Temporal Salvation?

[Blood Bought 1953]

If you use 1 John 4:15 all by itself as proof that a person is abiding in Christ then there is no such thing as fake brethren.

A confession of Christ can not stand alone as a proof of salvation. For John also said, "This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child" (1 John 3:10). So we know that the person who confesses Christ but does not do as he says is not of God. You can not isolate 1 John 4:15 away from the rest of what John said about proof of salvation. That's called not rightly dividing the word of God.

The most important element of “ doing what is Right” is Believing the Gospel to the point that we RESt In it.....If we REST in Paul’s Gospel,Of Grace Plus Nothing , we will come to the Conclusion That Salvation is something that can NEVER be Lost.....One can do EVERYTHING ELSE “ Right” , But If they blow it on RESTING in God’s Grace, they will find everything else was “ small potatoes”.......If you miss this Biggie, God will say you are a “ disobedient UNBELIEVER” . I can think of NO OTHER Command , no other Law or no other warning about “ doing what is right” That has the Threat of being declared an “ UNBELIEVER” if you do not Follow it !
To “ Do Right” in the Post-Resurrection Age Of Grace means to Believe and to Love.....If you Truly Believe the Gospel, you Will Rest in it and God will see you as Obedient Believer—- NOT a disobedient UNbeliever.......Putting one’s COMPLETE FAITH in the Gospel Plus Nothing is the key to everything else that God wants to see happen...
RESTING — knowing you are Saved Forever by Christ’s Blood and YOUR Faith in thy Blood, is what Spurs Love.....Love is what Spurs True Obedience and “ doing what is Right”..... the Obedience that obeys because it “ wants” to. Not because it “ has” to. Like so Many things that are Spirit- Driven, they just seem to come naturally. Stop “ Trying” to live right—- start TRUSTING to live Right.......God will not Save anyone Trying to be Saved ...He Save ALL that TRUST to be Saved......God Bless....
.

 

[JLB]

The other soils believed "something" about the "word", but it wouldn't take root. You see it in the majority of people! There is a belief that saves and they did not get there!

Hi Love,

Hope you are well.


Jesus teaches us the condition for a person to be saved.



Jesus said believe (the kind of believing He means) equals being saved.

Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12

• lest they should believe and be saved.

Why in the next verse would Jesus be referring to some other kind of believing?

The answer is: He wouldn’t


In the next verse He describes a different set of circumstances which is persecution. Believers are being persecuted. The reason they are being persecuted is because they are indeed believers, Christians, followers of Christ.

But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13

We don’t need to try and speculate about whether or not these folks who are being persecuted for being Christians, are believers or not, because they are in fact being persecuted for being believers.

• who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

How can a person possibly fall away from Christ, that never believed in the first place?


When you understand that Jesus is talking about believers being persecuted and the temptation they succumb to is the temptation to stop the persecution by turning away from Christ, then you understand that these people that Jesus is describing are indeed believers.




JLB





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[jerry63935]

When you understand that Jesus is talking about believers being persecuted and the temptation they succumb to is the temptation to stop the persecution by turning away from Christ, then you understand that these people that Jesus is describing are indeed believers.

not necessarily you cant have any kind of growth but only in the good soil

 

[JLB]

The most important element of “ doing what is Right” is Believing the Gospel to the point that we RESt In it.....If we REST in Paul’s Gospel,Of Grace Plus Nothing , we will come to the Conclusion That Salvation is something that can NEVER be Lost.....One can do EVERYTHING ELSE “ Right” , But If they blow it on RESTING in God’s Grace, they will find everything else was “ small potatoes”.......If you miss this Biggie, God will say you are a “ disobedient UNBELIEVER” . I can think of NO OTHER Command , no other Law or no other warning about “ doing what is right” That has the Threat of being declared an “ UNBELIEVER” if you do not Follow it !
To “ Do Right” in the Post-Resurrection Age Of Grace means to Believe and to Love.....If you Truly Believe the Gospel, you Will Rest in it and God will see you as Obedient Believer—- NOT a disobedient UNbeliever.......Putting one’s COMPLETE FAITH in the Gospel Plus Nothing is the key to everything else that God wants to see happen...
RESTING — knowing you are Saved Forever by Christ’s Blood and YOUR Faith in thy Blood, is what Spurs Love.....Love is what Spurs True Obedience and “ doing what is Right”..... the Obedience that obeys because it “ wants” to. Not because it “ has” to. Like so Many things that are Spirit- Driven, they just seem to come naturally. Stop “ Trying” to live right—- start TRUSTING to live Right.......God will not Save anyone Trying to be Saved ...He Save ALL that TRUST to be Saved......God Bless....
.

Sounds like a bunch cliche’s from some self help psychologists handout. Certainly nothing you said is found in scripture.

It’s a fruitless do nothing Gospel of the typical entitled American that has feasted on the “feel good” “seeker friendly” watered down messages of those that have been gathered to tickle their ears with what they want to hear.


Here is who will receive salvation at the end of the proverbial day.

And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him. Hebrews 5:9


Whether anyone “wants to” or not, You are to obey Him as Lord. Those who live in disobedience, will hear these awful words on that great day when we stand before our King to give account for what we did with the life He gave us.

“Then He will also say to those on the left hand, Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
for I was hungry and you gave Me no food;
I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink;
I was a stranger and you did not take Me in,
naked and you did not clothe Me,
sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’
“Then they also will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” Matthew 25:41-46


For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are well known to God, and I also trust are well known in your consciences.
2 Corinthians 5:10-11


JLB

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

Do you believe a Christian can lie?

Yes.....I also believe as the Bible clearly shows, a Christian can engage in Incest and even Blaspheme ( to make clear here—- NOT blaspheme The Holy Spirit ) ...
Luther said that we could “ rape and murder a thousand times a day” and the Grace Of God would cover it ...I agree with that because I understand Hyperbole—- exaggerating to make a point......what do you think....
On a side note ......When God Commands us to “ REST in the Gospel”...... what do you think He means by that? Why would God lump us with the Hell-Bound UNbelievers If we fail to do what He says here......thanking you in advance , your Pal, BB.......

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

So it’s ok to murder, steal, lie, sexual immorality...?

Your “Harry Ironside Gospel” is another man made Gospel.

It is never “ ok” to do those things.....what a silly question! One can do ALL of those , like David did and STILL be Saved .....they do not call it “ Amazing Grace “ for no reason.....Does it not really burn your buns to have to read that “ where sin abounds , Grace abounds more!” I am like Paul in the sense that I make no attempts to “ hold back the Grace Of God”..... I know that I need every ounce of it that I can get.....how about you?
Harry Ironside has no Gospel.....The Bible tells us that God will bless us with wise teachers .... I believe Ironside is one of them.....He teaches about the Gospel.... I hope Newbies that are not Spiritually Blind , Newbies that have not been ruined yet by Stiff-Necked Legalists and religionists that can only “ Ape” True Christianity because they have not undergone a True Heart Change , Will Find the Teachings Of Ironside a great blessing.Anybody that thinks Ironside is Wrong in His Wise analyses of what the Gospel is—- and is NOT! —- has got Problems....

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

Sounds like a bunch cliche’s from some self help psychologists handout. Certainly nothing you said is found in scripture

Wanna bet? I hope you and anybody else that questions whether or not my Post was Bible Based will take the time to read Hebrews , Chapters 3 and 4...... I accept your apology. You might be a Newbie that hasn’t learned yet how to Properly Divide the Word Of God......hang in there! God willing , you’ll get it eventually .....you may Yet become a Good Student and “ not have to stand ashamed”....you are in my prayers.....

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

“If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble,

I was very aware of this......that’s why I always stress to “ little ones” or anybody else that has a desire to be Saved, that all we have to do is Believe in the Shed Blood Of Jesus Plus Nothing for Salvation.....Even a child can understand the thinking behind the Song “ Nothing But The Blood”....I bet they can also see the hypocrisy of those that sing it week after week mindlessly and never really Believe it ......most Churches should have that great song ripped out of their Hymnals......God is not big on hypocrites in His Church...Children have a great knack for detecting phoniness ....

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

Don't mislead new Christians into thinking they don't have to fear going back to unbelief and it's consequences.

Fear is the opposite of Trust..... Trust in the Gospel found in 1 Cor 15:1-4 to the point that you REST in it and you will never have to fear anything......HERE is the thing you should Fear. It comes straight from God—- Fear That a Promise Of God Should not be acted on.....Hebrews 3 and 4 makes it abundantly clear that you will Charged with UNBELIEF , just like the Jews that died in the desert because they lacked the Trust to take God at His Word and enter the Land He had prepared for them to Rest in.....they were being tested by God to see if they had Faith and they Flunked their Test.....Don’t Flunk YOUR Test by not Resting in the Gospel Of Grace .......your “ unbelief” in regard to the Gospel is the Unbelief That that you should fear .

 

[JLB]

Wanna bet? I hope you and anybody else that questions whether or not my Post was Bible Based will take the time to read Hebrews , Chapters 3 and 4...... I accept your apology. You might be a Newbie that hasn’t learned yet how to Properly Divide the Word Of God......hang in there! God willing , you’ll get it eventually .....you may Yet become a Good Student and “ not have to stand ashamed”....you are in my prayers.....

One only needs to read the scripture to understand we must continue in the faith, not turning away from Christ, exactly as the scripture in Luke 8:13 says, in order to know and understand the truth.

Interestingly enough this passage in Hebrews 3 is teaching the same principle as Jesus taught in Luke 8:13.

Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, Hebrews 3:12-14


Thanks for making my point.


JLB

 

[JLB]

your “ unbelief” in regard to the Gospel is the Unbelief That that you should fear .

Unbelief is Disobedience.


Its disobedience thats brings about the removal of one from Christ.

If you have been following the discussion, you would know we are discussing the parable of the sower, in which Jesus teaches us it is the heart that understands that produces fruit.

Unfruitful branches are removed from Christ by the Father.


“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser.
Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. John 15:2

We know what happens to those who do not remain in Christ.


If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6


Here‘s how we are instructed to remain in Christ.


Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24

• Unbelief is Disobedience.

Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, Hebrews 4:8 NKJV


Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: Hebrews 4:8 KJV


Do you understand that this passage is referring to the rest you are claiming?


They could not enter His rest because of disobedience.


I would encourage you to study and understand the meaning of biblical words and terms so that you yourself will understand the scriptures you read.



JLB

 

[jerry63935]

It is never “ ok” to do those things...

careful he will ignore you to

 

[JLB]

Trust in the Gospel found in 1 Cor 15:1-4

1 Corinthians 15:1-2 teaches the same principle that Jesus is teaching in Luke 8:12-13.

Believe, in the present tense, equals salvation.


Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
1 Corinthians 15:1-2


If we do not continue to believe, but fall away in unbelief, our initial believing by which we were saved was done in vain.


Believe = Saved

Believe for a while = Saved for a while

Temporary Believing = Temporary Salvation


Surely you understand this.






JLB

 

[jerry63935]

Believe for a while = Saved for a while

Temporary Believing = Temporary Salvation


Surely you understand this.

surely you understand there is NO SUCH thing as temporary salvation .its NOT in the scriptures man kind can and will believe how they want . proverbs 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
wayside rocky ground thorns all represent type hearers . no seed will ever grow... the old saying in one ear and out the other .

not sure why you refuse to reply to my post . other than fact i will not agree with you once again why would JESUS say eternal life . the word temporary saved salvation is not scripture . only two types people saved or lost no in between

Believe for a while = Saved for a while

where in scripture does it say saved for a while .them exact words btw dont remove me because i oppose the words saved for a while. we can go astray we can backslide that is Bible .but like the prodigal son we will come to our senses . peter denied Christ went fishing came back to his senses King David guilty of murder adultery came back to his senses. judas iscariot committed suicide .never saved most likely in his own mind a way that seems right .not only did he die physically he died spiritually

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I was very aware of this......that’s why I always stress to “ little ones” or anybody else that has a desire to be Saved, that all we have to do is Believe in the Shed Blood Of Jesus Plus Nothing for Salvation.....Even a child can understand the thinking behind the Song “ Nothing But The Blood”....I bet they can also see the hypocrisy of those that sing it week after week mindlessly and never really Believe it ......most Churches should have that great song ripped out of their Hymnals......God is not big on hypocrites in His Church...Children have a great knack for detecting phoniness ....

For all the spiritual insights you are sure you have (over and above us) how did you miss that the little ones who believe in Jesus are being caused to stumble so as to go to hell?

"42“If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them if a large millstone were hung around their neck and they were thrown into the sea. 43If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out. [44] b 45And if your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell. [46] c 47And if your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, 48where

“ ‘the worms that eat them do not die,
and the fire is not quenched.’" - Mark 9:42-48

It's better for those in the church who believe in Christ to enter the kingdom minus those who cause them to stumble and go to hell than for the believing church to keep them around.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

where in scripture does it say saved for a while .them exact words btw dont remove me because i oppose the words saved for a while. we can go astray we can backslide that is Bible .but like the prodigal son we will come to our senses . peter denied Christ went fishing came back to his senses King David guilty of murder adultery came back to his senses. judas iscariot committed suicide .never saved most likely in his own mind a way that seems right .not only did he die physically he died spiritually

Now it sounds like you're defending the 2nd type of soil as being a true believer.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Fear is the opposite of Trust..... Trust in the Gospel found in 1 Cor 15:1-4 to the point that you REST in it and you will never have to fear anything......HERE is the thing you should Fear. It comes straight from God—- Fear That a Promise Of God Should not be acted on.....Hebrews 3 and 4 makes it abundantly clear that you will Charged with UNBELIEF , just like the Jews that died in the desert because they lacked the Trust to take God at His Word and enter the Land He had prepared for them to Rest in.....they were being tested by God to see if they had Faith and they Flunked their Test.....Don’t Flunk YOUR Test by not Resting in the Gospel Of Grace .......your “ unbelief” in regard to the Gospel is the Unbelief That that you should fear .

You don't seem to grasp that when you live in sin you're not resting in Christ. But you are sure the person who is living in sin is resting in Christ simply because he believes in him. You don't seem to realize if he believed in him he would not be living in sin.

"3We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands. 4Whoever says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person. 5But if anyone obeys his word, love for God a is truly made complete in them. This is how we know we are in him: 6Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did." - 1 John 2:3-6

 

[JLB]

where in scripture does it say saved for a while .them exact words btw dont remove me because i oppose the words saved for a while. we can go astray we can backslide that is Bible .but like the prodigal son we will come to our senses . peter denied Christ went fishing came back to his senses King David guilty of murder adultery came back to his senses. judas iscariot committed suicide .never saved most likely in his own mind a way that seems right .not only did he die physically he died spiritually

Jerry, no offense brother, but this response shows me you don’t understand the discussion topic.

Its not about backsliding because of sinful life choices.


I have stated what the topic is. Persecution.

Christians being persecuted BECAUSE they are Christians.


This is one of the reasons I stopped responding to you.


If you would like to actually address the topic Jesus is discussing and I am expounding upon, then I will try again with you.


I only ask that you actually address the point I’m making and the scripture I am using.


With that being said, please address this post —


Jesus teaches us the condition for a person to be saved.



Jesus said believe (the kind of believing He means) equals being saved.

Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12

• lest they should believe and be saved.

Why in the next verse would Jesus be referring to some other kind of believing?

The answer is: He wouldn’t


In the next verse He describes a different set of circumstances which is persecution. Believers are being persecuted. The reason they are being persecuted is because they are indeed believers, Christians, followers of Christ.

But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13

We don’t need to try and speculate about whether or not these folks who are being persecuted for being Christians, are believers or not, because they are in fact being persecuted for being believers.

• who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

How can a person possibly fall away from Christ, that never believed in the first place?


When you understand that Jesus is talking about believers being persecuted and the temptation they succumb to is the temptation to stop the persecution by turning away from Christ, then you understand that these people that Jesus is describing are indeed believers.




JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Luther said that we could “ rape and murder a thousand times a day” and the Grace Of God would cover it ...I agree with that because I understand Hyperbole—- exaggerating to make a point......what do you think....
On a side note ......When God Commands us to “ REST in the Gospel”...... what do you think He means by that?

It means you don't rape and murder a thousand times a day.

 

[jerry63935]

Jerry, no offense brother, but this response shows me you don’t understand the discussion topic.

i fully understand the topic you just reject what i say on the topic. what your saying is they are lost again and need to be saved again .no this is not my first rodeo on the topic.

who believe for a while

for a while