Temporal Salvation?

[Jethro Bodine]

Agree with you here! I believe most will never realize the importance of using those who spent more time and labor than most in the Word of God (Bible commentators); a quite significant disadvantage, which will not be realized until later.

I think this is the exact problem......relying on Commentaries instead of being your own student of the Bible and sharing your reading experiences with fellow believers who are also reading and studying the Bible for themselves.

I've learned the most by learning the way the Bible says we are to meet and learn and fellowship together. It's kept me from having a closed, narrow, dogmatic view of scripture.

 

[JLB]

I actually don't want to compare it to the army, cause it is plants we are speaking of. The plant can't withstand the elements and probably fell off a cliff or something.

Its people Jesus is speaking about.

The explanation of the parable is referring to people who fall away. Who desert Christ.


JLB

 

[jerry63935]

This is not even in debate.
Unbelievers will NOT inherit the kingdom.

Mark 9
23 Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.

24 And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.

would thomas fall into this category ? what about the dad help thou mine unbelief. unbelief used in some ways means a non believer--never saved . here in mark 9 the dad believed but his unbelief was lack of faith . does this qualify going to hell ?

has any one followed galatians 6:1

Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

3 For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.

4 But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.

5 For every man shall bear his own burden.

6 Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things.

in the Christian faith we kick our soldiers while they are down.
were so quick to judge in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

 

[jerry63935]

I think this is the exact problem......relying on Commentaries instead of being your own student of the Bible and sharing your reading experiences with fellow believers who are also reading and studying the Bible for themselves.

commentaires are just a reference / comment which is the very same thing being made in here. i use them as a reference. but they are not the word of God

 

[netchaplain]

I think this is the exact problem......relying on Commentaries instead of being your own student of the Bible and sharing your reading experiences with fellow believers who are also reading and studying the Bible for themselves.

I've learned the most by learning the way the Bible says we are to meet and learn and fellowship together. It's kept me from having a closed, narrow, dogmatic view of scripture.

I understand your reason for your choice here. I wish I could describe the benefit of having a godly tutor! First I was hesitant (35 yrs ago) to compare with them because I wanted to more stable in what I've come to understand. Then I eventually realized the significance of comparing what I understood with the understanding of others, and it was then I finally discovered the greatest comparison is with those who've spent the most time in Word study (Theologians).

I realized that it was easier and seemed safer to remain mostly in what I understand, and realized it was because of what I understood wasn't much, even after 25 years of my 45 year Christian walk; but I couldn't see this blind spot until after I started regularly comparing with Bible commentators. I was handicapped by "leaning to my own understanding" (Pro 3:5); and I believe God gave us a community of godly theologians for this purpose, because time is always short for us in this life. All godly Bible student's understanding being potentially equal, it stands to reason that he who spends the most time and prayer in Spirit-guided Bible study will produce the most success in understanding it! God's rewards lack not in godly service!

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

This is all wonderful. But if you make all this mean you can willfully live in sin to avoid being self righteous you're making a very serious error. One that will cost you an eternity.

So don't tell us what we already know about God's grace. Talk about this part of God's grace that you say we can't see that says purposely living in sin when you can't do right is you resting in God's grace because it's you not trying to earn your own salvation.

No disrespect intended, but Am “I” The only one that has trouble understanding your sentences? I don’t know it’s a lack of punctuation or an abundance of run-on sentences, but I can’t decipher a lot of your stuff.....I am guilty of these things also....it’s been a long time since I sat in an English class......can you please simplify your sentences.....I am a dotard and need all the help that I can get.....thanks....

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

The Spirit-filled, saved Galatians fell away from faith in Christ:

"Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? 3Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?" - Galatians 3:2-3

"10You are observing special days and months and seasons and years! 11I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you." - Galatians 4:10-11

"2Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all.
4You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace." - Galatians 5:2,4

Please, put away the theology books and read the Bible for yourself. And don't let any predetermined doctrinal construct keep you from seeing what the Bible actually says.

For the record .....and especially for those that refuse to educate themselves by actually reading a Bible.......Paul told his deceived crowd that he was confident that they would return to the Right Path. On the “ other hand”—- Those that spread their Leaven Of “ Faith in Jesus Was Essential , it just was not Adequate” to get the job of Salvation done? Paul said God would Judge these Gospel Perverters at a later time.....preaching a” FalseGospel”as these phony “ brethren” were doing has a severe Consequence That Paul pointed out earlier......that consequence is Eternal Damnation.....
There are several Gospel Perverts here at this site— they spread their Leaven Of Gospel additions every day—- they add Commandment -Keeping and Lucky RepentanceTo The “ Good News” Of “ Christ Paid it ALL”—— all you are required to do is Believe it.False Additions to Paul’s Gospel are everywhere and they ALL share the same “Identity Marker . They all sound like this——- “ Jesus Saves—- B U T !” RUN! Don’t Walk whenever you hear that!
God bless...

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Mark 9
23 Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.

24 And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.

would thomas fall into this category ? what about the dad help thou mine unbelief. unbelief used in some ways means a non believer--never saved . here in mark 9 the dad believed but his unbelief was lack of faith . does this qualify going to hell ?

No.
Wondering if Jesus will answer a prayer for you or not is not even close to wondering if Jesus is really the Messiah, or not. If he was in unbelief about Jesus himself he would not be asking him for the faith to have his son healed.

has any one followed galatians 6:1

Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

3 For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.

4 But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.

5 For every man shall bear his own burden.

6 Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things.

The fault here is not unbelief, but rather the besetting sin that has overtaken the brother or sister.

John talks about not even praying for the person who is in unrepentant willful unbelief (the sin for which there is no forgiveness):

" 16If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death, you should pray and God will give them life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that you should pray about that. 17All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death." - 1 John 5:16-17

in the Christian faith we kick our soldiers while they are down.
were so quick to judge in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

In the church there is a time when we are to kick the derelict soldier out of the army so his soul might be saved when Jesus comes back:

"5hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, a b so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord.

6Your boasting is not good. Don’t you know that a little yeast leavens the whole batch of dough? 7Get rid of the old yeast, so that you may be a new unleavened batch—as you really are. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. 8Therefore let us keep the Festival, not with the old bread leavened with malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

9I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister c but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.

12What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.” - 1 Corinthians 5:5-12

Notice the boasting' in vs. 6. What do you suppose that means?
Perhaps it's the boasting by the church that this sinning fellow is entitled to do what he's doing and that's why they did nothing about it. See the next chapter, 1 Corinthians 6:12.
Sounds like Freegrace theology. BB quoted that very verse to defend his Freegrace doctrine.

 

[jerry63935]

There is a sin that leads to death.

God will take you out if not careful if the sin nature is getting strong

 

[jerry63935]

Notice the boasting' in vs. 6. What do you suppose that means?
Perhaps it's the boasting by the church that this sinning fellow is entitled to do what he's doing and that's why they did nothing about it. See the next chapter, 1 Corinthians 6:12.
Sounds like Freegrace theology. BB quoted that very verse to defend his Freegrace doctrine.

i cant help what it sounds like .it bible you focus so much on the sin you overlook the relationship

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

Who here is saying works earn salvation??????

The correct argument is you can not go back to unbelief and still be saved.

The Galatians That got tricked by the Judaizers and as a result “ fell from Grace” were later restored , thereby proving a Believer can fall into serious error and God will not forget to fulfill His Promise to “ Save to the Uttermost, ALL that Come to Him through His Son, Christ Jesus.When God “ goes out on a limb” and makes a Promise that clearly puts the “ ONUS” for Salvation on HIS Shoulders, He does it with “ eyes wide-open”
God knew all along that Believers would slip into sin.He knew they would try to take advantage of His Grace.He knew there would be times of weakness where His Children would deny that they even “ knew” Him. God fully understands that even though our Spirits are willing....our Flesh is “ weak”. He understands the Herculean Task we poor humans face every day , having to Battle against the World...the Flesh ...and the DEVIL....Thank God that no matter how Rank the Sin, no matter how Terrible the Sinner is....if that Sinner has at least ONE TIME, been Convicted Of Sin by the Holy Spirit ( Nobody comes to God lest the Spirit Draw Him) ....TURNED to God for Forgiveness ( Repentance) and put their COMPLETE TRUST in Jesus to Save them ( FAITH in Christ , Plus Nothing ) they are in the Body Of Christ and they are UNTOUCHABLE ( Nothing can take them from my Grasp)
Every Denizen Of Hell today is there for ONE REASON—— UNBELIEF——- a LIFETIME completely Devoid Of it .....Anybody who experienced True Belief in Jesus ? Even for One Measley Second?The Faith to grasp onto “Anything” from God is Purely a gift from The Holy Spirit .....The “Gifts of God” are WITHOUT RECALL and if God “opens your Heart” to the Gospel as He did for Lydia ( the seller of purple) AND Peter.....He ain’t gonna Open It Just to turn around and Shut it....He can’t ..... it would make God a Liar ...
The Bible says that God is “the Author AND the Finisher Of our Faith” and I just so happen to Believe that.....
If it is True that a Believer can become an UNbeliever and become Damned , it would take all the Promises Of God concerning Salvation and Grace and turn them into Promises Of Probation and Performance. You may as well be a Muslim....

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

w does saying works are the obligatory sign and outcome of genuine faith make you a legalist?

Using the word “ obligatory “ makes you a Legalist

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

The is no such thing as the age of Law.

You are the first person that I have EVER heard say that Nonsense.....No Law Age?......it has been estimated that 3 Billion pitiful, innocent sheep were Slaughtered when The Temple Of God was open for business —- mainly so that the Requirements Of The Law Age could be carried out...Tell all of those poor sheep that there was no “ Age Of Law”.......You are very,lucky you did not have to live in that Age......you live in a magnificent Age Of Grace presently whether you choose to believe it or not

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

This “ could “ be referring to the BIG one time Confession of Sin where the Holy Spirit delivers you FINALLY from the Fool’s Paradise Where you Are falsely convinced that YOU are not the Sinner That God is talking about in the Bible ——THAT Sinner That needs Salvation is that Murdering Rapist out there in the Penitentiary....Me? I’m Good Enough.....I’m doing the Best that I Can....
If you have been blessed by a night of sheer terror where your eyes have been opened to your TRUE condition before your Holy God , seeing with eyes that have had the scales removed,seeing that you are NOTHING but a Wretched Sinner who is headed for Hell like a speeding bullet and the Hell you racing For is Well Deserved!
At this point one should be reduced to saying only Two Things—- pretty much the things that all of those that “meet God “ say——- “ woe is me, I am UNCLEAN” and then,”Lord, have Mercy On me , a Sinner....”
The night of my “Awakening” was so Powerful, it split my Life in Two! One day I was a Blind Fool , Thinking That , despite my many faults , I was “ good enough” to get into Heaven.....I was trying to do the best I could do, after all !
The-next day, my eyes and ears having been opened by that scary visitation from the Holy Spirit ( That “ Conviction” thingy we have all heard about ) I have never been blinded by Satan again. I was Born a Sinner ....I will die a sinner......and if it were not for Two Things and these Two Things Only—- - I would still be as Lost as I always was— The “ Two Things” That Saved me are “ Christ’s Blood and My Faith”
Has anybody else out there in the audience had this “ Woe is Me” experience? ...Sometimes I think it’s absence might result in a man becoming a mere “Religionist “ as opposed to being a “man of Faith” True Christian .....am I alone in my experience?

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

Freegrace condones open, willful, purposeful sinning by saying that you trying to stop it in your own flesh is you sinning and trying to earn your own salvation and not resting in Christ. What a joke.

Indeed ! This would be the MOTHER of All jokes If it were True! Fortunately for me ,it’s all lies ....How One man could get so much Wrong astonishes me.....I am not going to explain myself again ......I don’t give a Rat’s Patootie what you think of me or my Doctrine Of “ Nothing But The Blood” For Salvation....One Of my fellow “ Hell Bound “ Teacher friends just taught about this the other day....Us Believers in Salvation by Paul’s Gospel Of Grace Plus Nothing try to explain Trusting instead of Trying or how we can Never lose our Salvation because of the Finished Work of the Cross and how we are saved by What we Believe , NOT how we Behave ....
My buddy says that he has come to the conclusion that some of God’s Truths must be discerned “Spiritually” and many who criticize what they can’t understand , simply Lack God's Spirit. That may be a little Harsh, but it sure would explain a lot .....

 

[Jethro Bodine]

....Paul told his deceived crowd that he was confident that they would return to the Right Path.

"11I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you." - Galatians 4:11

"10I am confident in the Lord that you will take no other view." - Galatians 5:10

When you have two seemingly contradictory pieces of evidence that can't be true at the same time you see which one can still be true despite the other one also being true. In this case it can be true that Paul thinks he's wasted his time on the Galatians and still be confident at the same time that they will come around, but he can't say for sure the Galatians will definitely come around, and be afraid they won't at the same time.

Paul's confidence can't imply absolute surety that they will come around because that would make him a liar about being fearful that he's wasted his time on them. But Paul being fearful that he's wasted his time on them doesn't make him a liar about having confidence and hope that they will come around. That's what love does. It always hopes:

"7It (love) always protects, always trusts, always hopes..." - 1 Corinthians 13:7

If the church would just put away it's personal biases and desires and use this logic when dealing with seemingly contradictory passages they'd see there really are no contradictions in scripture. Or at least far fewer of them. That logic is what took the duplicity out of this subject of OSAS for me. Along with being honest about what the scriptures plainly say.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I understand your reason for your choice here. I wish I could describe the benefit of having a godly tutor! First I was hesitant (35 yrs ago) to compare with them because I wanted to more stable in what I've come to understand. Then I eventually realized the significance of comparing what I understood with the understanding of others, and it was then I finally discovered the greatest comparison is with those who've spent the most time in Word study (Theologians).

I realized that it was easier and seemed safer to remain mostly in what I understand, and realized it was because of what I understood wasn't much, even after 25 years of my 45 year Christian walk; but I couldn't see this blind spot until after I started regularly comparing with Bible commentators. I was handicapped by "leaning to my own understanding" (Pro 3:5); and I believe God gave us a community of godly theologians for this purpose, because time is always short for us in this life. All godly Bible student's understanding being potentially equal, it stands to reason that he who spends the most time and prayer in Spirit-guided Bible study will produce the most success in understanding it! God's rewards lack not in godly service!

You're making a very big mistake.
Theologians are not above being checked against the scriptures as even Paul himself was:

"Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true." - Acts 17:11

Theologians are human and are subject to biases and desires that twist what they see, and I've seen too many instances of them ignoring context and ignoring other scripture to blindly accept what they say.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Those that spread their Leaven Of “ Faith in Jesus Was Essential , it just was not Adequate” to get the job of Salvation done...

Who's doing this?

Nobody's saying faith is not adequate by itself. We're saying the faith that is adequate all by itself won't be alone. If it is, then you don't have the faith that is adequate all by itself. Understand?

Even Luther said this.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Paul said God would Judge these Gospel Perverters at a later time.....preaching a” FalseGospel”as these phony “ brethren” were doing has a severe Consequence That Paul pointed out earlier......that consequence is Eternal Damnation.....

Only if they were never saved to begin with, right?
Otherwise they can do, and say, and believe whatever they want after salvation and they won't be damned for spreading a false gospel.
It's important that you remember what your own doctrine says.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Using the word “ obligatory “ makes you a Legalist

Then saved, sanctified, believing Paul was a legalist:

"12Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it." - Romans 8:12

Works are obligatory in salvation like getting wet is obligatory in going swimming. Understand?

If you're not wet then you're not in the pool that makes you wet.
Likewise, if you don't have works then you're not in the salvation that makes you work.
This is the argument you need to address.
Stop talking about the argument that works makes you saved.
No one is making that argument here!