Temporal Salvation?

[Jethro Bodine]

nope read them through the Bible it plainly says sealed unto the day of redemption

Yep, that's what it says. And it's true.
But it's only true for believers. Not unbelievers, not ex-believers.

 

[jerry63935]

But it's only true for believers. Not unbelievers, not ex-believers.

if its true for believers where do you come up with not ex-believers. i would like to see scripture that says that ? pertaining to the sealed . your adding to the word

 

[jerry63935]

That's why we resist this doctrine in the church that says you can.

what doctrine ?

 

[jerry63935]

if its true for believers where do you come up with not ex-believers. i would like to see scripture that says that ? pertaining to the sealed . your adding to the word

your grasping at straw puting stipulations in scripture that does not say that

 

[jerry63935]

Jesus said believe is how we are saved.

the devil believes ----------- Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. i thought we had to obey? there is more to it than just believe its from the heart to many have head belief you do a survey of hundred people ask do you believe in jesus in God %90 or better will say yes . does that make them saved believe is only part of it

 

[JLB]

so you never lost your salvation ?

I became lost.

I repented and returned to Him and was restored.


JLB

 

[JLB]

your grasping at straw puting stipulations in scripture that does not say that

Are you arguing with yourself?

 

[JLB]

the devil believes ----------- Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. i thought we had to obey? there is more to it than just believe its from the heart to many have head belief you do a survey of hundred people ask do you believe in jesus in God %90 or better will say yes . does that make them saved believe is only part of it

Yes. Good point.

So now let’s discuss what believe means in the original.

 

[JLB]

if its true for believers where do you come up with not ex-believers. i would like to see scripture that says that ? pertaining to the sealed . your adding to the word

But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13

• who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

These folks did in fact believe, but later they no longer believed and departed from Christ in order to save their natural life from death.


This is an example of an ex-believer.


For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.
Matthew 16:25



JLB

 

[jerry63935]

So now let’s discuss what believe means in the original.

it still has to be from the heart .if its not from the heart then it means nothing

 

[jerry63935]

But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear,

your not getting any place with your parable of the sower . every time i have posted i brought out new scripture . so sorry no cigar

 

[JLB]

it still has to be from the heart .if its not from the heart then it means nothing

Believe in the New Testament is used interchangeably with obey.

The point James makes.


Believing that does not lead to doing what one has heard is useless.

But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. James 1:22


JLB

 

[jerry63935]

This is an example of an ex-believer.


For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.
Matthew 16:25

it is ? where did Jesus say that scripture plz i dont find the term EX BELIEVER in scripture .if the Bible don't say it don't use it . i am only using scripture to present my case . a lawyer will present the evidence . not hear say . we can keep going at this and i will counter with scripture or can agree to disagree . i done email correspondence with a calvinist .that tried every way in the world to convert me.. he gave up i am not asking you to surrender if you wish to continue i am game .

 

[JLB]

your not getting any place with your parable of the sower . every time i have posted i brought out new scripture . so sorry no cigar

I have no idea what this means.

Jesus taught us many things in the parable of the sower.


One of the things He taught us was the condition for salvation is to believe; present tense believing the way He means believing.


Temporary believing equals temporary salvation.


Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:12-13

• who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

We don’t need to wonder if these folks in verse 13 fulfilled the biblical criteria for believing or not because their lifestyle caused them to be persecuted, because they were believers, born again Christians who were being persecuted for their faith in Christ.

Not a faith that was hidden under a basket, but these people were known to be Christians and were therefore being persecuted, because they were Christians.


Brother, if you don’t want to accept what Jesus taught us, then that‘s between you and God.




JLB

 

[jerry63935]

Temporary believing equals temporary salvation.

i asked you to provide scripture that uses Temporary believing equals temporary salvation.

Brother, if you don’t want to accept what Jesus taught us, then that‘s between you and God.

lol there you go again .where did i see i didnt want to accept Christ teaching . what your saying is accept your teaching the words temporary is not listed in the scriptures. when it comes to salvation christ gives us eternal life
John 1:12

“But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:”
John 10:27-29

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.


.

 

[JLB]

i asked you to provide scripture that uses Temporary believing equals temporary salvation.

And I did.

Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:12-13

• lest they should believe and be saved.

Here is verse 12 Jesus explains the reason why these “by the wayside” were not saved... which is because they simply didn’t believe. Believe, the way He means believe, is the condition by which we are saved.

• who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

These in this next group, did in fact believe, and were being persecuted BECAUSE they believed and were Christians.


Under persecution these Christian‘s succumbed to the temptation to save themselves from suffering as a martyr and departed from Christ.


This was not uncommon for Jews who had turned to Christ, to be persecuted by unbelieving Jews who were faithful and fervent to the religion of Judaism, seeking to turn converts of Christ back to Judaism; a religion that does not recognize Jesus as the promised Messiah.


The entire book of Hebrews was written to Jews who had accepted Jesus as Messiah, in order to strengthen them in the faith, by showing who Jesus is; The Son of God, The Messiah.

It also warned them of departing from Christ, and turning back to Judaism.


Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, Hebrews 3:12-14

• lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God;

See this word “unbelief” in this context?


It refers to what Jethro Bodine was talking about when he said “ex-believers”.

• lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God;

It refers to someone who was “in Christ”, then after a while they
”departed from” Christ, the living God.

• For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end.

This is the same exact principle Jesus taught in the parable of the sower.


See this word “confidence” in verse 14?

This is the same word as “substance” in Hebrews 11:1.

It refers to faith; the substance of the thing hoped for...

It’s the substance of our salvation we have in Christ, which we will receive at the end of our faith on the day of Judgement, if we
hold on to it steadfast to the end.


IOW’s we must have faith steadfast to the end in order to receive the salvation we are believing for.


Paul teaches the same thing in 1 Corinthians 15, which I will let
Jethro Bodine explain in the way he so eloquently does.


Do you believe a person who believes for a while then falls away from Christ is still saved?



JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

no place in scripture does it say live how we want do as we want or act like we want .

That's why we resist this doctrine in the church that says you can.

what doctrine ?

The one that says you can act anyway you want and believe anything you want and even go back to unbelief and you are still saved and sealed with the Holy Spirit.

if its true for believers where do you come up with not ex-believers. i would like to see scripture that says that ? pertaining to the sealed . your adding to the word

You're the one adding to the word by defining 'sealed' as 'unable to be unsealed' as if that's the definition of the word.

Here's what happens to sanctified saved believers who trample on the blood of Christ:

"26If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” d and again, “The Lord will judge his people.” e 31It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." - Hebrews 10:26-31

You're deluded if you think you can live in purposeful sin as a 'Christian' because salvation is not by works. Real faith has real works attached to it. That's not a works gospel. That's just saying what the Bible says. The faith that justifies all by itself apart from works is the faith that finds it's expression in works (Galatians 5:6).

The truly saved person is a changed/changing person. The ex-believer willfully living in their old life, if he does not come back to his senses, is going to hell with the rest of God's enemies, not being ushered into the kingdom of God.

Wake up church! Don't let your willful sin, done in the name of God's grace, cause you to go to the left at the judgment and into the lake of fire instead of to the right and into the kingdom of God (Matthew 25:41-43).

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him. Hebrews 5:9


Eternal salvation is conditional upon obeying Him.





JLB

Help me here.
Where is temporary salvation in Scripture?
I never heard of it.
Is it something that people make up and then others believe it?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

And I did.

Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:12-13

• lest they should believe and be saved.

Here is verse 12 Jesus explains the reason why these “by the wayside” were not saved... which is because they simply didn’t believe. Believe, the way He means believe, is the condition by which we are saved.

• who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

These in this next group, did in fact believe, and were being persecuted BECAUSE they believed and were Christians.


Under persecution these Christian‘s succumbed to the temptation to save themselves from suffering as a martyr and departed from Christ.


This was not uncommon for Jews who had turned to Christ, to be persecuted by unbelieving Jews who were faithful and fervent to the religion of Judaism, seeking to turn converts of Christ back to Judaism; a religion that does not recognize Jesus as the promised Messiah.


The entire book of Hebrews was written to Jews who had accepted Jesus as Messiah, in order to strengthen them in the faith, by showing who Jesus is; The Son of God, The Messiah.

It also warned them of departing from Christ, and turning back to Judaism.


Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, Hebrews 3:12-14

• lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God;

See this word “unbelief” in this context?


It refers to what Jethro Bodine was talking about when he said “ex-believers”.

• lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God;

It refers to someone who was “in Christ”, then after a while they
”departed from” Christ, the living God.

• For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end.

This is the same exact principle Jesus taught in the parable of the sower.


See this word “confidence” in verse 14?

This is the same word as “substance” in Hebrews 11:1.

It refers to faith; the substance of the thing hoped for...

It’s the substance of our salvation we have in Christ, which we will receive at the end of our faith on the day of Judgement, if we
hold on to it steadfast to the end.


IOW’s we must have faith steadfast to the end in order to receive the salvation we are believing for.


Paul teaches the same thing in 1 Corinthians 15, which I will let
Jethro Bodine explain in the way he so eloquently does.


Do you believe a person who believes for a while then falls away from Christ is still saved?



JLB

1 John 2:19;
They went out from us, but did not really belong to us. For if they belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that NONE of them belonged to us.

John is saying that none of them were saved to begin with.
How did he know?
"Their going showed that none of them belonged to us".

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

The one that says you can act anyway you want and believe anything you want and even go back to unbelief and you are still saved and sealed with the Holy Spirit.


You're the one adding to the word by defining 'sealed' as 'unable to be unsealed' as if that's the definition of the word.

Here's what happens to sanctified saved believers who trample on the blood of Christ:

"26If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” d and again, “The Lord will judge his people.” e 31It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." - Hebrews 10:26-31

You're deluded if you think you can live in purposeful sin as a 'Christian' because salvation is not by works. Real faith has real works attached to it. That's not a works gospel. That's just saying what the Bible says. The faith that justifies all by itself apart from works is the faith that finds it's expression in works (Galatians 5:6).

The truly saved person is a changed/changing person. The ex-believer willfully living in their old life, if he does not come back to his senses, is going to hell with the rest of God's enemies, not being ushered into the kingdom of God.

Wake up church! Don't let your willful sin, done in the name of God's grace, cause you to go to the left at the judgment and into the lake of fire instead of to the right and into the kingdom of God (Matthew 25:41-43).

You make a good point when you say "Wake up church"!
But to group everyone into categories as you always do thinking that certain beliefs are believed the same by all people that you put into a certain category, that's inane.
I can believe in OSAS for a totally different reason than why someone else might believe it.
But you put us all in the same category.
When you talk that way, I have to question everything you say.