Temporal Salvation?

[jerry63935]

The requirement for salvation is to believe.

believe what?

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

Can anyone name a free grace movement church that I can look up on the internet and see what they are all about?
All I can find is a couple of guys talking about stuff, calling themselves an alliance, but I can't find a church that actually believes it and practices it.

I think they are few and far between......none in my area....

BECOME involves a process.


To “Become” probably “ does” involve a Process..... That would be a Process Started by the Holy Spirit and Finished by the Holy Spirit..... “ I will FINISH the Work that I started”

 

[jerry63935]

what is a free grace movement ?

 

[JLB]

believe what?

Believe the Gospel.

The pattern is demonstrated by the thief on the cross.


that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. Romans 10:9


Confessing Jesus as Lord is how we obey the Gospel.



Im going to bow out of this thread.


Thanks for your time.



JLB

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

The point we were addressing is the matter of 'make every effort' (2 Peter 1:5, 2 Peter 1:10).
If you were my Christian neighbor, I'd expect you to make every effort to stay the heck away from my wife, my lawn mower, and my property, and to not even LOOK over the fence with longing at any of these things. You don't get the luxury as a Christian to offend me while you're waiting around for God to work those things in you, all in the name of some ridiculous Freegrace doctrine that says if you purposely make an effort to do right that's you not resting in Christ and you trying to save yourself. How absurd. If you believe a doctrine like that YOU ARE DELUDED.

You have no understanding of “ free Grace Doctrine”.....I “ purposely” make efforts to “ do right” because it’s Smart to do so, and it is the “ Reasonable Service” Of Anybody That has been “ Bought with a Price”......Doing the Right Thing pleases the God that Shed His Blood for me . Doing Right is its Own Reward......it will “Please most People and Amaze the Rest” as one wise wag put it.
I do not believe in “ Free Grace” or “ Hyper Grace”.......I Believe in “SUPER” Hyper Grace, so be very careful how you characterize me.I really enjoy being good.....especially to others.....that is Christianity at its core . It’s not often that I compare myself to Jesus, but this much is true—- It was Said Of Jesus, “ He went about Doing Good!” I do that also .....
Be the Best Christian you can be.....try to be as Obedient as you can be ......Try to genuinely love your Neighbor as yourself .....God will bless you for all of these things—- He just won’t Save you or keep you Saved by doing these things....Faith in the Blood alone gets that job done......Try not to confuse Salvation with Sanctification.
Believers are Saved to Serve.....We were created by God to do Good Works and to Bear the Burdens Of Others .......just don’t confuse Service with Salvation.....when one is saved, it is only the Indwelling Holy Spirit That even gives you the “Desire” to do Good.The thing to concentrate on is getting that Spirit.....without it, you are “ None Of His”, and all of your Good Works are “ Filthy Rags”......

 

[jerry63935]

Believe the Gospel.

The pattern is demonstrated by the thief on the cross.


that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. Romans 10:9


Confessing Jesus as Lord is how we obey the Gospel.



Im going to bow out of this thread.


Thanks for your time.



JLB

lol okkkkkkkkkkkk but lets not forget it has to be from the heart romans 10:10

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

These are not new movements, rather it’s the ole dog and pony show that’s been around since the garden of Eden.


Paul calls it, THE LIE.


It’s THE LIE, Satan deceived Eve with in the garden.


THE LIE that says you can live in disobedience to God, and you won’t die.


Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die”.
Genesis 3:4



And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 2 Thessalonians 2:10-11


JLB

THE LIE that says you can live in disobedience to God, and you won’t die.

I don’t say this and I don’t know anyone that does......to the contrary —- nobody at this site talks more about God’s Chastisement than I do. This is how God takes His Foolish , Errant Children and gets them back in line ..... NOT by damning them.If a Sinning Believer ignores his Chastisement , as I have said before,God may decide to prematurely “ take them Home”. God will not be mocked...... Believers can and DO sin every hour of every day, if not in deed, they sin with impure thoughts or by Sins Of Omission. Everybody is free to sin, but NOBODY sins and “ gets away with it”.
As far as Salvation is concerned, God puts the sins of the Believer on the Cross, leaves them there and “ remembers them no more”. Contrarily , here on earth , God does not hesitate to take the sinful Believer “ to the WoodShed.” I have been there.It helps shape my behavior as God transforms me into the Image Of His Son .
Do you, as parents , Disown your Children when they disobey or do you discipline them because you Love them. They may not understand it....they may not like it.....but it is for their own good......this is the same way God Works. He chastises those that He loves.....Damnation is for Unbelievers, not Believers Who occasionally fall victim to “ the Sin That so easily Besets us”....

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

I disagree.
You think the only people in heaven are those that know the Bible or heard the Bible from another?
If you believe that, then you are being judgmental.
Anyone who questions another's salvation because it's not the way YOU believe, that's called being judgmental.
Just how close are you to God?
Does he allow you to judge others' salvation?

No matter where a person gets the Gospel.....it is the Hearing and Believing Of That Gospel,That saves ......God Must “ open the Heart” of any potential Believer to receive the Gospel That Saves them
Paul writes that Believers ARE to Judge anybody who purports to be a Christian and lives a lifestyle of Disobedience.......We, as Believers , are NOT to “ judge those in the World”. THAT is God’s Job, not ours......
The “ closer to God One gets, the farther away you see yourself from Him” . In that sense I am very close to God.....how about you?
As I said earlier, Any Believer is not only “ allowed” to judge those in the Church — He is encouraged to do so......

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

The problem is you have to ask them specifically what they say about the person who believes in Christ, is saved, but then does nothing and even goes back to unbelief. I'd be surprised if you find any church who addresses this very important point in their official doctrinal statement. That's what makes this movement so insidious. I think it's the doctrine through which the church falls away in the end times. It's happening now.

Perhaps if you dig around here you'll find a church that comes right out and says the believer can forsake God and go back to their old life in unbelief and they will be saved when Jesus returns because dead 'faith' saves, too (compare to James 2:14):

Free grace theology - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Probably not, though, because even they know deep down inside that's absurd and that if they come right out and say it up front that will only drive people away from their churches. That's kind of a hallmark of false religions--they keep the truly ugly truths they're really trying to spread hidden away until they've won you over in some other way.

No apologies here, folks, Freegrace doctrine is straight from the pit of hell. Not the sugar coated, acceptable stuff they put on the outside, but the truly ugly stuff they believe but keep concealed until they have you in their grasp.

Hogwash.The Scriptures say that “ even if we are Unfaithful, HE REMAINS FAITHfUL, BECAUSE will NOT go back on His Promises”
God is not going to dismantle His Plan Of Salvation because some Fool violates it.....Any Believer at any time is subject to Falling into Error.....let’s let God handle it.....He knows how to Restore those He Loves.....and His Grace is Amazing.....Lucky for us....we will need just as much of that Grace on the day that we die as we did on the day we were Saved....
The Doctrine That came from Hell is the one that says, “ Jesus Saves—B U T the Burden of “ Keeping” That Salvation falls upon YOUR Shoulders.....The Blood of Jesus is ESSENTIAL for Salvation— it just is not “ Adequate” on its own. I must add to it by my Performance .“ This is the Sin Of Cain..... “ I will ignore what God says— I’m gonna do things MY way”
God says the Gospel Plus NOTHING Saves......Cain’s Spiritual descendants says, “ Nope, the Gospel is not enough and I am going to add to it.....I say the Gospel Plus Repenting Of all of your sins before you die is what it takes to be Saved”......God ain’t gonna put up with this. It’s Nothing But The Blood Of Jesus.

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

Believe the Gospel.

The pattern is demonstrated by the thief on the cross.


that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. Romans 10:9


Confessing Jesus as Lord is how we obey the Gospel.



Im going to bow out of this thread.


Thanks for your time.



JLB

Close , but no cigar......We can’t just take anything and everything that is good and true and call it “ The Gospel” . The Gospel That Saves is “ Paul’s” Gospel Of 1Cor15:1-4, Given to Him by Jesus.Paul said it was This Gospel — HIS Gospel — That we would be judged by.God will want to know if we Trusted in Him and RESTED in it or essentially showed we did not really Believe what He said to be True and insisted on adding to it . Did you give Jesus ALL the credit for your Salvation or did you decide you had to be a “ Co- Savior?” That Dog won’t hunt......turns out God really WAS a “ Jealous” God.He wants Jesus to get ALL of the Credit.Fittingly so....

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Be the Best Christian you can be.....try to be as Obedient as you can be ......Try to genuinely love your Neighbor as yourself .....God will bless you for all of these things—- He just won’t Save you or keep you Saved by doing these things....Faith in the Blood alone gets that job done....

Everybody knows this. This is not where the disagreement lies.
Hyper/Freegracer's know how to say the right things when they need to say the right things.

Hogwash.The Scriptures say that “ even if we are Unfaithful, HE REMAINS FAITHfUL, BECAUSE will NOT go back on His Promises”

Of course that's true. That's what the plain words of scripture say. That's not the part in dispute.
It's the part just before it that hypergracer's deny:

"If we disown him,
he will also disown us;
13if we are faithless,
he remains faithful,
for he cannot disown himself."
2 Timothy 2:12-13

Hyper/Freegrace says the sin of forsaking God in outright unbelief is automatically forgiven, just as any other sin is forgiven. Even though, as we can plainly see, that contradicts the plain words of scripture. They say God's grace is so far reaching it even let's ex-believers remain in the kingdom. That's the 'hyper' part of grace that does not exist. They say, once you are saved, grace even covers the sin of no longer believing in Christ and trampling on the blood that sanctified them. HOGWASH! There will be no unbelievers in the kingdom of God. I can't believe the church has come to the place where it now believes that even unbelievers inherit the kingdom of God.

Now, what happens from here in discussions with hypergracer's is, they twist the plain words of scripture to defend their doctrine, or they will deny that they believe this. Sometimes even they get shocked at what they believe.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Close , but no cigar......We can’t just take anything and everything that is good and true and call it “ The Gospel” . The Gospel That Saves is “ Paul’s” Gospel Of 1Cor15:1-4, Given to Him by Jesus.Paul said it was This Gospel — HIS Gospel — That we would be judged by.God will want to know if we Trusted in Him and RESTED in it or essentially showed we did not really Believe what He said to be True and insisted on adding to it . Did you give Jesus ALL the credit for your Salvation or did you decide you had to be a “ Co- Savior?” That Dog won’t hunt......turns out God really WAS a “ Jealous” God.He wants Jesus to get ALL of the Credit.Fittingly so....

I'm amazed at how so many people can't understand the argument they're resisting.
The argument isn't that works must be present in salvation to earn salvation. Works must be present in salvation because that's what saving faith does in a person.

There is no salvation where there is no evidence of salvation. I'm amazed that so many people in the church do not believe what the Bible says about this. Simply amazed. The church has fallen away into apostasy. We are in the end times apostasy of the church.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

No matter where a person gets the Gospel.....it is the Hearing and Believing Of That Gospel,That saves ......God Must “ open the Heart” of any potential Believer to receive the Gospel That Saves them
Paul writes that Believers ARE to Judge anybody who purports to be a Christian and lives a lifestyle of Disobedience.......We, as Believers , are NOT to “ judge those in the World”. THAT is God’s Job, not ours......
The “ closer to God One gets, the farther away you see yourself from Him” . In that sense I am very close to God.....how about you?
As I said earlier, Any Believer is not only “ allowed” to judge those in the Church — He is encouraged to do so......
But if I haven't been saved according to you, then I am not in your church

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I got saved without the Gospel.
Am I saved or not?

 

[JLB]

I got saved without the Gospel.
Am I saved or not?

When did this occur?


At what age?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I got saved without the Gospel.
Am I saved or not?

Do you have the evidence of salvation in your life?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

what is a free grace movement ?

A.k.a. Hypergrace doctrine.
The belief that even going back to willful, unrepentant unbelief is covered by Jesus for the (ex) believer.

Grace will cover a lot of things, but it won't hyperextend to cover the sin of unrepentant blasphemy of the Holy Spirit and trampling on the blood of Christ.

 

[netchaplain]

Believers never again desire nor will to sin. To professes Christianity and live in willful sin manifests that all that was received was the knowledge of the truth, but not the truth itself. Gnosticism taught that just "knowing" ("receiving" Ro 10:26) the Gospel saves you. One who truly believes truly loves God and manifests it by unceasingly obeying His Word.

"Gnostics considered the principal element of salvation to be direct knowledge of the supreme divinity in the form of mystical or esoteric insight. Many Gnostic texts deal not in concepts of sin and repentance, but with illusion and enlightenment.

Gnostic writings flourished among certain Christian groups in the Mediterranean world until about the second century, when the Fathers of the early Church denounced them as heresy."

Gnosticism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

When did this occur?


At what age?

I already told all that, not too long ago

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Do you have the evidence of salvation in your life?

Being overwhelmed by the Holy Spirit.
Have you ever felt that?
If not, then you could not understand.