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Test The Spirits in Dreams Visions Abductions

Remember he has been used by God to bring deliverance and healing to many many people. He has seen that much of what we call deliverance (casting out devils) has advanced much in these last days because the enemy has become more and more sophisticated in his operation of deception and counterfeiting the Holy Spirit.

If you are referring to Alexander Pagani, thanks for sharing. I've never heard of him before, and he has a good spirit about him.

Just understand, I'm better at rightly dividing the word than any prophet I have ever met or read. That's not boasting or vaunting myself above them by any means, I'm simply saying that teaching the word accurately is what I do. It is my office, so I don't shy away from correcting even the prophets when necessary. The same applies to deliverance ministers I've read in the past.
 
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This operates on the assumption that God cannot and will not speak to the unsaved as well. Not something I subscribe to. God spoke to Pharaoh, God spoke to Nebuchadnezzar, and I believe He also spoke to Pilate's wife as well, knowing that nothing would stop the events from happening, but making sure that the blame lay squarely upon the Jewish leadership in order to genuinely fulfill prophecy.
Good point. We can't know, but its clear the unsaved are being manipulated by Satan, they are under his power. Dreams certainly would be in his tool box.
 
Good point. We can't know, but its clear the unsaved are being manipulated by Satan, they are under his power. Dreams certainly would be in his tool box.

Yes. And they are especially problematic among those given over to evil spirits in other areas of their lives.
 
Yes. Abundant references to the Gnostics doing so from NT times onward, both in Irenaeus and Justin Martyr. It's what they were quite famous for actually.
Their testimony is about a much later time. Context indicates these are TARES among the wheat:

Jude identified them when he points to those God saved, but afterward destroyed because they did not believe.
Same implication when he speaks of the angels, they were of God but then became ungodly with lewdness leaving their proper abode for lust.

4 For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord (1203 δεσπότης despotes) God and our Lord Jesus Christ.
5 But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.
6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; (Jude 1:4-6 NKJ)

They weren't "another group" in their midst. They were rebels against God claiming to be
Christian. The congregation knew whose these rebels were, "certain men" is all he needs to say to identify them.

They were "lawless", their Master (1203 δεσπότης despotes) was not God, their lawlessness proved God was not their Master nor Jesus Christ their King.

They remind me of the TARES who worked Christian like miracles Christ said would appear:

21 "Not everyone who says to Me,`Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 "Many will say to Me in that day,`Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'
23 "And then I will declare to them,`I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!' (Matt. 7:21-23 NKJ)


These secretly crept in because Satan sowed them in secret:

24 Another parable He put forth to them, saying: "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field;
25 "but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way.
26 "But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared.
27 "So the servants of the owner came and said to him,`Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?'
28 "He said to them,`An enemy has done this.' The servants said to him,`Do you want us then to go and gather them up?'
29 "But he said,`No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them.
30 `Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, "First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn."'"
...
36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him, saying, "Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field."
37 He answered and said to them: "He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man.
38 "The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one.
39 "The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels.
40 "Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age.
41 "The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness,
42 "and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. (Matt. 13:24-42 NKJ)

Another identifier, "false prophets among the people" were prophesied to come by the apostls:


17 But you, beloved, remember the words which were spoken before by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ:
18 how they told you that there would be mockers in the last time who would walk according to their own ungodly lusts.
19 These are sensual persons, who cause divisions, not having the Spirit. (Jude 1:17-19 NKJ)

:1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction.
2 And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed.
3 By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber. (2 Pet. 2:1-3 NKJ)

The deny Christ by their lawlessness, not by outright denial because Peter says "because of them" Christianity will be blasphemed. So they claim to be Christians.


They aren't Gnostics, just TARES among the Wheat doing what children of the devil always do, rebel against God's law.

Its possible Montanism sprang from them, or other heretical groups like them.

"Montanism, also known as the New Prophecy, was a Christian movement that emerged in the second century CE and was led by a man named Montanus. The movement was characterized by its emphasis on prophecy, ecstatic experiences, and the expectation of the imminent end of the world.

The orthodox Christian Church of the time did not accept Montanism as a legitimate expression of the faith and considered it to be a heresy. This was due in part to the fact that Montanus and his followers claimed to have new revelations from God that superseded the teachings of the apostles and the established doctrines of the Church.

In addition, the Montanist movement was characterized by a rejection of institutional authority and a belief in the direct communication of divine truth to individuals. This challenged the authority and hierarchical structure of the Church, which saw itself as the custodian and interpreter of Christian tradition.

The controversy surrounding Montanism continued for several centuries, and the movement was eventually suppressed and disappeared. Today, Montanism is generally considered a heretical movement, although some scholars have sought to re-evaluate its teachings and place it within the context of early Christian history.-ChatGPT"
 
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Their testimony is about a much later time.

No, Alfred. They consistently attributed the founding of Gnosticism to Simon the Magician, who was present amongst the church from the earliest days of the Acts account, and mentioned by name.
Its possible Montanism sprang from them, or other heretical groups like them.

I won't go round and round with you on it if you are determined to believe this, but you are making up a sect that has no proof of existence. Certainly Montanism did, but this is a common mistake I see within scholarship. They often fabricate supposed mythical "movements" that have no actual existence in history to go along with their interpretations of what a particular epistle was addressing.

If you can receive some advice, tie your interpretations more to actual history and heresies that actually existed and were flourishing during New Testament times, not those that can be supposed to have existed based on movements that sprang more than one hundred years later.

God bless, and never wild about forcing people to believe anything they don't want to, so I may just leave it at that.
- H
 
No, Alfred. They consistently attributed the founding of Gnosticism to Simon the Magician, who was present amongst the church from the earliest days of the Acts account, and mentioned by name.


I won't go round and round with you on it if you are determined to believe this, but you are making up a sect that has no proof of existence. Certainly Montanism did, but this is a common mistake I see within scholarship. They often fabricate supposed mythical "movements" that have no actual existence in history to go along with their interpretations of what a particular epistle was addressing.

If you can receive some advice, tie your interpretations more to actual history and heresies that actually existed and were flourishing during New Testament times, not those that can be supposed to have existed based on movements that sprang more than one hundred years later.

God bless, and never wild about forcing people to believe anything they don't want to, so I may just leave it at that.
- H
I didn't say they were Montanists; their percussors.

They were TARES sown by the Devil who denied Christ by their lawlessness. Not Gnostics. Jude made that clear when he cited the example of Israelites later destroyed because of their lawlessness. Also the angels.

A survey of New Testament shows the early church had a big problem with false prophecies and tongues babblers. The Corinthian church wanted for forbid tongues entirely. The Thessalonians began despising prophecy and want to end that.

39 Therefore, brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak with tongues.
40 Let all things be done decently and in order. (1 Cor. 14:39-40 NKJ)


19 Do not quench the Spirit.
20 Do not despise prophecies.
21 Test all things; hold fast what is good. (1 Thess. 5:19-21 NKJ)


Its a misconception the New Testament Church was all Charismatic. Only a small minority spoke in tongues in Corinth, the majority wanted to forbid them. A survey of the NT shows doctrine is what the church talked about. Whenever a sign happened, it was so rare it "made the news." By the end of the 1st century the signs and wonders were spoken of in the "past tense", as things that weren't happening then:

3 how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed to us by those who heard Him,
4 God also bearing witness both with signs and wonders, with various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit, according to His own will? (Heb. 2:3-4 NKJ)

That's why I'm a cessationist. I see the gift of special revelation ending in the 1st century. By then we had the 27 books of the New Testament.
 
Can you show from the scriptures where to find the gift og special revelation that ended in the 1st century?
Yes, I can but given the apostles believed Christ could come in the 1st century, they don't put it in that time frame by express statement:

8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away.
9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away. (1 Cor. 13:8-10 NKJ)

Adolescence (partial revelation) ends once Adulthood (competed revelation) arrives:

11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known. (1 Cor. 13:11-12 NKJ)

Scripture is complete revelation, nothing can be added to it:

18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;
19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. (Rev. 22:18-19 NKJ)


The only reason Paul felt the need to discuss the cessation of special revelation, was because it already was ceasing. Only a minority of people at Corinth spoke in tongues, the majority wanted to forbid them as too disruptive.
 
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I was fully aware of what you said, Alfred.

Read my post again as if I was paying attention to you, not like I wasn't.
I did. You suggested Simon Magnus was a Gnostic and cited Ireneaus etc as proof, but others in the early church didn't agree. I do know from our Bible text those "certain men" were TARES, Jude's example about God destroying unfaithful Israelites proves we aren't talking about an outside group invading the church. Angels falling into sin also proves that.

I just wanted that clear.
 
If you did then why did you respond with "I didn't say they were Montanists; their percussors" when my post clearly implied that I understood that already?
If I missed the subtle nuance of your "implication", I apologize. It seems obvious to me Montanists sprang from similar people.

The NT church clearly had problems with "pseudo charismata", there is no other reason for them to "despise prophecies" or want to "quench the Spirit." Or forbid tongues.

Before I became a Cessationist I would argue you "can't throw the baby out with the bath water ("pseudo charismata")", Paul didn't. That the church today is similar to the NT, there is true and false charismata.

I'm a Cessationist now, and believe most seen today is "of ourselves." Mostly harmless belief that some Christians find comforting.

But like in the 1st century, TARES would be doing supernatural things that aren't by God's Spirit. The Spirit of Christ never knew them:

22 "Many will say to Me in that day,`Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'
23 "And then I will declare to them,`I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!' (Matt. 7:22-23 NKJ)

There is a counterfeit Jesus and spirit that some "may well put up with"

4 For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted-- you may well put up with it! (2 Cor. 11:4 NKJ)
 
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8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away.
9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away. (1 Cor. 13:8-10 NKJ)

No mention of the gift of special revelation.


Do you believe that which is perfect has come?

What is perfect and when did it come?



JLB
 
No mention of the gift of special revelation.


Do you believe that which is perfect has come?

What is perfect and when did it come?



JLB
The partial revelation Tongues prophecy and knowledge is "special revelation".

No, the Perfect is complete revelation of God that comes with Christ's kingdom.

But it does not follow that means the special revelation tongues prophecy and knowledge (supernatural) must continue until Christ comes.

Paul didn't say it would. He said once Complete Revelation has arrived, partial revelation won't exist, for then we will know as we are known.

To illustrate. We all are eating ice cream cones. They are melting in the sun and soon will cease. That makes many sad, so I console them:

"When the Ice Cream Factory arrives, we'll have gallons of ice cream and ice cream cones will be done away, cease, vanish."

Years later, all the ice cream cones have melted or were eaten. The Factory hasn't arrived yet. I didn't promise partial portions of ice cream would continue until the Factory arrives.

I said the partial portions won't exist when Complete Portions are available.
 
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The partial revelation Tongues prophecy and knowledge is "special revelation".

Says who?

If we are discussing scripture then lets discuss the words of scripture, not made made words and terms.

Do you believe knowledge has ceased?


JLB
 
It wasn't subtle, and you did miss it, Lol. But apology accepted.

I'll see if I can't get to your posts tomorrow.

God bless, and have a nice morning,
- H
As I confessed, I'm a hermit in the desert, not aware of the latest happenings in the Church. To fix that I went to YOUTUBE, and there I heard prophets in the church universally prophesied Trump would win the election:


That didn't happen.

What is your opinion on that?
 
As I confessed, I'm a hermit in the desert, not aware of the latest happenings in the Church. To fix that I went to YOUTUBE, and there I heard prophets in the church universally prophesied Trump would win the election:


That didn't happen.

What is your opinion on that?

Most are superficial, and the few that aren't don't know how to interpret their own visions very well.

I prophesied the exact opposite.
 
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