Temporal Salvation?

[Rollo Tamasi]

You who say you follow Paul, this is what Paul said to do with the person who continues in sin and says, "it's OK to do so because God's grace has already covered us by the blood of the Lamb and we do not need to confess our sins" (that is, he follows Freegrace doctrine):

"1It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that even pagans do not tolerate: A man is sleeping with his father’s wife. 2And you are proud! Shouldn’t you rather have gone into mourning and have put out of your fellowship the man who has been doing this? 3For my part, even though I am not physically present, I am with you in spirit. As one who is present with you in this way, I have already passed judgment in the name of our Lord Jesus on the one who has been doing this. 4So when you are assembled and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, a b so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord." - 1 Corinthians 5:1-5

Notice "so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord" in verse 5.
Many people in the church take false comfort in this part believing this means you don't lose your salvation for purposely sinning but will only be chastised by God, even put to death, but will still be saved when Christ returns.

Well, that's not what it says.
The verb 'may be' in "may be saved on the day of the Lord" is a subjunctive verb.
That means the action of being saved MAY OR MAY NOT OCCUR depending on circumstances.
That's why it says "may be saved".
The chastising that God puts the sinning 'believer' through is necessary so the person can be saved. But it's not a guarantee that he will be as many insist. It depends on if the chastisement is successful in crucifying the flesh of the purposely sinning person.

Now, BB, I'm guessing you're just going to ignore this and stick to what your teachers are telling you.
In fact, most of the whole church is ignoring these plain non-OSAS points in scripture and rationalizing sin.
We are in the great falling away of the church just before Jesus comes back.
Many are not enduring to the end and will not be saved.
Freegrace OSAS is the reason why.

As you yourself said:

Ooh, a subjunctive verb.
Imagine losing my salvation because no one ever explained to me what a subjunctive verb is.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

You seem to not understand that in the context (Rom 14:4) Paul is dealing with matters of opinions among Christians.

--so there is no OSAS found in the context since the text is dealing with Christians and not apostates.

--Christians cannot disagree over matters of doctrinal truth. Christian could disagree over what to eat but they cannot disagree over matters of doctrine as salvation, worship, marriage divorce and remarriage, etc, etc. (2 John 1:9-10)

Sounds like you never did read the whole chapter as I asked you to.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Sounds like you never did read the whole chapter as I asked you to.

I have read the entire book of Romans many times.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Ooh, a subjunctive verb.
Imagine losing my salvation because no one ever explained to me what a subjunctive verb is.

If the subjunctive mood is not a big deal, then why did the NIV replace the subjunctive mood in John 3:16 from "should" to the indicative mood "shall"? (Did the same thing with Jn 6:40 changing "may" to "shall")

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

If the subjunctive mood is not a big deal, then why did the NIV replace the subjunctive mood in John 3:16 from "should" to the indicative mood "shall"? (Did the same thing with Jn 6:40 changing "may" to "shall")

When you start talking subjunctive verbs and aorist moods, etc..., you are no longer speaking to the common man.
You are having a conversion with intellects which in the end proves nothing.
You'd be much better off standing out in the street yelling "Jesus saves".

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Romans 14:4; Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.

This verse has to be disturbing to a non-OSAS person.

Not in the least.
This is true for servants of God, not ex-servants of God.
He doesn't make anyone stand against their will.
He makes them stand if they want to stand.
The promises are for believers, not ex-believers.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Ooh, a subjunctive verb.
Imagine losing my salvation because no one ever explained to me what a subjunctive verb is.

It's right there in the passage, lol.

"5hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the Day of the Lord.b " - 1 Corinthians 5:5

OSAS ignores this completely to the point no one can see it now, even though it's right there under our eyeballs in plain print. OSAS does this with a lot of scripture. It teaches people to see scriptures so they don't really mean what they plainly say. That's why I don't believe OSAS doctrine.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

It's right there in the passage, lol.

"5hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the Day of the Lord.b " - 1 Corinthians 5:5

OSAS ignores this completely to the point no one can see it now, even though it's right there under our eyeballs in plain print. OSAS does this with a lot of scripture. It teaches people to see scriptures so they don't really mean what they plainly say. That's why I don't believe OSAS doctrine.

And is this your way of edifying the church?
Yikes!!!!!

 

[Jethro Bodine]

And is this your way of edifying the church?
Yikes!!!!!

I told you, love tells the truth.
The truth edifies those who love the truth.
It's abrasive and offensive to those who don't.
The man at Corinth will either love the hard truth presented him and repent and be saved, or he'll despise the truth and stay in his sin and be lost when Jesus returns. Scripture tells us he repented and the church received him back into the fellowship. He was told the truth that he had to repent in order to be saved when Jesus comes back. He will tell you about how the truth edifies when you see him in the kingdom.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I told you, love tells the truth.
The truth edifies those who love the truth.
It's abrasive and offensive to those who don't.
The man at Corinth will either love the hard truth presented him and repent and be saved, or he'll despise the truth and stay in his sin and be lost when Jesus returns. Scripture tells us he repented and the church received him back into the fellowship. He was told the truth that he had to repent in order to be saved when Jesus comes back. He will tell you about how the truth edifies when you see him in the kingdom.

Hard truth, that's you
Guess what?
Jesus loves you

 

[for_his_glory]

We can only “ Follow Jesus” so far......perhaps to the Water’s Edge.....what do we do when He starts to Wall on the Water ......If we find ourselves in the middle of an angry Mob that is trying to throw us over a cliff, do we just kinda “vanish into thin air” like Jesus did?
If we concentrate on Loving Others like both Paul and Jesus did...I think that should suffice...

We not only follow Jesus to the water edge, but by faith no matter the storms that will come, and they will come, we keep walking on the water by faith as the water is the living word of God that we trust in, John 4:4-26; 7:37-39; 12:44-50; Ephesians 5:26; 1 John 5:5-8; Jeremiah 17:13; Zechariah 14:8, 9; Rev 21:6-8; Ezekiel 47:22.

Look what happened to Peter when he got out of the ship and started towards Jesus walking on water and the wind became boisterous, he was afraid and began to sink. He cried out saying, "Lord save me". Immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt? It is those who are weak in faith not allowing their faith to grow that doubt Jesus when the storms hit and through fear they lose faith in Christ and walk away from God's salvation as they will not endure until the end when Christ returns, Matthew 14:25-32.

 

[for_his_glory]

Moses was a murderer.....of course, we all know that David was also....how did “they” get Saved? Faith Plus Nothing
James was writing to Born-Again,Saved “ Brethern” when he told them ( paraphrasing ) “It’s considered shameful to be in jail—- but not if you are in jail for being a Believer. Just don’t let me hear that you are in jail for Murder and the Like!
James seemed to allow for the possibility that a “ Brother” Christian could indeed , be capable of committing Murder! So now, what do with “that?”...... beats me....

Repentance, faith and obedience to God's commands are what gets us saved in the end. Faith Plus Noting is dead faith that produces no good works of the Lord that passes away if not built upon. Faith without works is dead, James 2:14-26.

Exodus 2-3
Moses messed up mainly by trying to do God's work the wrong way when he killed the Egyptian that was beating on a Hebrew. Moses thought if he murdered the Egyptian that Israel would see that he was their deliver and rally round him, but they didn't.

The conversation Moses had with God at the burning bush happened after he failed to deliver Israel his own way. He got angry at the Egyptian who was mistreating an Israelite and killed him, thinking this was the way to begin the deliverance of God's people. When Pharaoh heard of this killing he sought to have Moses killed, but Moses fled from the face of Pharaoh, and dwelt in the land of Midian.
After forty years living in the desert in Midian God appeared to him in a burning bush and called Moses back to Egypt and this time to do things God's way. Moses argued with God as he did not want to return back to Egypt and told God he had the wrong man, but God knew better as through Moses, God created a nation, but for the punishment of Moses wanting to do things his way he was not allowed to enter the promised land. Moses died on Mount Nebo in Jordan.

2 Samuel 12 God sends Nathan to rebuke David as even though God anointed him king over Israel, delivered him out of the hands of Saul and gave him the masters house and many wives, he satisfied
with all he had and ended up having another man killed so he could have his wife that David so desired to have.

It was by that sword used to kill Uriah that the God raised up evil against David taking away all his wives and David repented of all his evil ways confessing he sinned against God. God punished David as He struck the child that Uriah's wife bare unto David, and it was very sick and and after the child died David came into the house of the Lord and worshipped. God forgave all his evil ways and gave him and Bathsheba a son and he called his name Solomon.

 

[for_his_glory]

And I , just as Sincerely, do not believe that your “ take” on God’s Word is the correct one.So now what?
For me, if you Believe That Jesus Christ , having been Dead for three days and nights, walked out of that Tomb—- you are a Saved Person. Period. Romans ,chapter 10.....
Jesus said that if you would “acknowledge ME before men— I will Acknowledge YOU before My Father in Heaven”.....I Trust Jesus to carry out His Word.....that is what Faith is.....Newbies, alway Remember .....How does Jesus tell you to LIVE ? “ The Righteous ( Those made fit for Heaven) shall L I V E by Faith !! One finishes the Christian Walk the same way He Started it—— Faith in Jesus Plus Nothing to Save you....” Without ONE PLEA, except that His Blood was Shed for Me ! God bless....

Is this my take or is this the very word of God within all the scriptures I have been giving you. Please show me where what I have said does not line up with scripture as I am always opened for correction. It is you that believes in willful sin and that we do not need to be obedient to God's commands.

James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Spiritual rebirth, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit:
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Confessing our sins:
Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Romans 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

1 John 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
1 John 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1 John 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

 

[for_his_glory]

Any of the numerous times that Jesus spoke of the Chastisement of the Believer he is proving that Sin still exists in the Believer’s Life....Why does God say He Chastises His Children? Just for Kicks? Of course Not! He “chastises” His Children That listen to their “ Old Adamic Nature” and foolishly give in to a Temptation....
Why does the Disciple John implore Saved, Born Again Believers NOT to Sin, If Sin for the Believer has been Done Away with, as if the Christian was “above sin?” John even went so far as to inform us that Jesus was our “ Advocate” if we fell into sin ! It’s ALL self-explanatory .If sin has been “ conquered” in thexkives

Any time you post you refuse to use scripture and refute the scriptures you are given. No one, even if they are still babes in Christ are going to just take you word for everything you say. Anything taught outside of the scriptures only becomes speculations and man's theories.

Hyper-Grace, or as you call it Super Hyper-Grace is nothing more than a tool that Satan uses to place everyone under his deceitful feet as we all know he is the father of lies. Those who make their bed with him will all face certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

It is you that believes in willful sin and that we do not need to be obedient to God's commands.

If this is still your opinion after all the Posts that I have submitted,there is no sense in continuing this debate......for you, it is a waste of time .....for me, I am not surprised.....it is time to
“Shake the dust off my feet” and move on.I only post here for the benefit of Newbies ....I use all of those “Accusers Of The Brethren” as Spring Boards to get the Truth Of Paul’s Gospel Of Grace Plus Nothing out there for those with “ears to hear” . I sincerely desire that they learn how to REST in the Gospel —the Finished Work Of The Cross, lest God damn them for their “ Unbelief”.........Read Hebrews 3 and 4.....
What one does with the Gospel Of 1Cor 15 : 1-4 will determine you life here on Earth AND it is what God is going to JUDGE you by, Come Judgement Day.....Pray to your Father that He show you Mercy and allow you understand what it means to Rest in His Gospel.....If you are not” Resting”, you are “ Working”.....God won’t have it.....and your Eternity is at stake.....

 

[JLB]

Where is the edification telling everyone on this forum that they are going to hell unless they believe as you do?

He never said such a thing.

Why misrepresent him?


JLB

 

[JLB]

When you start talking subjunctive verbs and aorist moods, etc..., you are no longer speaking to the common man.
You are having a conversion with intellects which in the end proves nothing.
You'd be much better off standing out in the street yelling "Jesus saves".

Jesus saves. Amen.

Thank God.

Thank God Jesus forgave me, so many times as a backslider.

Thank God He kept loving me, when I didn’t even love myself.

Thank God He kept drawing me back to Himself, and gave me the grace to repent and return to Him, many times.


Most of all, thank God Jesus taught me how to stop backsliding, and remain faithful to Him.


Thank God we can be filled with His Spirit, and live a life worthy and pleasing to Him.

• that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; that you may walk worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing Him, being fruitful in every good work

For this reason we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to ask that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; that you may walk worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing Him, being fruitful in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God; strengthened with all might, according to His glorious power, for all patience and longsuffering with joy; giving thanks to the Father who has qualified us to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in the light. Colossians 1:9-12






JLB

 

[JLB]

If this is still your opinion after all the Posts that I have submitted,there is no sense in continuing this debate

This is most definitely our opinion BECAUSE we have read all your posts.




JLB

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

He never said such a thing.

Why misrepresent him?


JLB

In my opinion, this is how I interpretted it.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Jesus saves. Amen.

Thank God.

Thank God Jesus forgave me, so many times as a backslider.

Thank God He kept loving me, when I didn’t even love myself.

Thank God He kept drawing me back to Himself, and gave me the grace to repent and return to Him, many times.


Most of all, thank God Jesus taught me how to stop backsliding, and remain faithful to Him.


Thank God we can be filled with His Spirit, and live a life worthy and pleasing to Him.

• that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; that you may walk worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing Him, being fruitful in every good work

For this reason we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to ask that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; that you may walk worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing Him, being fruitful in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God; strengthened with all might, according to His glorious power, for all patience and longsuffering with joy; giving thanks to the Father who has qualified us to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in the light. Colossians 1:9-12






JLB

In my opinion, this post is all well and true.