Growth The Age of Accountability

[ezra]

I'm sorry I don't have the means to have my answer on audio for you, but I'll attempt to keep it short.

2 Sa 12:23 But now he (David’s child) is dead, wherefore should I (David) fast? can I bring him (the child) back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me. (Where is the child that David would ever see it again?)

:amen

 

[Eugene]

Our "fate" has been decided prior to our birth.
Romans 9:10 And not only so, but also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, 11 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God’s purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls— 12 she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” 13 As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

Hi Brother Cygnus, I just want to be sure that you're aware this was uttered maybe a thousand years after the fact, and the old nature of Esau had been illustrated.
Mal 1:2 I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob,
Mal 1:3 And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.

 

[Cygnus]

then there is no need to ever go to church. you stand around and wait and see if you going to heaven

Not quite sure what you mean by that. There are many reasons to go to church. Worship being one of them.

 

[ezra]

In the OT, I seem to recall 20 or so being used to some point as an age of acountability (In that time, for those people, in that place). I do sometimes wonder. One of my own many diagnoses was a "developmental disorder," which basically meant I was (somehow...) both precocious and behind other people, by a good bit. I messed up royally in life, got saved at 28, and now I seem to have been restored. My older, wiser, Pentecostal friend tells me that God sees to the heart of people and our situations, and He's chosen to bless me with things because I was out there, no clue how to be in society, etc. But then, I wonder...what of people who end up dying in their mess? Like I a guy I knew back in the day who died of a pain killer OD at 17, or a cousin of an acquaintance who recently died of a heroin OD at age 18. I"m not better than them now, I certainly wasn't before The Lord saved me, and yet...I was spared things that should have, the way things usually go, meant death and judgment.

OK. I think one's opinion on babies and kids also depends on if one is Calvinist or not. Calvinists don't have a problem with people going to hell. To them, its a miracle that anybody gets saved. Arminians seem to stress "making a decision for Christ," so I guess there maturity and other issues would play a big role in determining personal responsibility for accepting or rejecting Christ, personal sins, etc.

So...I don't know...but, there's that OT verse..."I will show mercy to whom I will show mercy, compassion to whom I will show compassion." God is sovereign, after all, and I think there's a huge mystery there, as well there should be.

thats why i dont go along with calvinism imo it is very misleading

 

[HeIsRisen2018]

Not quite sure what you mean by that. There are many reasons to go to church. Worship being one of them.

Once again, somebody misses the whole entire point of the post. They were talking about if we were judged as babies then it wouldn't matter what we said or did. Even I understood that.

 

[Cygnus]

Hi Brother Cygnus, I just want to be sure that you're aware this was uttered maybe a thousand years after the fact, and the old nature of Esau had been illustrated.
Mal 1:2 I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob,
Mal 1:3 And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.

Sure...Paul was using it as an example.....but were getting off topic. My post was more about what God does, knows, about us even befoe were born ...doing any Good or bad.

 

[ezra]

Once again, somebody misses the whole entire point of the post. They were talking about if we were judged as babies then it wouldn't matter what we said or did. Even I understood that.

a baby can not stand in judgment the only thing the baby knows is .its needs help thus the cries . we dont know the age of accountability ..i seen a little girl go to a pastor wanting to be saved. he told her she was SAFE .IF THEY HAVE KNOWLEDGE TO BE SAVED THEN THEY NEED SALVATION

 

[Cygnus]

Once again, somebody misses the whole entire point of the post. They were talking about if we were judged as babies then it wouldn't matter what we said or did. Even I understood that.

Every one is judged guilty. For some of the people who are judged as guilty ...Romans 9:15 tells us.....“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.

It's not what we do that gets us saved...That's Gods choice.

 

[HeIsRisen2018]

Every one is judged guilty. For some of the people who are judged as guilty ...Romans 9:15 tells us.....“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.

It's not what we do that gets us saved...That's Gods choice.

I agree with you to a point but once we are old enough to understand that we need Jesus and that we become Christians, or just acting like Christians do (mind you if you truly are a Christian you need to do both) aren't we helping ourselves get into Heaven even though it is ultimately God's choice in the end?

 

[for_his_glory]

Oh ok,... but I just want to ask you one question. I won't tell you whether or not I agree or disagree with that. But isn't it possible (not me I'm asking about) not to completelyrics reject God just be uncertain about Him?

If we are uncertain about God then we do not know Him and are none of His until we believe by faith in Him.

 

[Cygnus]

a baby can not stand in judgment the only thing the baby knows is .its needs help thus the cries . we dont know the age of accountability ..i seen a little girl go to a pastor wanting to be saved. he told her she was SAFE .IF THEY HAVE KNOWLEDGE TO BE SAVED THEN THEY NEED SALVATION

All I'm hearing from you is opinion....that's OK....but I think you should present a couple of verses to support your opinion.
Got Questions has a lot to say on the topic. I think you and HeIsRisen2018 might benefit from the article.

I snipped 2 quotes from Got questions:

With the above in mind, also consider this: Christ’s death is presented as sufficient for all of mankind. First John 2:2 says Jesus is “the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.” This verse is clear that Jesus’ death was sufficient for all sins, not just the sins of those who specifically have come to Him in faith. The fact that Christ’s death was sufficient for all sin would allow the possibility of God’s applying that payment to those who were never capable of believing.

and

Although it is possible that God applies Christ’s payment for sin to those who cannot believe, the Bible does not specifically say that He does this. Therefore, this is a subject about which we should not be adamant or dogmatic. God’s applying Christ’s death to those who cannot believe would seem consistent with His love and mercy. It is our position that God applies Christ’s payment for sin to babies and those who are mentally handicapped, since they are not mentally capable of understanding their sinful state and their need for the Savior, but again we cannot be dogmatic. Of this we are certain: God is loving, holy, merciful, just, and gracious. Whatever God does is always right and good, and He loves children even more than we do.

 

[HeIsRisen2018]

If we are uncertain about God then we do not know Him and are none of His until we believe by faith in Him.

Like I said, I wasn't asking for me. I've come to learn that having doubts doesn't mean that I completely lost my faith.

 

[Cygnus]

I agree with you to a point but once we are old enough to understand that we need Jesus and that we become Christians, or just acting like Christians do (mind you if you truly are a Christian you need to do both) aren't we helping ourselves get into Heaven even though it is ultimately God's choice in the end?

Are we helping ourselves to get into heaven? I would say no. Eph 2 tells us we are dead in our sins and trespasses. It goes on to say we are made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions. Eph 2:10 says....10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Once God saves you...you do the good works.

 

[for_his_glory]

God does not select before the womb who will spend eternity with Him or those who will spend eternity in the lake of fire. God is a sovereign God that in his love and patience for us would not want anyone to perish and only God knows the intents of the heart as he alone judges us, 2 Peter 3:9. God wants all of us to come to repentance, but not everyone will for the way they are raised from birth. Many babies are born into families that have rejected God and will be raised to also come against Him as their hearts are hardened.

The example of this is found in Deuteronomy 2:24-34 with the Amalekites and their children and in Exodus 11 with the firstborn of the Egyptians.

 

[HeIsRisen2018]

God does not select before the womb who will spend eternity with Him or those who will spend eternity in the lake of fire. God is a sovereign God that in his love and patience for us would not want anyone to perish and only God knows the intents of the heart as he alone judges us, 2 Peter 3:9. God wants all of us to come to repentance, but not everyone will for the way they are raised from birth. Many babies are born into families that have rejected God and will be raised to also come against Him as their hearts are hardened.

The example of this is found in Deuteronomy 2:24-34 with the Amalekites and their children and in Exodus 11 with the firstborn of the Egyptians.

Oh, I see what you're saying now, I thought you were saying that babies who were born into an atheist family automatically went to Hell if they died. You're saying that they could grow up to turn against Him right? Or at least that's what I think you're saying.

 

[for_his_glory]

Like I said, I wasn't asking for me. I've come to learn that having doubts doesn't mean that I completely lost my faith.

It's by faith and trust that we no longer doubt, but yet there are so many things we question and that is why we search scripture for full understanding. There are many things even I question, but yet search for the whole of knowledge and not in part.

 

[Cygnus]

God does not select before the womb who will spend eternity with Him or those who will spend eternity in the lake of fire. God is a sovereign God that in his love and patience for us would not want anyone to perish and only God knows the intents of the heart as he alone judges us, 2 Peter 3:9. God wants all of us to come to repentance, but not everyone will for the way they are raised from birth. Many babies are born into families that have rejected God and will be raised to also come against Him as their hearts are hardened.

The example of this is found in Deuteronomy 2:24-34 with the Amalekites and their children and in Exodus 11 with the firstborn of the Egyptians.

God selected who would spend eternity with Him before the world was even made.
Eph 1:4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love

 

[HeIsRisen2018]

God selected who would spend eternity with Him before the world was even made.
Eph 1:4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love

I actually sort of see what you are saying now. Since God is the Father He will know the path that we decide to take.

 

[for_his_glory]

Oh, I see what you're saying now, I thought you were saying that babies who were born into an atheist family automatically went to Hell if they died. You're saying that they could grow up to turn against Him right? Or at least that's what I think you're saying.

It's like the children of the Amalekites and the Egyptian children that God allowed to be killed as nothing but an evil heart was found in them for they would always come against and persecute those who are of God.

 

[for_his_glory]

God selected who would spend eternity with Him before the world was even made.
Eph 1:4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love

Yes, God chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, but that we should be holy and blameless before Him. Have all been holy and blameless since birth, no.