Temporal Salvation?

[LovethroughDove]

Me too.
Why does that mean I am incapable of refusing to trust in it?

I don't know

 

[Jethro Bodine]

And I'm telling you.......you can't unsee something that has been shown to you

Simply seeing something is not the same as placing your trust in what you see.
The demons can see far better what we Christians see, but they have not placed their trust in what they can see.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I guess you are preaching to those on the fence. I will let you do your thing

I'm preaching to those who are willing to question why the church embraces doctrines that make the word of God not really mean what it says. I understand that most Christians are not at that willing place. That's not necessarily a condemnation of them because I know that it is a powerful spirit of deceit at work in this end-times church that is making it hard for them to see the actual Biblical truth about what they so confidently, but erroneously, affirm.

 

[LovethroughDove]

Simply seeing something is not the same as placing your trust in what you see.
The demons can see far better what we Christians see, but they have not placed their trust in what they can see.

I don't even see faith that way.

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen

The evidence has been given to me, I don't have to trust.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I understand your concern for people falling away, but people fall away and you can't change that. All the people with hearts that won't receive the TRUTH, they won't receive it........They won't.

That is true.....in the end those that can be saved will be saved, those who can't be saved won't. I'm being a vessel through which those who have the potential to bring the word of God to fruition within them can do that. And I'm doing it for reasons I will not share. But I know if I don't do it, God will use someone else to do it. The kingdom of God doesn't rest on my shoulders.

 

[LovethroughDove]

Jethro, you keep bringing up demons. Where in scripture does it say demons don't trust God?

 

[LovethroughDove]

That is true.....in the end those that can be saved will be saved, those who can't be saved won't. I'm being a vessel through which those who have the potential to bring the word of God to fruition within them can do that. And I'm doing it for reasons I will not share. But I know if I don't do it, God will use someone else to do it. The kingdom of God doesn't rest on my shoulders.

You are right. It sounds like God gave you a mission and he did the same for me.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I don't even see faith that way.

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen

The evidence has been given to me, I don't have to trust.

Correct, faith is the evidence.
It is not the believing that you do in response to the proof (the faith) God has graciously given you about the gospel.

Haven't you ever used the phrase 'I have the faith to believe'?
The faith is merely the conviction upon which one then does their believing/ trusting.

Most people in the church think that simply having the conviction of the truth is what saves them.
Demons are very, very convinced that Jesus is the appointed Messiah of God. That knowledge, that truth, all by itself, never saved anyone. Putting your trust in that truth is what saves. And you know that you've done that by if you are a changed/changing person. But lot's of people in the church think they are converted because they know the truth. But they have not placed their trust in the truth they know and they remain unsaved and unchanged in the false comfort of their knowledge of God.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Jethro, you keep bringing up demons. Where in scripture does it say demons don't trust God?

Really?
Do we now have to question if demons trust God?

"19You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder." - James 2:19

The demons know far, far more than you and I about God and Jesus and the gospel. But since they do not trust in God that knowledge is meaningless and useless. Simply knowing about God and Jesus and the gospel is NOT what saves.

 

[LovethroughDove]

Correct, faith is the evidence.
It is not the believing that you do in response to the proof (the faith) God has graciously given you about the gospel.

Haven't you ever used the phrase 'I have the faith to believe'?
The faith is merely the conviction upon which one then does their believing/ trusting.

Most people in the church think that simply having the conviction of the truth is what saves them.
Demons are very, very convinced that Jesus is the appointed Messiah of God. That knowledge, that truth, all by itself, never saved anyone. Putting your trust in that truth is what saves. And you know that you've done that by if you are a changed/changing person. But lot's of people in the church think they are converted because they know the truth. But they have not placed their trust in the truth they know and they remain unsaved and unchanged in the false comfort of their knowledge of God.

What I am trying to convey, is that most people have not been given the Truth of who Jesus is.

It doesn't matter about demons. We are talking to people who have flesh and bone and this is what people don't understand about Jesus. They spiritualize him so much that they don't understand he walked this earth and the Christ has come in the flesh. The spirit of the anti-christ is alive and well.

1 John 4:2-3 If I hadn't been given personal revelation from God........I wouldn't have known the truth because the church world spiritualizes him so bad that we can't relate to him

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Me too.
Why does that mean I am incapable of refusing to trust in it?

I don't know

Good answer.
I thought for sure you were going to give me the Calvinist reason why.

 

[LovethroughDove]

Really?
Do we now have to question if demons trust God?

"19You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder." - James 2:19

The demons know far, far more than you and I about God and Jesus and the gospel. But since they do not trust in God that knowledge is meaningless and useless. Simply knowing about God and Jesus and the gospel is NOT what saves.

It sounded like you were saying the demons don't trust God and that is why "believers" are special

 

[jerry63935]

Bingo!
And Paul says it won't be any different for us either.
But instead the church arrogantly thinks that's not true.
The very arrogance Paul warns against in that chapter.

israel never believed big difference if a person wants to forsake Christ then they would have to be come a apostate . i know where i stand .that is what i have to do, i dont panic if i am lost again and need to be saved all over again. i go to sleep at night saved wake up saved..

 

[Jethro Bodine]

What I am trying to convey, is that most people have not been given the Truth of who Jesus is.

It doesn't matter about demons. We are talking to people who have flesh and bone and this is what people don't understand about Jesus. They spiritualize him so much that they don't understand he walked this earth and the Christ has come in the flesh. The spirit of the anti-christ is alive and well.

1 John 4:2-3 If I hadn't been given personal revelation from God........I wouldn't have known the truth because the church world spiritualizes him so bad that we can't relate to him

What, specifically, is the bad effect to people in the church of spiritualizing Christ so much?

 

[LovethroughDove]

What, specifically, is the bad effect to people in the church of spiritualizing Christ so much?

By that scripture I posted about the anti-christ

 

[Jethro Bodine]

It sounded like you were saying the demons don't trust God and that is why "believers" are special

The demons, even though they know Christ is the Messiah, are DIFFERENT from believers because they merely know that Jesus is the Christ, while we believers have actually placed our trust and confidence in Christ for our redemption.

 

[jerry63935]

Yes, what God gives is forever. But don't un-rightly divide this truth from the whole counsel of scripture.
You have to keep believing in order to continue in that which is forever.

what he gives us is forever but yet you add conditions even the lost alcoholic believes in God

 

[JLB]

Why did Jesus even tell that parable if the good soil people are eternally secure? To show you that you have been given the Spirit and you will produce.

Those who are in Christ then removed from Christ Certainly no longer have the eternal life they once had when they were in Him.


“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit.
John 15:1-2


Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away


Do you believe those who are in Christ, then later are removed from Christ because they do not bear fruit, still have eternal life.

 

[jerry63935]

I'm preaching to those who are willing to question why the church embraces doctrines that make the word of God not really mean what it says. I understand that most Christians are not at that willing place. That's not necessarily a condemnation of them because I know that it is a powerful spirit of deceit at work in this end-times church that is making it hard for them to see the actual Biblical truth about what they so confidently, but erroneously, affirm.

which would be??????? so how does your flock take your preaching ? all i have seen is personal belief .

 

[Jethro Bodine]

israel never believed big difference if a person wants to forsake Christ then they would have to be come a apostate

Israel is a type and shadow of the people of God. Even though they technically were not saved as we know salvation, they did serve him at one time and fell away. And Paul uses that as an illustration of what will happen to us if we fall away into unbelief.

i know where i stand .that is what i have to do, i dont panic if i am lost again and need to be saved all over again. i go to sleep at night saved wake up saved..

You have to go back to purposeful unbelief to lose your salvation.
And once God turns you over to your decision (he may try to bring you back--like the Galatians and the Corinthians) you can never come back.