Temporal Salvation?

[Jethro Bodine]

If you choose to be stiffed - necked about these verses , that’s fine by me .Newbies.....please spare yourselves years of wasted fear about these “ scary” verses.

The exhortation is to continue to believe, not continue to work to earn your salvation.
Don't mislead new Christians into thinking they don't have to fear going back to unbelief and it's consequences.
Here's what Jesus said about people who cause newbies who believe in him to stumble so as to go to hell:

"42“If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them if a large millstone were hung around their neck and they were thrown into the sea. 43If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out. [44] b 45And if your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell. [46] c 47And if your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, 48where

“ ‘the worms that eat them do not die,
and the fire is not quenched.’ d" - Mark 9:42-48

 

[Jethro Bodine]

If you believe that Jesus is The Son Of God That is proof that you are “ Abiding in Him”...1John 4:15.....

If you use 1 John 4:15 all by itself as proof that a person is abiding in Christ then there is no such thing as fake brethren.

A confession of Christ can not stand alone as a proof of salvation. For John also said, "This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child" (1 John 3:10). So we know that the person who confesses Christ but does not do as he says is not of God. You can not isolate 1 John 4:15 away from the rest of what John said about proof of salvation. That's called not rightly dividing the word of God.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Do demons receive the word with joy in their believing?

"19You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder." - James 2:19

"13Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away." - Luke 13:8

(Good point wondering)

It's unreasonable that 'believe' is in reference to being saved in vs. 12 but then suddenly is not in vs. 13...

"12Those along the path are the ones who hear, and then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved. 13Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away." - Luke 8:12-13

Certainly they believe, with their heads and not their hearts,
Why else would they fall away.
I don't believe this debate is about losing one's salvation, but rather about each individuals own personal relation with God.

 

[JLB]

You can not isolate 1 John 4:15 away from the rest of what John said about proof of salvation. That's called not rightly dividing the word of God.

We have all seen this pattern of behavior from those who have simply closed their eyes to the truth, and refuse to address all the scriptures that pertain to this subject.

An honest person is willing to acknowledge a simple question about salvation, such as ....

believe and be saved.

Jesus plainly said believe and be saved, yet in the next verse believe doesn’t somehow mean what Jesus so plainly said it means.

Truly sad.



JLB

 

[JLB]

Certainly they believe, with their heads and not their hearts,
Why else would they fall away.
I don't believe this debate is about losing one's salvation, but rather about each individuals own personal relation with God.

Jesus said believe (the kind of believing He means) equals being saved. That should be evident to a person who is honestly wanting to receive the truth.


Why in the next verse would Jesus be referring to some other kind of believing?

The answer is: He wouldn’t.


Wake up brother, please!

Please stop playing games with God’s word and the salvation of your soul.


JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Certainly they believe, with their heads and not their hearts,
Why else would they fall away.
I don't believe this debate is about losing one's salvation, but rather about each individuals own personal relation with God.

They received the word with joy.
That's a heart thing.

We're free to talk about whether the 2nd type of soil represents a truly saved person or not. From there one is free to see the implications that has in regard to OSAS.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Why else would they fall away.

The passage plainly tells us why.
They fall away because of the trials and temptations of this life.

"21But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away." - Matthew 13:21

 

[Jethro Bodine]

It doesn't say there ARE born agains who do this. It is a warning to the flesh side of us to "keep it in line" and don't make a mockery of the Spirit.

It's not a theoretical warning.
Some Spirit filled, truly saved people do in fact trample on the blood of Christ.
I personally know one who did.
And it's no surprise this person was not a 4th type of soil believer.
As Jesus points out, it is the immature soils (#2 and 3) that are in the most danger of not believing and casting the word of God out from the soil of their hearts because of the trials and temptations of this life.
I find it hard to imagine a person not wanting to continue in God's forgiveness, but it's important that we not project our desire to continue to believe onto others and recognize that the Bible talks about, and warns, those who don't want to continue to believe to the very end.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

The passage plainly tells us why.
They fall away because of the trials and temptations of this life.

"21But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away." - Matthew 13:21

You two are roller coasting your way to hell.
If you say you believe something enough, it will surely happen.
You say "be sure you don't lose your salvation" over and over again.

“Therefore let us pursue the things which make for peace and the things by which one may edify another” (Romans 14:19).

How does anything you two are saying edify believers?

“Now concerning things offered to idols: We know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffs up, but love edifies” (1 Corinthians 8:1).

I see the knowledge that is puffing you up, but I don't see the love that edifies.

You two speak softly, as though you are very sure of yourselves.
You make your points as though no other could possibly right.
I sense haughtiness in your answers.

When I say the Holy Spirit has a seal on me along with 7 other verses saying the same thing.
But you claim that is meaningless because it does not support your reasoning.

I see no reason to continue.
I see no reason to be told I am wrong about everything.
I must be one really stupid Christian, if I'm eve a real Christian by your standards.

I think I'll stick with music.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

You say "be sure you don't lose your salvation" over and over again.

Actually, I'm saying, "be sure to keep believing". The very thing the Bible itself exhorts us to do.
From there each of us is free to examine the implications that has in regard to OSAS.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I must be one really stupid Christian, if I'm eve a real Christian by your standards.

No, you're not stupid.
I might argue that you are deceived, but so are many, many Christians.
And I do consider you a real Christian.

We are in the great deception of the end-times.
And that deception does revolve around this subject of continuing to believe to the very end.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I think I'll stick with music.

 

[JLB]

You two are roller coasting your way to hell.
If you say you believe something enough, it will surely happen.
You say "be sure you don't lose your salvation" over and over again.

“Therefore let us pursue the things which make for peace and the things by which one may edify another” (Romans 14:19).

How does anything you two are saying edify believers?

“Now concerning things offered to idols: We know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffs up, but love edifies” (1 Corinthians 8:1).

I see the knowledge that is puffing you up, but I don't see the love that edifies.

You two speak softly, as though you are very sure of yourselves.
You make your points as though no other could possibly right.
I sense haughtiness in your answers.

When I say the Holy Spirit has a seal on me along with 7 other verses saying the same thing.
But you claim that is meaningless because it does not support your reasoning.

I see no reason to continue.
I see no reason to be told I am wrong about everything.
I must be one really stupid Christian, if I'm eve a real Christian by your standards.

I think I'll stick with music.

We have said none of what you claim.

He is what Jesus said, which is what I say.


Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
Luke 8:12

• lest they should believe and be saved.

Believe, and to believe the way Jesus means, equals being saved.


I can confidently say this because Jesus says so.


The only here that seems to disagree with Jesus is you.


If you don’t believe Jesus then who are you going to believe?


JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I don't believe this debate is about losing one's salvation, but rather about each individuals own personal relation with God.

You're definitely right about this.
Instead of broad stroking all believers into the category of those who will never stop believing, I've come to the conclusion, because of the Parable of the Sower, that whether or not any one believer will stop believing is dependent on the individual believer himself.

You aren't immune to falling away into unbelief by virtue of being a true believer.
You are immune to falling back into unbelief if the soil of your heart is right.
Only 4th type of soil believers can begin to make any boast of never going back to the world in unbelief.

And just for the record, as highly as I've thought of my relationship with God all through these 34 years as a believer, I now have to honestly say I've spent most of that time in the third type of soil, choked out by the worries and pleasures of this life, and how that condition actually puts me in danger of no longer believing in the salvation I was so sure I'd never, ever let go of. The warnings in the Bible are not trite, theoretical warnings. They are very real, and they apply to all of us. Just make sure you nurture the 4th type of soil in yourself so that you'll have what it takes to persevere to the very end.

 

[Edward]

No, you're not stupid.
I might argue that you are deceived, but so are many, many Christians.
And I do consider you a real Christian.

We are in the great deception of the end-times.
And that deception does revolve around this subject of continuing to believe to the very end.

I agree with you Brother, but something struck me a little odd when I read these, your words in this post. Something about those words coming from that face (in your avatar)...I got this flash picture of you standing in an old dusty grocery store talking to an old man at the counter...

Not sure yet if it was cryptic or just extremely humorous. 2
Isn't Jesus great, the way He can turn things around like that?!

 

[JLB]

They are very real, and they apply to all of us. Just make sure you nurture the 4th type of soil in yourself so that you'll have what it takes to persevere to the very end.

What I have grown to understand over the years, is the fourth type of heart condition that promotes fruitfulness is understanding.


It’s the understanding that heart condition 2 and 3 will cause us to be unfruitful.


It’s the understanding that we must continue to believe, and believe the way Jesus means for us to believe which involves obeying Him to love God and love our neighbor.



But he who received seed on the good ground is he who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and produces: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.”
Matthew 13:23




JLB

 

[JLB]

I agree with you Brother, but something struck me a little odd when I read these, your words in this post. Something about those words coming from that face (in your avatar)...I got this flash picture of you standing in an old dusty grocery store talking to an old man at the counter...

Not sure yet if it was cryptic or just extremely humorous. 2
Isn't Jesus great, the way He can turn things around like that?!

Amen.

 

[GodsGrace]

Demons believe that Jesus is God .
Are they saved?
Are they saved for a while?
Were they never saved?

You don't have the answers.
So what are you talking about?

Demons believe that Jesus is God.
They don't believe like a born again believer does.
They have only the mental assent you were speaking of.
There's no way in the English language to distinguish between the
two beliefs...so we have to go by context.
The demons believed Jesus IS God and they trembled...
They knew in their mind that Jesus is God and that He had dominion over them.

Were they ever saved?
Yes. According to the O.T. some angels decided to leave heaven and disobey God.
They were saved, but then became unsaved when they became bad angels, or demons.

We don't have all of the answers, but we have some.
And some are above.

At one time ALL angels were good angels,,,
but then they revolted and became bad angels.

They were saved,,,,
but then became lost.

 

[jerry63935]

So it’s ok to murder, steal, lie, sexual immorality...?

Your “Harry Ironside Gospel” is another man made Gospel.

i realize your ignoring me and that is ok but the answer to your question the 4 big sins/evils . no it's NOT OK.. that is a silly question . even men like Charles stanley teach it is not ok. could a child of God commit these ? anything is possible .if the heart is right they will take care of it. if they refuse to take care of it odds are they was never saved to start with.the Holy Spirit will prick hearts take you to God wood shed. But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons. Hebrews 12:8 paul in corinthians listed the works of the flesh that is found in galatians he scorned them for taking each other to court. ater he listed them.. he then wrote .
1 Corinthians 6:11

“And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.”

there is real wheat and then there is darnell wheat it looks acts just like the real thing. only way to seperate it is at harvest. . i did a funeral service yesterday.. did all i could to offer a hope beyond this life. i told them i was not there to preach anyone into eternity or out of eternity. eternal life and the eternal lake of fire.

if i was to guess about half there "small crowd " half was lost i don't even know where the deceased stood. we can only present the Gospel. God will take care of the rest.............how soon we forget

 

[LovethroughDove]

It's not a theoretical warning.
Some Spirit filled, truly saved people do in fact trample on the blood of Christ.
I personally know one who did.
And it's no surprise this person was not a 4th type of soil believer.
As Jesus points out, it is the immature soils (#2 and 3) that are in the most danger of not believing and casting the word of God out from the soil of their hearts because of the trials and temptations of this life.
I find it hard to imagine a person not wanting to continue in God's forgiveness, but it's important that we not project our desire to continue to believe onto others and recognize that the Bible talks about, and warns, those who don't want to continue to believe to the very end.

The only born again believers are soil #4......they are the only ones that have been given the Spirit, so not surprising that all they other ones fell away.

It explains this right here: Luke 8:11-12 "This is the meaning of the parable: The seed is the word of God. Those along the path are the ones who hear, and then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved.

The other soils believed "something" about the "word", but it wouldn't take root. You see it in the majority of people! There is a belief that saves and they did not get there!

John 6:29 Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."

This is super-natural revelation from God! Matthew 16:16-17 Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven."

1 John 4:2-3 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

Romans 10:9 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

All the other soils did not get to this point in their faith. They believed some of the word, but it didn't get into their soul. Let me put it this way........You can't unsee something if you have already seen it. Meaning, if you have been given the Spirit of truth and revelation......It is not going to leave you.

I don't like the comparison of demons know who Jesus is, because that is completely irrelevant. It's not about demons knowing who he is, it's about the light coming into the world. The Christ is what is important here. The Christ is born of flesh, do people really know who Jesus is and what the Christ has accomplished?