Temporal Salvation?

[for_his_glory]

We’ll see....won’t we ? I and many others think that your Doctrines are “ Demonic” also.....You no more have a “ Lock” on the Truth than I do...... Those with “ ears to hear” understand what I am saying....I once heard a good teacher of the Word say that some things just have to be “ Spiritually Discerned “ and some people Lack that “ Spirit”....... He may have been on to something....

It's sad and also disturbing that you can not see what we are trying to teach you comes straight from the doctrines of Christ unlike your false doctrines of Hyper-grace, or as you call it "Super Hyper-Grace" being taught to you that has blinded you from the truth that is only found in the doctrines of Christ.

You need to put away the heretic teachings of Watchman Lee and his Recovery Bible as you already stated you believe in what he taught.

 

[for_his_glory]

He is right! The Word says so.. (I can find the scripture if you want) but as believers I believe it's good to confess and ask for forgiveness.
Remember life as Believers is a relationship!
Shalom!

Please find that scripture that says all our sins past, present and future are already forgivenen and that we do not need to confess our sins anymore.

 

[for_his_glory]

It's strange when you said "not fair" because I always thought about God as being fair. (Yet He is)
But I understand..
What I like the most of all them words is praise God!
...

We are all born with a sin nature and all have sinned and fallen short of God's glory, that's a fact. But, to those who are of Christ need to get up every morning and crucify this flesh and walk in the Spirit so we do not fulfill the lust of the flesh. No one has to sin like it's some kind of command to do so as it's a freewill choice to fall to the temptation to sin.

Even a Spiritually born again child of God will mess up at times as we are still mortal living in this fleshly body where the sin nature dwells. Grace does not give us a license to sin, but when we do we have an intercessor (Christ Jesus) before the Father who makes intercession for us and forgives our sin when we repent of them. There will always be a struggle between the flesh and the Spirit and sometimes the flesh will win the battle, but never the war.

Galatians 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Galatians 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

 

[for_his_glory]

When a sanctified believer willfully sins simply because they want to, and not because of weakness, deception, ignorance, or fear, they are trampling on the Son of God and their destiny, if they don't repent, is hell:

26If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,
27but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.
28Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
29How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? - Hebrews 10:26-29

Plain words for a plain people.
No complex, over-thought theologies are required to see this simple truth in scripture.
But they are required in order to not see this simple truth.
Freegrace doctrine says it doesn't mean what it says in order to rationalize living in sin.

Matthew 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

A true child of God will not serve sin, but only to serve the Lord as we walk in the Spirit of newness of life knowing and having the mind of Christ as we have been risen with Him through the regeneration, Romans Chapter 6; Colossians 3:1-4.

 

[LovethroughDove]

I true believer by having faith in Christ through the Spiritual regeneration, John 3:5-7, is not going to use the excuse that since we are under grace I can go about killing and raping others. If that is what you think then I am sorry for your soul on the day that Christ returns and final judgments are made for the quick and the dead. John 5:28, 29.

I think he is just making the statement that God's Grace could save the worst of the worst!

I personally don't think those kinds of people will want to come to Jesus.

 

[for_his_glory]

My point of view differs from yours.....all I am trying to do is offer the best argument for my side....What is being SAID is the important thing— NOT who says it! If I can type a post that is better than some of the links that Send here, I will type it......it just so happens that many times—MOST of the Time, actually —- these little YouTube snippets get the job done better than I can.
Those new to the Faith need to see that there are “ other” views out there , presented by Teachers that may be more God-Gifted than the man they listen to , mainly because their parents listened to So-and-So or ( what a coincidence! ) the Best Teacher Of The Word Just “ happens” to be within driving difference......

We do acknowledge your views, but yet disagree with them as they do not line up with the word of God. You have been giving the best side of your argument, but how can you argue against the truth of the doctrines of Christ for what He has already spoken. Views are like opinions as we all have them, but what it comes down to is the facts which are only found in the written word of God being plainly laid out before us in all truths.

 

[LovethroughDove]

Wait! What does this mean?

Acts 22:4 I persecuted the followers of this Way to their death, arresting both men and women and throwing them into prison

Does this mean Paul killed people or just arrested them?

 

[for_his_glory]

Christians in this life have the promise of eternal life (2 Jn 2:25). This promise is conditional upon the Christian remaining faithful, obedient to Christ. The righteous person has this promise but can lose it by becoming unfaithful. One either possesses this promise or not.

The idea that if one casts his faith aside falling into unbelief proves he 'never really was saved' has no Biblical basis. One can gain the promise of eternal life but also lose that promise. For one to 'lose' some thing implies he must have first possessed it.


From what you post, are you claiming there is no such thing as an apostate?

Strong's Greek: 646. ἀποστασία (apostasia) -- Apostasy, rebellion, defection, falling away

646 apostasía (from 868 /aphístēmi, "leave, depart," which is derived from 575 /apó, "away from" and 2476 /histémi, "stand") – properly, departure (implying desertion); apostasy – literally, "a leaving, from a previous standing."

What does the word 'fall' mean?

Heb 4:11 "Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief."
1 Cor 10:12 "Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall."

Thayer - fall:
to fall from a state of uprightness, i. e. to sin: opposed to ἑστάναι, 1 Corinthians 10:12; opposed to στήκειν, with a dative of the person whose interests suffer by the sinning (cf. Winer's Grammar, § 31, 1 k.), Romans 14:4; to fall into a state of wickedness, Revelation 18:3; Lachmann's stereotyped edition; Tr WH text (see πίνω).

A person 'always lost, never saved' cannot fall for he is already fallen. The word 'fall' as the word apostate carries the idea one's position has changed. One who was 'always lost never saved' position has remained the same.

I was only trying to make a point that according to Matthew 24:13 none of us are saved yet until Christ returns.
Of course there is such a thing as an apostate. I did not use the word apostate, but is definitely explained within what I said about falling away from faith in whom our faith is in Christ Jesus who is our faith by that of God's grace in who we believe in. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12 speaks about those who fall away as their faith is weak and will believe the doctrines of lies that man teaches.

 

[for_his_glory]

I think he is just making the statement that God's Grace could save the worst of the worst!

I personally don't think those kinds of people will want to come to Jesus.

Luke 5:32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

God's grace is for all, even the worst of the worst as He calls everyone to repentance, but @Blood Bought1953 seems to think after we are Spiritually born again we can continue in sin as it's OK to do so because God's grace has already covered us by the blood of the Lamb and we do not need to confess our sins.

 

[for_his_glory]

Wait! What does this mean?

Acts 22:4 I persecuted the followers of this Way to their death, arresting both men and women and throwing them into prison

Does this mean Paul killed people or just arrested them?

Paul persecuted Christians to death, but out of ignorance until his conversion while on the road to Damascus, Acts 22:1-21. Being a Jew he believed Christians, just like they accused Jesus, were blasphemers worthy of death. He was actully persecuting in the name of God.

1 Timothy 1:12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;
1 Timothy 1:13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.
1 Timothy 1:14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
1 Timothy 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

 

[JLB]

Wait! What does this mean?

Acts 22:4 I persecuted the followers of this Way to their death, arresting both men and women and throwing them into prison

Does this mean Paul killed people or just arrested them?

If he himself didn’t actually throw any stones he was certainly responsible for their deaths and persecution as he led people to persecute the Church.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

I was only trying to make a point that according to Matthew 24:13 none of us are saved yet until Christ returns.
Of course there is such a thing as an apostate. I did not use the word apostate, but is definitely explained within what I said about falling away from faith in whom our faith is in Christ Jesus who is our faith by that of God's grace in who we believe in. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12 speaks about those who fall away as their faith is weak and will believe the doctrines of lies that man teaches.

I agree that no Christian possess eternal life in this life but conditionally possesses the promise of eternal life and can lose that promise.

If OSAS were true, then there can be no such thing as an apostate, no such thing as falling.

 

[for_his_glory]

I agree that no Christian possess eternal life in this life but conditionally possesses the promise of eternal life and can lose that promise.

If OSAS were true, then there can be no such thing as an apostate, no such thing as falling.

I agree

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

I agree

Since there is such a thing as an apostate and falling, OSAS cannot be true, correct?

 

[for_his_glory]

Since there is such a thing as an apostate and falling, OSAS cannot be true, correct?

I already agreed with this.

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

It's sad and also disturbing that you can not see what we are trying to teach you comes straight from the doctrines of Christ unlike your false doctrines of Hyper-grace, or as you call it "Super Hyper-Grace" being taught to you that has blinded you from the truth that is only found in the doctrines of Christ.

You need to put away the heretic teachings of Watchman Lee and his Recovery Bible as you already stated you believe in what he taught.

I know absolutely NOTHING about Watchman Nee.....I have used one or two of his quotes that made good sense and I have heard that he was a great teacher......I have never read his stuff and The “Recovery Bible” That you mention? I never heard of I until you mentioned it.....
Part of “ the doctrine of Jesus” is for us to “ Follow Paul”......
Neglect Paul if you want...it’s your loss.

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

Luke 5:32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

God's grace is for all, even the worst of the worst as He calls everyone to repentance, but @Blood Bought1953 seems to think after we are Spiritually born again we can continue in sin as it's OK to do so because God's grace has already covered us by the blood of the Lamb and we do not need to confess our sins.

You pretty much got it!

 

[Jethro Bodine]

@Blood Bought 1953 seems to think after we are Spiritually born again we can continue in sin as it's OK to do so because God's grace has already covered us by the blood of the Lamb and we do not need to confess our sins.

You pretty much got it!

You who say you follow Paul, this is what Paul said to do with the person who continues in sin and says, "it's OK to do so because God's grace has already covered us by the blood of the Lamb and we do not need to confess our sins" (that is, he follows Freegrace doctrine):

"1It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that even pagans do not tolerate: A man is sleeping with his father’s wife. 2And you are proud! Shouldn’t you rather have gone into mourning and have put out of your fellowship the man who has been doing this? 3For my part, even though I am not physically present, I am with you in spirit. As one who is present with you in this way, I have already passed judgment in the name of our Lord Jesus on the one who has been doing this. 4So when you are assembled and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, a b so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord." - 1 Corinthians 5:1-5

Notice "so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord" in verse 5.
Many people in the church take false comfort in this part believing this means you don't lose your salvation for purposely sinning but will only be chastised by God, even put to death, but will still be saved when Christ returns.

Well, that's not what it says.
The verb 'may be' in "may be saved on the day of the Lord" is a subjunctive verb.
That means the action of being saved MAY OR MAY NOT OCCUR depending on circumstances.
That's why it says "may be saved".
The chastising that God puts the sinning 'believer' through is necessary so the person can be saved. But it's not a guarantee that he will be as many insist. It depends on if the chastisement is successful in crucifying the flesh of the purposely sinning person.

Now, BB, I'm guessing you're just going to ignore this and stick to what your teachers are telling you.
In fact, most of the whole church is ignoring these plain non-OSAS points in scripture and rationalizing sin.
We are in the great falling away of the church just before Jesus comes back.
Many are not enduring to the end and will not be saved.
Freegrace OSAS is the reason why.

As you yourself said:

Neglect Paul if you want...it’s your loss.

 

[JLB]

Part of “ the doctrine of Jesus” is for us to “ Follow Paul”......
Neglect Paul if you want...it’s your loss.

You have that backwards.

Jesus didn’t say to follow Paul.

Paul said to follow his example of following Christ.

Paul taught them to imitate him as he imitated or followed Christ.

Paul is saying that they should use his lifestyle as an example Of following Christ.


Imitate me, just as I also imitate Christ. 1 Corinthians 11:1

Follow my example, as I follow the example of Christ.
1 Corinthians 11:1 NIV



JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

I know absolutely NOTHING about Watchman Nee.....I have used one or two of his quotes that made good sense and I have heard that he was a great teacher......I have never read his stuff and The “Recovery Bible” That you mention? I never heard of I until you mentioned it.....
Part of “ the doctrine of Jesus” is for us to “ Follow Paul”......
Neglect Paul if you want...it’s your loss.

I only mention Witness Nee as you spoke of him as believing in what he taught mixed with other teachings of other religions of man. Would you use quotes of Satan even if they made good sense to you, as even Satan speaks a deceitful word through others seducing them to believe doctrines of lies.

No, we are not to follow Paul as his teachings are that of Christ in whom God gave Jesus to speak, John 12:49, 50. Paul was an Apostle called by God to preach the Gospel to the Gentiles. This is the problem today as many are Pastor followers who many Pastors have never been called of God to preach or have the anointing or the indwelling Holy Spirit to teach others as they appoint themselves. Those who are Pastor only followers believing everything that comes out of the pulpit, like I use to, will be seduced into believing lies if they have no truth found in them, Matthew 7:15; 24:11; 2 Corinthians 11:13-15; 1 John 4:1-6.