Temporal Salvation?

[JLB]

If you are lukewarm like those of the Church of Laodicea and grieve the Holy Spirit, God will spew you out of His mouth as you were never truly His own, Rev 3:15, 16; Ephesians 4:30

Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, but what is good for necessary edification, that it may impart grace to the hearers. And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice. And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you.
Ephesians 4:29-32


The Holy Spirit is God’s seal of approval, that authenticates we are indeed true Christians. This seal is what a king would put on His letters showing that it was indeed an authentic letter from Him. His seal was imprinted in some wax to prove authenticity.

True Christians are exhorted to forgive one another.

If they obey this, they will remain true Christians.

If we don’t forgive as Christ forgave us, and end up with the fate Jesus spoke of in Matthew 18:32-35, how does that mean we were never saved.


He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels. Revelation 3:5


Only true Christians, who are saved, who have the Holy Spirit, can overcome.


Only true Christians whose names are written in the Book of Life, have the ability to be removed from the book of Life.


IOW, someone who was never saved to begin with, was never in the Book of Life to begin with.


I have addressed this many times in many different ways using different scriptures to make this same point several times, throughout this thread.


One such is, if a wife who is married to her husband is divorced because she is unfaithful, does that somehow mean she was
”never married”?


JLB

 

[JLB]

Did Jesus ever say in regard to James that we should “ follow James as he follows Christ” If your response was “ No”——- go to the Head Of the Class!
Jesus told me , and probably you too, if you are a Gentile, you are to “Follow Paul”. That is what I do when these two Titans Of our Faith disagree on matters......there are NO contradictions between Peter and Paul. It just appears that way .God will clear up this matter “ over there”.... meanwhile , I will go with the one God said “ to follow”. God said Paul was “ a Chosen Vessel”
James did not get the endorsement that Paul received .....A man wont go wrong by going with either one of these men .....having said that, I have made myChoice—— I am going with Paul......

Excellent Choice.

“Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance. Acts 26:19-20


Please begin following Paul soon.


JLB

 

[jerry63935]

There is no such thing as temporal salvation as there is no fence riding when it comes to eternal life in Christ. A true believer is kept secure by the power of God and sealed for the day of redemption, Ephesians 4:30. All which God gives to Christ He will lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day John 6:38-40.

If you are lukewarm like those of the Church of Laodicea and grieve the Holy Spirit, God will spew you out of His mouth as you were never truly His own, Rev 3:15, 16; Ephesians 4:30

then why in the world is this even going on..i been saying this . i feel like a broken record or press 1 to hear this message again. its not scripture never has been scripture -there is Hope yet .thank GOD somebody finally spoke the truth.

 

[jerry63935]

There is no such thing as temporal salvation as there is no fence riding when it comes to eternal life in Christ. A true believer is kept secure by the power of God and sealed for the day of redemption, Ephesians 4:30. All which God gives to Christ He will lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day John 6:38-40.

If you are lukewarm like those of the Church of Laodicea and grieve the Holy Spirit, God will spew you out of His mouth as you were never truly His own, Rev 3:15, 16; Ephesians 4:30

amen...

 

[Jethro Bodine]

There is no such thing as temporal salvation as there is no fence riding when it comes to eternal life in Christ. A true believer is kept secure by the power of God and sealed for the day of redemption, Ephesians 4:30. All which God gives to Christ He will lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day John 6:38-40.

Which is exactly why we should stay in Christ and not fall away from faith in such a great High Priest and Sacrifice:

"14Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has ascended into heaven, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess." - Hebrews 4:14

.

 

[JLB]

There is no such thing as temporal salvation

This has been addressed many times in this thread.

Salvation itself is a Person; His name is Jesus.

Jesus is not temporary.

It’s our believing by which we’re are saved, that can be temporary, resulting in us being saved temporarily.

Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:12-13

Jesus said the condition for being saved is believe.

• lest they should believe and be saved.

This of course refers to believing the way Jesus means believe.

In the next verse, Jesus indicates that these people do in fact believe, and so much so, they are being persecuted BECAUSE they are believers, Christians; followers of Christ.

• who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

The time of temptation being referred to heRE is persecution.

They give In to the temptation to desert the Lord to relieve their suffering and to live a little longer, so they fall away from Christ.

This word fall away tells the whole story.

It means desert Christ; turn away from Christ.

H3068 - Yᵊhōvâ - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (kjv)

H3068 - יְהֹוָה Yᵉhôvâh, yeh-ho-vaw'; from ; (the) self-Existent or Eternal; Jeho-vah, Jewish national name of God:—Jehovah, the Lord. Compare , .

www.blueletterbible.org

The idea here is a person in the army deserting the army to preserve their life, running away from the battle so they can live a little longer.

Because a person deserts the army and runs from the field of battle, does this mean they were “never in the army”?

Certainly not!

For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it. Matthew 16:25


Paul plainly says this very thing to the Corinthians.


Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
1 Corinthians 15:1-2


by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.


If we do not continue to believe, but fall away in unbelief, our initial believing by which we were saved was done in vain.



JLB

 

[jerry63935]

Which is exactly why we should stay in Christ and not fall away from faith in such a great High Priest and Sacrifice:

why would one be a christian and not stay with him? when we stayed with our parents we stayed with them.

if we fail to follow Christ obey it can be a type rebellion ==which amounts to rebellion . at some point or time we have all been guilty

 

[JLB]

Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
1 Corinthians 15:1-2

• if you hold fast that word which I preached to you

The exhortation is to hold fast, confining holding on to the thing by which you were saved; ie believe.

If we “let go” not holding on to Christ, then our initial believing which benefitted us in the past, will no longer benefit us today, since we no longer believe.


This is the message of Christ.


But the seed in the good soil, these are the ones who have heard the word in an honest and good heart, and hold it fast, and bear fruit with perseverance. Luke 8:15 NASB



JLB

 

[jerry63935]

so when the words temporary salvation is used. is that like a temporary tag we can buy for a vehicle . runs out in 30 days ? eternal life is not about being saved one day then few weeks later say .this is not for me people treat salvation like they do weddings and clothes . if they dont like it they discard it God plan is eternal 4 his Glory nailed it down shut.

There is no such thing as temporal salvation as there is no fence riding when it comes to eternal life in Christ. A true believer is kept secure by the power of God and sealed for the day of redemption, Ephesians 4:30. All which God gives to Christ He will lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day John 6:38-40.

If you are lukewarm like those of the Church of Laodicea and grieve the Holy Spirit, God will spew you out of His mouth as you were never truly His own, Rev 3:15, 16; Ephesians 4:30

nothing else needs to be added

 

[JLB]

for_his_glory netchaplain LovethroughDove Blood Bought 1953


Could you guys please read this and address the point and the scriptures and the definition of the word “fall away”.


It seems like the issue of “they were never saved” is being used as some kind of magic wand to “wave away“ the simple truth of God’s word as well as to try and redefine biblical words and terms.


Question:

Because a person deserts the army and runs from the field of battle, does this mean they were “never in the army”?




Salvation itself is a Person; His name is Jesus.

Jesus is not temporary.

It’s our believing by which we are saved, that can be temporary, resulting in us being saved temporarily.

Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:12-13

Jesus said the condition for being saved is believe.

• lest they should believe and be saved.

This of course refers to believing the way Jesus means believe.

In the next verse, Jesus indicates that these people do in fact believe, and so much so, they are being persecuted BECAUSE they are believers, Christians; followers of Christ.

• who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

The time of temptation being referred to heRE is persecution.

They give In to the temptation to desert the Lord to relieve their suffering and to live a little longer, so they fall away from Christ.

This word fall away tells the whole story.

It means desert Christ; turn away from Christ.

G868 - aphistēmi - Strong's Greek Lexicon (KJV)
G868 - ἀφίστημι aphístēmi, af-is'-tay-mee; from and ; to remove, i.e. (actively) instigate to revolt; usually (reflexively) to desist, desert, etc.:—depart, draw (fall) away, refrain, withdraw self.

www.blueletterbible.org


The idea here is a person in the army deserting the army to preserve their life, running away from the battle so they can live a little longer.

Because a person deserts the army and runs from the field of battle, does this mean they were “never in the army”?

Certainly not!

For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it. Matthew 16:25




JLB

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

"Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds." - James 2:18

“By Grace you are Saved , Without works, lest any man should boast”
...... so there you go.....it’s about “ time” this ages - old Controversy was settled once and for all ! Lol......others can argue about this stuff......I’m going for a ride on the Harley .....then I am going to come home and take a nap and then I might go out and play 9 Holes.....Retirement Life is Pure Hell————- NOT! Lol...

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

"What happens with indoctrinations is, first, the indoctrinated person will not see the plain words in scripture that defy what they believe. Apparently, that's where you're at right now. Then when they can no longer deny what the passage says they will invent a way for those words to not really apply to them or make them not really mean what they say." - Jethro Bodine Post #699

Interesting theories on display here in this Post! Based on ignorance of who I am and what I think.....what am I to do to defend myself an apparent “ mind reader?” Beats me.....

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

. The person who can't show their faith by what they do is not saved.

A little bit of Chapter and Verse here would be nice

I saw the Beatles back in 1965 when I was a wee lad.....Cincinnati .......suffered through 20 acts or so before they finally appeared....... for 25 minutes......tickets were $3.50.......

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Did Jesus ever say in regard to James that we should “ follow James as he follows Christ” If your response was “ No”——- go to the Head Of the Class!
Jesus told me , and probably you too, if you are a Gentile, you are to “Follow Paul”. That is what I do when these two Titans Of our Faith disagree on matters......there are NO contradictions between Peter and Paul. It just appears that way .God will clear up this matter “ over there”.... meanwhile , I will go with the one God said “ to follow”. God said Paul was “ a Chosen Vessel”
James did not get the endorsement that Paul received .....A man wont go wrong by going with either one of these men .....having said that, I have made myChoice—— I am going with Paul......

I'll show you again.
Paul said the faith that justifies is the faith that works.
James said the faith that justifies is the faith that works.

"The only thing that counts (towards justification) is faith expressing itself in love." - Galatians 5:6

"14What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them?
18 ...Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds." - James 2:14,18

You think the faith that has no deeds justifies you.
And you're using that lie to rationalize purposely sinning in the face of God's grace.
That's called trampling on the Son, profaning the blood by which you were sanctified, and insulting the Spirit of grace. (Hebrews 10:26,27,28,29,30).
You will not enter the kingdom when Jesus returns.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The person who can't show their faith by what they do is not saved.

A little bit of Chapter and Verse here would be nice

"The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself in love." - Galatians 5:6

"10This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister." - 1 John 3:10

James says the same thing:

"14 ...if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them?" - James 2:14

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I saw the Beatles back in 1965 when I was a wee lad.....Cincinnati .......suffered through 20 acts or so before they finally appeared....... for 25 minutes......tickets were $3.50.......

That would be an awesome memory to have.

I used to work with a woman who frequented the concert scene in the late '60s and early '70s (I think she was a groupie, lol) and she told me about seeing acts like Crosby, Stills, and Nash for just a few dollars. I always said I was born ten years too late.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Interesting theories on display here in this Post! Based on ignorance of who I am and what I think.....what am I to do to defend myself an apparent “ mind reader?” Beats me.....

My mind reading turned out to be correct.
You invented a way for James to not apply to you.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

This is so true.

But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13

• who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

Since the word fall away in the Greek, has “desert“, as one of its meanings, I use the analogy of being in the army. Since this passage is about deserting while under persecution it‘s meaning is closely related to someone deserting the army while under fire from the enemy to be able to live a little longer.

Because they desert the army, does that mean they were never in the army? Of course not. No one who is honest could possibly come to such a conclusion.

The person who falls away, deserts Christ, to save their life from being martyred is the same, since these people were being persecuted BECAUSE they were Christians, they “fell away” from Chris; they deserted Christ.

I believe the reason a person would claim, these who believed for a while were never saved, is because they just don’t understand the narrative or what “fall away“ means.




JLB

Yes, how can one 'fall away' if he already is and always has been fallen? (also Heb 6:6)

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

The mistake you are making is thinking dead faith somehow gives God all the glory and shows you're resting in him and not trying to earn your salvation. But the fact is, if your faith is dead you are not saved. You do not have the love of God in you. You're not resting in God. You have a faith that can not save you. You just think you do:

"14What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? " - James 2:14

"17If anyone has material possessions and sees a brother or sister in need but has no pity on them, how can the love of God be in that person?" - 1 John 3:17

Well, I guess you set “ me “ straight, didn’t you? Lol......of course, I disagree with much of what you said
I believe “ Works” will follow Salvation .Its a Natural Thing That happens as an “ off-shoot” Of an Indwelling Holy Spirit. Having that “ Spirit” is the Crucial Thing That Saves— NOT the off- shoots of it.Lets not forget the Thief on the Cross. He had no Works . Jesus could have said to the poor guy ( btw, wasn’t his name, Ringo ?) That “ Hey, you have Turned to me and shown that you have Faith in Me to Save you, But their is this issue of “ Works”....... you don’t have the time or the ability to prove that I saved you because I am not seeing any Works out of you......rules are rules, you know. Sorry.”
The Main reason God created us humans was for us “ to do Good Works and Bear the Burdens Of Others .” Good Works SHOULD accompany Salvation.....given time I Believe they WILL......The only Point I am trying to make is that they do not HAVE to .....Your Salvation was a GIFT..... Its “ Nothing But The Blood”.... NOT ..... “ Nothing But The Works”......
I listen to music sometimes when I ride the Motorcycle .....guess who I listen to the Most ? Yeah, you guessed it.....the Beatles . I bet you though I was going to say “ Ozzy Osborne”, Right ? Being the Lost, Heathen Man That I am......lol......
I hope that this is not true, but poor old “ No Hell Below Us” John Lennon and “ Hari Krishna” George Harrison are probably in torment at this moment .They at least stumbled upon ONE Truth while they were here on the Planet—— “ All You Need is Love”. It’s a Shame they were blinded by Satan in regard to Resting in Paul’s Gospel Of Grace....Maybe Ringo and Paul are out there somewhere listening.... I would not “ bet the Farm” on this however......not even “ Junior’s Farm”....... and yes, I know that was a “ Wings” tune— not the Beatles.....but you get the point....lol.....

 

[Jethro Bodine]

“By Grace you are Saved , Without works, lest any man should boast”

Everybody knows this.
This is not in dispute anymore in the church.

I wish working works of righteousness to earn salvation was the problem the church was having at this present time. At least there is more hope for them. It's easier to convince a person who tries to work their own righteousness of their sinfulness and need for Christ then it is to convince someone for their need for Christ who thinks they don't have to work works of righteousness because they are saved by faith.

...... so there you go.....it’s about “ time” this ages - old Controversy was settled once and for all ! Lol......others can argue about this stuff......I’m going for a ride on the Harley

It's time to settle this controversy once and for all:

The person who says they are saved by faith but who has no works is deceived. They do not have the faith that makes a person righteous all by itself apart from works that they think they have--their life bearing testimony to that fact. They will be sorely disappointed when Christ returns. And much worse if they've been leading young impressionable believers in Christ with their false doctrine to stumble into the same hell they themselves are going to (Mark 9:42-48).

Real faith that justifies all by itself apart from works is the faith that will then work. That's how you can tell the children of the devil from the children of God (1 John 3:10).