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The Bible Doesn't Say Anything

brother Paul said:
If the Bible is true then it was the chicken, if not then one cannot know as one enters the endless circle of futility...
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Paul,

What evidence would you provide to your non-Christian neighbour to demonstrate that the Bible is true?

Oz
 
the more i post in forums. more i learn just how fickle some can be and we wonder why our churches are in the shape they are. if they act the same way in church as they do in the forum......
 
OzSpen said:
Paul,

What evidence would you provide to your non-Christian neighbour to demonstrate that the Bible is true?

Oz
Click to expand...

There is far too much to include in such a format but historical archaeological and prophetic arguments are a good start intellectually, in the end however it is the love of Christ that draws them (and all people want such a love) and then the promise of redemption. Even Hindus trying to escape the wheel of this life by eliminating their bad Karma can grasp the notion of God making an offer to all people to have their sins remmissed (and they all hunger for it) only not all for the same reasons.

In other words there are many points and evidence that can made, but in the end it is the Gospel that is the Power of God unto Salvation.
 
OzSpen said:
Paul,

What evidence would you provide to your non-Christian neighbour to demonstrate that the Bible is true?

Oz
Click to expand...
Not for me but will give it shot.

-Be a good neighbor. Pick up after your dog(s), take out the trash cans after dark and bring them in as soon as they are emptied by the waste management professionals; mow your lawn, keep your front and back yard tidy.
-Greet them
-Support them when they mourn a death by providing meals, offers to transport family members when they are sick or in need of transportation due to a car in the auto mechanic shop.
-Pray for them (they may not know you are doing such)
-Befriend them
Bottom line our actions speak loud to our neighbors. They probably see us go to church, so once you befriend them invite them to church if they are not already going.

I say this with being on the other end. I have neighbors up the street a bit who my kids went to school with their kids and played together growing up. Good family always kind to my kids. Figured they were Christians too (went to another church) but did not know for sure until they heard I was fighting round three of chemotherapy. They came to my door one night with a Christian get well card and said they knew I was a believer in Christ and they wanted to drop by and let me know they are praying for me. They gave me a copy of their favorite worship music and a restaurant gift card. I was overcome with their compassion and Christian love. Their actions 'spoke' the Bible to me.
 
OzSpen said:
Paul,

What evidence would you provide to your non-Christian neighbour to demonstrate that the Bible is true?

Oz
Click to expand...
It's a good question. Frankly, off the top of my head (which is empty actually) I got nothing. I suppose it depends on a lot of factors regarding my non-Christian neighbor's attitude. If it boils down to "Christians are hypocrites" then Pegasus' approach is a good place to start. But if it's a non believer who has questions about the "contradictions" or the resurrection of Jesus (dead people don't come back to life) then I have a place to start. Gary Habermas is a good place to start if the resurrection is the real issue. A good book on the internal consistency of the Bible would be another (I can't think of one off the top of my empty head.) Another would be "Undersigned Coincidences" that are found in the Bible (there's a book on that too.) If God is no more real than the flying spaghetti monster, you'd have to start in another place. So what I'm saying is to first you'd have to know the core objection the neighbor has and then go from there.

I'd like to make it clear that I do believe that the Bible alone can overcome many obstacles to faith. But often that is not enough for some people. Read the book, "Not God's Type" and you'll see in action exactly what Pegasus is talking about. An atheist professor came to faith after a long time of building a relation with Christians who were "different" than what she expected. Not pushy, not preachy. Just loving.

Looking forward to what Oz and others have to say. I'm off to work or I'd do a better job in this post but the 5 year olds await. Happy Friday.
 
Papa Zoom said:
It's a good question. Frankly, off the top of my head (which is empty actually) I got nothing. I suppose it depends on a lot of factors regarding my non-Christian neighbor's attitude. If it boils down to "Christians are hypocrites" then Pegasus' approach is a good place to start. But if it's a non believer who has questions about the "contradictions" or the resurrection of Jesus (dead people don't come back to life) then I have a place to start. Gary Habermas is a good place to start if the resurrection is the real issue. A good book on the internal consistency of the Bible would be another (I can't think of one off the top of my empty head.) Another would be "Undersigned Coincidences" that are found in the Bible (there's a book on that too.) If God is no more real than the flying spaghetti monster, you'd have to start in another place. So what I'm saying is to first you'd have to know the core objection the neighbor has and then go from there.

I'd like to make it clear that I do believe that the Bible alone can overcome many obstacles to faith. But often that is not enough for some people. Read the book, "Not God's Type" and you'll see in action exactly what Pegasus is talking about. An atheist professor came to faith after a long time of building a relation with Christians who were "different" than what she expected. Not pushy, not preachy. Just loving.

Looking forward to what Oz and others have to say. I'm off to work or I'd do a better job in this post but the 5 year olds await. Happy Friday.
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Important to note. If the conversation changes to "I was raised in a non-Christian home, what can you tell me about Jesus and Christianity?" Wow, be ready for that! There are folks like that who end up here asking honest questions and at other sites. I just read an article of a young lady at Yale who is gay who through interacting with Christians on campus at the cafeteria and befriending her made her go out and search. She saw a friend's roommate's copy of CS Lewis' "Mere Christianity" actually stole that book (don't know why but she admitted she did) read it and confessed Christ as Lord and Savior. She then joined the campus Christian group and started to go to church and deal with her sin. So for a college student who is in an academic environment, CS Lewis worked out well.

For a neighbor? Depends but after having chit chat and sharing our own journey of God's Grace, we should offer them not only a Bible but something akin to "Mere Christianity" and not a text book to explain the faith.

Hope not off subject, but as I mentioned in my personal account....The Bible "speaking" we can also do for fellow Christians in our neighborhood who may not be close friends or go to our church. Their answer to prayer may be just across the street (us). Plus some may be shut-ins and when we find this out we should be offering help and even rides to church as many shut-ins tend to not go to church and don't want to be a burden. And like my neighbors, sometimes (with fellow Christians at least) we just need to 'do' even if not asked. For example, my buddy Ed (brother in Christ) when he knows there is a loss in the family in his neighborhood will just show up and mow the lawn when the family is out and the lawn gets a bit shaggy. No one has ever complained. His wife shows up with a meal for the grieving family as well.
 
Papa Zoom said:
Put a Bible on a coffee table, let it sit there and wait for it to speak. You'll be there all day. It says nothing because it's a Book with paper and filled with words. Words from God to be sure, but readers read to comprehend. That is the purpose of reading: To understand what is written. But it is YOU who is doing the reading and inferring from the Text. The Text isn't forcing you to think or believe the way you do.

People post verses to support their POV. Quoting verses and telling others what it means isn't proving your case. The Bible doesn't say anything. You have to infer the meaning from the text. Once you do that, it's not the Bible that's doing the talking, you are.

It seems many people are self-proclaimed biblical experts. Many people claimed to "know" the truth even though their claims differ from other "truth tellers."

Each side claims the other is ignoring the Scriptures or misunderstanding them. And on and on and on.

No one has a perfect theology and all of us has something wrong in our beliefs. We read the Bible and often have a knee jerk reaction to the meaning of the text. The Bible says it, and that's good enough for me!

Well as I said, no Bible has never said anything.
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If you can't find the truth in the Bible, then where are you going to look?
 
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Papa Zoom said:
Mark, that's not what I said. I've actually explained it several times.
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Yeah I know. You say it's your brain. But I say it's your spirit.

I believe God gives men a believing heart and a spirit of understanding while we are still in our mothers' womb. So we should not boast as if we were not given these things. For myself, I can't remember a time when I didn't believe in God. And then I read the Bible. But as I said, I already had everything I needed to understand. So I can say with confidence that Jesus is the truth; the words he gave us are true.

But this is my understanding.
 
MarkT said:
Yeah I know. You say it's your brain. But I say it's your spirit.

I believe God gives men a believing heart and a spirit of understanding while we are still in our mothers' womb. So we should not boast as if we were not given these things. For myself, I can't remember a time when I didn't believe in God. And then I read the Bible. But as I said, I already had everything I needed to understand. So I can say with confidence that Jesus is the truth; the words he gave us are true.

But this is my understanding.
Click to expand...

Most true genuine Spirit filled and motivated believers of the first 300 years (many of whom suffered and died for their faith in Christ) could not read. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word, but not necessarily being read IN the word. And though I believe the Bible is true, it does not contain all the truth there is, just what we need to come to Christ and be saved (which I believe IS the most important thing of al truths).
 
MarkT said:
Yeah I know. You say it's your brain. But I say it's your spirit.

I believe God gives men a believing heart and a spirit of understanding while we are still in our mothers' womb. So we should not boast as if we were not given these things. For myself, I can't remember a time when I didn't believe in God. And then I read the Bible. But as I said, I already had everything I needed to understand. So I can say with confidence that Jesus is the truth; the words he gave us are true.

But this is my understanding.
Click to expand...

I agree with everything you just posted.
 
brother Paul said:
Most true genuine Spirit filled and motivated believers of the first 300 years (many of whom suffered and died for their faith in Christ) could not read. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word, but not necessarily being read IN the word. And though I believe the Bible is true, it does not contain all the truth there is, just what we need to come to Christ and be saved (which I believe IS the most important thing of al truths).
Click to expand...
Would you agree that there are things in the Bible that require in-depth study to understand and even then, our understanding may be lacking in some cases?
 
brother Paul said:
Most true genuine Spirit filled and motivated believers of the first 300 years (many of whom suffered and died for their faith in Christ) could not read. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word, but not necessarily being read IN the word. And though I believe the Bible is true, it does not contain all the truth there is, just what we need to come to Christ and be saved (which I believe IS the most important thing of al truths).
Click to expand...

Why would you say they couldn't read?

Apparently the saints could read Paul's letters. Peter and John and James also wrote letters.
 
when trying to reach the lost to whose mind is closed towards God only the Holy spirit can work.. a church i was pastor at i had man who came who was agnostic he just never wanted to believe . to this day he is real close to antiGod the word of God testifies of its self
 
Papa Zoom said:
Put a Bible on a coffee table, let it sit there and wait for it to speak. You'll be there all day. It says nothing because it's a Book with paper and filled with words. Words from God to be sure, but readers read to comprehend. That is the purpose of reading: To understand what is written. But it is YOU who is doing the reading and inferring from the Text. The Text isn't forcing you to think or believe the way you do.

People post verses to support their POV. Quoting verses and telling others what it means isn't proving your case. The Bible doesn't say anything. You have to infer the meaning from the text. Once you do that, it's not the Bible that's doing the talking, you are.

It seems many people are self-proclaimed biblical experts. Many people claimed to "know" the truth even though their claims differ from other "truth tellers."

Each side claims the other is ignoring the Scriptures or misunderstanding them. And on and on and on.

No one has a perfect theology and all of us has something wrong in our beliefs. We read the Bible and often have a knee jerk reaction to the meaning of the text. The Bible says it, and that's good enough for me!

Well as I said, no Bible has never said anything.
Click to expand...
Mine does. It speaks to me electronically via the MP3 stuff. :D
 
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