Temporal Salvation?

[jerry63935]

Its a simple question Jerry.

If you expect people to want to discuss the things you feel are important then at some point, you will need to answer their questions.


What more must a person do to be saved, other than believe?


Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:12-13

• lest they should believe and be saved.

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16



JLB

echo jlb bring something new to the table

 

[netchaplain]

Do believe a born again Christian who denies Jesus Christ because they are being persecuted and threatened with death from Islam extremists if they don’t not confess Allah as their lord is still saved?



JLB

Great question, because it shows me I wasn't clear and should have explained its intention. To deny Christ, in my opinion, cannot be done by mere words, any more than merely professing words can save you. Though Peter's denial was in words, this cannot change (nothing can, because of the new nature or "seed" - 1Jo 3:9) his faith and deeds in Christ. I believe the Lord's sense in Matthew 10:23, 24 concerns our works, i.e. lifestyle (godly or ungodly, there are no others); e.g. Tit 1:16. It's our manner of living that manifests or glorifies God externally to one another (Jhn 15:8).

 

[netchaplain]

Excuse please, copy.

 

[JLB]

exactly and this cuts us ALL not just the backslider . every scripture you posted i can counter a different way.

Why would want to counter scripture?

Isnt that another way of saying you can twist the scripture to say whatever you want it to mean?


I just don’t believe you mean you are wanting to counter the scripture.

I think you mean something else.


Tell me what you believe this scripture means —


And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him, Hebrews 5:9


Here’s what I believe this scripture means...


Jesus is the source of eternal salvation for all who obey Him.


JLB

 

[JLB]

have you seen me post that? no you haven't you have tunnel vision. even the true blue southern baptist missionary independent baptist who teach osas . does not promote disobedience to Christ or should i say the ones i have heard

I saw that you voted “No” to the poll which asks —

Is obeying the Lord and His commandments required for salvation?

What other conclusion would you expect me to come to by your choice?


By this answer, you believe born again Christians do not need to obey Jesus Christ as Lord, nor His commandments in order to be given eternal salvation.


This very attitude and concept is why the Church is weak and divided.

This is called the lie, in the scripture.

It’s the lie that Satan used to deceive Eve.


Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die.
Genesis 3:4


Go ahead and disobey God, you won’t die.


Paul warns us of this very thing —


And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
2 Thessalonians 2:11-12

• that they should believe the lie,

• that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

JLB

 

[JLB]

echo jlb bring something new to the table

Jerry avoiding a simple question is not how to have honest dialog.


I know this can be a difficult subject for some, however, just address each post as honest as you can and use scripture.


I take the time to explain my position and use scripture.


You claimed the people in verse 13 “never had it” which means you believe the people that Jesus was using as an example never “believed” and therefore they were never saved.

I’m asking you to clarify what you mean, because plainly the verse says they in fact believed.


Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:12-13


Jesus stated the condition that He required to be saved.

• lest they should believe and be saved.

If you believe those in the second group never had salvation, then explain why you believe this and explain what more is required other than to believe.

• who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

This verse plainly says these did in fact believe, however they believed for a while then fell away from Christ under the strain of persecution.


So Im asking you to help me understand how it is you concluded that these in this second group never believed when Jesus said they did believe, and then later fell away.


Is there something more a person must do in order to be saved?





JLB

 

[JLB]

To deny Christ, in my opinion, cannot be done by mere words, any more than merely professing words can save you.

Confessing words is exactly how we are saved.

Its how we believe and therefore obey the Gospel of Jesus Christ.


For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:10

• with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

JLB

 

[netchaplain]

Confessing words is exactly how we are saved.

Its how we believe and therefore obey the Gospel of Jesus Christ.


For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:10

• with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

JLB

I think the point of what we confess is in reference to what's truly in our heart. This answers to why those who can't speak confess the Lord in their way. It's common knowledge that many make a confession of the Lord that do not truly mean, or they would remain with Him.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I think the point of what we confess is in reference to what's truly in our heart. This answers to why those who can't speak confess the Lord in their way. It's common knowledge that many make a confession of the Lord that do not truly mean, or they would remain with Him.

I can’t make any sense from one saying they truly believe and then say they truly do not believe.

I think the reason you can't make any sense of someone saying they truly believe and then them saying they truly do not believe is because you don't realize that believing in Christ means trusting in Christ.

You can truly trust in something and then not trust in it. That's what happened to the truly saved (but immature) Galatians. They were drawn away from their trust in Christ for justification and back to trusting in the works of the law for justification. The Corinthians, too, were drawn away from their pure devotion to the Lord. The Hebrew church was also departing from their trust in Christ.

According to the Parable of the Sower, what kind of soil the word is planted in determines how easily or possible it is for that soil to cast out the word growing in it. The soil that allows the word to be firmly and deeply rooted in it is the soil that will be more likely to retain the word of the gospel and persevere with fruitfulness to the very end and be saved when Jesus comes back. The immature believer with the poorer quality soil is the one who is more likely to abandon their trust in Christ and have only a temporal possession of the salvation and ministry of Christ that never ends.

 

[jerry63935]

Jerry avoiding a simple question is not how to have honest dialog.

i have answered this before you already know the answer

 

[jerry63935]

Confessing words is exactly how we are saved.

so as a lost man all i got do is confess jesus as Lord and then live how i want?

 

[jerry63935]

ya know actually i am tired of all this there can be no point made what so ever . if some think there salvation is temporary. then buy you a bible that takes out eternal life

 

[JLB]

I think the point of what we confess is in reference to what's truly in our heart.

Yes.

If we believe Jesus is Lord because He is risen from the dead, and His Spirit enables us to confess Him as Lord, it is this confession of faith that activates our salvation.


Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit. 1 Corinthians 12:3


again



And since we have the same spirit of faith, according to what is written, “I believed and therefore I spoke,” we also believe and therefore speak. 2 Corinthians 4:13


JLB

 

[JLB]

i have answered this before you already know the answer

Sorry Jerry.

You haven’t answered this before.


When a person believes they are saved; ie regenerated, born again.


This is what Jesus taught.

It’s the condition by which a person is saved.


So I’m asking you, what more must a person do to be saved, besides believe?

• lest they should believe and be saved.

Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12

ya know actually i am tired of all this there can be no point made what so ever . if some think there salvation is temporary. then buy you a bible that takes out eternal life

When we read the words of Jesus Christ and His Apostles, we see that that He desires His people to obey Him, because His way of life is love. Loving God and loving His children.


His way is also the way of righteousness, truth and peace.


These are the attributes that He desires His people to reflect in their lives.


Why would anyone not want to submit to such a righteous and loving King?


“If you love Me, keep My commandments. John 14:15


Why is this such a difficult concept to understand?


Why would any ChristIan want to promote disobedience and rebellion against the Lord?


It just doesn’t make sense?



JLB

 

[jerry63935]

we see that that He desires His people to obey Him,

do you obey him %100 of the time? i asked you this one other time you never answered .yes we are to obey him do we go to hell if we fail to?
O give thanks unto the LORD; for he is good: for his mercy endures forever. Psalm 118:29

are you a legalist who thinks if you do wrong one time you have to plead and beg your way in to his Grace . ?

Why would any ChristIan want to promote disobedience and rebellion against the Lord?


It just doesn’t make sense?

your right you dont make any sense none notta at all for i dont know how many times i have said this.... i have seen NO BODY PROMOTE disobedience and rebellion against the Lord ! STOP THE BULL

Why would anyone not want to submit to such a righteous and loving King?

once again i have yet to see one single post that is saying this.. you are adding to what you think is being said.. start being a moderator instead of imagining what someone is saying . read this real closely if we abide in him then we will want to obey him

 

[netchaplain]

I think the reason you can't make any sense of someone saying they truly believe and then them saying they truly do not believe is because you don't realize that believing in Christ means trusting in Christ.

Hi, and appreciate your input! Faith in God isn't the same as trusting in anything or anyone, but God. The faith that is given by the Spirit never fails, as Christ prays for us that it doesn't (Luk 22:32); and Him being the Author and Finisher of it "will perform it (good work in you, i.e. faith) until the day of Jesus Christ" (Phl 1:6).

You can truly trust in something and then not trust in it

True, if you eventually believe it is untrustworthy.

That's what happened to the truly saved (but immature) Galatians. They were drawn away from their trust in Christ for justification and back to trusting in the works of the law for justification. The Corinthians, too, were drawn away from their pure devotion to the Lord. The Hebrew church was also departing from their trust in Christ.

Need passages for replies to these, thanks.

According to the Parable of the Sower, what kind of soil the word is planted in determines how easily or possible it is for that soil to cast out the word growing in it.

If one hears the Word and becomes unconcerned, the Word known is not sown unto the maturity of faith, thus having no beginning. Temporary faith is no faith, same as works absent of the Spirit's fruit is not works and nonexistent (dead).

The soil that allows the word to be firmly and deeply rooted in it is the soil that will be more likely to retain the word of the gospel and persevere with fruitfulness to the very end and be saved when Jesus comes back. The immature believer with the poorer quality soil is the one who is more likely to abandon their trust in Christ and have only a temporal possession of the salvation and ministry of Christ that never ends.

To me, the parables of the sower show that the seed of faith cannot grow but in only one manner, by receiving the conditions and nutrients, or the seed (if it lives to produce at all) brings forth barren branches that produce no fruit of faith. Faith is the most important, as it is what initially establishes union with God.

 

[JLB]

do you obey him %100 of the time? i asked you this one other time you never answered .yes we are to obey him do we go to hell if we fail to?

If we confess our sin, he is faithful to forgive us.

I know this to be true because I have failed Him many times, yet when I come to Him He is gracious and forgiving.

I have learned from my many mistakes, and learned not to keep repeating them.


I can tell you the last time I told a lie, it was years ago, and I was extremely grieved and haven’t lied since.


Jerry, I won’t ask you if you sin or not because that’s between you and the Lord. What you do or don’t do isn’t going to change the truth of God’s word.



JLB

 

[JLB]

are you a legalist who thinks if you do wrong one time you have to plead and beg your way in to his Grace . ?

Not at all.

I know from experience how gracious the Lord is.

Those who know Him, know this to be true.


Now getting back to my question.


What more do you believe a person must do to be saved, besides believe?






JLB

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

What more do you believe a person must do to be saved, besides believe?

Please excuse my intrusion here, but Man! This question here? I could almost swear that I have heard it before, somewhere ........Upon reflection , I think this is the SAME question that the Philippian Jailer asked of Paul and Silas..... “ Sirs, what must I do to be Saved ?” What was the response? “ Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be Saved”
Did we miss something in there? Believe and Repent Of all of your sins before you die? Believe and obey all of the Commands ? Believe and Follow ? Believe and find more to do to because “ even the demons “believe”....... Hogwash !
If you want to “ Follow” Jesus—- do what Jesus Said and “ Follow Paul”.......Paul says in order to be Saved, you must “Believe on the Lord, Jesus Christ”—- Plus NOTHING! We are talking about Salvation— the FREE Gift, remember? Given to the “ ungodly”. Given to those who do NOT work for it , lest God Be in debt to you—- something that will NEVER happen! Turn to God....get Saved......get the Holy Spirit in you , and all of the “ following”, all of the “repenting” and all the “ Command Keeping” That needs to be done will be done as a gift of the God that you turned to in order to get Saved to begin with.....Trust God and He will do what only He CAN do. He will Transform you from the inside out, forming you into the Image Of His Son.....Quit TRYING to be Saved and improved.......start TRUSTING to be Saved and improved .....Gid Bless...

 

[JLB]

What more do you believe a person must do to be saved, besides believe?

Please excuse my intrusion here, but Man! This question here? I could almost swear that I have heard it before, somewhere ........Upon reflection , I think this is the SAME question that the Philippian Jailer asked of Paul and Silas..... “ Sirs, what must I do to be Saved ?” What was the response? “ Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be Saved”
Did we miss something in there? Believe and Repent Of all of your sins before you die? Believe and obey all of the Commands ? Believe and Follow ? Believe and find more to do to because “ even the demons “believe”....... Hogwash !
If you want to “ Follow” Jesus—- do what Jesus Said and “ Follow Paul”.......Paul says in order to be Saved, you must “Believe on the Lord, Jesus Christ”—- Plus NOTHING! We are talking about Salvation— the FREE Gift, remember? Given to the “ ungodly”. Given to those who do NOT work for it , lest God Be in debt to you—- something that will NEVER happen! Turn to God....get Saved......get the Holy Spirit in you , and all of the “ following”, all of the “repenting” and all the “ Command Keeping” That needs to be done will be done as a gift of the God that you turned to in order to get Saved to begin with.....Trust God and He will do what only He CAN do. He will Transform you from the inside out, forming you into the Image Of His Son.....Quit TRYING to be Saved and improved.......start TRUSTING to be Saved and improved .....Gid Bless...

The Lord taught us that the condition to be saved is believe.


Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12

• lest they should believe and be saved.

This principle is taught throughout the New Testament.


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16


and of course the scripture you yourself quoted —


“Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
Acts 16:31


So it seems we agree again.


Thank you for your answer.


I just don’t know why Jerry refused to answer such a simple question.



JLB