Temporal Salvation?

[Jethro Bodine]

Those who are considered to be in Christ are those who profess faith in Him and appear to be keeping His Word. Those who never cease to keep His Word show they are reborn; those who eventually discontinue to keep His Word show they are not reborn; "Every branch in Me that beareth not fruit He taketh away" (Jhn 15:2):

J Gill - "There are two sorts of branches in Christ the vine; the one sort are such who have only an historical faith in him, believe but for a time, and are removed; they are such who only profess to believe in him . . . are in him by profession only; they submit to outward ordinances, become church members, and so are reckoned to be in Christ."

To me everyone's profession simply reveals itself only in two ways. The true believer keeps professing and keeping His Words; and the false professor eventually discontinues the profession and of course the obedience.

It to me comes down being a lover of sinful pleasure, or a lover of God (2Ti 3:4)!

The Spirit-filled, saved Galatians fell away from faith in Christ:

"Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? 3Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?" - Galatians 3:2-3

"10You are observing special days and months and seasons and years! 11I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you." - Galatians 4:10-11

"2Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all.
4You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace." - Galatians 5:2,4

Please, put away the theology books and read the Bible for yourself. And don't let any predetermined doctrinal construct keep you from seeing what the Bible actually says.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

why would one be a christian and not stay with him?

Jesus says why:

"When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away." - Matthew 13:21

if we fail to follow Christ obey it can be a type rebellion ==which amounts to rebellion . at some point or time we have all been guilty

We're talking about falling back into unbelief, not just sinning.

 

[jerry63935]

Jesus says why:

"When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away." - Matthew 13:21


We're talking about falling back into unbelief, not just sinning.

Mark 4:12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them. .. i am retiring from this thread totally these post is like a pencil with two erasers->no point

 

[Jethro Bodine]

so when the words temporary salvation is used. is that like a temporary tag we can buy for a vehicle . runs out in 30 days ? eternal life is not about being saved one day then few weeks later say .this is not for me people treat salvation like they do weddings and clothes . if they dont like it they discard it God plan is eternal 4 his Glory nailed it down shut.

nothing else needs to be added

You know what a 'forever' stamp is, right?
Does that mean you can never lose it, or does it mean it will always be of sufficient value to send a letter?

That's what eternal salvation means.
It doesn't mean you can never lose it no matter what.
It means you have a Sacrifice of sufficient value to keep you saved forever.

"..the blood of the eternal covenant..." - Hebrews 13:20

See? The Covenant is eternal, not necessarily your participation in that Covenant.
It's an eternal covenant that doesn't peter out with your next sin, or with the failure of an imperfect priest with his imperfect sacrifice.
And because this is true we are exhorted to continue to hold onto such a great salvation. For the promise of an eternal salvation that never fails is only for the person who continues to believe, not for the person who loses it by falling away in unbelief, for example, to a 'different gospel like the Galatians and the Corinthians did.

"14Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has ascended into heaven, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess." - Hebrews 4:14

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Mark 4:12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them. .. i am retiring from this thread totally these post is like a pencil with two erasers->no point

Can you show me that I'm reading the Hebrews passages incorrectly?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I don’t doubt it one bit.


JLB

He must be going downtown to riot and loot.

 

[jerry63935]

Can you show me that I'm reading the Hebrews passages incorrectly?

nope your convinced your right no matter what

 

[JLB]

He must be going downtown to riot and loot.

That’s a myth.

It’s all peaceful protesting.

JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

.

That’s a myth.

It’s all peaceful protesting.

JLB

Oh, that's right.................I forgot.

 

[for_his_glory]

Could you guys please read this and address the point and the scriptures and the definition of the word “fall away”.

Those who fall away are those who have fallen from faith in Christ no longer trusting in the things they were taught in all truths as they give heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils, 1 Timothy 4:1, 2; Galatians 3:1, 2 Thessalonians 2:3, 4; 1 John 2:18, 19.

You are either Christ's own or you are none of His as God's salvation is for all who will believe in the Son of God and are obedient to God's commands and statures sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption, Ephesians 4:30. Salvation can not be temporal because God is not temporal as He promised He would never leave us or forsake us, but many find themselves falling away from God because their names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world, Rev 13:8; 17:8, as they love the beast more than they love God.

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

Please begin following Paul soon.

How do YOU Follow Paul? Like MOST of the Poorly taught Church World? They proclaim , “ Why , of COURSE Jesus Saves! It’s just that once you know “ that” you gotta “ Keep” yourself Saved by Keeping the Commandments to prove you Love God and then you must have a “ squeaky-Clean” Repentance Ledger, making sure that ALL your Sins have been remembered and wailed over before you kick the bucket.”
We are saved by Trusting Jesus , Plus NOTHING.....
Those That put one foot in Grace , but make certain they keep the other foot firmly in Commandment - Keeping .......just for a little “ Insurance” are not showing any Trust in the Finished Work Of The Cross. They are not “RESTING” in Paul’s Gospel Of Pure Grace......They Trample the Blood Of Christ and don’t even know it. They “ trample” it because even though they “ may” know that the Blood Of Christ is ESSENTIAL for Salvation , they just can’t take that “ leap of Faith” that says not only is the Blood Of Jesus “ Essential to Save”——— it is also “ ADEQUATE to Save”
I REST in Paul’s Saving Gospel.....that automatically entails not ever having to worry about losing my Salvation......Worry is the opposite of Rest......If you ever worry about becoming Lost —- if you do not Believe that a Gospel That Jesus says really Saves does NOT save, you got a big problem—- God will declare you Guilty Of Disobedience and UNBELIEF ( heb3 and 4) ....I suggest strongly that you Pray to God and have Him show you how to exhibit Saving Faith by Resting in His Gospel Of Grace Plus Nothing......Jesus is not looking for a “Co- Savior”...... Stop trying to be one......

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

That would be an awesome memory to have.

I used to work with a woman who frequented the concert scene in the late '60s and early '70s (I think she was a groupie, lol) and she told me about seeing acts like Crosby, Stills, and Nash for just a few dollars. I always said I was born ten years too late.

I went to a Jimi Hendrix concert in Charleston , West Virginia back in the sixties ......after he had Finished his final song, he threw his guitar pick out to the audience.....it hit the floor and somehow I grabbed it! Kept it in my wallet for years......somehow I lost it .....probably involved alcohol .....lol.....

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

If we don’t forgive as Christ forgave us, and end up with the fate Jesus spoke of in Matthew 18:32-35, how does that mean we were never saved.

Excellent example of Law.....Under Grace , we are already Forgiven.....the Cross changed Everything.... thank God for that “ change”......

 

[for_his_glory]

True Christians are exhorted to forgive one another.

If they obey this, they will remain true Christians.

If we don’t forgive as Christ forgave us, and end up with the fate Jesus spoke of in Matthew 18:32-35, how does that mean we were never saved.

Mark 11:25 And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.
Mark 11:26 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.

Only true Christians, who are saved, who have the Holy Spirit, can overcome.

I agree

Only true Christians whose names are written in the Book of Life, have the ability to be removed from the book of Life.

They have the ability to have their names removed if they remove themselves from faith and the truths they were taught to begin with

IOW, someone who was never saved to begin with, was never in the Book of Life to begin with.

I agree

One such is, if a wife who is married to her husband is divorced because she is unfaithful, does that somehow mean she was
”never married”?

No as she was married, but never fully committed to her vows of the marriage, for if she did she would have remained faithful to her husband.



Only a true Christian will remain faithful no matter what comes against them that would cause them to believe a lie as they seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God and will not allow themselves to be seduced by lying spirits teaching doctrines of devils, 1 Timothy 4:1.

Col 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
Col 3:2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
Col 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
Col 3:4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

 

[for_his_glory]

unless you believed in vain.

It is those who believed in vain having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 2 Timothy 3:5-7.

They are ever learning as they are seduced by lying spirits as they learn from the doctrine of devils never coming to the knowledge of truth.

 

[for_his_glory]

A little bit of Chapter and Verse here would be nice

I saw the Beatles back in 1965 when I was a wee lad.....Cincinnati .......suffered through 20 acts or so before they finally appeared....... for 25 minutes......tickets were $3.50.......

James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
James 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
James 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

Yes, I know you believe that.
The problem is you think it's okay to purposely sin while you're waiting around for God to do that.
You erroneously think that if you have to make an effort to restrain sin and do the right thing you're guilty of not resting in Christ and trying to earn your own salvation, and that God gets glory out of you sinning, causing grace to abound, than if you try to work for him. I'm well aware of what this Freegrace doctrine teaches.

Wow. With all due respect.....this almost sounds like a Parody Of The Free grace Movement .... Do you really think That I Believe it’s “ O K to sin?” I believe that ANY type Of Sin is awful . Every Sin , small or large , always hurts somebody—- us, the person sinned against and God Himself ....Before I became a Man Of Faith , I sinned with abandon ! I absolutely dug the heck out of the “ pleasures” of Sin ! Did you even know that that is Biblical ? The Bible freely admits that Sin is pleasurable! That is one of Satan’s best “ snares”......He “ conveniently” forgets to reveal the Full Truth about Sin.....Yes , it’s “ pleasurable” alright——- FOR A SEASON ! Inevitably, Sin will ALWAYS come back to haunt you ....
Everybody on this planet , including Saved, Born Again Believers is “ Free to Sin”.....and we ALL do it ! Just because I actually Believe The Blood covers ALL of my Sins.....just because I Believe Jesus when He says That His Amazing Grace trumps my Sins, that does not give me the desire to Sin .....what you guys do not seem to understand is that just because I do not think that my hourly sins ( your thought- life counts also ) are-going to get me cast into Hell If I forget to confess them immediately or forget to express Repentance from them before I die, that does DOES NOT imply that I am Foolish enough to think “ we can Sin and get away with it!” Just because YOUR Carnality will not let you allow you to envision a scenario whereby God sets you totally Free and you Don ‘t take that Freedom as a “ License to Sin” ,doesn’t mean that “ everybody” has this Flaw....
Now that I am Forever Saved Man Of Faith , Who is a New Creation in Christ Jesus, who has a New Heart complete with New Desires, Sin has the same appeal as me as a Drano Enema, or sticking my hand in a fire.....I feel bad just by accidentally stepping on a worm....lol
All the preoccupation with sin shows a lack of trust to the One who took care of Sin 2000 years ago.....How about showing some Faith in Jesus and becoming a Tad more “ SON” Conscience as opposed to being so “SIN” Conscience ?
What you guys absolutely will NEVER understand is this......The same, EXACT second I discovered I could sin and not be damned for it because it finally HIT ME—- Jesus actually DID Die for ALL of my Sins—- That was the same Second I did not WANT to Sin anymore......God’s Will had become my Own Will. Ironic isn’t it ? All of my Life I wanted to “get my way” and nowThat it comes to pass , “my way” is the same as God's Way...... Thanks be to God's Mercy, I have been given the ultimate key to Victory in this Evil World ..... I have discovered the Freedom Of True Christianity and all I want to do with that “ Freedom” is be Christ’s Slave....... Christianity sure is “crazy” in some ways , isn’t it ? Don’t feel too bad if you fail to understand a lot of this stuff ...... many things about God and His Ways must be “ Spiritually Discerned” and most, if not ALL of the critics of Hyper-Grace lack that “ Spirit”......Some things are almost impossible to explain to others.....especially if they lack “ ears to hear” .....some things just gotta be lived out...... God bless....

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

I don't know how you conclude Ringo (lol) had no works. He did not sin and steadfastly endured to the end in righteousness in unspeakable suffering. He has far more boast of the grace of God at work in him than you and I and all our friends put together. I won't even dare put the works of faith God has wrought in me up to his works of righteousness on his cross.

So in the end.....it all came down to his Performance....he was a good-boy, he “endured”..... he suffered adequately without complaining .....I am not quite sure if you allow for anything that Jesus May have done that day, but assuming that Jesus DID save the Thief , you make it abundantly clear that the Thief “ kept” Himself Saved by his stellar Performance ....
You say, “ He did not sin”...... no mention of the Conviction Of Sin by the Holy Spirit ... the turning to Jesus as a lost Sinner, the Grace Of God in Forgiving Him and no mentioning of the unconditional Promise that Jesus extended to this man to give him the peace of mind as he was dying....
But then, the things that I am calling to Attention shows why the Saved Thief ‘s Story is an example of the Complete Story Of everything involved in Salvation......Jesus NEVER told the thief “ This Day, I will see you in Paradise .....”IF” you do do this and Don’t do that !”
Come to think of it——- Jesus never told US that Garbage either, and if you hear anybody preach the Salvation Process that contains stuff you dont see in this wondrous Story Of the complete Salvation Story you are hearing a “ False Gospel”......I hope you Newbies out there especially will run from it .....God Bless .....

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

I'll show you again.
Paul said the faith that justifies is the faith that works.
James said the faith that justifies is the faith that works.

"The only thing that counts (towards justification) is faith expressing itself in love." - Galatians 5:6

"14What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them?
18 ...Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds." - James 2:14,18

You think the faith that has no deeds justifies you.
And you're using that lie to rationalize purposely sinning in the face of God's grace.
That's called trampling on the Son, profaning the blood by which you were sanctified, and insulting the Spirit of grace. (Hebrews 10:26,27,28,29,30).
You will not enter the kingdom when Jesus returns.

Sez you......
Somebody once remarked— Patriotism is the last refuge of a Soundrel
Somebody else remarked—- The Book Of James is the last refuge of a Legalist

Jesus said the Sinful Tax Collector went home “ Justified” after his Contrite Heart lead him to pray to God, “ Lord , have mercy on me, a sinner”
So now we have that to contend with that also! What will we do.....what WILL we do? Beats me....I think I’ll do what Paul said to do and just continue to plod along , finishing my walk of Faith the same way I started it .....by Resting in the Gospel Of Grace and the Promises Of God....I have done everything that I have to do in order to be Saved......yes I did it all.....I completed all of my obligations.What did I do in order to be Saved? I asked.
God promises to extend Mercy to ALL that ask for it. He Promise to save to the UTTERMOST all that come to Him with Faith in His Son, Jesus. I did those things......God stuck His neck out with these great Promises......I trust God to keep His Word....that is why I am Saved...
I got plenty of “Works” , but I must admit I do those things purely out of selfish reasons ....I derive Pleasure from being kind to people and by bearing the burdens of others.....THOSe are the Works that God wants to see out of His Children, therefore no matter HOW one looks at it —- be it Hyper Grace and Faith Plus Nothing or Saved by Faith Plus Good Works—- I’ve got all of my bases covered......
As I follow the only orders I am aware of in this Age Of Grace ( Believe and Love) I discover all the other stuff people get their panties in a knot about—— Works, Obedience ,etc—— they just have a way of occurring Naturally in my life.....kinda like “ Fruit”...... does that “ ring a Bell?”

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

I'll show you again.
Paul said the faith that justifies is the faith that works.
James said the faith that justifies is the faith that works.

"The only thing that counts (towards justification) is faith expressing itself in love." - Galatians 5:6

"14What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them?
18 ...Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds." - James 2:14,18

You think the faith that has no deeds justifies you.
And you're using that lie to rationalize purposely sinning in the face of God's grace.
That's called trampling on the Son, profaning the blood by which you were sanctified, and insulting the Spirit of grace. (Hebrews 10:26,27,28,29,30).
You will not enter the kingdom when Jesus returns.

You have no idea what you are talking about......and it’s very late and and I am too tired to straighten you out tonight....perhaps later......your assumptions about me and my views make you look foolish and you don’t even know it......stick with only the things you know to be True and try not to criticize things that you do not understand .....