That Wrongful Feeling

[netchaplain]

The more we learn of God’s goodness the more sensitive and aware we are made to the indwelling sinful nature. There may often or occasionally be a feeling of discomfort which seems to have no identity concerning its cause, yet there seems to be a noticeable uneasy sense within that tends to make us think that maybe we’ve neglected something or have done something unknowingly wrong.

This should take no place in our determination because there’s nothing we can do anyway that can address the forgiveness and acceptance which we already have in Christ; and equally important is the unchangeable surety we have of the Father’s forgiveness and acceptance.

Of course the origin of this and of all wrongfulness derives from the sinful nature, which often results in unidentified and uncomfortable awareness, similar to that of an identity-crisis. The believer needs not to do anything wrongful to result in the awareness of this uneasiness, and it’s encouraging to know that this is merely a God-given sensitivity (via the new nature and the Spirit) of the presence of the old nature, similar to that of not knowing you have a cancer and eventually becoming aware of it.

When a believer actually does wrongfully (which is not “willfully” Heb 10:26), the most blessed Spirit of God eventually brings this to his awareness, but solely to learn from it—and never intends anything accusative—for only the devil is the “accuser” (Rev 12:10).

The instructional means of enduring such situations is by waiting of the Lord, by “casting all your care on Him” (1 Pet 5:7) in knowing He has worked “all things together for good” (Rom 8:28)—to you!

 

[Winter Tapioca]

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

The verse says death is passed on. Not that sin nature is passed on to all men. Sin nature is the same as the Calvinist's T in Tulip. "T" otal depravity. (aka/ radical corruption or pervasive depravity) and is actually sourced back to Augustinian.

What with God's characteristics I personally think the idea of a "sin nature" doesn't speak well of Him that is creator of all that exists, is knower of all to be known, and yet invents this nature for us to inherit at birth when everything is predestined according to his will. Translating to, we're damned from the start. Being property of Satan first isn't my idea of omni-benevolence in action.
I reject the very notion of sin nature.

 

[JohnDB]

The more we learn of God’s goodness the more sensitive and aware we are made to the indwelling sinful nature. There may often or occasionally be a feeling of discomfort which seems to have no identity concerning its cause, yet there seems to be a noticeable uneasy sense within that tends to make us think that maybe we’ve neglected something or have done something unknowingly wrong.

This should take no place in our determination because there’s nothing we can do anyway that can address the forgiveness and acceptance which we already have in Christ; and equally important is the unchangeable surety we have of the Father’s forgiveness and acceptance.

Of course the origin of this and of all wrongfulness derives from the sinful nature, which often results in unidentified and uncomfortable awareness, similar to that of an identity-crisis. The believer needs not to do anything wrongful to result in the awareness of this uneasiness, and it’s encouraging to know that this is merely a God-given sensitivity (via the new nature and the Spirit) of the presence of the old nature, similar to that of not knowing you have a cancer and eventually becoming aware of it.

When a believer actually does wrongfully (which is not “willfully” Heb 10:26), the most blessed Spirit of God eventually brings this to his awareness, but solely to learn from it—and never intends anything accusative—for only the devil is the “accuser” (Rev 12:10).

The instructional means of enduring such situations is by waiting of the Lord, by “casting all your care on Him” (1 Pet 5:7) in knowing He has worked “all things together for good” (Rom 8:28)—to you!

Everyone has bad days. In the gospel of Luke there are four types of sin classified in three parables. This dissertation starts with the "Lost Sheep" and ends with "Prodigal Son".
BUT
The dissertation doesn't end there. It continues with the parable of "The Shrewd Manager", which explains that we can't fully remove all sin from ourselves to begin with. No one is capable of self righteousness...we need a Savior....

Meaning (as said elsewhere) my most righteous acts and gifts on my best days are as used menstrual products to God when compared to His righteousness.

Where a "righteous man" might wish to not offend his Maker...he is unable to do so of his own volition. He needs a Savior to actually do so. But his efforts are still judged by God as effort instead of as acts of Treason against the Kingdom.

 

[netchaplain]

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

The verse says death is passed on. Not that sin nature is passed on to all men.

HI WT and appreciate your sincere reply! I believe this and many other passages supports the perpetual inherent sin nature concept: "For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous (v 19).

What with God's characteristics I personally think the idea of a "sin nature" doesn't speak well of Him that is creator of all that exists, is knower of all to be known, and yet invents this nature for us to inherit at birth when everything is predestined according to his will. Translating to, we're damned from the start. Being property of Satan first isn't my idea of omni-benevolence in action.
I reject the very notion of sin nature.

To me the issue is not the sin nature but that God knew man would choose it and use this in His plan.

 

[netchaplain]

we can't fully remove all sin from ourselves to begin with. No one is capable of self righteousness...we need a Savior....

Hi JDB! Thanks for the reply and for your site labors. It's my understanding that passages which relate to removing sin means the removal of its guilt and dominion, not its presence and affects. The sin nature is as bad as it can be and is what I believe incurs the condemnation (hence Christ's expiation for the believer's sin), not the sinning, which merely manifests it.

God's blessings to your Family, and God be blessed!

 

[Winter Tapioca]

HI WT and appreciate your sincere reply! I believe this and many other passages supports the perpetual inherent sin nature concept: "For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous (v 19).

Would you say it is likely that verse is referring to The One? The Word made flesh?How else would many be made righteous?

To me the issue is not the sin nature but that God knew man would choose it and use this in His plan.

Building on that observation, if God foreknew man would choose to sin, that would mean God set into motion the tools for man to sin. Like installing the tree of knowledge in what we call paradise knowing the antithesis of righteousness would gain entry and seduce the naive newly created, without awareness of what it means , good and evil, and be tempted to eat of that tree's fruit.
What with all the suffering humanity endured after that, including the curse God afforded upon banishment of the first people from that paradise, what would that say as to the nature of God's plan?

 

[netchaplain]

Would you say it is likely that verse is referring to The One? The Word made flesh?How else would many be made righteous?

The reference is to Adam from verse 14.

Building on that observation, if God foreknew man would choose to sin, that would mean God set into motion the tools for man to sin.

Once we realize God foreknew everything they would do we can build from it. He knew they would partake of the Tree when He was commanding them to avoid it.

 

[Winter Tapioca]

The reference is to Adam from verse 14.

Yes. And Jesus was the second Adam/

Once we realize God foreknew everything they would do we can build from it. He knew they would partake of the Tree when He was commanding them to avoid it.

Exactly. Therefore the question remains. What does that say of his plan when he knew we would do that which he would condemn us for, rather than forgive what was literally the first innocents transgression as they were beguiled by the adversary whom He allowed to live after that adversary led a rebellion in the first paradise.

 

[LovethroughDove]

Yes. And Jesus was the second Adam/



Exactly. Therefore the question remains. What does that say of his plan when he knew we would do that which he would condemn us for, rather than forgive what was literally the first innocents transgression as they were beguiled by the adversary whom He allowed to live after that adversary led a rebellion in the first paradise.

Hebrews 2:10-14 is the answer

The Father is giving the Son a kingdom
Luke 1:32-33 "He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever; his kingdom will never end."

 

[Northman]

Therefore the question remains. What does that say of his plan when he knew we would do that which he would condemn us for, rather than forgive what was literally the first innocents transgression as they were beguiled by the adversary whom He allowed to live after that adversary led a rebellion in the first paradise.

Would Isaiah 45:7 help with understanding that?

 

[Winter Tapioca]

Would Isaiah 45:7 help with understanding that?

Actually it would support the observation quite well, and further the question. Thank you brother.

 

[Winter Tapioca]

Hebrews 2:10-14 is the answer

The Father is giving the Son a kingdom
Luke 1:32-33 "He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever; his kingdom will never end."

Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Matthew 1:23 "Behold, the virgin will hold in womb, and will bring forth a son, and they will call His name Immanuel" which is, being translated, "God with us."

 

[Winter Tapioca]

John 10:30 "I and my Father are one."
John 14:9 Jesus said to him, "Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, 'Show us the Father '?

 

[LovethroughDove]

John 10:30 "I and my Father are one."
John 14:9 Jesus said to him, "Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, 'Show us the Father '?

The mystery.

John 14:20 On that day you will realize that I am in the Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.

This scripture says we are One with God, but that doesn't make me the Father or the Son.

 

[Winter Tapioca]

The mystery.

John 14:20 On that day you will realize that I am in the Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.

This scripture says we are One with God, but that doesn't make me the Father or the Son.

However, being the Father is the source of created eternity it does mean that the Father and the Son are always in you because you are created.
The entire meaning of Jesus teaching, "no one comes to the Father but through me", making that connection.
There is one source for all that is, was , or ever shall be. No thing then can be anything other than created of, by, through , that sole (soul) source.
When we come to Jesus our eyes have been opened to realize mortality, the flesh temple we honor prior being we're "of the world and in the world", is not all that is. Nor then all that we should care about satisfying. In our lusts, in our desires for material things, in our satisfying our temper, our "personal" honor, our , our, our, I, I, I, me, me, me, mine, mine,mine, ideologies.
We are all , as I've heard it described, cells in the body of God.
And, as I've heard described, God, in itself, playing God with itself.
No, we're not God. We're born of the Holy Spirit that is called, God. We are the personification , what God imagines, human "looks and acts" like.
When we are saved, we are saved from "our self". And return to awareness of God in us.

 

[LovethroughDove]

However, being the Father is the source of created eternity it does mean that the Father and the Son are always in you because you are created.
The entire meaning of Jesus teaching, "no one comes to the Father but through me", making that connection.

Okay. Maybe I should've asked you what you were meaning about posting the scriptures about Jesus saying he and the Father are one. It seemed like you were stating that the Father isn't building a kingdom for the Son. Let me know if that is not what you were stating. Thanks.

 

[Winter Tapioca]

Mayhaps reading the whole of John chapter 14 would give contextual perspective to your query? So that you understand more what I am hoping to get across in my responses here sister. I've underlined that which coincides with my prior observations.
John 14
Let not your heart be troubled: believe in God, believe also in me. 2In my Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. 3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I come again, and will receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. 4And whither I go, ye know the way.....More of the chapter