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The age of accountability

All of us die.
Including babies.
And we all die exactly as God has determined we will one day die.
You are confused in equating God's timing and method of physical death to be a determining factor with the fate of the spirit.
The two are completely unrelated.
What does this have to do with what I posted in post #50 as I never said anything about God's timing for when we die.
You indicate in #50 that God ordering the death of the Amalekite children was indication of their being disqualified for heaven.
Do all babies go to be with the Lord when they die? IMO the answer is no. Remember, God only gives breath (spirit), but doesn't decide who a baby is born to. Two examples of babies that have died and also will be raised from the grave to stand in Gods white throne judgment all we have to do is look at the story of the Amalekites and their children in Deuteronomy 2:24-34.
God is no respecter of persons.
Even infant persons.
God also commanded that all the Jewish male children of Bethlehem would be killed by Herod.
Jewish blood of those children afforded them no special eternal consideration above that of the Amalekite children .
Wherever you say those Jewish children of Bethlehem slain by God's will are today is the same place the Amalekite children slain by God's will are today.

Unchecked Copy Box
Matthew 2:16-18
Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently enquired of the wise men.
 
You indicate in #50 that God ordering the death of the Amalekite children was indication of their being disqualified for heaven.

God is no respecter of persons.
Even infant persons.
God also commanded that all the Jewish male children of Bethlehem would be killed by Herod.
Jewish blood of those children afforded them no special eternal consideration above that of the Amalekite children .
Wherever you say those Jewish children of Bethlehem slain by God's will are today is the same place the Amalekite children slain by God's will are today.

Unchecked Copy Box
Matthew 2:16-18
Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently enquired of the wise men.
I only used the example of the Amalekite children and the Egyptian children first born being killed to only show that not all babies go to heaven. It was only an example and nothing more. If you want to continue with this, please start a new thread as I will no longer reply to this as this thread is about the age of accountability.
 
I read it and not sure what "truth" I was supposed come to. First of all this was a story from Jewish Midrashim. How do I know the story is true?
Reading the story out loud seems to be the key . When I read the story out loud to my wife I came to a point in the story and the Holy Spirit fell on me to a point I could not read and I all I could do is weep , it took a few minutes to regain composure and finish reading . That is how I know the story is true .
Second, what I get is that David was born out of fornication or adultery.
No , It was neither one of these . David's father Yishai had put away his wife and was not longer having relations with her , but Nitzevet switched places with her maidservant with whom Yishai desired to have relations . Nitzevet and Yishai were still husband and wife .
I don't think I have ever read anything out loud, even the Bible.
There is power in the spoken word , try reading out loud , you don't know what you are missing .
 


Psalms 58:3
as soon as they are born.
All people are born totally depraved. Without being made new creatures in Christ by God's power, they are prevented by their wicked nature from pleasing God (cf. Psa_51:5; Rom_3:9-18; 2Co_5:17).

The wicked are estranged from the womb - “This,” says Dr. Kennicott, “and the next two verses, I take to be the answer of Jehovah to the question in the two first verses, as the Psa_58:6, Psa_58:7, and Psa_58:8, are the answer of the psalmist, and the remainder contains the decree of Jehovah.” He calls these wicked men, men who had been always wicked, originally and naturally bad, and brought up in falsehood, flattery, and lying. The part they acted now was quite in character.

3–5 The character of the wicked. Deviancy (astraywayward) and falsehood (lies) are their birth-inheritance (cf. 51:5); they carry a poison within, and are incorrigible: (lit.) ‘like a deaf cobra that stops its ears’, both unable and unwilling to hear any call to be different (4; cf. Rom. 1:28–32; Tit. 3:3).
lit. literally J. A. Motyer, “The Psalms,” in New Bible Commentary: 21st Century Edition, ed. D. A. Carson et al., 4th ed. (Leicester, England; Downers Grove, IL: Inter-Varsity Press, 1994), 522.

58:3–5 The wicked are characterized by deceit. The psalmist shows the extent of their wickedness by describing them as evil from birth. He describes their wickedness as poison (Ps 140:3; see note on Job 20:16): They are as dangerous as snakes that ignore their charmers (Jer 8:17).John D. Barry et al., Faithlife Study Bible (Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2012, 2016), Ps 58:3–5.

Ver. 3. The wicked are estranged from the womb, &c.] Which original corruption of nature accounts for all the wickedness done by men: they are conceived in sin, shapen in iniquity, and are transgressors from the womb; they are alienated from God, and from that godly life which is agreeable to him, and he requires; and from the knowledge and fear of him, and love to him; and they desire not the knowledge of him nor his ways; they are far from his law, and averse to it; and still more so to the Gospel of Christ; the doctrines of which, as well as the great things written in the law, are strange things to them; and they are aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, estranged from the people of God, know nothing of them, neither of their joys, nor of their sorrows. They go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies; they are wicked from their infancy, from their youth upward; and sin, which is meant by going astray, as soon as they are capable of it, and which is very early. Sin soon appears in the temper and actions of men; they go out of God’s way, and turn every one to their own way, and walk in the broad road which leads to destruction: and particularly they are very early guilty of lying; as soon as they can speak, and before they can speak plain, they lisp out lies, which they learn from their father the devil, who is the father of lies; and so they continue all their days strangers to divine things, going astray from God, the God of truth, continually doing abominations and speaking lies; which continuance in these things makes the difference between reprobate men and God’s elect; for though the latter are the same by nature as the former, yet their natures are restrained, before conversion, from going into all the sins they are inclined to; and if not, yet at conversion a stop is put to their progress in iniquity.<sup>[1]</sup>

<sup>[1]</sup> John Gill, An Exposition of the Old Testament, vol. 3, The Baptist Commentary Series (London: Mathews and Leigh, 1810), 763.
Do you have John Gill's email so I can correspond with him ?
 
@Free pointed out the sin was not nakedness.

But was it not guilta and shame.

Their eyes were opened to right and wrong.
I agree that the sin was not their nakedness. Their sin was disobeying God's command. Through their failure to keep the command their nakedness was exposed.

They were guilty and ashamed of what the serpent decieved them about??

This would be the same as 1 Johnd 2:16

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the boastful pride of life, is not from the Father, but is from the world.

I am thinking out loud here and me be off.
Their shame was in the nakedness of their unrighteousness. Through the commandment they realized they were naked, having no righteousness of their own. Realizing this they attempted to clothe themselves with the work of their hands. By nature that's what everyone does. We're all born unclothed in righteousness, and the law exposes that fact, and our first natural instinct is to clothe ourselves with the righteousness of our own works. To our natural thinking that's the right thing to do. But God provides us with a covering for our shameful nakedness (the absence of righteousness) through the shedding of blood.
 
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Age of accountability is nowhere found in the Bible and is a preconception that only leads to speculation.
Yes, no age of accountability is found in the Bible because that varies person to person. But accountability itself is in the Bible. And it's linked to when you can 'see/hear':

John 9:40-41
40Some of the Pharisees who were with Him heard this, and they asked Him, “Are we blind too?”
41“If you were blind,” Jesus replied, “you would not be guilty of sin. But since you claim you can see, your guilt remains.”

John 15:22-23
22If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin. Now, however, they have no excuse for their sin.
23Whoever hates Me hates My Father as well. 24If I had not done among them the works that no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin; but now they have seen and hated both Me and My Father.


So, accountability is according to what you know, not how old you are. Through knowledge our nakedness is exposed, and we become accountable to cover that nakedness.
 
I only used the example of the Amalekite children and the Egyptian children first born being killed to only show that not all babies go to heaven. It was only an example and nothing more. If you want to continue with this, please start a new thread as I will no longer reply to this as this thread is about the age of accountability.
All you showed was that Amalekite and Egyptian babies were Killed by God's authority .
Just as I showed that the Jewish children of Bethlehem were killed by God's prophesized authority .
I showed specifically by the person of David's dead infant son, conceived in adultery no less, of an infant going to heaven.
It is not even arguable that this infant is with David in God's presence today.
2Samuel 12:22-

"And he said, While the child was yet alive, I fasted and wept: for I said, Who can tell whether GOD will be gracious to me, that the child may live?

But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me."

You have not , because you cannot, show any specific instance in scripture of a dead baby being spoken of as being eternally lost to hell
 
A lot of Muslims, Hindu's and a bunch of cult leaders can say the same thing. Emotional experiences don't = Holy Spirit.
Challenge not taken , you have no worries .
 
David, who wrote psalms under the prophetic influence of God's Spirit , also spoke with certainty that He and the infant son He sired in the act of adultery no less , who died in infancy would be reunited for eternity in God's heaven .
God is no respecter of persons.
He is no respecter of persons?

Exodus 20:5 you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me,
Exodus 20:6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

David was Gods chosen instrument. The child was born to David, therefore a covenant child.

1 Corinthians 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband; otherwise your children would be unclean, but now they are holy.
 
He is no respecter of persons?

Exodus 20:5 you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me,
Exodus 20:6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
Yes God says that children will be impacted negatively due to sins taught to them by their parents.
How odd that you are surprised to discover this just now ?
Have you also never been able to connect the dots in how parents raise their children is connected to the suicide rate among youth being higher today than at any time in this country's history ?
Did you think we as a society have arrived to this point due to more and more parents loving God & teaching His commands ?
Psychology and Relationships

Youth suicide rates rose 62% from 2007 to 2021: ‘People feel hopeless,’ one recent grad says

Published Tue, Dec 5 202312:10 PM ESTUpdated Thu, Dec 7 202310:05 AM EST


Children always are impacted by what their parents teach them. And it is generational .
There is nothing new under the sun.
God has decreed that there will always be the equivalent of a Father & Mother, and their children wearing tee shirts that celebrate murder and the children growing up to perpetuate the celebration of murder, and paying the horrific price for embracing sin.

Merch glorifying UnitedHealthcare CEO killer floods online stores

NBC Universal
Kat Tenbarge
December 10, 2024 at 9:06 AM
 
The bible says we are born in sin so the evil nature is in a child. Another verse says that a bad tree (Adam) cannot bare good fruit (Adam's children).
The penalty for sin is death. Children die and thus this verdict fits based on them being in sin.


I think that they/children can both have a sin nature, being completely separated from God, and do the actions that are sinful, but at the same time innocent due to ignorance.
 
Yes God says that children will be impacted negatively due to sins taught to them by their parents.
How odd that you are surprised to discover this just now ?
I've know that for 50 years or more.

Have you also never been able to connect the dots in how parents raise their children is connected to the suicide rate among youth being higher today than at any time in this country's history ?
Did you think we as a society have arrived to this point due to more and more parents loving God & teaching His commands ?
I know they haven't. That is what I have been trying to say. Churches today do not Catechize their children. They think it is enough to bring them to Church where the Sunday School teacher teaches them Bible stories and them let them play with their phones or draw during the worship service. As soon as Church is over, they head off to the amusement park or the swimming pool because "Christians do not have to observe the Sabbath."
They have turned the grace of God into licentiousness.
 
So, accountability is according to what you know
You sure?
Leviticus 5:17 "If a person sins, and commits any of these things which are forbidden to be done by the commandments of the LORD, though he does not know it, yet he is guilty and shall bear his iniquity.

But in the next passage he can be atoned for by bringing a ram to the priest.

Romans 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law

I believe the first part "without law" are all those people who didn't have the law like the Jews did - through prophets or written.

This is from Robertson's Word Pictures
This is a very important statement. The heathen who sin are lost, because they do not keep the law which they have, not because they do not have the Mosaic law or Christianity.

Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse

I would guess they are mostly guilty of idolatry. They all had false gods. That is where all the false religions come from.
 
Do you have John Gill's email so I can correspond with him ?
I understand that this is not a serious issue to you and a joke

Humans are born in sin no matter what you believe or felt while reading a jewish fable outloud.

The Lord does not go against His word.

The Bible no where says that humans are born good or innocent.
 
I understand that this is not a serious issue to you and a joke
Your reply was not from you it was from John Gill .


Psalms 58:3
as soon as they are born.
All people are born totally depraved. Without being made new creatures in Christ by God's power, they are prevented by their wicked nature from pleasing God (cf. Psa_51:5; Rom_3:9-18; 2Co_5:17).

The wicked are estranged from the womb - “This,” says Dr. Kennicott, “and the next two verses, I take to be the answer of Jehovah to the question in the two first verses, as the Psa_58:6, Psa_58:7, and Psa_58:8, are the answer of the psalmist, and the remainder contains the decree of Jehovah.” He calls these wicked men, men who had been always wicked, originally and naturally bad, and brought up in falsehood, flattery, and lying. The part they acted now was quite in character.

3–5 The character of the wicked. Deviancy (astraywayward) and falsehood (lies) are their birth-inheritance (cf. 51:5); they carry a poison within, and are incorrigible: (lit.) ‘like a deaf cobra that stops its ears’, both unable and unwilling to hear any call to be different (4; cf. Rom. 1:28–32; Tit. 3:3).
lit. literally J. A. Motyer, “The Psalms,” in New Bible Commentary: 21st Century Edition, ed. D. A. Carson et al., 4th ed. (Leicester, England; Downers Grove, IL: Inter-Varsity Press, 1994), 522.

58:3–5 The wicked are characterized by deceit. The psalmist shows the extent of their wickedness by describing them as evil from birth. He describes their wickedness as poison (Ps 140:3; see note on Job 20:16): They are as dangerous as snakes that ignore their charmers (Jer 8:17).John D. Barry et al., Faithlife Study Bible (Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2012, 2016), Ps 58:3–5.

Ver. 3. The wicked are estranged from the womb, &c.] Which original corruption of nature accounts for all the wickedness done by men: they are conceived in sin, shapen in iniquity, and are transgressors from the womb; they are alienated from God, and from that godly life which is agreeable to him, and he requires; and from the knowledge and fear of him, and love to him; and they desire not the knowledge of him nor his ways; they are far from his law, and averse to it; and still more so to the Gospel of Christ; the doctrines of which, as well as the great things written in the law, are strange things to them; and they are aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, estranged from the people of God, know nothing of them, neither of their joys, nor of their sorrows. They go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies; they are wicked from their infancy, from their youth upward; and sin, which is meant by going astray, as soon as they are capable of it, and which is very early. Sin soon appears in the temper and actions of men; they go out of God’s way, and turn every one to their own way, and walk in the broad road which leads to destruction: and particularly they are very early guilty of lying; as soon as they can speak, and before they can speak plain, they lisp out lies, which they learn from their father the devil, who is the father of lies; and so they continue all their days strangers to divine things, going astray from God, the God of truth, continually doing abominations and speaking lies; which continuance in these things makes the difference between reprobate men and God’s elect; for though the latter are the same by nature as the former, yet their natures are restrained, before conversion, from going into all the sins they are inclined to; and if not, yet at conversion a stop is put to their progress in iniquity.<sup>[1]</sup>

<sup>[1]</sup> John Gill, An Exposition of the Old Testament, vol. 3, The Baptist Commentary Series (London: Mathews and Leigh, 1810), 763.
So , were any of these words above yours ? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Humans are born in sin no matter what you believe or felt while reading a jewish fable outloud.
What David was taking about in Psalm51:5 was his mother's deceit she used to procreate with David's father . My interpretation of scripture with the Holy Spirit confirming it to me .

You can believe as you will .

The Lord does not go against His word.

Isaiah 55:11 Context​


8For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. 9For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. 10For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater: 11So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it. 12For ye shall go out with joy, and be led forth with peace: the mountains and the hills shall break forth before you into singing, and all the trees of the field shall clap their hands. 13Instead of the thorn shall come up the fir tree, and instead of the brier shall come up the myrtle tree: and it shall be to the LORD for a name, for an everlasting sign that shall not be cut off.
 
Your reply was not from you it was from John Gill .

So , were any of these words above yours ? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

What David was taking about in Psalm51:5 was his mother's deceit she used to procreate with David's father . My interpretation of scripture with the Holy Spirit confirming it to me .

You can believe as you will .


Isaiah 55:11 Context​


8For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. 9For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. 10For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater: 11So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it. 12For ye shall go out with joy, and be led forth with peace: the mountains and the hills shall break forth before you into singing, and all the trees of the field shall clap their hands. 13Instead of the thorn shall come up the fir tree, and instead of the brier shall come up the myrtle tree: and it shall be to the LORD for a name, for an everlasting sign that shall not be cut off.
I will trust the theologians over those on the internet to teach me what I cannot understand from the original languages.

At the end of the day, we are all fallible humans and really do not know as much as we think we do. Our pride gets in the way.

Although, I have had many tell me that I am not "spiritual" enough to understand the deep truths of the written word.

What we have in common is salvation and our love for Our God and Savior the Lord Jesus Christ.
 
I will trust the theologians over those on the internet to teach me what I cannot understand from the original languages.
Sure I will read various writings from theologians but trust is a whole different thing . John had something to say about the Holy Spirit .

John 16:13 Context​


10Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; 11Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. 12I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. 13Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 16A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father.
 
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