Tasted Death for every Man !

[brightfame52]

You must start to differentiate between spiritually dead and physically dead.
The spiritually dead are doing plenty, even occasionally repenting of sin and being washed of them by the blood of Christ at baptism.

The spiritually dead cant do anything spiritually, they dead.

 

[brightfame52]

I was once dead to God.
But not any more.
Have you been alive to God since birth ?
Besides Jesus, and John the Baptist, I don't know of any others.

It doesnt matter, the spiritually dead cant do anything spiritually because they dead, have no life. Its the same as when one is physically dead, they cant do anything physically because they physically dead. Got it ?

 

[rogerg]

You "left the rails" when you took away the conditions.
Here are a few of them.
Repentance from sin.
Belief.
Faith, hope, and charity.
Water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins.
Enduring faithfully until the end.

Nope, none of the things you posted matters at all in terms of becoming saved. In fact, if the doing of them is trusted to bring salvation, they are worse than not mattering, they are sin. The only requirement that matters is of God's choosing of someone for salvation. All Christian attributes, traits, and actions start by and come from being saved and born again, they do not and cannot lead anyone to salvation - that is why Christ has the title Saviour and man does not. Those chosen are but the recipients of it.
Are you a Bible believing Christain? If so, then explain what you think Saviour and Christian mean?

 

[Hopeful 2]

I dont know what you talking about !

God does not force anyone to repent of sin.
But those who want to, are allowed to.
Thanks be to God.

 

[Hopeful 2]

It doesnt matter, the spiritually dead cant do anything spiritually because they dead, have no life. Its the same as when one is physically dead, they cant do anything physically because they physically dead. Got it ?

Were that true, there would be no converts or conversions.
There would be no "Acts of the Apostles".

 

[Hopeful 2]

Nope, none of the things you posted matters at all in terms of becoming saved.

They mattered to Peter in Acts 2:38..."Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
And to Paul in Acts 22:16..."And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord."

In fact, if the doing of them is trusted to bring salvation, they are worse than not mattering, they are sin.

So Peter and Paul were committing sin in the above examples ?
LOL

The only requirement that matters is of God's choosing of someone for salvation. All Christian attributes, traits, and actions start by and come from being saved and born again, they do not and cannot lead anyone to salvation - that is why Christ has the title Saviour and man does not. Those chosen are but the recipients of it.
Are you a Bible believing Christain? If so, then explain what you think Saviour and Christian mean?

Will those who committing sin be saved on the last day?

 

[brightfame52]

God does not force anyone to repent of sin.
But those who want to, are allowed to.
Thanks be to God.

I still dont know what you talking about. The ones Jesus tasted death for, He brings them to Glory Heb 2:9-10

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

 

[brightfame52]

Were that true, there would be no converts or conversions.
There would be no "Acts of the Apostles".

I dont know what you talking about. Man by nature is dead to God, dead in sin, not able to do anything spiritually without spiritual life.

 

[rogerg]

They mattered to Peter in Acts 2:38..."Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
And to Paul in Acts 22:16..."And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord."

No. It is only because they were of those who had been ORDAINED to eternal life (see Acts 13:48). Because they were of the ordained, they became saved, and thereby, they exhibited the traits and characteristics of true Christians. Not the reverse

[Act 13:48 KJV] 48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

So Peter and Paul were committing sin in the above examples ?
LOL

They were of those ordained to eternal life. They did so not to become saved, but because they were saved.

[Act 22:14 KJV] 14 And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.

Will those who committing sin be saved on the last day?

Only those saved - those who have been justified by Christ - will be saved on the last day.
They will all be sinners and none of them will be sinners.

You didn't answer my question: what you think it means - and as the Bible so tells us - that Christ alone is the Saviour.

 

[Hopeful 2]

I still dont know what you talking about. The ones Jesus tasted death for, He brings them to Glory Heb 2:9-10

Some of them, to be sure.

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

 

[Hopeful 2]

I dont know what you talking about. Man by nature is dead to God, dead in sin, not able to do anything spiritually without spiritual life.

Some rise above their nature.
After which, they can be reborn with a new nature.

 

[Hopeful 2]

No. It is only because they were of those who had been ORDAINED to eternal life (see Acts 13:48). Because they were of the ordained, they became saved, and thereby, they exhibited the traits and characteristics of true Christians. Not the reverse
[Act 13:48 KJV] 48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
They were of those ordained to eternal life. They did so not to become saved, but because they were saved.
[Act 22:14 KJV] 14 And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.

It was hard for Paul to keep fighting what he deep down knew was right.
Jesus said..."And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks." (Acts 9:5)

Only those saved - those who have been justified by Christ - will be saved on the last day.]

Agreed.

They will all be sinners and none of them will be sinners.

They will all be ex-sinners.

You didn't answer my question: what you think it means - and as the Bible so tells us - that Christ alone is the Saviour.

Jesus is the one who died to take away the sins of the world. (1 John 2:2)
If we submit to Him, He is our Savior.

 

[rogerg]

It was hard for Paul to keep fighting what he deep down knew was right.
Jesus said..."And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks." (Acts 9:5)

Saul could only know "deep down" after he had become saved. Spiritual knowledge comes from salvation,
it is not to salvation.

They will all be ex-sinners.

No. Only insofar as it was reckoned to us through Christ to no longer be under the law. Without law, there can be no sin, and that, through Christ. Of ourselves, all are sinners.

[Gal 4:5 KJV] 5
To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

[1Co 15:56-57 KJV]
56 The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
57 But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

[Rom 5:13 KJV] 1
3 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

esus is the one who died to take away the sins of the world. (1 John 2:2)
If we submit to Him, He is our Savior.

The "world" is the world to come, not this current world. This current world is to be destroyed.
Were there anything a prerequisite to Christ's saving (besides that God had chosen its recipients to it), which man must contribute to get it, then Christ wouldn't be the Saviour, man would be.
For the Saviour to be the Saviour, then He alone must be the one who saves, from beginning to end
with no other contribution to it possible nor permitted.

I'll ask you again in a different way, define the role of the Saviour as you perceive it.

 

[brightfame52]

Some of them, to be sure.

No not some of them, all whom He tasted death for, He became the Captain of their Salvation and brings them to Glory Heb 2:9-10

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

 

[brightfame52]

Some rise above their nature.
After which, they can be reborn with a new nature.

None can be alive to God except by new creation or resurrection. I hope you dont think man raises himself from the dead, or that he creates himself !

 

[Kermos]

You "left the rails" when you took away the conditions.
Here are a few of them.

The conditions that you mentioned sound very much like fruit of the Holy Spirit of Almighty God.

Repentance from sin.

Let's look for the Scriptural answers to these three questions.

• What is repentance?
• Who controls repentance?
• How does a person repent?

Our first step is to visit the linguistic definition.

Let us dig into the word "repent" which means "think differently afterwards". After we believers are born from above by the Holy Spirit (John 3:3), and in like manner given the mind of Christ (1 Corinthians 2:16). The Greek word metanoeó is the English word "repent" in Matthew 4:17. Let us obtain the definition of "repent".

Repent: think differently afterwards

metanoéō (from 3326 /metá, "changed after being with" and 3539 /noiéō, "think") – properly, "think differently after," "after a change of mind"; to repent (literally, "think differently afterwards")
(def from 3340. metanoeó HELPS Word-studies section).
​

The word "repent" does not mean "I change my mind" as asserted by too many people. Try reciting the words of Lord Jesus, where He is commanding the people in Matthew 4:17, except, first, replace the word "repent" with "I change my mind", then, second, replace the word "repent" with "think differently afterwards". God does not change (Malachi 3:6), so this One True God Jesus commands repent.

Godly sorrow brings "thinking differently afterward" leading to salvation (2 Corinthians 7:10), so God's power generates this sorrow within believers hence God calls it "Godly sorrow" thus illuminating and magnifying sin (Romans 5:20).

FIRST BIBLICAL CiTATION FOR REPENTANCE - A DEEP EXAMINATION

Here is the Christian teaching of 2 Corinthians 7:8-10. The passage (from the NASB which explicitly states that the NASB translators add bracketed words for clarity - so I have no problem removing the bracketed words from the NASB - but this is verbatim from the NASB):

8 For though I caused you sorrow by my letter, I do not regret it; though I did regret it - [for] I see that that letter caused you sorrow, though only for a while -
9 I now rejoice, not that you were made sorrowful, but that you were made sorrowful to [the point of] repentance; for you were made sorrowful according to [the will of] God, so that you might not suffer loss in anything through us.
10 For the sorrow that is according to [the will] [of] God produces a repentance without regret, [leading] to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death.
​

Paul wrote a letter that exposed the Corinthian problem, see "I caused you sorrow by my letter" in verse 8.

As Paul writes further (in verse 9), the Apostle narrows the focus with "for you were made sorrowful according to God"; moreover, the Greek of ἐλυπήθητε γὰρ κατὰ Θεόν agrees with "for you were made sorrowful according to God". "ἐλυπήθητε" means "you grieved"/"you were made sorrowful", and "γὰρ" means "for", and "κατὰ" means "down"/"against"/"according to", and "Θεόν" means "God".

Paul does not leave it there, NO, rather Paul repeats himself in verse 10 to make it clear - in Jewish fashion of repeating a point for emphasis - Paul makes it clear in no uncertain terms "the sorrow that is according to God produces a repentance without regret, to salvation". That is Paul driving the Power of God exclusive role in man's salvation point home!

Notice the key words of "according to God".

That sorrow, that repentance, is not of man's conjuring. See the keywords and absolute concept of "according to God"!

The scripture is devoid of "sorrow that is according to your free will" or "your free will to repent" or any indication about such a notion as man's free-will choice toward God.

The Apostle wrote "the sorrow that is according to God produces thinking differently afterward without regret" (2 Corinthians 7:10).

SCRIPTURAL CITATIONS ABOUT THE SOURCE OF REPENTANCE

BIBLE CITATION: Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? (Romans 2:4).

Notice that rebuke of people that despise repentance being from God!

BIBLE CITATION: When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life." (Acts 11:18)

See that God grants repentance as testified by the disciples in Acts 11:18.

BIBLE CITATION: with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, (2 Timothy 2:25)

Paul testifies that God grants "thinking different afterwards" in 2 Timothy 2:25.

BIBLE CITATION: "I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes" (Matthew 11:25).

Jesus reveals that God imparts the revelation of the Truth (John 14:6) into believer's thoughts causing believers to "think different after" being saved from the wrath of God.

THE THREE QUESTIONS ANSWERED

God grants repentance into people, as it is written; on the other hand, there is complete absence and silence in scripture for repentance as a work conjured up by man nor by man's "free will" nor "choice" nor "ability".

God grants repentance, and God acts for God's glory! Praise be to the Living God!

Belief.
Faith,

The Fountain of Living Water, Jesus Christ, says the following about Belief/Faith "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29) which means "every Christian's faith/belief in Jesus" equals "the work of God".

AND Paul is in accord with Jesus' words for Paul wrote to the Ephesians "by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His work, created in Christ Jesus" (Ephesians 2:8-10) which means that no person manipulates his or her own belief/faith in Jesus because Paul wrote "that not of yourselves".

AND Peter is in accord with Jesus' words for Peter declared "God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us; and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith" (Acts 15:8-9) which means God imparts belief/faith to cleanse believer's hearts.

SO, clearly, Jesus' words in John 6:29 state for us believers to believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent is exclusively granted by/of/through God.

hope, and

"But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the greatest of these is love" (1 Corinthians 13:13). Charity is a form of love.

charity.

Let's look at charity as a form of love. "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another" (John 13:34).

AND John is in accord with Jesus' words for he wrote "Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God" (1 John 4:7, see the phrase "love is from God" meaning God is the source of true love).

AND John expands with his writing of "God is Love, and the one who abides in Love abides in God, and God abides in him" (1 John 4:16, see the phrase "one who abides in Love" is equivocated with "one who abides" "in God" which extends from God's exclusivity with "God is Love").

SO, clearly, Jesus' words in John 13:34 states that the love, true love (John 3:33), the very righteous love, the Godly love within us children of God, this love is exclusively by/of/through God.

The selfish "love" of unsaved people has reward on full here on earth (Matthew 6:2-4) - they brag about "their" deeds such as "look at what I gave to so-and-so", but the selfless love imparted by God into believers has glory for God such as "I give this to you in the Name of Jesus" and/or "Jesus had me give such-and-such".

Water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins.
Enduring faithfully until the end.

Here you point out actions/deeds/works/fruit.

A person is saved by faith alone - not saved by works - truly saved by belief, yet works are the evidence of being saved.

By God's grace for God's glory, believer's good deeds, even coming to Christ, is caused by God for Jesus the Word of God says "he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God" (John 3:21).

AND Paul is in accord with Jesus' words for he wrote to the Philippians "being filled with the fruit of righteousness that [is] by Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God" (Philippians 1:11)

SO, clearly, Jesus' words in John 3:21 state actions/deeds/works/fruit in we believers is exclusively by/of/through God.

Basically, everything you wrote about is caused by God.

 

[rogerg]

A person is saved by faith alone - not saved by works - truly saved by belief, yet works are the evidence of being saved.

That was really illuminating and outstanding, Kermos - thank you!
The only point I might add, is that IMHO, we are saved by Christ's faith alone, not by our faith. Our faith comes to us as a fruit of the Spirit after salvation - a gift - to those whom He has chosen for salvation. That was probably implied by your point, and I was just too dull to recognize it - sorry.

[Gal 2:16 KJV] 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Basically, everything you wrote about is caused by God.

Absolutely, positively!

 

[Hopeful 2]

Saul could only know "deep down" after he had become saved. Spiritual knowledge comes from salvation,
it is not to salvation.

It wasn't "spiritual" knowledge, as Jesus' death was done in front of thousands.
Jesus Himself said..."It is hard to kick against the pricks".
Paul kept denying what he must have felt was important.

No. Only insofar as it was reckoned to us through Christ to no longer be under the law. Without law, there can be no sin, and that, through Christ. Of ourselves, all are sinners.

The non-converted are sinners.
The converted are "in Christ", and there is no sin in Christ.

[Gal 4:5 KJV] 5
To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
[1Co 15:56-57 KJV]
56 The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
57 But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
[Rom 5:13 KJV] 1
3 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
The "world" is the world to come, not this current world. This current world is to be destroyed.

I don't recall mentioning "world".

Were there anything a prerequisite to Christ's saving (besides that God had chosen its recipients to it), which man must contribute to get it, then Christ wouldn't be the Saviour, man would be.

Men have to hear and believe.
That doesn't mean they saved themselves.
Who could ever think that ?
Men have to respond to the salvation that is freely available to them.

For the Saviour to be the Saviour, then He alone must be the one who saves, from beginning to end
with no other contribution to it possible nor permitted.

Nobody but Jesus sided for our sins, so nobody but Him can save us.

I'll ask you again in a different way, define the role of the Saviour as you perceive it.

The role...He died for our sins.
That is the gospel.
He provided the blood for our sanctification, justification, atonement, and consecration.
He provided the vehicle whereby we can crucify the flesh with the affections and lusts.

 

[Hopeful 2]

No not some of them, all whom He tasted death for, He became the Captain of their Salvation and brings them to Glory Heb 2:9-10

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

He tasted death for every man.
Not every man believes it.

 

[Hopeful 2]

None can be alive to God except by new creation or resurrection.

Agreed, making it our responsibility to accept what God offered at the death and resurrection of Jesus, in order to be reborn of God's seed.

I hope you dont think man raises himself from the dead, or that he creates himself !

Not at all.
All I could do was obey what was taught by the apostle Peter on the day of Pentecost.
"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2:38)
People who don't turn from sin and get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, don't get the gift of the Holy Ghost.