Temporal Salvation?

[JLB]

Don’t Flunk YOUR Test by not Resting in the Gospel Of Grace

Please share the scripture that says we are to rest in the Gospel of grace, so we can discuss it.

 

[JLB]

i fully understand the topic you just reject what i say on the topic. what your saying is they are lost again and need to be saved again .no this is not my first rodeo on the topic. for a while

Jerry, I’m asking you to address my post and the subject matter I’m discussing.

I need to know that you actually understand the subject matter.

If you refuse to engage in honest dialog with me, and the subject matter I’m discussing then there is no need to continue the discussion since you don’t understand what we are discussing.


One more time. Please address my post honestly —


Jesus teaches us the condition for a person to be saved.



Jesus said believe (the kind of believing He means) equals being saved.

Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12

• lest they should believe and be saved.

Why in the next verse would Jesus be referring to some other kind of believing?

The answer is: He wouldn’t


In the next verse He describes a different set of circumstances which is persecution. Believers are being persecuted. The reason they are being persecuted is because they are indeed believers, Christians, followers of Christ.

But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13

We don’t need to try and speculate about whether or not these folks who are being persecuted for being Christians, are believers or not, because they are in fact being persecuted for being believers.

• who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

How can a person possibly fall away from Christ, that never believed in the first place?


When you understand that Jesus is talking about believers being persecuted and the temptation they succumb to is the temptation to stop the persecution by turning away from Christ, then you understand that these people that Jesus is describing are indeed believers.




JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Stop “ Trying” to live right—- start TRUSTING to live Right.......God will not Save anyone Trying to be Saved ...

You don't try to live right to earn salvation.
You try to live right BECAUSE you believe and are saved.

Living right (Ephesians 4:1- 6:9, Colossians 3:1-4:6, for example) is not how you make yourself righteous. It's how the faith by which you were made righteous is expressed (Galatians 5:6). You seem to only be able to understand 'trying to do right' as you trying to make yourself righteous. You are the victim of a very deceitful spirit in the church at this present time.

You seek to do right because, by faith, against all that you can see and feel, you know that sin has been defeated and no longer rules over you. That's the faith of Abraham, who "Against all hope...in hope believed". But you call that unbelief.

 

[jerry63935]

Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12

• lest they should believe and be saved.

you keep using this same scripture wayside is hard pan packed dirt . its packed tight nothing can grow .but since you want to stay with this inly scripture and over look all the other scriptures i have gave . then maybe its best to no longer respond

 

[jerry63935]

Jerry, I’m asking you to address my post and the subject matter I’m discussing.

I need to know that you actually understand the subject matter.

If you refuse to engage in honest dialog with me, and the subject matter I’m discussing then there is no need to continue the discussion since you don’t understand what we are discussing.


One more time. Please address my post honestly —


Jesus teaches us the condition for a person to be saved.

how many more times do you want me to address it? take off and go back through all my post .you will find where i have addressed and most of it i used different scriptures each time.. in essence you want to to throw up the white flag and agree with you. see the other part of the issue at hand is this --> { since you don’t understand what we are discussing.} in other words i am wrong and dont know what i am talking about. i fully understand dont treat me like a novice many things i dont understand .but i study them out so i can... this subject i fully understand . everyone has there own personAL DOCTRINE..

 

[jerry63935]

You don't try to live right to earn salvation.
You try to live right BECAUSE you are saved.

AGREED

 

[Jethro Bodine]

you keep using this same scripture wayside is hard pan packed dirt . its packed tight nothing can grow .but since you want to stay with this inly scripture and over look all the other scriptures i have gave . then maybe its best to no longer respond

Let me help you understand what he's saying.

In Luke 8:12 'believe' is in direct reference to being saved. But then it's argued that in vs. 13 'believe' is suddenly now not in reference to being saved. Obviously, this is done to preserve a predetermined doctrine. That predetermined doctrine is being used to unreasonably redefine 'believe' in verse 13 away from what Jesus just defined it as in vs. 12.

 

[jerry63935]

Let me help you understand what he's saying.

thank you but i fully understand what he is saying

 

[Jethro Bodine]

thank you but i fully understand what he is saying

Perhaps you can explain how we are to think that 'believe' is in reference to salvation in vs. 12, but then suddenly is not in reference to salvation in vs. 13.

 

[JLB]

how many more times do you want me to address it? take off and go back through all my post .you will find where i have addressed and most of it i used different scriptures each time.. in essence you want to to throw up the white flag and agree with you. see the other part of the issue at hand is this --> { since you don’t understand what we are discussing.} in other words i am wrong and dont know what i am talking about. i fully understand dont treat me like a novice many things i dont understand .but i study them out so i can... this subject i fully understand . everyone has there own personAL DOCTRINE..

Since you have not actually addressed anything in my post, nor the scripture I have given, nor the subject matter which is:
Christians being persecuted BECAUSE they are Christians, and falling away from Christ; departing from Christ to save their natural life and stopping the persecution, I can only conclude that either you do understand the subject matter, or you are willfully ignoring it.


Either way you now see the reason I know it’s a waste of time to engage with you in any kind of honest dialog.


You keep saying you fully understand, or everyone has their own doctrine.


Jerry these are the words of scripture, the words of Jesus Christ.

• This is the teaching, the doctrine of Jesus Christ.

Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:12-13


When anyone hears the word of the kingdom, and does not understand it, then the wicked one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is he who received seed by the wayside. But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles. Matthew 13:19-21

• but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles.

• who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

Do you understand that this second group is being persecuted because they are believers; followers of Jesus Christ ?

Do you understand what stumbles means, here in this context?

Do you understand what fall away means here in this context?


JLB

 

[JLB]

surely you understand there is NO SUCH thing as temporary salvation .its NOT in the scriptures man kind can and will believe how they want . proverbs 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
wayside rocky ground thorns all represent type hearers . no seed will ever grow... the old saying in one ear and out the other

This continues to show you don’t understand that the 2nd group is being persecuted because they are believers: followers of Christ.



JLB

 

[jerry63935]

This continues to show you don’t understand that the 2nd group is being persecuted because they are believers: followers of Christ.



JLB

its not your job to tell me what i do and don't understand this is your problem i am wrong because i dont line up with you

5 A sower went out to sow his seed: and as he sowed, some fell by the way side; and it was trodden down, and the fowls of the air devoured it.

6 And some fell upon a rock; and as soon as it was sprung up, it withered away, because it lacked moisture.

7 And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprang up with it, and choked it.

8 And other fell on good ground, and sprang up, and bare fruit an hundredfold. And when he had said these things, he cried, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.


11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.

12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest (never had it } they should believe and be saved.

13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away. there was no real rooted and grounded --no root no fruit ..not fruit never saved

14 And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.

15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.
maybe its use who fails to understand

 

[JLB]

13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away. there was no real rooted and grounded --no root no fruit ..not fruit never saved

Sorry Jerry, they were persecuted for being Christians.

But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles. Matthew 13:20-21

• For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles.

Their heart was shallow. They were cowardly.

They succumbed to the temptation to turn away from Christ because they were being persecuted as Christians.

They renounced Christ while under persecution.


He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:7-8


Jerry do you believe a Christian who renounces Christ while being persecuted, because he desires to save his life and live a little longer, is still saved?


But he who endures to the end shall be saved.
Matthew 24:13



JLB

 

[jerry63935]

its not your job to tell me what i do and don't understand this is your problem i am wrong because i dont line up with you

5 A sower went out to sow his seed: and as he sowed, some fell by the way side; and it was trodden down, and the fowls of the air devoured it.

6 And some fell upon a rock; and as soon as it was sprung up, it withered away, because it lacked moisture.

7 And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprang up with it, and choked it.

8 And other fell on good ground, and sprang up, and bare fruit an hundredfold. And when he had said these things, he cried, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.


11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.

12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest (never had it } they should believe and be saved.

13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away. there was no real rooted and grounded --no root no fruit ..not fruit never saved

14 And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.

15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.
maybe its you who fails to understand

in a discussion two agreements is not always going not happen especially in net forum ..but never the lass it is what it is

 

[GodsGrace]

.......this would be “ me”......Blood Bought 1953.....No need to be shy about using my name. I can back with Scripture, anything I post here.....God Bless....

No BB....it wasn't YOU.
It was a member that is no longer here.
And besides that member, I've heard others say that
no matter what we do after salvation, the blood of Jesus will
always cover us, no matte what.

This is a rather extreme view and not a proper representation of the biblical message of salvation.
God did His part.
We must also do ours.

Matthew 5:16
In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.

 

[GodsGrace]

Google and read “Harry Ironside Gospel”.... and you will get the answers to these questions

Jesus did EVERYTHING that was necessary for Salvation .....All Paul did was explain it.....Paul was God’s “ Chosen Vessel” to reveal and explain the mysteries that God had kept secret since the beginning of time....

The “ commands of Jesus” according to 1 John3:23, this side of the Cross, are all boiled down to two—- Believe and Love...

If you love,,,,aren't you obeying?
So why post writings that make it seem to new Christians that nothing is required of them?

A lot is required of us:

Luke 14:27-30
27“Whoever does not carry his own cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple.
28“For which one of you, when he wants to build a tower, does not first sit down and calculate the cost to see if he has enough to complete it?
29“Otherwise, when he has laid a foundation and is not able to finish, all who observe it begin to ridicule him,
30saying, ‘This man began to build and was not able to finish.’

But, praise God, He gives us the strength to carry out His wishes.
His commandmenys are not burdensome due to the help of the Holy Spirit.
1 John 5:2-3
2By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments.
3For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.

 

[jerry63935]

Jerry do you believe a Christian who renounces Christ while being persecuted, because he desires to save his life and live a little longer, is still saved?

i am not the Judge of salvation neither are you or anyone else --so the correct answer is i dont know neither do you. a person can say something out of fear and not mean it..do you know anyone who has renounced do you . on this your grasping at straws.once again the funeral i did i had no idea if he was saved.my guess possibly not . so i said the family he is in the hands of A LOVING GOD . WE DIE WE GO TO JUDGMENT were not the judge or is there a scripture that gives us the authority

 

[GodsGrace]

Please put on your Thinking Cap......in the end everybody will do what they want to do.....the Religionist will suppress his true Wants and look good on the outside — he changed “ the outside of the Cup” —Religionists Try To “ Clean up the House” and then invite God in......Christians invite God in and let HIM do the cleaning
I Went out last night and got as drunk as I “Wanted to”......Turns out I did not “ want” to. Before I was Saved,getting drunk was all I ever though about... God changed me. I do what I want and God changes my “ Wants”....... All I really “ WANT” to do now is to live a life that is pleasing to Him....Strange how one reacts when he knows he can do whatever he wants to do and not be lost , and how when he learns that he does not “ have” to be obedient to be Saved, he becomes more Obedient....you have to LIVE it to UNDERSTAND it.Some things , like Eternal Security , must be “Spiritually Discerned” and Religionist just don’t have that Spirit .....they will never understand it.....They spend their lives enjoying the only “Role” that know how to play.....Scripture calls them “ Accusers Of The Brethern”.....
All of this will sound like blasphemy unless you obey God And REST in the Gospel Of Grace ( 1 Cor 15:1-4 and learn to Trust God to live His Live “ through “ you. “ The man that finds Life, will find it by Trusting God”.....

The above all sounds very good, and even a bit calvinistic, but, actually, God does change our wants.

However, I dislike the wording about Religionists.
IOW,,,if someone OBEYS God,,,they are called a religionist?

And if they feel they can do whatever they want to but do not, then
they are called Christians.

This is an interesting concept.
Those that obey God's commandments are, somehow, not real Christians.

Could you PLEASE back that up with some scripture?
Thanks.


Here's some scripture from John the Apostle that loved Jesus:
John 14:21 JESUS SAID:
21“He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him.”


John 14:23-24
23Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him.
24“He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, but the Father’s who sent Me.


The above does not sound like a choice.
It sounds like Jesus is saying that IF we love Him, we will keep His word...His commandments.

Simple question:
Do we obey God or not?

 

[GodsGrace]

I agree.....Newbies need to know the TRUTH of the GOOD NEWS of the Gospel .....they ain’t gonna get it from most Churches......If they hear “ another “ Gospel that adds to it with Obedience, Repentance, Water Baptism, Tithing ,Church Attendance —ANYTHING that involves Human Merit to “GET” Saved and “ STAY” Saved —- it is a False and Perverted Gospel .
The Gospel is not about what “WE” do for God. The Gospel is about what God did for Man.Even though we were His Enemies.....dead in trespasses and sins.....
Those that think the Gospel is not enough —-Those That think THEY have to ADD something to it, essentially saying “ The Gospel May Be Essential ....it just ain’t Sufficient “ are those that are” fallen from Grace”, Perhaps damned, Perhaps not. It depends on who you listen to. Anybody that “ Teaches” a Perverted Gospel ? There is no debate as to what his outcome will be. He Is “ Accursed”, damned by God forever.....Many so- called Teachers at this Site would be wise to take a Serious Look at how they present the Gospel .....it is a Gospel Of “Grace Plus Nothing” and if you do not Rest in it , which would entail you realizing you can’t lose your Salvation because of the Finished Work Of The Cross which the Gospel Represents, you are in serious jeopardy of being one of the “ Accursed” — one of the damned .....

Again BB,,,
Please post some scripture to support what you believe.
Without scripture it is just YOUR opinion.

Jesus NEVER said "JUST BELIEVE ME AND DO NOTHING."
Please show where in the N.T. Jesus said this.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away. there was no real rooted and grounded --no root no fruit ..not fruit never saved

Joy is a fruit of the Spirit.
Compare how the saved Thessalonians received the word with joy with how the 2nd type of soil also received the word with joy:

"...you welcomed the message in the midst of severe suffering with the joy given by the Holy Spirit." - 1 Thessalonians 1:6

"Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away." - Luke 8:13

The problem was not that the word wasn't planted and growing in the 2nd type of soil. The problem was that the word did not go down deep in that soil and could be more easily pulled up, not that it didn't really get received in a genuine salvation.

This is a good example of using one's preconceived doctrine to interpret scripture instead of letting the plain words of the passage speak for themselves. There is no compelling reason to suddenly change the application of 'believe' from that of 'salvation' in vs. 12 to that of 'not really saved' in vs. 13 except to serve a predetermined doctrine. You should be letting Luke 8:13 form your doctrine, not let your doctrine form the scriptures.