Tasted Death for every Man !

[rogerg]

Not at all.
We have free choice to follow or take our own course in life.
We cannot be forced to love God.

So okay then, you actually don't understand the verses that tell us before salvation man is dead in sin, do you?
Or is it that do you just believe them wrong? What affect do you think being dead in sins has on someone's free will?
Didn't you say that God must give a new heart? Why do you think a new heart is necessary if the old is capable of aligning with and loving God, and why is it that it is God alone who can give that new heart, and man cannot? It is because the heart of natural man is evil and therefore incapable of knowing, nor loving God or the things of God - that is what being dead in sin brings forth. The only way that a new heart is given is with/by salvation/ being born again.
When you say that "we cannot be forced to love God" which verses do you have in mind as a basis for that statement, or do you do so from your own conjecture, because that concept is clearly contradicted and invalidated by the verses below. In fact, according to them, just the reverse is true.

[Jer 17:9 KJV] 9 The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Those saved are given the love of God through being born again by Holy Spirit

[1Co 12:13 KJV] 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

[Rom 3:10-12 KJV]
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
A man told me I could live without sinning and I believed him.
I was water baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of my past sins.
I received the gift of the Holy Ghost some days later.
That is conversion.
Those who will not do those things will not be lovers of or obedient to Jesus or His Father.

No, that is NOT conversion.
"hearing" is spiritual hearing, not human hearing. We've been through this before. The unsaved cannot hear.
Water baptism, as circumcision, are symbols of salvation, the not the cause nor substance of it. They provide no spiritual efficacy whatsoever. Spiritual baptism - being born again - is the only baptism that matters and that only is of God.

[1Co 12:13 KJV] 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

The requirement to "do", anything pertaining to salvation, makes that requirement a law. An attempt to satisfy the law for salvation, is in direct conflict and contradiction to Jesus Christ and God's grace. No one can be saved by their works of the law, but instead it makes of them an enemy of God.

[Rom 4:4 KJV] 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

[Gal 3:10 KJV] 10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Love and obedience come by the power of God.

Yes, but in that case, it is God, and only God, who must first give them in order to have them. So, it is not of man but of God. Yet God does not give them to everyone, but only to certain people. However, that obedience, is an obedience to faith in Christ, not to works.

[Rom 1:4-5 KJV]
4 And declared [to be] the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

I'm not sure what "that" refers to?
Does baptism's remission of sins "make it good"?
Yes, it does.

What I was referring to is that even murder, though evil, and deserving punishment according to earthly law, is still covered under Christ's offering and by His eternal law, if the perpetrator is one of God's saved.
Look at king David. He murdered many people during his life, yet he remained saved throughout. Why? Because his salvation was by Christ, not of him.
Water baptism does nothing - it is symbol, not substance.

God does.

Then God must do so first making any contribution of man to it, evil.

God's gifts to those who love and obey Him.

No. In order for someone to love and obey Him, they first had to receive His gifts, by which, they do so. It
cannot occur in the reverse.

All men are born with a conscience.
All men know when they sin.

No, spiritually speaking, natural man is not born with a conscience, neither do they know when they sin, nor how to do good.

[Jer 17:9 KJV] 9 The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?

[Rom 3:10-12 KJV]
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Without a true conversion, man can't live without offending their conscience.
The unconverted still walk in the flesh instead of in the Spirit.

Which can only occur by/through God, not man.

God in man get's the results.
Like Paul wrote in Gal 2:20..."I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me."
Conversion facilitates results.

But only God, not man, can and must first do the conversion.

I guess it depends on what "results" you refer to.

I refer to the fact that based upon your logic, "A" needs "B" to happen, yet "B" also needs "A" to happen, but to happen at the same time. That is a fundament irresolvable conflict/contradiction indicating a flaw in your logic, and thereby, proves it incorrect. We can know this because in the gospel, there are no logical flaws.

 

[GodsGrace]

Spiritual death is worse, its seperatin from God who is Spirit. People can be functioning well physically but still be dead. Jesus once said of physically alive people Matt 8:22

Matthew 8:22 is speaking of spiritual death. We are born spiritually dead.
Instead your above reminded me of
Matthew 10:28
28“Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

I think we can both agree that man is born spiritually dead.
He must come to life also spiritually.

Of course, we disagree with how this is done - or how it happens.

God offers His salvation to everyone....because God so loved the world, His creation.
But we have to want to be with God for eternity.
Some persons come to believe intellectually, some by reading the bible, some by having an experience.

John the Baptist said to repent.
Jesus said to repent.
Jesus taught how to enter into the Kingdom of God.
Why would this be necessary if it's God that does the choosing?

The problem here is what comes first? Regeneration or salvation?
I can't think of one verse that states we must first be saved and then we become generated.

The NT teaches that we must be saved and accept God into our lives.
It is then God that regenerates us more and more into the likeness of Him.

John 15:3
3You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.

Jesus spoke the Word.
He person became clean.

The person did not become clean first and THEN Jesus spoke the word.
and It's like this for any verse you could post.

But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.

Agreed. Those following Jesus will become born again.
Those that do not are spiritually dead and eventually will be physically dead.

Here He spoke of both deaths: Let the dead (spiritually dead) bury their dead (physically dead).

It takes a Sovereign act of Gods Grace, Spirit and Power to make one alive from Spiritual death. Everyone Christ died for and rose again for, shall be made alive from the dead by the New birth, then they hear Spiritually and follow Christ.

I can't think of one verse that states the above.

I do agree that God gifts to us His grace and always makes the first move.
But we have the free will to agree to accept this gift or to reject it.

There are many verses to support the above, but you squiggle out of it be declaring that it's
descriptive and thus you eliminate the entire idea of the NT teachings.

Why teach anything if God decides all?
If He predestinates all?
If He decrees all?

You once stated that Jesus taught because we still need to know how to behave.
Why? God DECREES all behavior. No need to be taught anything.

What a strange world view.

 

[GodsGrace]

No, I don't. Because your reply makes an overt error, I will reply to it, but this is it.
Not that it will do any good but read these verses. Read v1:77 below closely - that for someone to have knowledge of
salvation their sins FIRST have to be remitted? That means they were spiritually dead before then, and because of that, completely oblivious the tenets of salvation, and salvation itself. Christ had to first save them, and from/by that, they receive spiritual life and knowledge. In other words, Christ had to administer the antidote (salvation) on their behalf of the spiritually dead to bring to life the things of the spirit, without which, they would have no spiritual knowledge. Neither physical intellect nor human thinking plays any part whatsoever in spiritual discernment.

[Luk 1:77-78 KJV]
77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,
78 Through the tender mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us,

I don't agree with any of the above.
But since you don't wish to discuss, I will honor your wish.

 

[Hopeful 2]

rogerg:
So, to add a conclusion (which I should have included my prior post to bring it all together), the points you raise above necessitate that God take all actions required to bring it to pass - man cannot: one's conversion along with the associated manifestations of it are far beyond man's ability to give to himself. So, whether or not you realize it, in effect, in including "manifested in them", your post is actually saying that it can only be given by God.

God provided it all.
The manifestations of those gifts is on us.

Error, Christ tasted death for them He brings to Glory Heb 2:9-10

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

The people who never make it to Glory, He didn't taste death for. If you say He did, but they didnt make it to Glory, then that exposes what you believe, that you dont believe Christs death alone ensures eternal salvation, and that you condition eternal salvation on the doings of men, and make Christs death ineffectual and of no saving profit.

You keep printing verse 9, then denying what it says.
Jesus' death and resurrection is available to all men.
Tell me who it is not available to.

 

[Hopeful 2]

So, to add a conclusion (which I should have included my prior post to bring it all together), the points you raise above necessitate that God take all actions required to bring it to pass - man cannot: one's conversion along with the associated manifestations of it are far beyond man's ability to give to himself. So, whether or not you realize it, in effect, in including "manifested in them", your post is actually saying that it can only be given by God.

God cannot repent of sin for me.
God cannot wash away my past sins if I don't get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins.
Why are you so afraid to actually do something for yourself, especially if it glorifies God?

God has provided repentance from sin, and baptism in the name of Jesus to all men.
Only those who sorrow for their sins, and love Him, will take hold of the gifts.

 

[rogerg]

God cannot repent of sin for me.
God cannot wash away my past sins if I don't get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins.
Why are you so afraid to actually do something for yourself, especially if it glorifies God?

God has provided repentance from sin, and baptism in the name of Jesus to all men.
Only those who sorrow for their sins, and love Him, will take hold of the gifts.

That is exactly what God does through Christ for those whom He has chosen. And the Repentance is repentance to the
acknowledging of the truth (the acknowledgement of Christ as Saviour). God has wiped away all sin, past, present and future for those whom He has chosen for such, and from/because of that, they acknowledge the truth. For those God chose to salvation, He gives it with no preconditions other than having been chosen by Him.
True baptism is only through the Spirit; it is not of, by, or from, man - only to man.

[2Ti 2:25 KJV] 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

Acknowledging Christ as the Saviour IS the ONLY way that God is glorified because that is the gospel given by God, and through that gospel Christ the Saviour whom God sent to bring to fruition, salvation. A belief in that is also a gift given by God. To try to do something to obtain salvation, or to contribute to salvation, does not glorify Him in the least. Instead, God's wrath abides upon those who do not believe in Christ. They, in effect, call God a liar because they do not believe in the one whom He has sent, nor in the record He has provided of Him; nor do they believe Christ's offering sufficient for salvation.
Yes, I am afraid of doing that, very afraid indeed, and if you had any biblical understanding, you would be too. What do
you think the penalty will be in judgment day for calling God a liar if left unforgiven?

In the below verse, we are informed that those who do not believe on the Son as Saviour, call God a liar.

[1Jo 5:10 KJV] 10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

Apparently, you were unable to comprehend any of the verses I provided you. It's like you are totally oblivious to them or in understanding how they apply. The reason for your misunderstanding of salvation, is that you just are unable to comprehend nor believe Christ alone as Saviour: fully, completely, and in all ways. Christ is the foundation and the apex of the Bible; man is not. All of your misconceptions arise because you are completely blind to that. For now, at least, you remain under works and law, and therefore, under the wrath of God.

God does not "provide" repentance from sin, God gives repentance through Christ to some through the forgiveness of their sin. Repentance is a gift. It is impossible to repent or take hold of anything unless first being saved/born again by God.
[2Ti 2:25 KJV] 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

 

[Hopeful 2]

That is exactly what God does through Christ for those whom He has chosen. And the Repentance is repentance to the
acknowledging of the truth (the acknowledgement of Christ as Saviour).

Repentance is a turn from something, in my case sin.

God has wiped away all sin, past, present and future for those whom He has chosen for such,

That is a lie.
If men sin, they are not Christian, or His at all.

and from/because of that, they acknowledge the truth. For those God chose to salvation, He gives it with no preconditions other than having been chosen by Him.
True baptism is only through the Spirit; it is not of, by, or from, man - only to man.

[2Ti 2:25 KJV] 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

Acknowledging Christ as the Saviour IS the ONLY way that God is glorified because that is the gospel given by God, and through that gospel Christ the Saviour whom God sent to bring to fruition, salvation. A belief in that is also a gift given by God. To try to do something to obtain salvation, or to contribute to salvation, does not glorify Him in the least. Instead, God's wrath abides upon those who do not believe in Christ. They, in effect, call God a liar because they do not believe in the one whom He has sent, nor in the record He has provided of Him; nor do they believe Christ's offering sufficient for salvation.
Yes, I am afraid of doing that, very afraid indeed, and if you had any biblical understanding, you would be too. What do
you think the penalty will be in judgment day for calling God a liar if left unforgiven?

In the below verse, we are informed that those who do not believe on the Son as Saviour, call God a liar.

[1Jo 5:10 KJV] 10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

Apparently, you were unable to comprehend any of the verses I provided you. It's like you are totally oblivious to them or in understanding how they apply. The reason for your misunderstanding of salvation, is that you just are unable to comprehend nor believe Christ alone as Saviour: fully, completely, and in all ways. Christ is the foundation and the apex of the Bible; man is not. All of your misconceptions arise because you are completely blind to that. For now, at least, you remain under works and law, and therefore, under the wrath of God.

God does not "provide" repentance from sin, God gives repentance through Christ to some through the forgiveness of their sin. Repentance is a gift. It is impossible to repent or take hold of anything unless first being saved/born again by God.
[2Ti 2:25 KJV] 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

The word "repent" can be user in more than one way.
When a man turns to God from satan, he has repented of following the loser and started following the Winner.
But a man can also repent of sin, turning from hate to love.
He can also repent of driving East and start to drive West, or North.
Any man who turns to God will also turn from sinning.

 

[rogerg]

Repentance is a turn from something, in my case sin.

That is only true if the sin is in working for salvation and being turned unto trusting in Christ - and that is only by God.
To trust in Christ as Saviour is given as a gift by God to those whom He has chosen to salvation.

That is a lie.
If men sin, they are not Christian, or His at all.

That is the lie. Everyone sins earthly sins even those saved, but they do not and cannot sin spiritual sin: rejecting Christ as Saviour and trusting in works is spiritual sin -the unsaved do so; the saved do not. Your reply demonstrates your lack of understanding of Christ and of salvation.

[1Jo 3:9 KJV] 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

The word "repent" can be user in more than one way.
When a man turns to God from satan, he has repented of following the loser and started following the Winner.
But a man can also repent of sin, turning from hate to love.
He can also repent of driving East and start to drive West, or North.
Any man who turns to God will also turn from sinning.

The repentance of concern is repentance from dead works unto Christ. Any other repentance is meaningless.
Of themselves, no one can turn from Satan and from sin because they, being born under it are his subjects - with he as their god. One must first become saved. From, by, with that, in being turned to Christ, they are turned from Satan and spiritually can see clearly. They must first be saved because while being unsaved, they are spiritually dead and spiritually blind: believing they serve God, they serve Satan and sin instead.
Natural man does not/cannot repent himself from sin because he believes sin to be spiritually good and right - that
by committing it, he is doing his god's work.
Again, the verses I provided have been completely lost on you. Do you actually read the Bible, or did you instead come to your beliefs from people and/or sources outside of the Bible?

 

[brightfame52]

Matthew 8:22 is speaking of spiritual death. We are born spiritually dead.
Instead your above reminded me of
Matthew 10:28
28“Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

I think we can both agree that man is born spiritually dead.
He must come to life also spiritually.

Of course, we disagree with how this is done - or how it happens.

God offers His salvation to everyone....because God so loved the world, His creation.
But we have to want to be with God for eternity.
Some persons come to believe intellectually, some by reading the bible, some by having an experience.

John the Baptist said to repent.
Jesus said to repent.
Jesus taught how to enter into the Kingdom of God.
Why would this be necessary if it's God that does the choosing?

The problem here is what comes first? Regeneration or salvation?
I can't think of one verse that states we must first be saved and then we become generated.

The NT teaches that we must be saved and accept God into our lives.
It is then God that regenerates us more and more into the likeness of Him.

John 15:3
3You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.

Jesus spoke the Word.
He person became clean.

The person did not become clean first and THEN Jesus spoke the word.
and It's like this for any verse you could post.

Agreed. Those following Jesus will become born again.
Those that do not are spiritually dead and eventually will be physically dead.

Here He spoke of both deaths: Let the dead (spiritually dead) bury their dead (physically dead).


I can't think of one verse that states the above.

I do agree that God gifts to us His grace and always makes the first move.
But we have the free will to agree to accept this gift or to reject it.

There are many verses to support the above, but you squiggle out of it be declaring that it's
descriptive and thus you eliminate the entire idea of the NT teachings.

Why teach anything if God decides all?
If He predestinates all?
If He decrees all?

You once stated that Jesus taught because we still need to know how to behave.
Why? God DECREES all behavior. No need to be taught anything.

What a strange world view.

Man by nature is dead to God, he can only respond to God spiritually, only after he is made alive. If God doesnt make a person alive first, they can do nothing spiritually, sorry.

 

[brightfame52]

rogerg:
So, to add a conclusion (which I should have included my prior post to bring it all together), the points you raise above necessitate that God take all actions required to bring it to pass - man cannot: one's conversion along with the associated manifestations of it are far beyond man's ability to give to himself. So, whether or not you realize it, in effect, in including "manifested in them", your post is actually saying that it can only be given by God.

God provided it all.
The manifestations of those gifts is on us.

You keep printing verse 9, then denying what it says.
Jesus' death and resurrection is available to all men.
Tell me who it is not available to.

Heb 2:9-10 go together, the ones He tasted death for, and He suffered for, He brings them to Glory

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

Now if you say He tasted death for them that are eternally lost, then you render His Taste of Death ineffectual, contrary to Vs 10

 

[brightfame52]

Repentance is a turn from something, in my case sin.

That is a lie.
If men sin, they are not Christian, or His at all.

The word "repent" can be user in more than one way.
When a man turns to God from satan, he has repented of following the loser and started following the Winner.
But a man can also repent of sin, turning from hate to love.
He can also repent of driving East and start to drive West, or North.
Any man who turns to God will also turn from sinning.

A dead person cant turn since they dont have life, turning is a activity of life.

 

[GodsGrace]

Man by nature is dead to God, he can only respond to God spiritually, only after he is made alive. If God doesnt make a person alive first, they can do nothing spiritually, sorry.

It's nice that you're sorry.
However, I asked you to post some verses that show that salvation comes before generation.
Perhaps you can do this in your reply to this post?

What you're saying is that someone has to be saved before they can be saved since it's regeneration that saves.
God is a logical being and has given man his brain which, under normal conditions, is supposed to function logically.

Please list 2 or 3 verses.
Thanks.

 

[GodsGrace]

A dead person cant turn since they dont have life, turning is a activity of life.

Again, you're getting spiritual death mixed up with physical death.
A living being can turn.
Whether or not he wants to is a spiritual matter.

 

[brightfame52]

It's nice that you're sorry.
However, I asked you to post some verses that show that salvation comes before generation.
Perhaps you can do this in your reply to this post?

What you're saying is that someone has to be saved before they can be saved since it's regeneration that saves.
God is a logical being and has given man his brain which, under normal conditions, is supposed to function logically.

Please list 2 or 3 verses.
Thanks.

I have done that before, and regardless, man by nature is dead to God. Before a person can respond spiritually, they need to be alive spiritually.

 

[brightfame52]

Again, you're getting spiritual death mixed up with physical death.
A living being can turn.
Whether or not he wants to is a spiritual matter.

No Im not. Man by nature has no spiritual life, he is dead to God, dead in sin.

 

[GodsGrace]

No Im not. Man by nature has no spiritual life, he is dead to God, dead in sin.

You know what this response you're giving is called? Parroting.

It sound like you're just repeating what you've heard.

 

[Hopeful 2]

That is only true if the sin is in working for salvation and being turned unto trusting in Christ - and that is only by God.
To trust in Christ as Saviour is given as a gift by God to those whom He has chosen to salvation.

If a man turns from, whatever, and turns to God, doesn't he automatically turn from sin too?
How can one turn to God without turning from wickedness?

That is the lie.

If it is a lie, then there is sin in Christ, and in His Father. (1 John 1:5)
It is not a lie.

Everyone sins earthly sins even those saved,

As salvation can't be assured until the day of judgement, your point is a straw man.

but they do not and cannot sin spiritual sin: rejecting Christ as Saviour and trusting in works is spiritual sin

Thanks for your definition of spiritual sin, but aren't murder, adultery, and thievery spiritual sins too?
Man acts upon the spirit within himself.
Muderers and liars don't have the Spirit of God in them.

-the unsaved do so; the saved do not. Your reply demonstrates your lack of understanding of Christ and of salvation.

Your reply seems to think the day of judgement has already occurred.

[1Jo 3:9 KJV] 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Do you want to go back now and remove your "That is a lie." comment ?

The repentance of concern is repentance from dead works unto Christ. Any other repentance is meaningless.

The only thing accomplished with that definition of repentance is continued sin.

Of themselves, no one can turn from Satan and from sin because they, being born under it are his subjects - with he as their god.

So much for the idea of free choice...eh?
I can't agree with you.

One must first become saved.

Back to the day of judgement concept.

From, by, with that, in being turned to Christ, they are turned from Satan and spiritually can see clearly. They must first be saved because while being unsaved, they are spiritually dead and spiritually blind: believing they serve God, they serve Satan and sin instead.
Natural man does not/cannot repent himself from sin because he believes sin to be spiritually good and right - that
by committing it, he is doing his god's work.

Before I was converted, I knew my deeds were evil.
Everyman is born with a conscience of good and evil.
What I did not have was the knowledge of, or ability to, remain free from sin.
After turning from sin, (repenting of sin), and being crucified with Christ, (Rom 6:3-7, Gal 5:24), and being raised with Christ to walk in newness of life, (Rom 6:4), and receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost, (Acts 2:38), I had all of that and more.

Again, the verses I provided have been completely lost on you. Do you actually read the Bible, or did you instead come to your beliefs from people and/or sources outside of the Bible?

Your interpretations of what is written, were lost on me.

 

[brightfame52]

You know what this response you're giving is called? Parroting.

It sound like you're just repeating what you've heard.

Call it what you will, man by nature is dead Rom 5:15

15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Heb 2:9-10 go together, the ones He tasted death for, and He suffered for, He brings them to Glory

If only you could see it from the other direction.
All He brings to glory, He has tasted death for.
That doesn't mean He hasn't tasted death for many others who refused His gift.
The ones still alive can still change their minds.

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

Now if you say He tasted death for them that are eternally lost, then you render His Taste of Death ineffectual, contrary to Vs 10

I believe Jesus tasted death for all men, 2000 years ago.
Only about .0001% of those men, will profit from it.
But the gift was available to all of them.

 

[Hopeful 2]

A dead person cant turn since they dont have life, turning is a activity of life.

The "dead" can do what God requires of them to be made alive.
All men have the freedom to choose which road they will travel.