't save to the uttermost, as we are told that He does?

Not at all.
We have free choice to follow or take our own course in life.
We cannot be forced to love God.

And by that it must follow that He isn't the Saviour after all?

Jesus is not the Savior of those who hate Him.
Jesus said..."No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other.", and He said the "Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin".
Sinners hate God.

Did you ever read about king David, or Saul (Paul)?
Were they not forgiven?

David was forgiven, but paid a hefty price, in the OT.
Paul was forgiven too, in the NT, but by different means.
He was baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of his sins. (Acts 22:16)

Do you realize that people are saved not by what they may do or may not do, but
by what Christ did, and that His righteousness is imputed to those whom He chose?

Both David and Paul "did things" for their forgiveness.
David had the Law's atonements and Paul got baptized.

Do you think that someone saved has never killed anyone (using your example)?

If they obey Peter's commands from Acts 2:38, and endure faithfully until the end...the will find their name in the book of life.

Does that make it good? No. But neither does it remove their salvation.

I'm not sure what "that" refers to?
Does baptism's remission of sins "make it good"?
Yes, it does.

You do not understand the difference between carnal earthly law and eternal law - God's law.

I understand that most of man's laws are based on God's laws.
(Though that is getting less all the time.)

It is you who fosters a false Christianity - one having no Saviour within it. You should be honest and take the "Christ" out of Christianity and instead make it Manity because that's what you base it upon: man's works/achievements of righteousness, not Christ's.

Obedience and love must have a receptor.
His name is God the Almighty.
Without obedience and love, there is only anarchy.

You probably won't be able to correctly comprehend these verses, but for the record, I'll post them anyway.
[Jas 1:25 KJV]
25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth [therein], he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

Continueth, and doer; things done by the faithful.

[Jas 2:12 KJV]
12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
The "law of liberty" is NOT the law of works. It is the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus - that being the law by which everyone will be judged.

I agree, they are different.
But the "law of liberty" can be accomplished since we have been enabled to walk in the Spirit.
The Law of Moses was impossible to accomplish, since men still walking in the flesh were trying to adhere to it.

This is disobedience: those with a knowledge of the Saviour and of His salvation, such as yourself, and yet, who set Him, and it, at naught. You're obviously oblivious to, and cannot comprehend, the part of the verse that say:
"and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

It is indeed the sinners who count the blood as unholy.
I'm glad we don't have to sin anymore, thanks be to God.

Do not you see the "blood of the covenant" and "Spirit of grace", parts? Those are what brought salvation to fruition, not our works.

Salvation will be "brought to fruition on the day of judgement.
Our behavior will be used to determine where we end up.

What verse(s)?

Hebrews 7:25.

Your problem, at least for now, is that you just are simply incapable of truly comprehending Jesus Christ and the magnitude His salvation. You remain blind to it, and as the Bible tells us, no one can be reasoned into it, and you are a prime example/demonstration of that - it only comes as a change to one's spirit.
[Eze 36:26 KJV] 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

We don't get a new spirit without doing something in response to God and His Son's wonderful love.
Repenting of sin and the washing of past sins by the blood of Christ, for instance.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Wait - but you believe/trust in the works of law and in the keeping of the law for salvation, and not in God's mercy and grace, right?

Wrong.
I am a NT believer who does not need circumcision or dietary rules to make me salvable.

So, if those things are only of those "converted" and the traits "manifested" as you say they are, then how are they "manifested" and how did they become "converted"?

Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
A man told me I could live without sinning and I believed him.
I was water baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of my past sins.
I received the gift of the Holy Ghost some days later.
That is conversion.
Those who will not do those things will not be lovers of or obedient to Jesus or His Father.

From whence do those come?

Love and obedience come by the power of God.

By what power or at who's discretion and command?

God's gifts to those who love and obey Him.

Who writes them upon the heart, as the recipient cannot do so of themselves?

God does.

So, if not given by a higher power first to some, then somehow, they must already exist within them to have a desire for them, otherwise, why would they -

All men are born with a conscience.
All men know when they sin.

IOW they would already have to have them in order to know to desire them. But, if they do have them, then why would they first need to be converted and the traits manifested?

Without a true conversion, man can't live without offending their conscience.
The unconverted still walk in the flesh instead of in the Spirit.

You've implied that conversion/manifestation precedes result and they being of man, right?

God in man get's the results.
Like Paul wrote in Gal 2:20..."I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me."
Conversion facilitates results.

By that, I think you imposed upon yourself a fundamental unresolvable logical dilemma and thereby disprove your own beliefs.

I guess it depends on what "results" you refer to.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Thats error. Those for whom Christ tasted death for, He brings them to Glory Heb 2:9-10

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

Those He tasted death for, He by that became the Captain of their Salvation.

I can't help you read it correctly.
Jesus tasted death for everyone who will ever live since His resurrection from the dead.
But it will only profit those who will love and obey Him.

 

[brightfame52]

I can't help you read it correctly.
Jesus tasted death for everyone who will ever live since His resurrection from the dead.
But it will only profit those who will love and obey Him.

Error, Christ tasted death for them He brings to Glory Heb 2:9-10

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

The people who never make it to Glory, He didn't taste death for. If you say He did, but they didnt make it to Glory, then that exposes what you believe, that you dont believe Christs death alone ensures eternal salvation, and that you condition eternal salvation on the doings of men, and make Christs death ineffectual and of no saving profit.