Temporal Salvation?

[jerry63935]

• lest they should believe and be saved.

• who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

nice try but does not say no longer saved.

believe for a while

never had it

 

[JLB]

nice try but does not say no longer saved. never had it

What more must a person do to be saved, other than believe?


Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:12-13

• lest they should believe and be saved.

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16



JLB

 

[netchaplain]

That may certainly be the case in the scenario you mentioned.

However, Jesus teaches something else.


When a person is being persecuted because they are a believer, they can give in to the temptation to relieve their sufferIng, ie; stop the persecution, by turning away from the Lord.

In the following scripture the context is referring to Jews who turn to Christ, who are being persecuted because they are believers, from unbelieving Jews who are trying to force them to turn away from Christ, by turning back to Judaism, a religion that denies Jesus Christ as Messiah and Lord.


Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:12-13

• lest they should believe and be saved.

Believe, present tense is the condition required for being saved.

• who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

These who believe for a while, then no longer believe, did so while being persecuted because they were believers, Christians, those who believe Jesus is Lord; the promised Messiah.


They at one point did in fact believe, meeting the requirement Jesus said would cause them to be saved, and then they returned to unbelieving.

• Believe = Saved
• Believe for a while = Saved for a while

That may certainly be the case in the scenario you mentioned.

However, Jesus teaches something else.


When a person is being persecuted because they are a believer, they can give in to the temptation to relieve their sufferIng, ie; stop the persecution, by turning away from the Lord.

In the following scripture the context is referring to Jews who turn to Christ, who are being persecuted because they are believers, from unbelieving Jews who are trying to force them to turn away from Christ, by turning back to Judaism, a religion that denies Jesus Christ as Messiah and Lord.


Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:12-13

• lest they should believe and be saved.

Believe, present tense is the condition required for being saved.

• who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

These who believe for a while, then no longer believe, did so while being persecuted because they were believers, Christians, those who believe Jesus is Lord; the promised Messiah.


They at one point did in fact believe, meeting the requirement Jesus said would cause them to be saved, and then they returned to unbelieving.

• Believe = Saved
• Believe for a while = Saved for a while

I can’t make any sense from one saying they truly believe and then say they truly do not believe. Since a temporary faith makes no sense, I choose to accept the view of some Bible commentators, that the sense in the phrase “for a while believe” is “appeared to believe” (Luk 8:13; which also applies to Simon Magus Act 8:13 – interesting having same chapter and verse). This is to maintain agreement and avoid conflict-of-Scripture concerning the greater mass supporting permanence, than the lessor mass appearing to support temporality.

 

[JLB]

I can’t make any sense from one saying they truly believe and then say they truly do not believe. Since a temporary faith makes no sense, I choose to accept the view of some Bible commentators, that the sense in the phrase “for a while believe” is “appeared to believe” (Luk 8:13; which also applies to Simon Magus Act 8:13 – interesting having same chapter and verse). This is to maintain agreement and avoid conflict-of-Scripture concerning the greater mass supporting permanence, than the lessor mass appearing to support temporality.

Brother, we don’t need other people deciding for us what Jesus was teaching, and there certainly isn’t a “conflict of scripture”.

Those who believed for a while were being persecuted because they were followers of Christ;
ie believers, Christians.

The context being taught in that cultural setting was those who were persecuting these Christians were the same group of people that murdered Jesus Christ. Jews who followed Judaism, a religion that rejects Jesus as God’s Son, the chosen Messiah.

Jews like Paul would persecute and kill followers of Jesus to get them to turn back to Judaism, which to do required they renouncing of Jesus as a false prophet and a deceiver.

People were “tempted“ to turn away from Christ, to save their physical life rather than become a martyr for Christ.

This theme is taught by the Lord throughout the New Testament.

Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.
Revelation 2:10

This principle needs to be taught and understood as we see the great tribulation approaching.


The entire book of Hebrews is about who Jesus is and the consequences of departing from Christ and being lost, not being able to brought back to repentance.


JLB

 

[netchaplain]

Brother, we don’t need other people deciding for us what Jesus was teaching, and there certainly isn’t a “conflict of scripture”.

Those who believed for a while were being persecuted because they were followers of Christ;
ie believers, Christians.

The context being taught in that cultural setting was those who were persecuting these Christians were the same group of people that murdered Jesus Christ. Jews who followed Judaism, a religion that rejects Jesus as God’s Son, the chosen Messiah.

Jews like Paul would persecute and kill followers of Jesus to get them to turn back to Judaism, which to do required they renouncing of Jesus as a false prophet and a deceiver.

People were “tempted“ to turn away from Christ, to save their physical life rather than become a martyr for Christ.

This theme is taught by the Lord throughout the New Testament.

Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.
Revelation 2:10

This principle needs to be taught and understood as we see the great tribulation approaching.


The entire book of Hebrews is about who Jesus is and the consequences of departing from Christ and being lost, not being able to brought back to repentance.


JLB

To me, those who deny Christ before men show no faith, and is why He denies them before God (Mat 10:33). It's understandable and okay why you believe the way you believe (which is very common), because of the way it is written.

 

[JLB]

To me, those who deny Christ before men show no faith, and is why He denies them before God (Mat 10:33). It's understandable and okay why you believe the way you believe (which is very common), because of the way it is written.

Do believe a born again Christian who denies Jesus Christ because they are being persecuted and threatened with death from Islam extremists if they don’t not confess Allah as their lord is still saved?



JLB

 

[jerry63935]

Do believe a born again Christian who denies Jesus Christ because they are being persecuted and threatened with death from Islam extremists if they don’t not confess Allah as their lord is still saved?



JLB

do you know of anyone who has done this? anything is possible but men were burnt at the stake just for translating the Bible . the apostle paul was killed for the cause of Christ in hebrews i believe it is .it tells us men wrapped in animal sins turned out in the wilderness . your putting a lot of what ifs out there . i believe God will take care of us if that ever takes place

 

[jerry63935]

Brother, we don’t need other people deciding for us what Jesus was teaching, and there certainly isn’t a “conflict of scripture”.

my 2 cents its no different than when we put our comments yours is osnas i have a believers Bible commentary that holds to osas . i use a commentary along the way . not as much as i use to .but i use it as a reference .if i agree with it fine if not i throw it away

 

[JLB]

my 2 cents its no different than when we put our comments yours is osnas i have a believers Bible commentary that holds to osas . i use a commentary along the way . not as much as i use to .but i use it as a reference .if i agree with it fine if not i throw it away

I don’t promote osnas or osas.

Both are man made doctrine.

I promote the New Testament; the doctrine of Christ.


JLB

 

[JLB]

my 2 cents its no different than when we put our comments yours is osnas i have a believers Bible commentary that holds to osas . i use a commentary along the way . not as much as i use to .but i use it as a reference .if i agree with it fine if not i throw it away

What more must a person do to be saved, other than believe?


Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:12-13

• lest they should believe and be saved.

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16



JLB

 

[jerry63935]

What more must a person do to be saved, other than believe?


Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:12-13

• lest they should believe and be saved.

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16



JLB

this has been a recording lol i just hit replay have a good night

 

[JLB]

this has been a recording lol i just hit replay have a good night

Ok. Let me know when your ready to continue our discussion.

 

[JLB]

do you know of anyone who has done this? anything is possible but men were burnt at the stake just for translating the Bible . the apostle paul was killed for the cause of Christ in hebrews i believe it is .it tells us men wrapped in animal sins turned out in the wilderness . your putting a lot of what ifs out there . i believe God will take care of us if that ever takes place

I believe God will give us the grace to die a martyrs death if it comes to that.

Which is why we should hold fast to the word by which we were saved, and be faithful unto death, so that we will receive the crown of life.

Now by all means Jerry, if this is not what you believe, if this is not what your personal study of God’s word has led you to conclude, then by all means feel free to renounce Jesus Christ as Lord and turn to Allah as your lord, or take the mark of the beast and worship him as your lord, if you believe you will still be saved.


Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.
Revelation 2:10



Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”
Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
Revelation 14:9-12



JLB

 

[jerry63935]

Ok. Let me know when your ready to continue our discussion.

the only way it continues is drop the pet doctrines false teaching etc you been using

 

[jerry63935]

I promote the New Testament; the doctrine of Christ.

which is?

 

[JLB]

the only way it continues is drop the pet doctrines false teaching etc you been using

Its a simple question Jerry.

If you expect people to want to discuss the things you feel are important then at some point, you will need to answer their questions.


What more must a person do to be saved, other than believe?


Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:12-13

• lest they should believe and be saved.

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16



JLB

 

[JLB]

which is?

The doctrine of Christ. The scriptures.

That’s why I post the scriptures, for people to read and study.


“But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say? Whoever comes to Me, and hears My sayings and does them, I will show you whom he is like: He is like a man building a house, who dug deep and laid the foundation on the rock. And when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently against that house, and could not shake it, for it was founded on the rock. But he who heard and did nothing is like a man who built a house on the earth without a foundation, against which the stream beat vehemently; and immediately it fell. And the ruin of that house was great.” Luke 6:46-49


Why would anyone promote a doctrine that is disobedient to Christ; a doctrine that leads to lives being ruined.


Makes no sense, Jerry.



JLB

 

[JLB]

the only way it continues is drop the pet doctrines false teaching etc you been using

I will never drop the doctrine of Christ, Jerry.


If you want to teach a doctrine that promotes disobedience to Christ, then that is between you and the Lord Jesus.


He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” John 3:36




JLB

 

[jerry63935]

But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say?

exactly and this cuts us ALL not just the backslider . every scripture you posted i can counter a different way.not necessarily be use in the wrong way. i keep pointing out to you INTERPRETATION the body of Christ has many members and each person believes a little bit different. a southern Gospel group the collingsworth family are wesley methodist . nothing like the UMC . you only see one side of the coin your side

 

[jerry63935]

If you want to teach a doctrine that promotes disobedience to Christ, then that is between you and the Lord Jesus.

have you seen me post that? no you haven't you have tunnel vision. even the true blue southern baptist missionary independent baptist who teach osas . does not promote disobedience to Christ or should i say the ones i have heard