Temporal Salvation?

[Jethro Bodine]

i cant help what it sounds like .it bible you focus so much on the sin you overlook the relationship

When you focus on the relationship the sin comes into the light so it can be dealt with.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

...The “Gifts of God” are WITHOUT RECALL

I guess you didn't understand what I showed you about you using Romans 11:29 out of context.
It's about Israel not being able to lose the promises, not one and the same person not being able to lose the promises.

and if God “opens your Heart” to the Gospel as He did for Lydia ( the seller of purple) AND Peter.....He ain’t gonna Open It Just to turn around and Shut it....He can’t ..... it would make God a Liar ...

That doesn't make God a liar because he said continuing to believe is the condition for continued salvation. That's the part Freegrace doctrine ignores.

"2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you." - 1 Corinthians 15:2

So, according to this verse, am I saved if I don't hold firmly to the word preached to me?
Freegrace says, 'yes'.
The verse says, 'no'.
Simple words for a simple people.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Indeed ! This would be the MOTHER of All jokes If it were True! Fortunately for me ,it’s all lies ....How One man could get so much Wrong astonishes me.....I am not going to explain myself again ......I don’t give a Rat’s Patootie what you think of me or my Doctrine Of “ Nothing But The Blood” For Salvation....One Of my fellow “ Hell Bound “ Teacher friends just taught about this the other day....Us Believers in Salvation by Paul’s Gospel Of Grace Plus Nothing try to explain Trusting instead of Trying or how we can Never lose our Salvation because of the Finished Work of the Cross and how we are saved by What we Believe , NOT how we Behave ....
My buddy says that he has come to the conclusion that some of God’s Truths must be discerned “Spiritually” and many who criticize what they can’t understand , simply Lack God's Spirit. That may be a little Harsh, but it sure would explain a lot .....

How you behave doesn't make you saved.
How you behave shows if you're saved.
You need to get the argument straight.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

If it is True that a Believer can become an UNbeliever and become Damned , it would take all the Promises Of God concerning Salvation and Grace and turn them into Promises Of Probation and Performance. You may as well be a Muslim....

You're saying that if I have to continue to believe in Christ to stay saved that's a works gospel.
Show me in the Bible where the requirement to believe in Christ constitutes a works gospel of 'Probation and Performance'.

I see Paul contrasting believing in Christ with that of the works gospel (Romans 4:5).

 

[JLB]

You are the first person that I have EVER heard say that Nonsense.....No Law Age?......it has been estimated that 3 Billion pitiful, innocent sheep were Slaughtered when The Temple Of God was open for business —- mainly so that the Requirements Of The Law Age could be carried out...Tell all of those poor sheep that there was no “ Age Of Law”.......You are very,lucky you did not have to live in that Age......you live in a magnificent Age Of Grace presently whether you choose to believe it or not

There was definitely a time when the law of Moses was added to the covenant. There were many different animals sacrificed during that time

Jesus came to fulfill the law.

There is coming a time very soon when animals will be sacrificed once again in Jerusalem.

What I’m saying is there is no such thing as the “age” of Law.



JLB

 

[jerry63935]

When you focus on the relationship the sin comes into the light so it can be dealt with.

 

[JLB]

When you focus on the relationship the sin comes into the light so it can be dealt with.

Well said brother.


But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. 1 John 1:7



JLB

 

[netchaplain]

You're making a very big mistake.
Theologians are not above being checked against the scriptures as even Paul himself was:

Every person, regardless of their learning, knowledge and understanding of God's Word is fallible in some degree due to the continued presence and work of "the old man." There will always be that sin-tainted spot in our understanding, thus nothing we do apart from God (which is quite a bit) can be perfect. To think the understanding of a layman (giving both are equally intelligent) in the Word of God has as much or more understanding of a theologian is merely to misunderstand the two terms. How we study and understand the scriptures determines if we are a Paul or a Timothy to one another.

"Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true." - Acts 17:11
"Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true." - Acts 17:11

The fact that the Berean Jews had to confirm what Paul was teaching was because their understanding like most at that time who were not writers of the Word wasn't the same as Paul's concerning the Word of God (OT and what the Apostles were teaching at that time).

It's my opinion that there's a lack of being properly taught the rudiments of Scripture (esp. the growth doctrines in the Pauline Epistles), and is also why commentators seem confusing, misunderstanding them and often the writers of the Word. Our understanding just needs to be more mature (Heb 6:1). With everyone reborn there is only a single issue that remains. It's not salvation because there is nothing in it from which to grow, it's fully applied. It's our walk, in learning to appropriate and manifest all that we already are in the Lord Jesus (Mat 10:25; 1Jo 3:3; 1Jo 4:17), and all that we already have (2Pe 1:3).

Just need to reread the NT more often, because it's where the majority of Christian growth in the faith is supplied!

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

r, 1 Corinthians 6:12.
Sounds like Freegrace theology. BB quoted that very verse to defend his Freegrace doctrine.

Close, but no cigar.....I think that I would use a verse like, “By GRACE you are SAVED —- through FAITH” to defend what I Believe about Grace ( there’s a whole bunch more )
I rarely pull out the Verse that proclaims “ ALL things are Lawful” To me , it’s the “ Nuclear Bomb” That DESTROYS Legalism......

 

[JLB]

Every person, regardless of their learning, knowledge and understanding of God's Word is fallible in some degree due to the continued presence and work of "the old man." There will always be that sin-tainted spot in our understanding, thus nothing we do apart from God (which is quite a bit) can be perfect. To think the understanding of a layman (giving both are equally intelligent) in the Word of God has as much or more understanding of a theologian is merely to misunderstand the two terms. How we study and understand the scriptures determines if we are a Paul or a Timothy to one another.


The fact that the Berean Jews had to confirm what Paul was teaching was because their understanding like most at that time who were not writers of the Word wasn't the same as Paul's concerning the Word of God (OT and what the Apostles were teaching at that time).

It's my opinion that there's a lack of being properly taught the rudiments of Scripture (esp. the growth doctrines in the Pauline Epistles), and is also why commentators seem confusing, misunderstanding them and often the writers of the Word. Our understanding just needs to be more mature (Heb 6:1). With everyone reborn there is only a single issue that remains. It's not salvation because there is nothing in it from which to grow, it's fully applied. It's our walk, in learning to appropriate and manifest all that we already are in the Lord Jesus (Mat 10:25; 1Jo 3:3; 1Jo 4:17), and all that we already have (2Pe 1:3).

Just need to reread the NT more often, because it's where the majority of Christian growth in the faith is supplied!

Each born again Christian has been given all things that pertain to life (eternal life) and godliness.

• as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness,

Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
2 Peter 1:2-4


We have the ability to cleanse ourself from filthiness, so that we may be a vessel of honor, rather than remaining a vessel of dishonor. This is our work to accomplish by the Spirit. Each of us must take responsibility for our actions and do the things, NOT JUST READ THE THINGS, that are written in God’s word.

• if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master

Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.”
But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor. Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work. Flee also youthful lusts; but pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart. 2 Timothy 2:19-22


Most people go to Church and never hear of such a thing. Many Christians are waiting for “God to fix them” apart from their active participation in this process.


Their are people right here on this Forum who are promoting the idea that any of this “active participation“ of being led by the Spirit to cleanse ourself or even confess our sins to God, is the work of the flesh; That it’s a pharisacial self righteous works driven gospel, so it’s not wonder people are cautious about engaging in this all important pursuit of righteousness, of holiness, of learning by the Spirit to be set apart.

• Flee also youthful lusts; but pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. Romans 8:12-14

• but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. (obtain eternal life).

Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life. Galatians 6:7-8

• but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.

Granted these things are a process, so all the more important to teach these things to new Christians, admonishing them to begin to understand that we ourselves must take responsibility for our actions and rely on the Holy Spirit to led us and guide us into these all important truths.


What I mostly see here on this Forum and elsewhere is people flat out denying these truths, even attacking me for promoting them to this community, saying I‘m teaching a false Gospel of works. Make no mistake, we are all supposed to be speaking and promoting the same things and having the same mind;

The mind of Christ.




JLB

 

[LovethroughDove]

That doesn't make God a liar because he said continuing to believe is the condition for continued salvation. That's the part Freegrace doctrine ignores.

"2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you." - 1 Corinthians 15:2

So, according to this verse, am I saved if I don't hold firmly to the word preached to me?
Freegrace says, 'yes'.
The verse says, 'no'.
Simple words for a simple people.

I'm gonna scream cause I have to bring up the parable of the sower again.

First break that verse down. By this gospel you are saved☑ What kind of people are in danger of not holding firm in that parable? You are missing the part where some people are really saved!

 

[Prycejosh1987]

The most understandable and encouraging attribute concerning salvation is that of its permanency, after all, it is called “eternal salvation” (Heb 5:9). What part of salvation is temporary, seeing that one of the meanings of redemption is that of being saved from “eternal damnation” (Mar 3:29). Is it a sensible truism that one can be eternally saved and then not eternally saved? Thus being temporarily saved from “everlasting punishment” (Mat 25:46) is clearly a concept of an oxymoron?

I think that people are saved when they come to God, it is possible to lose salvation, and become unsaved.

 

[LovethroughDove]

Most people go to Church and never hear of such a thing. Many Christians are waiting for “God to fix them” apart from their active participation in this process.


Their are people right here on this Forum who are promoting the idea that any of this “active participation“ of being led by the Spirit to cleanse ourself or even confess our sins to God, is the work of the flesh; That it’s a pharisacial self righteous works driven gospel, so it’s not wonder people are cautious about engaging in this all important pursuit of righteousness, of holiness, of learning by the Spirit to be set apart.

I agree, but then again.....they probably haven't gotten to the part where they have been given the Spirit. People who like how they live life and "everything happens to me" a victim mentality and people who really think they are okay.......these people probably aren't looking for God anyways.

People who really are looking for God and care about truth will find it! The truth, not an individuals truth but the absolute truth. If none of us were on here, God will still call people out of the world unto himself. He did me. My doctrine comes from no-one but him. All these different doctrines you all talk about, I really have no clue. I just know I grew up Catholic and what God has shown me through his Word is not what I grew up with (parts, but I was really clueless)

 

[for_his_glory]

Using the word “ obligatory “ makes you a Legalist

Is it not our obligation to be obedient to God's commands and statures and to walk and be led of the Holy Spirit that we crucify the things of the flesh, as how would that make any of us legalistic?

There are five requirements to Salvation
1. Confession - Acts 2:21; Romans 10:9, 10
2. Repentance - Mark 1:14, 15
3. Faith - John 3:14-18
4. Regeneration - John 3:3-8
5. Holy Scripture - 2 Timothy 3:15


It is those who fall away that call themselves a Christian, but only have a carnal understanding giving lip service to the Lord. They have never been Spiritually born again, indwelled and sealed by the Holy Spirit as there is no salvation found in them as they have not Christ found in them who guides us in the development and maturing of our faith as Christ Jesus is our faith in whom we believe in.

Romans 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
Romans 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Romans 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
Romans 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

 

[JLB]

I agree, but then again.....they probably haven't gotten to the part where they have been given the Spirit. People who like how they live life and "everything happens to me" a victim mentality and people who really think they are okay.......these people probably aren't looking for God anyways.

People who really are looking for God and care about truth will find it! The truth, not an individuals truth but the absolute truth. If none of us were on here, God will still call people out of the world unto himself. He did me. My doctrine comes from no-one but him. All these different doctrines you all talk about, I really have no clue. I just know I grew up Catholic and what God has shown me through his Word is not what I grew up with (parts, but I was really clueless)

My doctrine comes from no-one but him.

This post would be the “poster child” of your doctrine not being from Him.

I actually don't want to compare it to the army, cause it is plants we are speaking of. The plant can't withstand the elements and probably fell off a cliff or something.

just sayin


JLB

 

[LovethroughDove]

This post would be the “poster child” of your doctrine not being from Him.





just sayin


JLB

I meant no-one but him = The Word/Spirit (Edit) and Flesh Jesus I'm confused too with why you would say that I'm not from Him?

 

[LovethroughDove]

JLB - I'll just have to have a wrongful judgment made about me.

 

[for_his_glory]

You are the first person that I have EVER heard say that Nonsense.....No Law Age?......it has been estimated that 3 Billion pitiful, innocent sheep were Slaughtered when The Temple Of God was open for business —- mainly so that the Requirements Of The Law Age could be carried out...Tell all of those poor sheep that there was no “ Age Of Law”.......You are very,lucky you did not have to live in that Age......you live in a magnificent Age Of Grace presently whether you choose to believe it or not

Giving assurance to unrepentant sinners that they are eternally secure is nothing more than the false heresies of Hyper-Grace teachings which you are peddling throughout this thread.

I agree with JLB that there is no such thing as the "age of law" as the Mosaic laws are very much alive until all are fulfilled.

Romans 10:1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. 2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. 5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

Jesus came to fulfill the righteousness of the law as we no longer live by the letter of the law, but now by faith in Christ to all who will believe.

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Jesus was made the fulfillment of Gods righteousness of the law as He is now our righteousness through faith as we are made righteous through the blood of Christ who has redeemed us from the curse of the law. Notice in vs. 18 that not all the law has been fulfilled yet as we are still under the moral laws Jesus gave to His Church in Matthew 18:15-20; 1 Corinthians Chapters 6-10 and James Chapters 4 and 5. All the law will be fulfilled when Christ returns and we are with Him forever.

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

How you behave doesn't make you saved.
How you behave shows if you're saved.
You need to get the argument straight.

How about The Saved man from Paul’s early Church at Corinth who committed Incest with his own Mother ? Do you believe that his behavior “ showed” everybody that he was Saved? Getting Drunk at the Lord’s Table? Is that how we show by our Behavior, that we are Saved?
You need to “Rightly Divide” and “ study to show yourself approved.....to teach correctly so you will not have to stand ashamed....”
Did Jimmy Swaggert’s “ Behavior’ show that “ HE” was Saved?
A Christian is any person that has “ Christ’s Spirit”, i.e. The Holy Spirit Indwelling Them and that “ Spirit” will “ NEVER leave or FORSAKE them” ....Oh, if that were the end of things! Unfortunately, it’s just the Beginning.....Once a person is Truly Saved, a War begins—- The New Creation vs. The Old Adamic Nature. It is Impossible for the New Man to Sin and just as well , the Old Man desires to do Nothing “ but” Sin.....
At any given moment, because God Did not create Robots, we have the Freedom to Listen to and obey whichever Nature we choose to......when we choose to give into the Old Man and follow his evil inclinations, a Christian can exhibit Sinful Behavior That is on par with anything the World can conjure up and sadly it can be on display for the whole World to witness and Mock ...( think Swaggert and Jim Bakker ) God will Chastise His Foolish, Errant Children ( anybody who thinks Swaggert and Bakker did not spend a LOT of time in “God’s Woodshed” is stupid.....I had no use for either of these Clowns, but if they were Believers in Jesus, their Salvation was never at issue )
The Trajectory for the Man Of Faith and his Behavior should be an upward one, but within that life of Transformation that changes us ( by the Power Of God) there can be some Terrible downward abberations that would make even Redd Foxx Blush....
If we INSIST on going by some type of “ outward behavior “ proof as to whether a man is Saved or not —— it may not always be possible —- only God can see the Heart,,after all.... But if one was Forced to try to ascertain if a man was a True Believer or not, the Bible has One Way to do it.....a True Christian will show “ a Love for the Brethern”.....
I know some are disappointed to hear that .....they would prefer to hear “A True Christian is one that never sins or “ a True Christian Loves Jesus and Proves it by keeping the Law”..... Sorry , that stuff ain’t in there.....once again, it’s “Loving the Brethern”.....

 

[for_his_glory]

This “ could “ be referring to the BIG one time Confession of Sin where the Holy Spirit delivers you FINALLY from the Fool’s Paradise Where you Are falsely convinced that YOU are not the Sinner That God is talking about in the Bible ——THAT Sinner That needs Salvation is that Murdering Rapist out there in the Penitentiary....Me? I’m Good Enough.....I’m doing the Best that I Can....
If you have been blessed by a night of sheer terror where your eyes have been opened to your TRUE condition before your Holy God , seeing with eyes that have had the scales removed,seeing that you are NOTHING but a Wretched Sinner who is headed for Hell like a speeding bullet and the Hell you racing For is Well Deserved!
At this point one should be reduced to saying only Two Things—- pretty much the things that all of those that “meet God “ say——- “ woe is me, I am UNCLEAN” and then,”Lord, have Mercy On me , a Sinner....”
The night of my “Awakening” was so Powerful, it split my Life in Two! One day I was a Blind Fool , Thinking That , despite my many faults , I was “ good enough” to get into Heaven.....I was trying to do the best I could do, after all !
The-next day, my eyes and ears having been opened by that scary visitation from the Holy Spirit ( That “ Conviction” thingy we have all heard about ) I have never been blinded by Satan again. I was Born a Sinner ....I will die a sinner......and if it were not for Two Things and these Two Things Only—- - I would still be as Lost as I always was— The “ Two Things” That Saved me are “ Christ’s Blood and My Faith”
Has anybody else out there in the audience had this “ Woe is Me” experience? ...Sometimes I think it’s absence might result in a man becoming a mere “Religionist “ as opposed to being a “man of Faith” True Christian .....am I alone in my experience?

Giving assurance to unrepentant sinners that they are eternally secure is nothing more than the heresies of Hyper-Grace teachings which you are peddling throughout these forums as these teachings come against what has already been written in the word of God. You need to come out from these Universalism teachings and seek that which is given by the Holy Spirit in all truths.

I agree that there is no such thing as the "age of law" as the Mosaic laws are very much alive until all are fulfilled.

Romans 10:1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. 2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. 5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

Jesus came to fulfill the righteousness of the law as we no longer live by the letter of the law, but now by faith in Christ to all who will believe.

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Jesus was made the fulfillment of Gods righteousness of the law as He is now our righteousness through faith as we are made righteous through the blood of Christ who has redeemed us from the curse of the law. Notice in vs. 18 that not all the law has been fulfilled yet as we are still under the moral laws Jesus gave to His Church in Matthew 18:15-20; 1 Corinthians Chapters 6-10 and James Chapters 4 and 5. All the law will be fulfilled when Christ returns and we are with Him forever.