Temporal Salvation?

[JLB]

Where do you come up with these new movements?

These are not new movements, rather it’s the ole dog and pony show that’s been around since the garden of Eden.


Paul calls it, THE LIE.


It’s THE LIE, Satan deceived Eve with in the garden.


THE LIE that says you can live in disobedience to God, and you won’t die.


Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die”.
Genesis 3:4



And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 2 Thessalonians 2:10-11


JLB

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

This shows me how deceptive the Freegrace movement is.
People don't even know it exists, yet so many subscribe to it.

The amusing part about it is they'll spout off their Freegrace beliefs, then when you address them they insist they don't believe that way.

And just so there is no misunderstanding, I'm not addressing the OSAS aspect of Freegrace doctrine. I'm addressing the necessity to have a living faith--one that works--in order to be saved. Freegrace says dead faith saves, too. I'm being careful to avoid the implications that having a dead faith has in regard to OSAS.

You avoid OSAS, I avoid the coronavirus.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Salvation is desirable.


The requirement for salvation is to believe.


Do you agree or disagree?



JLB

I agree, but when I first believed in God, I had to ponder whether I believed that Jesus was really God.
Since I was already going to church and being excited about being there and reading the Bible, one could easily think I was already saved.
Was I?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

The most understandable and encouraging attribute concerning salvation is that of its permanency, after all, it is called “eternal salvation” (Heb 5:9). What part of salvation is temporary, seeing that one of the meanings of redemption is that of being saved from “eternal damnation” (Mar 3:29). Is it a sensible truism that one can be eternally saved and then not eternally saved? Thus being temporarily saved from “everlasting punishment” (Mat 25:46) is clearly a concept of an oxymoron?

Yes, it is an oxymoron in the rhetorical sense.
How can I be saved if I'm not saved?
Well, obviously, you can't be saved if you are not saved.
Therefore, no one is saved.
We are a religious people that go through the motions and in the end hope that God has mercy on us.

Now where have I that before?
Ah yes, Allah, the merciful one!

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

Why would want to counter scripture?

Isnt that another way of saying you can twist the scripture to say whatever you want it to mean?


I just don’t believe you mean you are wanting to counter the scripture.

I think you mean something else.


Tell me what you believe this scripture means —


And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him, Hebrews 5:9


Here’s what I believe this scripture means...


Jesus is the source of eternal salvation for all who obey Him.


JLB

Ain’t no doubting that, for sure.....The Question is what do you mean by “ obey” ......Jesus said in 1John 3 :23 that all that is left for us to do, post Resurrection is to do TWO THINGS . #1Believe. #2Love. NOTHING ELSE ! If you have a Thinking Cap , please put it on....Jesus knows that if we accomplish these Two things, everything else that He cares about will take care of itself....John, the Disciple That Jesus Loved , figured this out ( by the Revelation Of The Holy Spirit, Of course ) —- why can’t Some of “ you” Stiff-Necked , weak Believers and Legalists out there figure it out.
Perhaps the Guy I heard the other day had it right—— He maintained that some things , like Eternal Security , can be Only be “Spiritually Ascertained”. Religionists “ Ape” True Christians , But they lack what Drives a Real Christian —- God’s Holy Spirit. If that is True, it would explain a lot ,wouldn’t it?
They just refuse to take Jesus at His Word.....I hope those New to the Faith try to concentrate on the only two things that Jesus zeroed- in on—- “ Believe and Love” and see what happens.....some people are always stressing “ Obedience” . Only a Fool would argue against THAT! They just don’t know how to go about getting it. TRUE Obedience! Even My kids obey when “Daddy is around”—- it ain’t from the Heart.....God demands it come from the Heart......Here is how it works—- BELIEVE Paul’s Gospel Of 1Cor15:1-4....... I am talking about “ Believing “ in it enough to REST in it as God COMMANDS in Heb4......If you REST in the Gospel , That will Spur the Total ASSURANCE of your Salvation —-You Will Be Given the Wisdom to see that the Finished Work Of The Cross , accomplished by JESUS ALONE , is the ONLY Reason you ever Got Saved and it is the only reason you STAY Saved.....You will see that the Song “ Nothing But The Blood” called it correctly a long time ago.....
This New-Found Assurance spurs the RELIEF of knowing “ Your” Performance does not count for anything in regard to your Salvation....it is a gift, given to those who don’t try to earn it.....an impossibility, btw.....Christianity involves-many Paradoxes( I.e. , you go up by going down , you become first by becoming last, etc ), and here is another Paradox that God Knew about a long time ago......when you realize that you do not have to “ perform” to please God, and finally realize that it was “ HIS” Performance that we Esteem and NOT ours, our Obedience and Performance actually improves incredibly—- NOT that it matters for our Salvation—- Never Forget That Salvation is a “ Gift” ......Getting That Horrible Weight Of Performance - Based Salvation Weight off of your shoulders Spurs Love for God......It is the ONLY THING IN THIS UNIVERSE that will lead you to LOVE HIM.....THAT is what GOD is Looking For! If you don’t have that Love NOW—- what makes you think you are Magically going to get it the Day you you die?
Satan had no Love for God and found a third of Heaven that were just like him and declared War on God.....we all know how that turned out, don’t we?
Do those that have declared God a Liar — saying we must ADD to His Gospel Of Pure Grace Plus Nothing and hence, can never Rest In It ...... Are these Unbelievers ( as God calls those that do not Fully Trust enough to Rest In His Gospel Heb. 4 and 5) , are they the Modern-Day Equivalents Of Those That “ declare war on God” By their deficits of Trust and Love?
Some teach that the whole purpose of our Existence is so that God can fill the void in Heaven that was left when Satan and his evil cohorts Lost their War and were ejected from Heaven.All Souls That are included in filling that Void will be Believers in the Gospel Of Grace. ( Paul’s Gospel that declares Jesus died for sins and rose from the grave ) If you really BELIEVE it , You will REST in it as Commanded by God . If you Have Rested in it , you automatically became one that Loved God. Hallelujah! Everybody gets what they want......except For Satan, the demons that trusted him instead of God , and Unbelievers—- unbelievers in the Gospel.....God bless

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I agree, but when I first believed in God...

What exactly did you believe?

I believed that God forgave sin through Jesus Christ. And I received that forgiveness, not just believed it. I was saved when I received it, not when I believed that God forgave sin through Jesus Christ. I think many people (not you) stop short of officially receiving God's forgiveness and think just agreeing with God that he forgives sin through Christ will save them. And, IMO, it is these people who comprise most of the dead faith 'believers' in the church today.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

When I got saved, it was in prayer saying over and over, "Jesus, I do believe you are God".
I heard no salvation message, no altar calls, no promises, nothing.
It was my belief that God was real and that Jesus was God.
Immediately, God let me know through the Holy Spirit that I was saved.
I learned everything else later.
Like today, you still teach me Jethro.

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

I agree, but when I first believed in God, I had to ponder whether I believed that Jesus was really God.
Since I was already going to church and being excited about being there and reading the Bible, one could easily think I was already saved.
Was I?

“Nobody comes to God lest the Spirit Draw Him”......Did the Spirit Of God “ Draw” you to Jesus by showing you that you were “ dirty” because of your sins, and the only Way to be “ Cleansed” and become “ Fit For Heaven” was to ask Jesus to Cleanse you?! That’s Christianity in a Nutshell —- Understand That you are a Sinner That needs a Savior, and turn to that Savior and ask Him to show you Mercy and Save you.....He will.
“ All that come to me through My Son, Jesus Christ , I will SAVE TO THE UTTERMOST” .That is a Promise Of God. Here’s another good one: “ I will present you as BLAMELESS before my Father.” Trust God and He will Save You.Simply Believe the Gospel Of 1Cor 15:1-4——— Run ,Don’t Walk , From anyone who says you must do more.....God Bless....

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

“Nobody comes to God lest the Spirit Draw Him”......Did the Spirit Of God “ Draw” you to Jesus by showing you that you were “ dirty” because of your sins, and the only Way to be “ Cleansed” and become “ Fit For Heaven” was to ask Jesus to Cleanse you?! That’s Christianity in a Nutshell —- Understand That you are a Sinner That needs a Savior, and turn to that Savior and ask Him to show you Mercy and Save you.....He will.
“ All that come to me through My Son, Jesus Christ , I will SAVE TO THE UTTERMOST” .That is a Promise Of God. Here’s another good one: “ I will present you as BLAMELESS before my Father.” Trust God and He will Save You.Simply Believe the Gospel Of 1Cor 15:1-4——— Run ,Don’t Walk , From anyone who says you must do more.....God Bless....

I disagree.
You think the only people in heaven are those that know the Bible or heard the Bible from another?
If you believe that, then you are being judgmental.
Anyone who questions another's salvation because it's not the way YOU believe, that's called being judgmental.
Just how close are you to God?
Does he allow you to judge others' salvation?

 

[JLB]

I agree, but when I first believed in God, I had to ponder whether I believed that Jesus was really God.
Since I was already going to church and being excited about being there and reading the Bible, one could easily think I was already saved.
Was I?

I honestly don’t know. That would be a God question.


What I am asking you is based on what Jesus said, not so much about our personal experience.


You said you agree so we are in agreement with Jesus.



JLB

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Can anyone name a free grace movement church that I can look up on the internet and see what they are all about?
All I can find is a couple of guys talking about stuff, calling themselves an alliance, but I can't find a church that actually believes it and practices it.

 

[JLB]

Ain’t no doubting that, for sure.....The Question is what do you mean by “ obey” ......Jesus said in 1John 3 :23 that all that is left for us to do, post Resurrection is to do TWO THINGS . #1Believe. #2Love. NOTHING ELSE ! If you have a Thinking Cap , please put it on....Jesus knows that if we accomplish these Two things, everything else that He cares about will take care of itself....John, the Disciple That Jesus Loved , figured this out ( by the Revelation Of The Holy Spirit, Of course ) —- why can’t Some of “ you” Stiff-Necked , weak Believers and Legalists out there figure it out.
Perhaps the Guy I heard the other day had it right—— He maintained that some things , like Eternal Security , can be Only be “Spiritually Ascertained”. Religionists “ Ape” True Christians , But they lack what Drives a Real Christian —- God’s Holy Spirit. If that is True, it would explain a lot ,wouldn’t it?
They just refuse to take Jesus at His Word.....I hope those New to the Faith try to concentrate on the only two things that Jesus zeroed- in on—- “ Believe and Love” and see what happens.....some people are always stressing “ Obedience” . Only a Fool would argue against THAT! They just don’t know how to go about getting it. TRUE Obedience! Even My kids obey when “Daddy is around”—- it ain’t from the Heart.....God demands it come from the Heart......Here is how it works—- BELIEVE Paul’s Gospel Of 1Cor15:1-4....... I am talking about “ Believing “ in it enough to REST in it as God COMMANDS in Heb4......If you REST in the Gospel , That will Spur the Total ASSURANCE of your Salvation —-You Will Be Given the Wisdom to see that the Finished Work Of The Cross , accomplished by JESUS ALONE , is the ONLY Reason you ever Got Saved and it is the only reason you STAY Saved.....You will see that the Song “ Nothing But The Blood” called it correctly a long time ago.....
This New-Found Assurance spurs the RELIEF of knowing “ Your” Performance does not count for anything in regard to your Salvation....it is a gift, given to those who don’t try to earn it.....an impossibility, btw.....Christianity involves-many Paradoxes( I.e. , you go up by going down , you become first by becoming last, etc ), and here is another Paradox that God Knew about a long time ago......when you realize that you do not have to “ perform” to please God, and finally realize that it was “ HIS” Performance that we Esteem and NOT ours, our Obedience and Performance actually improves incredibly—- NOT that it matters for our Salvation—- Never Forget That Salvation is a “ Gift” ......Getting That Horrible Weight Of Performance - Based Salvation Weight off of your shoulders Spurs Love for God......It is the ONLY THING IN THIS UNIVERSE that will lead you to LOVE HIM.....THAT is what GOD is Looking For! If you don’t have that Love NOW—- what makes you think you are Magically going to get it the Day you you die?
Satan had no Love for God and found a third of Heaven that were just like him and declared War on God.....we all know how that turned out, don’t we?
Do those that have declared God a Liar — saying we must ADD to His Gospel Of Pure Grace Plus Nothing and hence, can never Rest In It ...... Are these Unbelievers ( as God calls those that do not Fully Trust enough to Rest In His Gospel Heb. 4 and 5) , are they the Modern-Day Equivalents Of Those That “ declare war on God” By their deficits of Trust and Love?
Some teach that the whole purpose of our Existence is so that God can fill the void in Heaven that was left when Satan and his evil cohorts Lost their War and were ejected from Heaven.All Souls That are included in filling that Void will be Believers in the Gospel Of Grace. ( Paul’s Gospel that declares Jesus died for sins and rose from the grave ) If you really BELIEVE it , You will REST in it as Commanded by God . If you Have Rested in it , you automatically became one that Loved God. Hallelujah! Everybody gets what they want......except For Satan, the demons that trusted him instead of God , and Unbelievers—- unbelievers in the Gospel.....God bless

Thanks for sharing your beliefs.


I think I made my point, and any more would be redundant.



God bless you. JLB

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

Its how we believe and therefore obey the Gospel of Jesus Christ

The Gospel , which is Paul’s Gospel Of 1 Cor 15:1-4 Given to Paul by Jesus Personally is not something to be “obeyed “ .....it is a Promise to be Believed....
I invite everybody here to google “ Harry ironside gospel” .....find out what the Good News is NOT! That is just as important as what it IS.....

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Can anyone name a free grace movement church that I can look up on the internet and see what they are all about?
All I can find is a couple of guys talking about stuff, calling themselves an alliance, but I can't find a church that actually believes it and practices it.

Doesn't the First Church of the Enlightened in Inverness believe in Freegrace theology?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The Gospel , which is Paul’s Gospel Of 1 Cor 15:1-4 Given to Paul by Jesus Personally is not something to be “obeyed “ ....

"8 He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus." - 2 Thessalonians 1:8

.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Can anyone name a free grace movement church that I can look up on the internet and see what they are all about?
All I can find is a couple of guys talking about stuff, calling themselves an alliance, but I can't find a church that actually believes it and practices it.

The problem is you have to ask them specifically what they say about the person who believes in Christ, is saved, but then does nothing and even goes back to unbelief. I'd be surprised if you find any church who addresses this very important point in their official doctrinal statement. That's what makes this movement so insidious. I think it's the doctrine through which the church falls away in the end times. It's happening now.

Perhaps if you dig around here you'll find a church that comes right out and says the believer can forsake God and go back to their old life in unbelief and they will be saved when Jesus returns because dead 'faith' saves, too (compare to James 2:14):

Free grace theology - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Probably not, though, because even they know deep down inside that's absurd and that if they come right out and say it up front that will only drive people away from their churches. That's kind of a hallmark of false religions--they keep the truly ugly truths they're really trying to spread hidden away until they've won you over in some other way.

No apologies here, folks, Freegrace doctrine is straight from the pit of hell. Not the sugar coated, acceptable stuff they put on the outside, but the truly ugly stuff they believe but keep concealed until they have you in their grasp.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

The problem is you have to ask them specifically what they say about the person who believes in Christ, is saved, but then does nothing and even goes back to unbelief. I'd be surprised if you find any church who addresses this very important point in their official doctrinal statement. That's what makes this movement so insidious. I think it's the doctrine through which the church falls away in the end times. It's happening now.

Perhaps if you dig around here you'll find a church that comes right out and says the believer can forsake God and go back to their old life in unbelief and they will be saved when Jesus returns because dead faith saves, too (compare to James 2:14):

Free grace theology - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Probably not, though, because even they know deep down inside that's absurd and that if they come right out and say it up front that will only drive people away from their churches. That's kind of a hallmark of false religions--they keep the truly ugly truths they're really trying to spread hidden away until they've won you over in some other way.

No apologies here, folks, Freegrace doctrine is straight from the pit of hell. Not the sugar coated, acceptable stuff they put on the outside, but the truly ugly stuff they believe but keep concealed until they have you in their grasp.

You are probably right, no arguments here.
But who cares really?
People either have a relationship with Jesus or they don't.
Preach the truth to them and let them decide.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

You are probably right, no arguments here.
But who cares really?
People either have a relationship with Jesus or they don't.
Preach the truth to them and let them decide.

Normally, I would agree with you. But this booger is insidious.
Honest Christians are being led astray by this crap.
People who want to believe in a gospel like that, well, it's there for them to cherish and follow to their own destruction, just as God intends. But honest Christians, especially new Christians, need to be led by the hand out of that stuff. Christ will do that one way or the other, because the honest one's really do belong to him, but he uses the church to do that. I'm doing that on behalf of the true church. I want to be the church that is doing that.

 

[netchaplain]

It's comforting when the Spirit of God confirms the "word of truth" within the believer (Jhn 16:13); and in knowing this we cannot avoid being assured that we eventually learn (Lord tarrying and barring the grave) the truths we seek; which answers to the reason why those reborn can never be ultimately "deceived" (Mat 24:24).

 

[jerry63935]

BECOME involves a process.

the power is not a progress . we are the progress called sanctification
Acts 1:8

“But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost pa

we get the Holy spirit the moment we are saved. unless your one of these who thinks you have to speak in tongues to have the Holy Ghost