Temporal Salvation?

[JLB]

I will say this —


Even though this topic is highly controversial and has been forbidden to be discussed of late, I believe each of us has shown that we can still be polite, even though some of us (me) are frustrated by some who seem to ignore or not understand the points being conveyed.


Thank you to everyone for helping to keep this topic from blowing up.


God bless you all.


If I have said anything to personally offend anyone, please pm me and I will delete my comment.


Be blessed.



JLB



PS. Thanks to netchaplain for starting this thread.

I may not agree with him, but he is always a gentleman and kind.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Do you mean 'listen' to this or 'look' at this?

I guess you wouldn't know the difference, would you?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Pure filth.

Not at all.
It is an expression of music and dance.
Yes, it is excitable but who wants to listen to the dead music Jethro posted?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I will say this —


Even though this topic is highly controversial and has been forbidden to be discussed of late, I believe each of us has shown that we can still be polite, even though some of us (me) are frustrated by some who seem to ignore or not understand the points being conveyed.


Thank you to everyone for helping to keep this topic from blowing up.


God bless you all.


If I have said anything to personally offend anyone, please pm me and I will delete my comment.


Be blessed.



JLB



PS. Thanks to netchaplain for starting this thread.

I may not agree with him, but he is always a gentleman and kind.

Thanks for liking my posts.
I liked them too.

 

[jerry63935]

These “fell away“ or “stumbled“ in which they turned away from Christ because of persecution.

does it say they turned from christ? you talk about commentaires mans word. your doing a good job. but still no scripture with temporary salvation

by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.

never had it if you can not give me scripture that use the exact words temporary salvation .then the post is in vain due to heading .eternal life not temporary life

 

[netchaplain]

I will say this —


Even though this topic is highly controversial and has been forbidden to be discussed of late, I believe each of us has shown that we can still be polite, even though some of us (me) are frustrated by some who seem to ignore or not understand the points being conveyed.


Thank you to everyone for helping to keep this topic from blowing up.


God bless you all.


If I have said anything to personally offend anyone, please pm me and I will delete my comment.


Be blessed.



JLB



PS. Thanks to netchaplain for starting this thread.

I may not agree with him, but he is always a gentleman and kind.

Appreciate the encouraging comments. There's no spiritual growth doctrine that doesn't rest on the issue of this subject, and is why it's always so interesting, when discussed using the Word and respect to one another.

 

[JLB]

does it say they turned from christ?

Yes. Turned away from Christ because they were being persecuted.

They turned away from Christ to stop the suffering and or to save their life, as most Christians were put to death by unbelieving Jews.

Their practice was to kill the ring leader so that they others who fall in line and turn back to Judaism.

This was know as “strike the sheppard and the sheep will scatter”.


JLB

 

[jerry63935]

Yes. Turned away from Christ because they were being persecuted.

still looking for scripture

 

[JLB]

still looking for scripture

It’s the same scriptures I have posted.


Here it is again from post 350.

Jerry these are the words of scripture, the words of Jesus Christ.

• This is the teaching, the doctrine of Jesus Christ.

Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:12-13


When anyone hears the word of the kingdom, and does not understand it, then the wicked one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is he who received seed by the wayside. But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles. Matthew 13:19-21

• but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles.

• who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

Do you understand that this second group is being persecuted because they are believers; followers of Jesus Christ ?

Do you understand what stumbles means, here in this context?

Do you understand what fall away means here in this context?




JLB

 

[JLB]

still looking for scripture

Please. Study what fall away means.

Depart from

Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, Hebrews 3:12-14


Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 1 Timothy 4:1


yet he has no [substantial] root in himself, but is only temporary, and when pressure or persecution comes because of the word, immediately he stumbles and falls away [abandoning the One who is the source of salvation]. Matthew 13:21 AMP


13 Those on the rocky soil are the people who, when they hear, receive and welcome the word with joy; but these have no firmly grounded root. They believe for a while, and in time of trial and temptation they fall away [from Me and abandon their faith].
Luke 8:13 AMP







JLB

 

[jerry63935]

Please. Study what fall away means.

i am fully aware what it means you keep jumping the subject temporary salvation

They believe for a while, and in time of trial and temptation they fall away [from Me and abandon their faith].

for a while they never had it Therefore let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father. And this is the promise that He has promised us – eternal life.” 1 John 2:24-25. …
\His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.” 2 Peter 1:3-4.

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

Please share the scripture that says we are to rest in the Gospel of grace, so we can discuss it.

Hebrews .....Chapters 3 and 4

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

Whether anyone “wants to” or not, You are to obey Him as Lord. Those who live in disobedience, will hear these awful words on that great day when we stand before our King to give account for what we did with the life He gave us.

God says if you do not REST in His Gospel Of Grace .....you are not only being “ disobedient”..... You are also considered an “UNBELIEVER”......If you are a Confused , Poorly Taught Person and you mistakenly think Obedience, instead of Faith , is the Ticket To Heaven , at least turn your attention to the Grand- Daddy Of all verses pertaining to “ Obedience”.....Get That “Biggie” out of the way So you will not have to deal with God calling you an “ Unbeliever” and then you can find other ways to “Pervert the Gospel” by adding to it and teach others to live Crippled Lives as they are “ Fallen From Grace” and do not even know what that term means.Read Galatians ( Just the first chapter or two) to discover the Fate Of Those That Teach a False Gospel.....it ain’t pretty....
Let me make myself Clear.....Obedience is Great......it will make you “Moral”. Unfortunately, Hell will be chock-full Of Moral people .God is looking for the “ ungodly”...... Dead in their Trespasses and Sins .....People who are Sinners and KNOW it......People who have Contrite Hearts and are ready to quit playing games with God......to see what all of this looks like, check out the Sinful Publican Who Simply cried out to God..... “ Lord, have Mercy on me , a Sinner”.....Jesus said that Man went home “ Justified”——- thats just another word for “Saved”.
Again,Obedience is great ...it’s what Wise people do.... your life will go much better by being obedient to the Statutes Of God.....Even the Unsaved Man can be blessed by obeying the Commandment — “ Thou shalt not commit Murder” . It will keep him out of Jail....
Once more——- Obedience is great. It will be a Natural Result Of your Existence once you Rest In the Gospel Of 1 Cor 15:1-4...... Don't put the Cart before the Horse....Obedience does not save you .Obedience will not Keep you Saved . Two other things Save—— Christ’s Blood and your Faith in that Blood .Rest in those two Truths and Obedience will follow.Rest spurs Love .....Love spurs Obedience.Rule Keeping to get Saved or to Stay Saved leads to Dead Works. Don’t waste your time with that....God aint interested.....

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

It’s a fruitless do nothing Gospel

Amen! You sure got that right! I disagree on the “ fruitless” part, of course, but Paul’s Gospel WAS a “ Do Nothing” Gospel If there ever “ was” one! The true Gospel Of God's Grace is NOT what Man does for God ( all religions of the world dwell on That Hogwash )...... quite the opposite , and that is the reason why Christianity is not a “Religion” ( ugh!)...... The Gospel Of 1cor15:1-4 is NOT about what man does for God—- it is ALL about what God has done for man. Christianity 101, I thought......I am surprised so many that call themselves “ Christians” are Clueless about the Way Of Salvation in this Wonderful Age Of Grace.Does Nobody Read Romans or Galatians these days? Perhaps “ seeing but not seeing” is the problem.... oh well, may God bless us all in the understanding of these important things.....

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

Hi Love,

Hope you are well.


Jesus teaches us the condition for a person to be saved.



Jesus said believe (the kind of believing He means) equals being saved.

Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12

• lest they should believe and be saved.

Why in the next verse would Jesus be referring to some other kind of believing?

The answer is: He wouldn’t


In the next verse He describes a different set of circumstances which is persecution. Believers are being persecuted. The reason they are being persecuted is because they are indeed believers, Christians, followers of Christ.

But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13

We don’t need to try and speculate about whether or not these folks who are being persecuted for being Christians, are believers or not, because they are in fact being persecuted for being believers.

• who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

How can a person possibly fall away from Christ, that never believed in the first place?


When you understand that Jesus is talking about believers being persecuted and the temptation they succumb to is the temptation to stop the persecution by turning away from Christ, then you understand that these people that Jesus is describing are indeed believers.




JLB





.

The same Jesus That taught about the different types of Soil before the Cross said “ after” His Ascension ( and using His Chosen Vessel , Paul to say it) that the way to Be Saved was to hear the Gospel and Believe the Gospel . Of course , seeing as to how it is true that “Nobody comes to God lest the Spirit Draw Him” , God Must open the Heart Of The listener like he did for Lydia, the seller Of Purple and Even Peter when he confessed Jesus as Lord for the First Time.....

If you are one of the few who hear the Gospel and Believe it to the Point they no longer worry about their Salvation because they actually BELIEVE that Jesus actually “died for their Sins” you don’t have to worry about what Type Of Soil you are .You are “ Good Soil”....Congratulations to you! The Holy Spirit has blessed you with a visit and opened your eyes and your Heart to the Gospel Of Pure Grace Plus Nothing ! You are as “ good to go” as Lydia and Peter ...it was all of Grace for them and it’s All Of Grace for you and I ......If all of this is “Mumbo-Jumbo” to you , why not consider joining the gang? If you have been blessed to see your NEED for Mercy, Simply and Sincerely ask God for it......when it comes to “ mercy”, find out what I did! He has it in abundance .....I found out I REALLY needed it! How about you ? If you answer was “yes”—— go to the head of the class! If your answer was “ No”...... you are as Lost as an Eskimo in the Sahara.....you May want to consider Turning to God to get Saved.....Faith is what Saves......Faith is Believing a Promise Of God......Here’s One that worked for me and I guarantee it will work for you.... “ Turn to me and I will turn to you”...... God bless....

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

careful he will ignore you to

......and the reason I would care about that is?

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

It's better for those in the church who believe in Christ to enter the kingdom minus those who cause them to stumble and go to hell than for the believi


More Truth here! ( alas, probably not in the way you would like to hear ).....Paul , talking about Legalists who add to his Gospel Of Grace with the “ Leaven” Of Legalism ( That would be all those that Believe the Blood is “Essential” for Salvation—- it just is not “Adequate” For Salvation ....we need to throw in a Little Law , a little of our Performance ,for a little Insurance...) Paul said that the reason these False Converts even exist is to go around and find ways to “ accuse the Brethern, those being the Spiritual descendants of Abraham and Isaac that are” Free” and live by Faith. By contrast , you have the Spiritual descendants of Ishmael , slaves to the Law that put their Faith in THEIR Performance and Obedience to the Law instead of putting their Trust in HIS Performance ......Apparently there isn’t much hope for the Religionist who can do nothing but “ Ape” the Behavior Of Those Who are Truly Born Again and have been Transformed by the Holy Spirit from the “ inside of the cup.” True Christians got to be “ True Christians” not by trying to clean up the House and then inviting Jesus in.......just the opposite ! They invited Jesus in and let HIM do the cleaning......it’s the difference between Heaven and Hell.....
Paul never said to argue with these Legalistic types......no begging, no cajoling , no debating ....no mention of even Praying for them! What was Paul’s unmistakable Verdict in regard to Leaven - Spreading Legalists? Simple.....through them out ! Do I hear a big “ AMEN?”
Legalists destroyed many of the Churches That Paul founded, ( all of those in Asia-Minor have left me )...... Legalist, Religionists and Tares can also destroy Sites like this..... I pray that never happens here......God Bless....

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

It means you don't rape and murder a thousand times a day.

My fear has been realized .....let’s see if I can explain “ Hyperbole” to you. It is a method of speaking whereby something can be exaggerated to make a point..... did you really think that Luther was advocating rape and murder on the scale of 1000 times a day? The weather is crazy sometimes here in Southern Ohio — the hot summer days bring about severe evening storms many times this time of the year . ....if I ever say that it was “ raining cats and dogs”, please do not take me literally.....lol.....I am just engaging in a little “ hyperbole” to make a point. Just like Luther.

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

One only needs to read the scripture to understand we must continue in the faith, not turning away from Christ, exactly as the scripture in Luke 8:13 says, in order to know and understand the truth.

Interestingly enough this passage in Hebrews 3 is teaching the same principle as Jesus taught in Luke 8:13.

Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, Hebrews 3:12-14


Thanks for making my point.


JLB

I made your point? You are not nearly as clever as you seem to think you are...you are clever by half.....maybe...

The Point God is making in Heb 3 and 4 is a very SPECIFIC ONE and has nothing to do with what you are referring to......God is saying to those “ with ears to hear” that if you do not Trust in God’s Promise to give you Rest if you Trust in Paul’s Gospel you are just as bad as the Hebrews that He Let waste away in the desert for 38 years because they ( just like those of today that Add to the Gospel Of Grace with their Works ) did not Trust God to keep His Word. God is saying He is giving us today the same test He gave to the Jews—— enter Canaan with Faith that I will keep My Word and drive out your enemies with hornets ( the Jews didn’t have to lift a finger...they could have had it Made! ) and I will give you rest for the entirety of your lives.
To us today , God is testing us also by saying, in effect—- “ Trust Paul’s Gospel, given to him personally by Jesus , and I will give you “ Rest” . A Rest from the “ doing” of the Jewish Religion That says “ Do do this” and “ Don’t do that” to get Saved , to the New and Better Covenant that everything necessary for your Salvation has already been “ DONE !” Knowing that, you will never have to lack in your Assurance Of Salvation again! Jesus did it ALL at the Cross .....He actually “ Died for your Sins.” When He Said, “It is Finished” He meant it ! You either Believe it or you don’t Believe it. Don’t be like the Ancient Jews and Fail your test of Faith...One fails this test just like the Jews did—- UNBELIEF! Prove you Believe the Gospel by Resting in it....that means knowing without a doubt you are Forever sealed and Saved and you know you can Never be Lost. ......it’s that first half of the Gospel thingy.....Jesus actually DID Shed His Blood for your sins.All Of them.....Newbies need to be told to RUN , not Walk from those who say otherwise....BELIEVE the Gospel ! God Bless....

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

I would encourage you to study and understand the meaning of biblical words and terms so that you yourself will understand the scriptures you read.

Gee...thanks Teach.....
I know EXACTLY what Biblical Words That I use in my Posts mean......no brag,,,,just fact .....I don’t know everything — not even close—- but I know something that you are clueless about ...
Disobedience will get one Chastised . Serious, repeated Disobedience could result in God striking you dead and calling you home, years prematurely....If you are a Born Again, you are still Saved.....Saved By your Faith, NOT by your Behavior....
UNBELIEF ? That is an entirely different Animal.....it is the ONLY thing that damns Anybody that goes to Hell.....Even Hitler did not go to hell because of sins .....Jesus paid the price for ALL sins 2000 years ago....Hitler, just like Anybody else that winds up in Hell did not “ cash in” on what Jesus had done for him on the Cross with Faith....
To sum up ......
Unbelief is a severe type of Disobedience ...it will damn
Disobedience is NOT Unbelief ....it will result in many bad things happening to you—- God chastises His Children who disobey.....just like any good Father would do! It’s for the Child’s own Good. UNBELIEVERS, on the other hand, are not Children Of God....he considers them to be “ Bastards” they may or may not get Divine Discipline.....this is the only life they will ever know.....God sometimes just lets them go...
Please....examine your own ignorance about the meanings of Bible Words before you condescend to others ...you embarrass yourself here and you don’t even know it....