Temporal Salvation?

[Rollo Tamasi]

Do you have the evidence of salvation in your life?

I went to a church that told no salvation message and gave no altar calls.
However, one day I decided that Jesus really was God and in prayer I asked him into my heart.
At that moment I felt the over-whelming presence of the Spirit of God.
Someone had to explain it to me and told me I was saved.
And yes, I knew then that I was saved.
The church didn't offer a baptism until 6 months later at their annual baptism ceremony.
I was excited and I couldn't wait to take that next step.
Regardless of how the church did things, I knew I was saved without the baptism.

 

[JLB]

Believers never again desire nor will to sin. To professes Christianity and live in willful sin manifests that all that was received was the knowledge of the truth, but not the truth itself. Gnosticism taught that just "knowing" ("receiving" Ro 10:26) the Gospel saves you. One who truly believes truly loves God and manifests it by unceasingly obeying His Word.

I wish that were true.


Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?
Romans 6:16

I think you know as well as all of us, we have to daily crucify the sinful desires of the flesh or run the risk of becoming a slave again to sin.

I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness. Romans 6:19


We who have been born again and empowered by His Spirit must make the conscience choice to walk in the Spirit, so that we do not fulfill the lust of the flesh.


I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Galatians 5:16



JLB

 

[jerry63935]

The belief that even going back to willful, unrepentant unbelief is covered by Jesus

our sins are covered but imo to willfully withdraw in unrepentens . never return could spell not saved .if there is no conviction and ignoring it could very well spell illegitimate child that is not grace the above defined

 

[jerry63935]

Regardless of how the church did things, I knew I was saved without the baptism.

that is why its called a know so salvation

 

[jerry63935]

I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Galatians 5:16

agreed lust does not have to be sexual lust can be a desire see a pretty gal shapes in all the right places if not careful thoughts out of character .. even a temptation to get angry be ye angry and sin not.. ouch i get angry i sin.. our walk is very important .the old flesh can happen

 

[GodsGrace]

The problem is you have to ask them specifically what they say about the person who believes in Christ, is saved, but then does nothing and even goes back to unbelief. I'd be surprised if you find any church who addresses this very important point in their official doctrinal statement. That's what makes this movement so insidious. I think it's the doctrine through which the church falls away in the end times. It's happening now.

Perhaps if you dig around here you'll find a church that comes right out and says the believer can forsake God and go back to their old life in unbelief and they will be saved when Jesus returns because dead 'faith' saves, too (compare to James 2:14):

Free grace theology - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Probably not, though, because even they know deep down inside that's absurd and that if they come right out and say it up front that will only drive people away from their churches. That's kind of a hallmark of false religions--they keep the truly ugly truths they're really trying to spread hidden away until they've won you over in some other way.

No apologies here, folks, Freegrace doctrine is straight from the pit of hell. Not the sugar coated, acceptable stuff they put on the outside, but the truly ugly stuff they believe but keep concealed until they have you in their grasp.

Someone on this very forum has said exactly what you state above.
And not only here....on other forums too.

I feel like they believe to just tell people what they want to hear....

2 Timothy 4:3-4
3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires,
4and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.

 

[GodsGrace]

You are probably right, no arguments here.
But who cares really?
People either have a relationship with Jesus or they don't.
Preach the truth to them and let them decide.

Just want to say that I think new Christians need to be helped along and
led into the real gospel...not some made-up gospel to increase church attendance.

Many hate the truth (obedience) because they want to think they're Christian but
still do whatever they want to do.

 

[GodsGrace]

The Gospel , which is Paul’s Gospel Of 1 Cor 15:1-4 Given to Paul by Jesus Personally is not something to be “obeyed “ .....it is a Promise to be Believed....
I invite everybody here to google “ Harry ironside gospel” .....find out what the Good News is NOT! That is just as important as what it IS.....

Why is it Paul's gospel?
The 4 gospels were written about JESUS.
I do believe it's the gospel of Jesus.

WHO sets the standard for Christianity?
Paul or Jesus?

As to the gospel not being something to be obeyed:

Matthew 28:20
20teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”

What did Jesus command?
He said to observe ALL THAT I COMMANDED YOU...
ALL
THAT I COMMANDED.

ALL sounds like more than just one sentence.

 

[GodsGrace]

The most understandable and encouraging attribute concerning salvation is that of its permanency, after all, it is called “eternal salvation” (Heb 5:9). What part of salvation is temporary, seeing that one of the meanings of redemption is that of being saved from “eternal damnation” (Mar 3:29). Is it a sensible truism that one can be eternally saved and then not eternally saved? Thus being temporarily saved from “everlasting punishment” (Mat 25:46) is clearly a concept of an oxymoron?

Jesus said one can be temporarily saved because he believed FOR A WHILE...

Luke 8.13
13“Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away.

They believe for a while...
they believe temporarily.
They are saved for a while....

We are eternally saved ONLY IF WE ARE IN CHRIST....
John 15:6
6“If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I went to a church that told no salvation message and gave no altar calls.
However, one day I decided that Jesus really was God and in prayer I asked him into my heart.
At that moment I felt the over-whelming presence of the Spirit of God.
Someone had to explain it to me and told me I was saved.
And yes, I knew then that I was saved.
The church didn't offer a baptism until 6 months later at their annual baptism ceremony.
I was excited and I couldn't wait to take that next step.
Regardless of how the church did things, I knew I was saved without the baptism.

This is my testimony too, except I did hear the gospel. Several times.
I sensed the Spirit coming into my body the moment I got done asking God to receive me in salvation. I got water baptized 3 months or so later.

 

[netchaplain]

I wish that were true.

Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?
Romans 6:16

My Brother, this passage is descriptive of those regenerated and those who are unregenerate, both of whose actions are for identification proposes, and neither can ever serve both, it's one or the other (Mat 6:24 ); and the sense is in consideration of permanent positions and choices. It identifies who and what we are by what choice we make, God or self. Notice verse 18, “ye became the servants of righteousness”; verse 20, "ye were the servants of sin."

Though one may not understand these positions, they are yet true and permanent for every genuine believer!

I think you know as well as all of us, we have to daily crucify the sinful desires of the flesh or run the risk of becoming a slave again to sin.

I know what you mean here, but I think it's more that our sin nature is already crucified by Christ's Cross (at the moment of faith), which is a one-time permanent occurrence (Ro 6:6), but "putting" it "off" will be a continuous action for the believer, as we "through the power of the Spirit put to death the deeds of your sinful nature" (Rom 8:13 NLT).

 

[JLB]

My Brother, this passage is descriptive of those regenerated and those who are unregenerate,

The context Is clear, Paul is speaking to those who are not under the law, but under grace?

Do you believe unregenerate people are under grace? No sir.


What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? Romans 6:15-16


Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?


This message is echoed loud and clear throughput the New Testament.


Only born again ChristIan’s who have a new nature with the Holy Spirit indwelling them, have the ability to walk according to the Spirit; to present themselves as a slave of righteousness and to crucify the flesh.


It’s a choice. Only born again Christians have this choice.


Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:12-13

• For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

JLB

 

[jerry63935]

Do you believe unregenerate people are under grace? No sir.

the unregenerate is those who have never been saved

 

[jerry63935]

there is no such thing as temporary salvation .your either saved or your not . my GOD saves to the uttermost .he gives us eternal life .not temporary

 

[netchaplain]

The context Is clear, Paul is speaking to those who are not under the law, but under grace?

Do you believe unregenerate people are under grace? No sir.

What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death (unregenerate) or of obedience leading to righteousness (regenerate).

Those who remain unregenerate are those who remain "carnal minded" and will end in the second death. Those who are regenerate are those who remain "spiritually minded" which ends in eternal life (Ro 8:6).

Not sure what point you're trying to make, but mine is that when Scripture refers to those in sin, the sense is usually that of final sin; and those in righteousness, final righteousness.

 

[JLB]

What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death (unregenerate) or of obedience leading to righteousness (regenerate).

Those who remain unregenerate are those who remain "carnal minded" and will end in the second death. Those who are regenerate are those who remain "spiritually minded" which ends in eternal life (Ro 8:6).

Not sure what point you're trying to make, but mine is that when Scripture refers to those in sin, the sense is usually that of final sin; and those in righteousness, final righteousness.

Paul is addressing born again Christians who are under grace.

What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? Romans 6:15-16

Born again Christians who are under grace, are warned that to whom they present themselves a slave to obey, they are that ones slave, whether sin or unrighteousness.

So plain and simple a child could understand.


Sorry bro, but Paul is addressing the Church at Rome, and plainly, clearly and without a shadow of a doubt refers to Christians, who Paul is exhorting to no longer present their physical body as a slave of in righteousness like they used to as an unbeliever, SO NOW present your physical body as a slave of righteousness.


I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness. Romans 6:19


It’s so sad that the plain words of scripture aren’t understood by those who are supposed to be ministers.



JLB

 

[netchaplain]

Paul is addressing born again Christians who are under grace.

What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? Romans 6:15-16

Born again Christians who are under grace, are warned that to whom they present themselves a slave to obey, they are that ones slave, whether sin or unrighteousness.

To me the passage is demonstrating that believers will "certainly not" willfully sin, because they are under grace. The phrase "do you not know to whom you present" does not show suspicion that believers might obey sin, but that "to whom you obey is to whom is your master. Willfully obeying sin is descriptive only of the unregenerate. Our understanding here is clearly different.

 

[JLB]

To me the passage is demonstrating that believers will "certainly not" willfully sin, because they are under grace. The phrase "do you not know to whom you present" does not show suspicion that believers might obey sin, but that "to whom you obey is to whom is your master. Willfully obeying sin is descriptive only of the unregenerate. Our understanding here is clearly different.

To sin or not is a choice.

The choice is to pick up a Bible or pick up a porn magazine.

To present your eyes to look at something lustful or something godly.

To go to a bar or go to Church.

To watch something godly on tv that stimulates righteousness and inspires obedience to the Lord, or to watch something that stimulates sinful desires.


Paul explains that sin in our flesh, in our physical body, will take the lead if we give it an opportunity.
We are not to give it the opportunity, we are not to present ourselves as a slave to obey the sinful desires of our flesh, but rather we are present ourselves as slaves of obedience to our Lord who dwells within us


Shall we chose to sin? Certainly not.


What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? Romans 6:15-16


Surely you understand we all have the liberty to make choices each and every day.


We must make the choice to invest our time and energy towards strengthening our spirit, our inner man, in sowing to the desires of the Spirit, rather than sowing to the desires of our flesh.


Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life. Galatians 6:7-8

• he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption,
• but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.

The choice is to walk according to the flesh or walk according to the Spirit.


There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1

This statement is made to those who are in Christ Jesus.

Unregenerate people don’t have this choice as they don’t have the Spirit dwelling within them.


Those who are in Christ, must make the choice to walk according to the Spirit, rather than walk according to the flesh.



JLB

 

[netchaplain]

To sin or not is a choice. Paul explains that sin in our flesh, in our physical body, will take the lead if we give it an opportunity.

Just want you to know I appreciate your zeal for God and is encouraging! Your comment here can only apply to the unregenerate, which are those who do not have the Father "working in them" (Phl 2:13), and believers need to understand more clearly the meaning and impact of this "work." Before rebirth we were our own and made choices out of our will and nature alone, which was always sin and death related (Rom 8:6) and having a "conscience" containing "nothing pure" (Tit 1:15). It was at this time when we could "resist God" (Act 7:51), or choose Him" (Deu 30:19).

After rebirth we no longer are "our own" (1Co 6:19) and most of our choices are no longer from our will and nature but from God's will and nature of Christ (Col 3:10; 2Pe 1:4). If we hear the Gospel of Christ and choose not to believe it, we will continue to "sin willfully" (Heb 10:26), manifesting unregeneracy; regardless of one's profession and seemingly acts of the Spirit's fruit.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

If we hear the Gospel of Christ and choose not to believe it, we will continue to "sin willfully" (Heb 10:26), manifesting unregeneracy; regardless of one's profession and seemingly acts of the Spirit's fruit.

The willfully sinning person who ends up going to hell in Hebrews 10 is a saved, sanctified person. We know that because the author himself defines 'sanctified' right in the chapter:

"10By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all." - Hebrews 10:10

"14For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified." - Hebrews 10:14

"26For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES. 28Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?" - Hebrews 10:26-29 (Capitals and italics in original)