Temporal Salvation?

[Blood Bought 1953]

Everybody knows this.
This is not in dispute anymore in the church.

I wish working works of righteousness to earn salvation was the problem the church was having at this present time. At least there is more hope for them. It's easier to convince a person who tries to work their own righteousness of their sinfulness and need for Christ then it is to convince someone for their need for Christ who thinks they don't have to work works of righteousness because they are saved by faith.


It's time to settle this controversy once and for all:

The person who says they are saved by faith but who has no works is deceived. They do not have the faith that makes a person righteous all by itself apart from works that they think they have--their life bearing testimony to that fact. They will be sorely disappointed when Christ returns. And much worse if they've been leading young impressionable believers in Christ with their false doctrine to stumble into the same hell they themselves are going to (Mark 9:42-48).

Real faith that justifies all by itself apart from works is the faith that will then work. That's how you can tell the children of the devil from the children of God (1 John 3:10).

Works that do not flow naturally from the Indwelling Holy Spirit are just “ Dead Works”.....don't waste your time with them——you ain’t impressing God with them.

The works that count are similar to the way in which a tree produces fruit.....if we see a fruit that is not bearing fruit, we don’t go up to it , grab it by the trunk real hard, and then start shaking it violently , yelling at it——“ PRODUCE FRUIT ....PRODUCE FRUIT, DAMN YOU !” Fruit Growing and Performing Good Works Will Both happen naturally if all of the ingredients are right....
Some things can’t be forced...
In the case of Christianity, If you Have The Holy Spirit within you, and of course you do if you are a Christian because if you Lack That Spirit, you are “None Of His”. So anyway , being a Christian , let the Holy Spirit hang around long enough and the “ Good Works” should show up to.....they do not HAVE to show up , but they should ....Fruit in the life of the Believer is not the determining factor in one’s Salvation.....the Possesion Of The Spirit That is behind the Fruit Growing is what counts.....Sometimes the Fruit Growing happens in places that are not readily apparent to a Judgmental eye....why not let God worry about it and we can attend to our own trees...

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Wow. With all due respect.....this almost sounds like a Parody Of The Free grace Movement .... Do you really think That I Believe it’s “ O K to sin?” I believe that ANY type Of Sin is awful . Every Sin , small or large , always hurts somebody—- us, the person sinned against and God Himself ....Before I became a Man Of Faith , I sinned with abandon ! I absolutely dug the heck out of the “ pleasures” of Sin ! Did you even know that that is Biblical ? The Bible freely admits that Sin is pleasurable! That is one of Satan’s best “ snares”......He “ conveniently” forgets to reveal the Full Truth about Sin.....Yes , it’s “ pleasurable” alright——- FOR A SEASON ! Inevitably, Sin will ALWAYS come back to haunt you ....
Everybody on this planet , including Saved, Born Again Believers is “ Free to Sin”.....and we ALL do it ! Just because I actually Believe The Blood covers ALL of my Sins.....just because I Believe Jesus when He says That His Amazing Grace trumps my Sins, that does not give me the desire to Sin .....what you guys do not seem to understand is that just because I do not think that my hourly sins ( your thought- life counts also ) are-going to get me cast into Hell If I forget to confess them immediately or forget to express Repentance from them before I die, that does DOES NOT imply that I am Foolish enough to think “ we can Sin and get away with it!” Just because YOUR Carnality will not let you allow you to envision a scenario whereby God sets you totally Free and you Don ‘t take that Freedom as a “ License to Sin” ,doesn’t mean that “ everybody” has this Flaw....
Now that I am Forever Saved Man Of Faith , Who is a New Creation in Christ Jesus, who has a New Heart complete with New Desires, Sin has the same appeal as me as a Drano Enema, or sticking my hand in a fire.....I feel bad just by accidentally stepping on a worm....lol
All the preoccupation with sin shows a lack of trust to the One who took care of Sin 2000 years ago.....How about showing some Faith in Jesus and becoming a Tad more “ SON” Conscience as opposed to being so “SIN” Conscience ?
What you guys absolutely will NEVER understand is this......The same, EXACT second I discovered I could sin and not be damned for it because it finally HIT ME—- Jesus actually DID Die for ALL of my Sins—- That was the same Second I did not WANT to Sin anymore......God’s Will had become my Own Will. Ironic isn’t it ? All of my Life I wanted to “get my way” and nowThat it comes to pass , “my way” is the same as God's Way...... Thanks be to God's Mercy, I have been given the ultimate key to Victory in this Evil World ..... I have discovered the Freedom Of True Christianity and all I want to do with that “ Freedom” is be Christ’s Slave....... Christianity sure is “crazy” in some ways , isn’t it ? Don’t feel too bad if you fail to understand a lot of this stuff ...... many things about God and His Ways must be “ Spiritually Discerned” and most, if not ALL of the critics of Hyper-Grace lack that “ Spirit”......Some things are almost impossible to explain to others.....especially if they lack “ ears to hear” .....some things just gotta be lived out...... God bless....

None of these accusations apply to me.
Why did you address this to me?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

you make it abundantly clear that the Thief “ kept” Himself Saved by his stellar Performance ....

I just got done reading a long post from you about how not sinning is the result of salvation. Now you're condemning enduring to the end as a self righteous work.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

But then, the things that I am calling to Attention shows why the Saved Thief ‘s Story is an example of the Complete Story Of everything involved in Salvation......Jesus NEVER told the thief “ This Day, I will see you in Paradise .....”IF” you do do this and Don’t do that !”

Who here is saying works earn salvation??????

The correct argument is you can not go back to unbelief and still be saved.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Somebody else remarked—- The Book Of James is the last refuge of a Legalist

Who is a legalist here?

How does saying works are the obligatory sign and outcome of genuine faith make you a legalist?
If that's what makes a person a legalist then every Calvinist is a legalist. You know this, right?
I don't think you know what a legalist is.

I'm convinced the person who rails against this teaching doesn't have any works to show for his faith.
Just being honest here.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Jesus said the Sinful Tax Collector went home “ Justified” after his Contrite Heart lead him to pray to God, “ Lord , have mercy on me, a sinner”
So now we have that to contend with that also!

Who is contending with this????
This is exactly how I got saved. Exactly!

I think you're grinding an axe fueled by some past experience with the church of the world.
The problem I've noticed about people who do that is they see what they're fighting against behind every tree and under every rock. You're doing that. You're leveling arguments against me that don't apply to me. You're blinded by your rage against whoever it is that offended you in the past. And chances are, they weren't wrong, maybe a bit misguided, but they were not wrong in bringing conviction to you about your sin.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

What will we do.....what WILL we do? Beats me....I think I’ll do what Paul said to do and just continue to plod along , finishing my walk of Faith the same way I started it .....by Resting in the Gospel Of Grace and the Promises Of God....I have done everything that I have to do in order to be Saved......yes I did it all.....I completed all of my obligations.What did I do in order to be Saved? I asked.
God promises to extend Mercy to ALL that ask for it. He Promise to save to the UTTERMOST all that come to Him with Faith in His Son, Jesus. I did those things......God stuck His neck out with these great Promises......I trust God to keep His Word....that is why I am Saved...
I got plenty of “Works” , but I must admit I do those things purely out of selfish reasons ....I derive Pleasure from being kind to people and by bearing the burdens of others.....THOSe are the Works that God wants to see out of His Children, therefore no matter HOW one looks at it —- be it Hyper Grace and Faith Plus Nothing or Saved by Faith Plus Good Works—- I’ve got all of my bases covered......
As I follow the only orders I am aware of in this Age Of Grace ( Believe and Love) I discover all the other stuff people get their panties in a knot about—— Works, Obedience ,etc—— they just have a way of occurring Naturally in my life.....kinda like “ Fruit”...... does that “ ring a Bell?”

The argument is you can not go back to unbelief and still be saved.
THAT you can not do.
You can not go back to your old life in unbelief.
That is not legalism.
This isn't about working to earn salvation and keep it. It's about continuing to believe to continue to be saved.
I think you're one getting his undies in a bunch because you seem terribly offended by the fact that believing is evidenced by how you live....you know that four letter word in the church never to be uttered.....work. That has nothing to do with earning your salvation. It has EVERYTHING to do with having the evidence that invariably MUST follow saving faith, or else you don't have saving faith. And like I say, it seems that those who simply don't have a changed life in Christ are the one's who get terribly offended by this.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

You have no idea what you are talking about......and it’s very late and and I am too tired to straighten you out tonight....perhaps later......your assumptions about me and my views make you look foolish and you don’t even know it......stick with only the things you know to be True and try not to criticize things that you do not understand .....

I'm showing you that James and Paul are on exactly the same page.
Both taught that the faith that justifies is the faith that works.
You claim that James said one thing, and Paul another.
I proved to you right from the scriptures that James is not in contradiction to Paul, or John for that matter.
They are all in agreement that the faith that justifies all by itself apart from works is that faith that will not be alone (void of works). Freegrace doctrine misleads the church and says your faith can be alone and you are still saved.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Works that do not flow naturally from the Indwelling Holy Spirit are just “ Dead Works”.....don't waste your time with them——you ain’t impressing God with them.

Where did you get this definition of dead works???
Dead works are the sinful things you do from the flesh (Romans 7:5, Hebrews 6:1, Hebrews 9:14), not the right things that a person can do with or without the Spirit.

And it isn't about impressing God with them (you're grinding your axe again). It's about not being condemned by a sin you did not commit.

 

[JLB]

None of these accusations apply to me.
Why did you address this to me?

The reason he is falsely implying these things in his address to you is, he doesn’t read what you actually write.

Like many of the people who push back against what the scriptures so plainly say, they don’t read, and therefore they don’t understand what the point of discussion pertains to.

Their preconceived idea or concept of the discussion tells them they already know and understand, and therefore there is no need to actually read or study.


This is primarily the work of a stronghold that is formed into the mind of Christian‘s in the early stages of their development, when concepts are being formed.

For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ, 2 Corinthians 10:4-5




Satan understands the crucial time to indoctrinate the mind and form a stronghold, a false set of beliefs that resist the knowledge of God, is when the mind is in the early stages of development, in the new believer.

Train up a child in the way he should go,
Even when he is old he will not depart from it.
Proverbs 22:6


A young Christian, no matter how old, must learn the principles and doctrines that are the foundation which their Christian life will be built upon.

If they are indoctrinated with a false belief system, a faulty foundation that will not sustain them and their faith, when the storms and challenges of this life occur, they will fall away.

This is why it’s so crucial to have a depth of understanding, a depth of root; a strong root system that will sustain the growth.


Jesus said the key to fruitfulness is “understanding”.


But he who received seed on the good ground is he who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and produces: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.”
Matthew 13:23


This is what you are fighting.


The truth is the weapon.


You shall know the truth and the truth will make you free.


JLB

 

[JLB]

And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
John 8:32



Know — ginōskō. — G1097

1. to learn to know, come to know, get a knowledge of perceive, feel
   1. to become known
2. to know, understand, perceive, have knowledge of
   1. to understand
   2. to know
3. Jewish idiom for sexual intercourse between a man and a woman
4. to become acquainted with, to know

 

[JLB]

why not let God worry about it and we can attend to our own trees...

 

[jerry63935]

Those who fall away are those who have fallen from faith in Christ no longer trusting in the things they were taught in all truths as they give heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils, 1 Timothy 4:1, 2; Galatians 3:1, 2 Thessalonians 2:3, 4; 1 John 2:18, 19.

You are either Christ's own or you are none of His as God's salvation is for all who will believe in the Son of God and are obedient to God's commands and statures sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption, Ephesians 4:30. Salvation can not be temporal because God is not temporal as He promised He would never leave us or forsake us, but many find themselves falling away from God because their names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world, Rev 13:8; 17:8, as they love the beast more than they love God.

you just dont get any more truth than this

 

[netchaplain]

The Spirit-filled, saved Galatians fell away from faith in Christ:

"Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? 3Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?" - Galatians 3:2-3

I must admit, you usually pick good applicable passages!

Gal 1:6 shows the start of Paul’s reproof concerning the issue being “removed,” not in deed but in thought upon considering the false teachers suggestions, and not conceiving them. For nowhere is there confirmation that they actually decided to follow these errors. This is also evident by the phrase “should not obey,” as opposed to have not obeyed (3:1). Notice 3:3 is also a question and not an implication, as there are only admonishments throughout the Book, along with Paul reminding them how they they are redeemed, by grace, not the law. We should also realize that many believers at that time were immature in the Word, it being close to the beginning of Christendom, i.e. "unskillful in the word of righteousness" (Heb 5:13).

"10You are observing special days and months and seasons and years! 11I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you." - Galatians 4:10-11

4:10, 11 Paul is telling them he is wondering about them, not actually accusing them. I think he was appealing to their integrity by saying something that he knew was not so, which was that they would have wasted his time on them.

"2Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all.
4You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace." - Galatians 5:2,4

(5:2) Here Paul is not accusing that they went back, but admonishing them that if they actually desired to trust in circumcision they are not trusting in Christ, resulting in no spiritual benefit to them.

(5:4) The phrase "you who are trying" is not a specific accusation but a general supposition, that if anyone is trying to return to trusting in the law, it would be as though you have fallen from grace. This supposition is a hyperbolic expression with the sense that it would be impossible to do, for no one can trust in the law and grace, it just doesn't work. It's one or the other, and the former is no way to redemption, but rather needs redeemed from (Gal 4:5 ).

I believe Paul knew they were genuine believers but was addressing the matter in a way they could learn the most (5:10).

 

[JLB]

Mark 11:25 And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.
Mark 11:26 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses

What are the consequences of a born again Christian, who holds unforgiveness?



JLB

 

[JLB]

It is those who believed in vain having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 2 Timothy 3:5-7.

They are ever learning as they are seduced by lying spirits as they learn from the doctrine of devils never coming to the knowledge of truth.

Of course people who believe in vain, who have a form of godliness, are not saved.

No question about it. I could agree more.


Paul is saying to those who are saved, if you don’t “hold fast” then your initial believing by which you were saved, was in vain.

IOW Paul is indeed speaking to people who are saved.

• which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved,

Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
1 Corinthians 15:1-2


Again, so we are on the same page, and each of us fully understands what Paul is saying, and who Paul is addressing, I will say it again.


Paul is saying to those who are saved, if you don’t “hold fast” then your initial believing by which you were saved, was in vain.


If we do not continue to believe, “holding fast“ to the Gospel by which we were saved, our initial believing by which we were saved was done in vain; it no longer benefits you.



JLB

 

[JLB]

Those who fall away are those who have fallen from faith in Christ no longer trusting in the things they were taught in all truths as they give heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils,

Amen. They have departed from the faith.


:amen



JLB

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

Mark 11:25 And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.
Mark 11:26 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.

Once again.....Jesus preaching Law, in the “Age Of Law”.....
In this Present “ Age Of Grace”, I do not even have to “ASK” for Forgiveness ! God gave me something better! Simply “ For His Own Sake” , God took all of my Sins and cast them into the “ deepest depths of the Ocean”... Then, what happens next is those sins just kinda Languish down there and become “ Forgotten”...... they were Pain For “ In Full” 2000 years ago....
Some day I will stand before God , and Satan will be standing off to the side , pointing his evil finger at me , probably slobbering as he can’t wait to see ol’ Blood Bought finally “ get what he DESERVES ! (and “ deserves” hits the nail right on the head— I’ve done things so awful, they would make Hugh Hefner blush....) Anyway, after many days of accusation have passed since yours truly has an Extremely Thick File Of Sins , Satan will kick his lips , look at God and declare , “OK , God .... This is Judgement Day ! Give him what he DESERVES for his WareHouse full of Sins!!! God will simply respond with this—- “ What SINS, “BrimStone Boy? Why, I can’t seem to Remember them no more! I seem to have Forgotten Them! Didn’t we just go through this Hog Wash the other Day with that guy who called himself , “ BEHOLD?” God has been down this Road so many times when Satan accuses any of His Saints, He can barely keep His Eyes open. Thankfully , Jesus takes over..... “ Satan , you always were a Liar, in Fact you were The “ Father Of Lies”—- Here’s the Truth. That Sin you mentioned? And just WHEN will BB get what he “ Deserves?” See if you can wrap your pea-brain around THIS—- “ I” Loved this Wretched Sinner so much that I did two things that Ugly Afternoon at Calvary that you did not see coming . You were so overcome with Glee as you watched me suffer that day , thinking idiotically that YOU were the Victorious One, you missed the Wisdom and the Love and the Grace Of God that was on Display that Day. What happened that day , as terrible as it appeared to the Ignorant Eye, was an Event that “ pleasured God!” Why, “ that’s INSANE !” You ignorantly cry out ! God Derived “Pleasure” From this Most Evil Act In History and you even claim that Jesus accepted the Shame Of The Cross because he knew the Praise That would be His Forever on the Other Side Of this Monstrous Event?
Here is the explanation for this Seeming Madness .Jesus showed the Entire World His Love for all of us who had wanted NOTHING to do with Him, we were all DEAD in Our selfish “Trespasses and Sins”.... We , in fact, were His Enemies. God does NOT NEED us! We can Add NOTHING to Him! He could give us all over to Satan and no man would have the right to complain about it.
But what did Jesus do ? He took the Wrath Of God that BB and YOU so well deserve and put it ALL upon Himself . Pretty impressive , huh? Well, that’s just HALF of what He did . He also took His Righteousness and GAVE it to you . God sees all Believers now as PERFECT ! Jesus got our Sins—- WE got His Righteousness. What an incredible Deal. What an Amazing God . Jesus will rightfully be Adored and Praised for Eternity for what HE ALONE accomplished with His Finished Work Of the Cross !
To even “THINK” as some Delusional Fools Do , that they can Add to what Jesus did that Day at Calvary .....to even “ THINK” that they can be some type of “ Co-Savior” because of their “ commandment-Keeping” abilities or their “ SUPER MEMORY- propelled ,Lucky Repentance Regimen , whereby they had the “Luck” to Remember and feel Sorry for ALL of their Sins before they died.......
This stuff is far worse than the “ dung” it is described as.....it makes me want to Vomit.... The ONLY Two Things That ever Save ANYBODY that was Ever Saved or Ever WILL Be Saved are GOD’s GRACE and OUR FAITH ! plus NOTHInG ! Are you teaching or Preaching a message that differs from what was just said here? Does your Teaching differ from Paul’s Gospel that says that if we simply BELIEVE It , ( 1Cor15:1-4 Christ died for our Sins and rose from the dead ) Jesus will Save Us to the UTTERMOST ! If so, God’s Word From Galatians proclaims That you are Teaching a Perverted Gospel and you are “ Accursed” .....Damned by God Forever.....
Newbies please put this in your Heart.....that New One that God gave you , if you indeed are Saved......Resting in the Gospel Of Grace Is what Saves .....Anybody That Truly Rest in The Gospel has NO REASON to ever doubt their Salvation.....If you are still “ Trying” ( by your Performance ) to get Saved , as opposed to “ Trusting” in CHRIST’S Performance to “GET” You Saved......you are in VERY Serious jeopardy of BEING LOST for Eternity .NEVER forget the Song That had ur Right all along —— “ Nothing But The Blood Of Jesus”......May God bless us ALL in the understanding of these things things!

 

[JLB]

Once again.....Jesus preaching Law, in the “Age Of Law”.....

Utterly and completely false.


“The law and the prophets were until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it. Luke 16:16

The is no such thing as the age of Law.


Jesus Christ preached the Gospel, the same gospel that we are to preach in all the world, then the end will come.


And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.
Matthew 24:14




JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

Wow. With all due respect.....this almost sounds like a Parody Of The Free grace Movement .... Do you really think That I Believe it’s “ O K to sin?” I believe that ANY type Of Sin is awful . Every Sin , small or large , always hurts somebody—- us, the person sinned against and God Himself ....Before I became a Man Of Faith , I sinned with abandon ! I absolutely dug the heck out of the “ pleasures” of Sin ! Did you even know that that is Biblical ? The Bible freely admits that Sin is pleasurable! That is one of Satan’s best “ snares”......He “ conveniently” forgets to reveal the Full Truth about Sin.....Yes , it’s “ pleasurable” alright——- FOR A SEASON ! Inevitably, Sin will ALWAYS come back to haunt you ....
Everybody on this planet , including Saved, Born Again Believers is “ Free to Sin”.....and we ALL do it ! Just because I actually Believe The Blood covers ALL of my Sins.....just because I Believe Jesus when He says That His Amazing Grace trumps my Sins, that does not give me the desire to Sin .....what you guys do not seem to understand is that just because I do not think that my hourly sins ( your thought- life counts also ) are-going to get me cast into Hell If I forget to confess them immediately or forget to express Repentance from them before I die, that does DOES NOT imply that I am Foolish enough to think “ we can Sin and get away with it!” Just because YOUR Carnality will not let you allow you to envision a scenario whereby God sets you totally Free and you Don ‘t take that Freedom as a “ License to Sin” ,doesn’t mean that “ everybody” has this Flaw....
Now that I am Forever Saved Man Of Faith , Who is a New Creation in Christ Jesus, who has a New Heart complete with New Desires, Sin has the same appeal as me as a Drano Enema, or sticking my hand in a fire.....I feel bad just by accidentally stepping on a worm....lol
All the preoccupation with sin shows a lack of trust to the One who took care of Sin 2000 years ago.....How about showing some Faith in Jesus and becoming a Tad more “ SON” Conscience as opposed to being so “SIN” Conscience ?
What you guys absolutely will NEVER understand is this......The same, EXACT second I discovered I could sin and not be damned for it because it finally HIT ME—- Jesus actually DID Die for ALL of my Sins—- That was the same Second I did not WANT to Sin anymore......God’s Will had become my Own Will. Ironic isn’t it ? All of my Life I wanted to “get my way” and nowThat it comes to pass , “my way” is the same as God's Way...... Thanks be to God's Mercy, I have been given the ultimate key to Victory in this Evil World ..... I have discovered the Freedom Of True Christianity and all I want to do with that “ Freedom” is be Christ’s Slave....... Christianity sure is “crazy” in some ways , isn’t it ? Don’t feel too bad if you fail to understand a lot of this stuff ...... many things about God and His Ways must be “ Spiritually Discerned” and most, if not ALL of the critics of Hyper-Grace lack that “ Spirit”......Some things are almost impossible to explain to others.....especially if they lack “ ears to hear” .....some things just gotta be lived out...... God bless....

Let me ask you a yes or no question. Do you believe in the teaching of Hyper-Grace?