Temporal Salvation?

[Jethro Bodine]

I believe “ Works” will follow Salvation .Its a Natural Thing That happens as an “ off-shoot” Of an Indwelling Holy Spirit.

Yes, I know you believe that.
The problem is you think it's okay to purposely sin while you're waiting around for God to do that.
You erroneously think that if you have to make an effort to restrain sin and do the right thing you're guilty of not resting in Christ and trying to earn your own salvation, and that God gets glory out of you sinning, causing grace to abound, than if you try to work for him. I'm well aware of what this Freegrace doctrine teaches.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Lets not forget the Thief on the Cross. He had no Works . Jesus could have said to the poor guy ( btw, wasn’t his name, Ringo ?) That “ Hey, you have Turned to me and shown that you have Faith in Me to Save you, But their is this issue of “ Works”....... you don’t have the time or the ability to prove that I saved you because I am not seeing any Works out of you......rules are rules, you know. Sorry.”

Yes, I think his name was Ringo.

I don't know how you conclude Ringo (lol) had no works. He did not sin and steadfastly endured to the end in righteousness in unspeakable suffering. He has far more boast of the grace of God at work in him than you and I and all our friends put together. I won't even dare put the works of faith God has wrought in me up to his works of righteousness on his cross.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The Main reason God created us humans was for us “ to do Good Works and Bear the Burdens Of Others .” Good Works SHOULD accompany Salvation...

No, we HAVE to, or you don't have the faith that justifies all by itself apart from works. I showed you this in the Bible.

...given time I Believe they WILL...

Yes, they will.
The problem is you're adding a doctrine to this that says you can purposely sin in the meantime and Christ has you covered, because salvation is not by works.

...The only Point I am trying to make is that they do not HAVE to .....Your Salvation was a GIFT..... Its “ Nothing But The Blood”.... NOT ..... “ Nothing But The Works”......

No, that's not the only point you're making.
You are claiming it's better to sin while waiting for God to perfect his obedience in you.
You base that claim on a misuse of the scripture that says 'where sin abounds grace abounds all the more' (Romans 5:20), thinking that God gets glory out of your sinning because by you sinning you're (supposedly) resting in Christ and not trying to earn your salvation by trying to do right. What a horrible misuse of God's grace!

The foundation of this error is you don't understand that while the sanctified person's righteous doings will never earn them salvation, their evil doings, done purposely and in contempt of God's grace, will indeed condemn them to hell (Hebrews 10:26-30).

You see, whether you restrained yourself by the power of God, or through yourself, you can't be condemned by a sin that you do not commit. That's not works. That's you not being guilty of a sin you did not commit. But certainly, whether done in the power of God or not, righteous work will never earn a person salvation. But sin will certainly condemn, both, the sinner and the saved alike, if the saved person treats the forgiveness of God with contempt by sinning willfully (claiming grace allows him to do that). No! Grace was given you to NOT sin willfully. Freegrace doctrine has it all turned around--sinning is good, because that's you not working to earn salvation, while restraining sin is you trying to earn your salvation. It's a joke.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I listen to music sometimes when I ride the Motorcycle .....guess who I listen to the Most ? Yeah, you guessed it.....the Beatles . I bet you though I was going to say “ Ozzy Osborne”, Right ?

Well........yeah, I did, lol.

Being the Lost, Heathen Man That I am......lol......
I hope that this is not true, but poor old “ No Hell Below Us” John Lennon and “ Hari Krishna” George Harrison are probably in torment at this moment .They at least stumbled upon ONE Truth while they were here on the Planet—— “ All You Need is Love”.

This is fine.
We all know this.
The problem is, you are adding the teaching that you don't have to stop sinning until God's grace works his love in you to stop sinning, or else that would be you working to earn your salvation. No. You not sinning is not you trying to earn your salvation (unless you make it that, of course). That's you not being condemned by a sin you did not commit. In time that will become you not sinning because God has perfected his love in you.

It’s a Shame they were blinded by Satan in regard to Resting in Paul’s Gospel Of Grace....Maybe Ringo and Paul are out there somewhere listening.... I would not “ bet the Farm” on this however......not even “ Junior’s Farm”....... and yes, I know that was a “ Wings” tune— not the Beatles.....but you get the point....lol.....

Yes, I get the point, lol. Great tune!

As I say, the problem with Freegrace doctrine is it says resting in the gospel means you can purposely sin if you want to while you're waiting around for God's grace to perfect obedience in you, because if you tried not to sin that would be you not resting in God's grace and you trying to earn your own salvation. No! What that would be is you not being condemned by a sin you did not commit! Later, it will be the love of God perfected in you causing you to not be condemned by a sin you did not commit.

 

[jerry63935]

Freegrace doctrine has it all turned around--sinning is good, because that's you not working to earn salvation, while restraining sin is you trying to earn your salvation. It's a joke.

14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; no one can earn salvation it was paid for at calvary it is finished the debt for sin was paid . all this qanat straining fall away great falling away .man can not correctly pinpoint who or when.. once again when paul wrote to work out your own salvation with fear and trembling ..we have to take care of us..

 

[Jethro Bodine]

14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; no one can earn salvation it was paid for at calvary it is finished the debt for sin was paid . all this qanat straining fall away great falling away .man can not correctly pinpoint who or when.. once again when paul wrote to work out your own salvation with fear and trembling ..we have to take care of us..

This is why we are exhorted to make our calling and election sure.
You know what that means, right?
You know how to do that, right?

It goes like this, "Make every effort...."

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

He says you have no obligation to act holy, or to prove anything by how you act. He says doing that is actually unbelief. He does not know scripture.

Please allow me to quote Ed McMahon —- “You are CORRECT , SIR!” ........ I will leave that “ Acting Holy” crappola to the Pros......mainly to the Phony TV Preachers that have that constant “ forlorn “ look on their faces , thinking that makes them appear sooooo sincere and Holy-Looking......haha.....what a joke! Think “ Paul Washer “ and his ilk........Even my most Heathen Unsaved Friends can see right through that Phoniness.....
God hates Hypocrisy and phoniness ( a little trivia here....hypocrites were pro actors in ancient times that literally donned masks to show their scripted emotions ) God does not give a “ Tinker’s Damn” about anybody that has mastered “ ACTING” Holy......He demands that we “BE” Holy , Just as He demands we “ BE” Perfect !
How on Earth do we BECOME Holy and Perfect as opposed to just “ acting like it ?” If you answered , “ REST in Paul’s Gospel Of Grace”...... go to the head of the Class !
( here’s some more info for you Trivia Buffs out there —“ Being Holy” Simply means to be “ set apart”......God takes All Believers and sets them apart from the World and puts them into an exclusive “ transform them into the Image Of My Son” Club...)
I am the TRUE “ Chief Of Sinners” ( Sorry Paul, you Must step aside— there’s a New Kid in Town ) Yet, God sees me through a Lens Of Grace and declares me BOTH “ Righteous and Holy”. How did I Merit all of this good stuff ? Because I know I do NOT Merit Anything other than a well- deserved Eternity in Hell ( how about you? Haha.....you ain’t fooling anybody! If not for the Grace Of God, YOU would be as Reprobate as the worst sInner in your Town......Cheer up ! You are MUCH WORSE than you Think you are...... probably a lot more like Ol’ Blood Bought than you care to admit.....Every hour of every day you have unclean thoughts that would “ SHAME HELL itself ! ) Get over yourself , Sinner —- God gives us ALL just one way out of this Stinking Mess That we find ourselves in......Jesus paid for ALL the Sins Of the World .....Even Hitler could have been Saved...He simply made the same Mistake that all the Denizens Of Hell make.He did not “ Cash In” on the Finished Work Of The Cross That Jesus accomplished FOR old Adolf...He could have been Declared just as “ Holy and Righteous” as Wretched you and I have been. Alas , He never Turned to God with Faith in Paul’s Gospel . He was devoid of Faith ....no declarations of being “ Holy and Righteous” for him......and NONE FOR YOU unless you see that you are a Wretched Sinner That MUST have a Savior and Turn to Him ( THAt is Repentance, my friend) so you can be declared “ Holy and Perfect”......without those IMPUTATIONS , given to you because of Your Faith in The Shed Blood Of Jesus— Plus NOTHING —- you May get the chance to see the Fuhrer personally.....Please don’t let that happen! Had Adolf only done what the Sinful Tax Collector Had Done, crying out from a Contrite , sincere Heart.....” Lord, have mercy on me, a Sinner....” things would be very different......have you done the equivalent of what the Tax Collector did Yet? You had better pray that you do.....God bless ......

 

[jerry63935]

It goes like this, "Make every effort...."

the effort it self is not that hard for of a mindset he has given us what we need 2Grace and peace be multiplied to you through the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord. 3 His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through the knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and excellence. 4Through these He has given us His precious and magnificent promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, now that you have escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.…

we have the power /authority to defeat sin.. we just have to unlock it and use it .

the real battle is our flesh vs the Spirit .IF we would follow the spirit
1 Thessalonians 5:23 - And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and [I pray God] your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

we have it in us we dont have to beg plead or worry so much about it.....just use it paul wrote
now to him who is able to do exceedingly abundantly above all the we ask or think. according to the POWER that works in us.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Please allow me to quote Ed McMahon —- “You are CORRECT , SIR!” ........ I will leave that “ Acting Holy” crappola to the Pros......mainly to the Phony TV Preachers that have that constant “ forlorn “ look on their faces , thinking that makes them appear sooooo sincere and Holy-Looking......haha.....what a joke! Think “ Paul Washer “ and his ilk........Even my most Heathen Unsaved Friends can see right through that Phoniness.....
God hates Hypocrisy and phoniness ( a little trivia here....hypocrites were pro actors in ancient times that literally donned masks to show their scripted emotions ) God does not give a “ Tinker’s Damn” about anybody that has mastered “ ACTING” Holy......He demands that we “BE” Holy , Just as He demands we “ BE” Perfect !
How on Earth do we BECOME Holy and Perfect as opposed to just “ acting like it ?” If you answered , “ REST in Paul’s Gospel Of Grace”...... go to the head of the Class !
( here’s some more info for you Trivia Buffs out there —“ Being Holy” Simply means to be “ set apart”......God takes All Believers and sets them apart from the World and puts them into an exclusive “ transform them into the Image Of My Son” Club...)
I am the TRUE “ Chief Of Sinners” ( Sorry Paul, you Must step aside— there’s a New Kid in Town ) Yet, God sees me through a Lens Of Grace and declares me BOTH “ Righteous and Holy”. How did I Merit all of this good stuff ? Because I know I do NOT Merit Anything other than a well- deserved Eternity in Hell ( how about you? Haha.....you ain’t fooling anybody! If not for the Grace Of God, YOU would be as Reprobate as the worst sInner in your Town......Cheer up ! You are MUCH WORSE than you Think you are...... probably a lot more like Ol’ Blood Bought than you care to admit.....Every hour of every day you have unclean thoughts that would “ SHAME HELL itself ! ) Get over yourself , Sinner —- God gives us ALL just one way out of this Stinking Mess That we find ourselves in......Jesus paid for ALL the Sins Of the World .....Even Hitler could have been Saved...He simply made the same Mistake that all the Denizens Of Hell make.He did not “ Cash In” on the Finished Work Of The Cross That Jesus accomplished FOR old Adolf...He could have been Declared just as “ Holy and Righteous” as Wretched you and I have been. Alas , He never Turned to God with Faith in Paul’s Gospel . He was devoid of Faith ....no declarations of being “ Holy and Righteous” for him......and NONE FOR YOU unless you see that you are a Wretched Sinner That MUST have a Savior and Turn to Him ( THAt is Repentance, my friend) so you can be declared “ Holy and Perfect”......without those IMPUTATIONS , given to you because of Your Faith in The Shed Blood Of Jesus— Plus NOTHING —- you May get the chance to see the Fuhrer personally.....Please don’t let that happen! Had Adolf only done what the Sinful Tax Collector Had Done, crying out from a Contrite , sincere Heart.....” Lord, have mercy on me, a Sinner....” things would be very different......have you done the equivalent of what the Tax Collector did Yet? You had better pray that you do.....God bless ......

This is all wonderful. But if you make all this mean you can willfully live in sin to avoid being self righteous you're making a very serious error. One that will cost you an eternity.

So don't tell us what we already know about God's grace. Talk about this part of God's grace that you say we can't see that says purposely living in sin when you can't do right is you resting in God's grace because it's you not trying to earn your own salvation.

 

[JLB]

So far no one has addressed my post or the point I made.

Eternal life is a person. His name is Jesus.

He is not temporary. He is Eternal.

He desires us to remain in Him.

The eternal life we have is knowing Him.

Being joined to Him as one spirit with Him.

But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him. 1 Corinthians 6:17

What can be temporary is our relationship to him, based on our choices.

If we remain in Him, we remain joined to eternal life.

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
John 15:6


If we are removed from Him, we are removed from the eternal life that is only found in Him.


“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit.

• Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away;

Again our relationship with Him can be eternal or temporary based on our choices.


Just as any marriage can be permanent or temporary based on choices.


If a husband divorces his wife because of unfaithfulness, does that mean they were never married?

Certainly not!


JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

actually you need to explain
in•doc•tri•nate ĭn-dŏk′trə-nāt″
►

• transitive verb
  To instruct in a body of doctrine or principles.
• transitive verb
  To imbue with a partisan or ideological point of view.
• 
  To imbue with learning, or with a particular doctrine or principle; cause to hold as a doctrine or belief; instruct.

in·doc·tri·nat·ed, in·doc·tri·nat·ing.
to instruct in a doctrine, principle, ideology, etc., especially to imbue with a specific partisan or biased belief or point of view.
to teach or inculcate.
to imbue with learning.
we are all indoctrinated in our belief

By pure definition, to indoctrinate is to teach.
But I'm using the word in it's negative connotation.
Like how Jehovah's Witnesses are indoctrinated in their beliefs.
They are programmed into a certain doctrinal belief system that locks out everything else, blinding them to the truth.
In the same way, Freegrace teaching does the same thing to the church.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

So far no one has addressed my post or the point I made.

Eternal life is a person. His name is Jesus.

He is not temporary. He is Eternal.

He desires us to remain in Him.

The eternal life we have is knowing Him.

Being joined to Him as one spirit with Him.

But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him. 1 Corinthians 6:17

What can be temporary is our relationship to him, based on our choices.

If we remain in Him, we remain joined to eternal life.

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
John 15:6


If we are removed from Him, we are removed from the eternal life that is only found in Him.


“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit.

• Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away;

Again our relationship with Him can be eternal or temporary based on our choices.


Just as any marriage can be permanent or temporary based on choices.


If a husband divorces his wife because of unfaithfulness, does that mean they were never married?

Certainly not!


JLB

This just bounces off of the church because the instant they hear 'eternal' they are programmed to only be able to understand eternal salvation as them not being able to lose salvation for any reason, instead, of what the Bible says eternal salvation means.

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

Excellent Choice.

“Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance. Acts 26:19-20


Please begin following Paul soon.


JLB

Ok.....If you say so.....I think Paul was the One that said “ All things are Lawful to me” and the only way to not break any Laws is to have no Laws to break—- works for me ! And as luck would Have it: It’s SATURDAY NIGHT ! I am going to go downtown and Sin just as much as I WANT tonight! Right now, I am going to take a Pre Night -Of - Sin Nap. I need plenty of rest to sin like I used to.....I will report back later to let you know how it all went down .....all I can say is , “ Hang on to your wigs and keys, ladies and gentlemen—- it’s gonna be a wild night ! Film at Eleven......

 

[jerry63935]

what the Bible says eternal salvation means.

what does it mean then?

 

[jerry63935]

By pure definition, to indoctrinate is to teach.

yes i know what it means i also know what the J.W mormons and others who has off the wall teaching is. your side stepping my point but thats ok because every one of us is indoctrinated . could a southern baptist change your belief on osas? not because your set in your doctrine . false teaching would fall as indoctrinated but it also would be due to blindness

 

[jerry63935]

look i dont care how you believe that is between you and the Good Lord. your just as entitled to your belief as the next person is. my point is when we use the words indoctrinated and yes i have used it to.. we are all set in our beelif so it makes us indoctrinated to any one who thinks its ok to sin as a christian and nothing happen is wrong. the Bible says a way of a transgressor is hard.

 

[netchaplain]

for_his_glory netchaplain LovethroughDove Blood Bought 1953Could you guys please read this and address the point and the scriptures and the definition of the word “fall away”.

Those who are considered to be in Christ are those who profess faith in Him and appear to be keeping His Word. Those who never cease to keep His Word show they are reborn; those who eventually discontinue to keep His Word show they are not reborn; "Every branch in Me that beareth not fruit He taketh away" (Jhn 15:2):

J Gill - "There are two sorts of branches in Christ the vine; the one sort are such who have only an historical faith in him, believe but for a time, and are removed; they are such who only profess to believe in him . . . are in him by profession only; they submit to outward ordinances, become church members, and so are reckoned to be in Christ."

To me everyone's profession simply reveals itself only in two ways. The true believer keeps professing and keeping His Words; and the false professor eventually discontinues the profession and of course the obedience.

It to me comes down being a lover of sinful pleasure, or a lover of God (2Ti 3:4)!

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Ok.....If you say so.....I think Paul was the One that said “ All things are Lawful to me”...

That's what the Corinthians said, not Paul.
And this is Paul's response:

"12All things are lawful for me, but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be mastered by anything." - 1 Corinthians 6:12

...and the only way to not break any Laws is to have no Laws to break—- works for me !

I presume you're referring to Romans 7:8.

"... For apart from the law, sin was dead." - Romans 7:8

To late.
You're a big boy now. You have knowledge of the law and quite acquainted with sin now.
The only way to get free of the sin that the rules provoke is to put the flesh to death through the Holy Spirit, not get rid of the rules. That's how the Christian is no longer under the law:

"6But now, by dying to what once bound us (the flesh), we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit..." - Romans 7:6

"...through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you a free from the law of sin and death." - Romans 8:2

And as luck would Have it: It’s SATURDAY NIGHT ! I am going to go downtown and Sin just as much as I WANT tonight! Right now, I am going to take a Pre Night -Of - Sin Nap. I need plenty of rest to sin like I used to.....I will report back later to let you know how it all went down .....all I can say is , “ Hang on to your wigs and keys, ladies and gentlemen—- it’s gonna be a wild night ! Film at Eleven......

And this is works befitting repentance how?
This is death in Christ how?

 

[JLB]

And as luck would Have it: It’s SATURDAY NIGHT ! I am going to go downtown and Sin just as much as I WANT tonight!

I don’t doubt it one bit.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Those who are considered to be in Christ are those who profess faith in Him and appear to be keeping His Word. Those who never cease to keep His Word show they are reborn; those who eventually discontinue to keep His Word show they are not reborn; "Every branch in Me that beareth not fruit He taketh away" (Jhn 15:2):

J Gill - "There are two sorts of branches in Christ the vine; the one sort are such who have only an historical faith in him, believe but for a time, and are removed; they are such who only profess to believe in him . . . are in him by profession only; they submit to outward ordinances, become church members, and so are reckoned to be in Christ."

To me everyone's profession simply reveals itself only in two ways. The true believer keeps professing and keeping His Words; and the false professor eventually discontinues the profession and of course the obedience.

It to me comes down being a lover of sinful pleasure, or a lover of God (2Ti 3:4)!

Maybe you could answer my question.


If a husband divorces his wife because of unfaithfulness, does that mean they were never married?


JLB