'The Bible tells me so' is wrong

[smaller]

I really liked this post smaller. We do really need to test the spirits, and it is not always easy to figure out what is happening. I liked what you wrote "YES, Jesus IS REAL. The question is HOW'. And I appreciate the problems that arise from seeking to hear from the Lord.

I tried to convey this to you in simple terms earlier. We know for example, from my last post, that GOD IS LOVE. IF we are "following" the Spirit, the Spirit will LEAD us. How? In LOVE. Does this mean I need to hear a voice? Nope. Gods Language for this is unspoken. Love does not need "Words" in our head either.

I know when my "heart burns" that Jesus is working, actively in me, to move me to do or say something or both, and I will be 'led.' Not by voice, but by Spirit. And yes, I do have to "feel" my ways through these things. I have no "need" for voices when I have The Spirit, and I do have His Spirit in me to guide and direct my ways and path.

I gave this example in a "Christmas" thread here recently. I was "led," not by voices in my head, but by my heart, burning, not to lie to my 5 children about Santa Claus. Will others be so led? I don't really care what their hearts lead them to do. Not my problem. I was forced by my own "internal" convictions to NOT LIE to them in that collective fantasy that many engage in. I don't condemn others who do. It's just that my heart said NO and there, I listen, without voices telling me.

It was this same conviction that led me out of a certain orthodox sect where everyone was lining up on Ash Weds. to kiss the feet of a little brass statue of Jesus. My heart didn't just say NO, it almost jumped out of my chest to NOT do that. I refused to buckle the knee and kiss the feet of that little brass 4 foot tall phony Jesus in "loving adoration." I know where Jesus is already. IN ME. Not in that little brass statue. Others may not have the "same convictions" but that is the conviction that my HEART gave me to follow.

I even got the scriptures from the O.T. immediately flashed, internally, to NOT do that. Call it what you will. There are no voices required to "follow the HEART of Jesus."

I'm NOT saying everyone's convictions will be the same or equal. That is never the case.

There are two ways to handle those problems. One is to keep it in mind and work at our discernment of spirits.

I accept the reality of this "as it is written" matter. Mark 4:15. For YEARS, even decades, I openly rejected that scripture as "applicable" to ME, because, I, I, I you see, am a believer. But, one day, Jesus, in CONVICTION, reminded me that I will LIVE by Every Word of God. Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4. And "His Convictions" in me led me to understand that scripture DOES happen to me and DOES apply. And I no longer FEARED or REJECTED that Word as personally applicable to ME, at least to "my flesh." And it went a LONG way to "discerning" of spirits, after that.

Example: I walked into a setting of 100 or more people at an evening picnic. We were meeting friends there. It was dark. I hadn't been 10 feet into the setting and my focus was upon a certain man, sitting in the back of the group, at a picnic table. Don't ask me why. And the hair on my arms and neck bristled. I KNEW there was something up with that guy, from what? Yeah, my heart was telling me something. I found out a few days later that the guy was a murderer. I had a chance to witness to the man at a later date. That is called a "leading" of the Spirit. After telling the guy about Jesus, I told him my account of the "spirit of murder." Needless to say, my witnessing floored him and his life changed quite dramatically to the good, after our engagements.

Did I hear a single word in my head? Nope. I could have ALMOST told you exactly what it was, but I did not want to "guess" at it, knowing the 'facts' would come my way soon enough. And they did.

The other is to turn back to leaning on our understanding of the Scriptures. We do need to have an understanding, but if we turn from the Lord what happened?
The Scriptures go over this issue.

To the Galatians Paul wrote "I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel" and also "You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified? This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by works of the Law or by hearing with faith?

There are some very interesting principles and precepts laid out by Paul, quite entirely REAL, today. One of those precepts IS that our 'flesh' is quite entirely and factually AGAINST and CONTRARY to the Spirit, and vice versa. Gal. 5:17. I accept this principle, personally, and I KNOW WHY, from not only what is in "writing" but from internal reality. It's one of the reasons I would NEVER trust any voice in my head claiming to be Jesus. Paul examples this 'quite entirely factual internal construct' in Romans 7:7-13. I accept this "as it is written" principle as HARD LINE FACT, unchanging and unchangeable for now, for not only "my flesh" but the flesh of all mankind. Understanding this "as it is written" and "personally applying it", because I KNOW it to be TRUE and ACCURATE from internal reality, it has given me insight beyond any comparative values.

These are the simple examples. There are much deeper waters to probe in "as it is written" that translate to "present active reality."

The reality is that there is a spiritual realm around us. God is spirit, but He is not the only spirit. Because of that we have to discern what spirit we are hearing from. So the problem is that we hear from spirits whether we close out spiritual ears or not. We can act like the proverbial Ostrich with it's head in the earth, or we can practice listening and carefully considering what we are hearing.

It is quite easy to sort through the matters, IF we are observant to "follow Paul" as he followed Christ, which Paul advises us to do. I have. Still do. 1 Cor. 11:1. I wouldn't trade Paul's 'as it is written' INSIGHTs for all the material goods on earth or any voice in my head claiming to be Jesus. The treasures there are far more valuable. IF Jesus is going to speak to me, I'll recognize it by HIS COMPLIANCE measures, already given, and I'd expect Him/His Voice to "comply" to HIS OWN RULES, "as it is written." So, yeah, I'd be listening for the 'CADENCE' of Word Reality, which IS present in ALL His Prior Speakings, 'as it is written.' His Voice would be just as clear as a BELL, if in compliance, and completely recognizable, as LEGIT. And I have had such Word, internally, AUDIBLE in the extreme. What did I do? The very first thing I did the first time it happened, was ran for my Strongs to 'discipher' it. Which is HOW His Word should come. It will come with a requirement of DISCIPHERing. He Will Speak According to His Ways, "as it is written." I've shared this particular account a few times here.

Which ways I have studied, for decades now. And have "experienced" in the NOW.

I can assure you these are not conversations over coffee and donuts or cereal.

They are DEADLY serious. And if they are serious enough, we will, (and I have) will fall to the ground, as if we are dead. And it will be quite beyond our "control." Rev. 1:14.

When God Speaks, SERIOUSLY, there WILL be an "immobilization" of the FLESH.

I might liken these to a serious Word, which I heard the first time, to simply get my attentions to something, and move on that direction, which I did. It was not in the "deadly serious" category of falling to the ground.

But I have also had times of deep and sobbing tears, that tore me apart, when being so moved as well. This may be considered a 'second' level type of event.

If such Words are accompanied by a "vision" such as John encountered in Rev. there is going to be a 'drop dead' experience as one of (many) signs of legitimacy.

I could write long on this subject. But Isaiah gives, as does Daniel, and others, very certain PATTERNS to recognize and test the legitimacy of such matters, to know what is legit, and what is not.

The Galatians were bewitched! That is to say demonic spirits had turn them back from hearing the Spirit of God by faith!

Yes! Spot on INsight there.

I'm sure you also recognize that the pulpits themselves are filled with such, to this day. There are "as it is written" principles behind these matters, given to us to understand and sort through these things.

Paul recognized this problem and tried to explain this to them. Paul also wrote to them, "But the Scriptures has shut up everyone under sin so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe." (Gal 3:22)

Also true for ourselves my friend. We have to "submit" to the "it is written" conclusions IF we think we "hear." There will be no strays let in the Door of understandings.

IF a man thinks he hears from Jesus, I like to walk them right down the lines that Paul gave us, in writing, to see if they are legit. Which we have attempted in this thread. But you have so far, been reluctant. And that tells me all I need to know about the 'voice in your head' claiming to be Jesus.

 

[smaller]

Praise God, it must be true. God must have given you that word for me. I haven't had breakfast yet and was feeling a little nibblish. You just reminded me, I was in the store the other day, craving a little chocolate, when I happened upon some organic cocoa chia granola to try. Mmmm.

I had a "Word" from God a time or two. They were 'just for me' and my wife.

One time, I was sitting in the local charismatic assembly, and I heard a voice, just as clear as can be, in my mind, right out of nowhere, that said "Ichabod has been written over the threshold of this assembly." I actually looked behind me to see if somebody had said it. Nope. Nobody there.

As soon as we got home I scrambled for my Strongs. I didn't even know the term was in the Bible, or if I did, I had forgotten it, because there is only a couple citings if I recall. It generally translates as "the Spirit has departed."

I told my wife it was time to leave the group. She told me she had a similar Word that same morning. Her's was generally "don't let these people fool you."

So, that pretty much sealed it. Time to move on. We were both being "courted" for Elder seats, which we had so far declined. Just a feeling. Why? Because you got a "prime seat" in the house with a purple backed drapery on it. What do you call that? It's called "conviction" to not get suckered into being a pharisee. How do we know? From "as it is written."

Luke 20:46
Beware of the scribes, which desire to walk in long robes, and love greetings in the markets, and the highest seats in the synagogues, and the chief rooms at feasts;

No thanks. I'll pass. Thank you Jesus for informing us.

So, anyway, one of my 'on fire for Jesus' buddies who was a former heroin addict, (his wife, a former prostitute), showed up at work one day with his bible. Not really wanting a scene at my office, where there's 30 other people, and knowing him well enough and what he was going to do, I took him out to lunch. And yeah, he predictably BIBLE THUMPED me into potential hell for leaving the group. Kind of a yawner. I knew that was coming. I told him what I heard and left it at that.

About 6 months later the whole church erupted in scandal when it was found out both the pastor and his wife were having affairs with a couple other people in the church. They didn't last past that episode. Gone. I still have a lot of friends from then though.

Oh well. Must heard something right. I never did really trust that guy "from my heart" for some odd reason anyway. His stuff didn't quite RING TRUE to "as it is written." go figure.

 

[ezrider]

What does a scoffer look like?

What does a scoffer LOOK like? Why they would look like yourself and they would look like myself. They would LOOK like anyone else veiled in a body of death.

It's not what a scoffer looks like. A scoffer is known for what they DON'T believe in.


Know maybe you would be so kind as to respond to the questions I originally asked of you.

To what purpose have you chosen to share your shopping experience? How does this story serve to glorify Christ? Because to me it sounds like you are seeking your own glory at the Lords expense.

Why did you think it was necessary to share your Jesus told you to buy cereal story? OR if you must, WHY did Jesus tell you to share this story? What was its purpose?

How does it Glorify Christ?

How it is a testimony of WHO Christ IS?

How is this NOT you seeking your own glory, like the people Jesus made an example of when he said they pray openly to be seen of men? The rewards they sought were the praise of men. Which do you seek, the praise of men or the Praise of the Lord?

 

[Jim Parker]

WE DO BELIEVE JESUS CHRIST IS A PERSON, RIGHT?

Yes, Jesus is a "person" (God actually) but words printed on paper are not a person and the translation of the ancient Greek word "LOGOS" as "person" leaves much uncommunicated.
When we reduce it to the modern English meaning of "word" to describe the Son of God, the God the LOGOS, the king of kings and Lord of lords, we severely distort the second person of the Trinity.
When we take that distortion and use it to form doctrines, teachings and beliefs we create heresies and nonsense. It may "preach good" but it's still nonsense.

jus' sayin'

iakov the fool

 

[K2CHRIST]

I tried to convey this to you in simple terms earlier. We know for example, from my last post, that GOD IS LOVE. IF we are "following" the Spirit, the Spirit will LEAD us. How? In LOVE. Does this mean I need to hear a voice? Nope. Gods Language for this is unspoken. Love does not need "Words" in our head either.

The problem with saying "Nope" to the answer is that we are to preach the Word and that Jesus Christ leads people by His voice. In preaching Jesus Christ we are preaching a person who has a voice which produces words. God is spirit, so His words are spirit, but is those spiritual words that give us life. So by saying "Nope" to the question is simply saying you are not being LEAD by Jesus Christ!!

Luke 11:28 "But He said, "On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God and preserve it."

John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life, the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life. But there are some of you who do no believe.

John 10:27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and the follow Me. and I give eternal life to them....

I can say I am loving and try to be loving and think I have eternal life and even proclaim I am a Bible believing Christian, but it is written that His sheep hear His voice and it is those that hear the word of God and preserve it that are blessed. It doesn't say those who read it. But the words are words that are spoken to you, and those words are not ink on page but those words spoken to you are spirit, because they come from the Spirit of God! God is love, not you. Of us it is written, "If you being evil..." So are you really going to go back to leaning on your own understanding or are you going to seek our Lord Jesus Christ and listen to His words spoken to you? Still we know, because it is written, that some of us do not believe.

 

[smaller]

The problem with saying "Nope" to the answer is that we are to preach the Word and that Jesus Christ leads people by His voice. In preaching Jesus Christ we are preaching a person who has a voice which produces words. God is spirit, so His words are spirit, but is those spiritual words that give us life. So by saying "Nope" to the question is simply saying you are not being LEAD by Jesus Christ!!

You then fall into your own trap by claiming LOVE can only be expressed in a spoken arena. Vicious circle, ain't it?

Luke 11:28 "But He said, "On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God and preserve it."

John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life, the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life. But there are some of you who do no believe.

John 10:27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and the follow Me. and I give eternal life to them....

I can say I am loving and try to be loving and think I have eternal life and even proclaim I am a Bible believing Christian, but it is written that His sheep hear His voice and it is those that hear the word of God and preserve it that are blessed. It doesn't say those who read it. But the words are words that are spoken to you, and those words are not ink on page but those words spoken to you are spirit, because they come from the Spirit of God! God is love, not you. Of us it is written, "If you being evil..." So are you really going to go back to leaning on your own understanding or are you going to seek our Lord Jesus Christ and listen to His words spoken to you? Still we know, because it is written, that some of us do not believe.

And the merry go round you ride on STILL tries to pin Gods Own Recorded Words to near irrelevance in favor of voices in your head claiming to be Jesus. It's a nonsensical way to perceive the nature of the recorded Word.

I observed prior that when we read a "written fact" such as 1 John 4:8 NOBODY reads that fact as mere type on paper or claims that is the case other than people who prefer voices in their heads over written facts.

 

[K2CHRIST]

Yes, Jesus is a "person" (God actually) but words printed on paper are not a person and the translation of the ancient Greek word "LOGOS" as "person" leaves much uncommunicated.
When we reduce it to the modern English meaning of "word" to describe the Son of God, the God the LOGOS, the king of kings and Lord of lords, we severely distort the second person of the Trinity.
When we take that distortion and use it to form doctrines, teachings and beliefs we create heresies and nonsense. It may "preach good" but it's still nonsense.

jus' sayin'

iakov the fool

"Nonsense" pretty much describes some of the things written.

The Lord Jesus Christ is a person and we are not preaching that He can not be heard from. He said He would never leave us, and said He would send the Spirit which is the spirit of Christ. And so we preach that the word is near us, in our heart and on our lips, but some are saying it is on paper. Reading the words on paper doesn't save people, It didn't save the Pharisees or Sadducees who argued with Jesus. And there are those today that are putting their faith in the Scriptures instead of seeing the wisdom written in them which explains that salvation is by faith in Jesus Christ.

2 Tim 3:15... the sacred writing which are able to give you salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

They read, "faith, which is in Christ Jesus", but they say "Because the Bible tells me so", so do they know the person Jesus Christ. They don't listen to Him. We know that because they are not saying, and even argue with anyone saying, "Because my Lord Jesus Christ tells me so." Yeah, they like to through out the word heresies, because they always have, but they don't turn to the Lord and listen to Him and listen to what He says, they have made that clear.

The Spirit once told me, "Karl, we don't use the Lord to preach the Scriptures, we use the Scriptures to preach the Lord."

So what is heresy?

 

[K2CHRIST]

You then fall into your own trap by claiming LOVE can only be expressed in a spoken arena. Vicious circle, ain't it?


And the merry go round you ride on STILL tries to pin Gods Own Recorded Words to near irrelevance in favor of voices in your head claiming to be Jesus. It's a nonsensical way to perceive the nature of the recorded Word.

I observed prior that when we read a "written fact" such as 1 John 4:8 NOBODY reads that fact as mere type on paper or claims that is the case other than people who prefer voices in their heads over written facts.

You keep forgetting God is love. It is not something you express, is it someone you point people to, and you are not pointing people to God.

 

[smaller]

You keep forgetting God is love.

God is Love is a fact in writing and a fact of reality. No one says God is Love is only type on paper.

So, knowing this to be a fact, why then do you claim any Word of God written is not a likewise "active in reality" fact as well? That's my question to you.

No different than we see the term Jesus on paper. NOBODY says Jesus is only type on paper. We accept it as a reality fact, not just type on paper. With His Words, written a LIKEWISE present reality fact. Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4.

Do you even understand this?

If you do understand this quite simple premise, then your insistence that "type on paper" ISN'T God is pointless because NOBODY sees it that way but YOU.

It's just a cop out for you to follow the voice in your head claiming to be Jesus and toss aside His Own Written Reality Presentations in favor of imaginations in your head.

Yes, there IS a marked difference. When the voice in your head varies from written reality fact, you're mind is off the reservation.

So, knowing that we have living reality fact in writing, why favor a voice in your head? The methodology is severely flawed. And I suspect it stems from the voice in your head in any case.

 

[K2CHRIST]

prefer voices in their heads over written facts.

Oh by the way. I don't "prefer" listening to the Lord over the "written fact", I listening to the Lord because of the written facts!!

His sheep do hear His voice!!!!!

 

[smaller]

Oh by the way. I don't "prefer" listening to the Lord over the "written fact", I listening to the Lord because of the written facts!!

His sheep do hear His voice!!!!!

I'm thankful I don't need to "add" anymore Words of God than what we already have to engage, as it is written. Words in our heads are subservient to "written reality."

 

[K2CHRIST]

I'm thankful I don't need to "add" anymore Words of God than what we already have to engage, as it is written. Words in our heads are subservient to "written reality."

Where is it written "Words in our heads are subservient to "written reality", other than by you? I don't remember that is the Bible. So maybe even those saying, "Because the Bible tells me so" are not really following the Bible either?

Here is something written in the Bible.

Jn 5:46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me.

So why do they say, "Because the Bible tells me so", and not understand why I am saying, "Because my Lord Jesus Christ tells me so." Isn't it because they don't believe those who wrote the Bible?

 

[smaller]

Where is it written "Words in our heads are subservient to "written reality", other than by you?

Do you really need a voice in your head claiming to be God to tell you right from wrong, good from evil?

I don't remember that is the Bible. So maybe even those saying, "Because the Bible tells me so" are not really following the Bible either?

Does the "evil present" with any of us listen to Gods Words, let alone accurately? Romans 7:21.

Here is something written in the Bible.

Jn 5:46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me.

So why do they say, "Because the Bible tells me so", and not understand why I am saying, "Because my Lord Jesus Christ tells me so." Isn't it because they don't believe those who wrote the Bible?

Again, it's only you trying to draw a distinction between written reality of Gods Words and words in your head claiming to be God. And then going to far to say that Gods Words claim to listen to voices in our heads claiming to be God rather than understanding the Living Nature of His Written Words.

In short, you have a mess on your hands with your claims.

 

[Jim Parker]

The Spirit once told me, "Karl, we don't use the Lord to preach the Scriptures, we use the Scriptures to preach the Lord."

So what is heresy?

No.
That's excellent!

I'm just saying that there are people who say "The Lord told me..." when the Lord hadn't said a word to them.
For example:
A friend of mine went to a Bible College and attended a big church where the Carmen (www.carman.org/home.php) attended. Many of the young ladies of the church idolized the man.
One day, a young lady showed up at church in a wedding gown because "The Lord told her" that Carmen was going to marry her that day.
I've heard some absolutely stupid things that people said "The Lord" or "the Holy Spirit" had revealed to them so I'm very cautious when people start sharing what "The Lord told me."
Be a Berean. Check the "word of the Lord" against the scriptures. If the scriptures don't back it up, then it wasn't the Lord.

That's all...


Iakov the fool

 

[K2CHRIST]

No.
That's excellent!

I'm just saying that there are people who say "The Lord told me..." when the Lord hadn't said a word to them.
For example:
A friend of mine went to a Bible College and attended a big church where the Carmen (www.carman.org/home.php) attended. Many of the young ladies of the church idolized the man.
One day, a young lady showed up at church in a wedding gown because "The Lord told her" that Carmen was going to marry her that day.
I've heard some absolutely stupid things that people said "The Lord" or "the Holy Spirit" had revealed to them so I'm very cautious when people start sharing what "The Lord told me."
Be a Berean. Check the "word of the Lord" against the scriptures. If the scriptures don't back it up, then it wasn't the Lord.

That's all...


Iakov the fool

We are told about discernment of spirits and that we have battles with powers and dark forces of the world. I find very few Christian who apply 1 Jn 4:1-3 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God; every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God.

Now note that we are using this to test spirits! By we, it was written to "Beloved" which I think means believers. So what happens when we don't use discernment? We can get tricked. That happens. That happens to believers, or those written to by John whom he called "Beloved". Frankly, it does seem we do a very good job of testing the spirits and using discernment, but that does not mean we should stop listening with our spiritual ears. In fact, quite the opposite is true. We need to practice using our spiritual ears more, because it is also written, Heb 5:14.... who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil.

Both good and evil are in the spiritual realm around us, and we have a battle there. And we must remember we are all learning. So I don't expect that every "word" given to me by people saying it is from the Lord is right. And I also don't think that if they got is wrong they are not a Christian. We are learning.

Also there is something written about prophets being subject to prophets. Prophets will know this problem better than others simply because they have gone through this learning process. That is to say a prophets was probably put in that office because they practiced hearing with their spiritual ears more than most.

So we are not advising people to listen less with their spiritual ears but rather more. At our churches we need to encourage people to listen more to the Lord, but we also need them to be subject to prophets, which are those people who have listen to the Lord often and gotten good at discernment.

I once read a very nice book about how to handle the prophetic at church. I forget his name right now, but I believe he pastored a Vineyard Christian church. It was an excellent book and showed how that church encouraged people to listen to the Lord while also providing leadership in that area.

It seems to me that one of the common tricks the devils use to keep us from getting closer to the Lord is to trick someone with a false or bad word the stir up everyone else to condemn them. People make mistake. It's part of learning. And consider this. If any one person clearly understands they can hear from the Lord aren't they going to seeking the Lord anytime someone gives them a "Word from God"? I know I do.

So for me anyway, both a prophet or someone with false prophecy causes me to turn and start a conversation with the Lord. So prophets and false prophets work for good for those that love the Lord and seek His voice!! But for the person that doesn't seek the Lord it brings doubts and disbelief.

And what I find when I seek the Lord about words given to me are interesting. Most of the time, at least 95% of the time, the words given to me as a word from God turned out to indeed be a word from God. But only about half the time did I think it was when I first heard it!!
I got the full meaning and the explanation when I turned to the Lord and listened to what He had to say about it!! So if someone doesn't listen to the Lord are they really in any position to know if it is indeed from the Lord or not.

And consider this scripture closely, 2 Peter 1:20,21 But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a mater of one's own interpretation, for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.

If this is true of prophecy in Scripture it must also be true for all prophecy period!!! So if someone gives us a prophecy you must, as in must, take it the Lord for an explanation!! Yet I can't tell you the number of times I have heard people tell me how a word from the Lord was wrong without every talking to the Lord about it!

So we shouldn't be actually saying, " If the scriptures don't back it up, then it wasn't the Lord", but we should be saying, "If the Lord doesn't back it up it wasn't from the Lord." Again we are saying, "Because the Bible tells me so", instead of saying "Because the Lord tells me so."

Look the Lord can explain what He is trying to get across to you, but only if you listen to Him. The Scriptures are valuable in making sure you are hearing from the Lord. They explain how to test the spirits, they tell you that by practice listening with your spiritual ears you get better at discerning good from evil. And of course they are good for teaching, reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness. So if I hear something that does not seem to match up with the Scriptures I am certainly going to start testing the spirit to make sure it is the Spirit of God. The Spirit of God always makes sense, but I might not understand when I first hear from Him. He does and says wise things, and gives me understanding of them. But I only get that if I listen to Him!! I don't get that if I think I know what the prophecy (both that in the Scriptures and that given to me) means so I don't seek the voice of the Lord.

Do we trust God???

I really want to know. Because if we truly trust God don't you think we would be seeking His voice?

 

[daninthelionsden]

No.
That's excellent!

I'm just saying that there are people who say "The Lord told me..." when the Lord hadn't said a word to them.
For example:
A friend of mine went to a Bible College and attended a big church where the Carmen (www.carman.org/home.php) attended. Many of the young ladies of the church idolized the man.
One day, a young lady showed up at church in a wedding gown because "The Lord told her" that Carmen was going to marry her that day.
I've heard some absolutely stupid things that people said "The Lord" or "the Holy Spirit" had revealed to them so I'm very cautious when people start sharing what "The Lord told me."
Be a Berean. Check the "word of the Lord" against the scriptures. If the scriptures don't back it up, then it wasn't the Lord.

That's all...
AMEN

Iakov the fool

 

[Jim Parker]

Do we trust God???

I really want to know. Because if we truly trust God don't you think we would be seeking His voice?

Good post.
It seems to me that many believers (real ones) do not spend the time in prayer necessary to be able to properly discern the spirits and to distinguish between the Lord's voice and their own internal voice saying what they want the Lord to say. (Like: "Carmen's going to marry me today!)

The church was given the "five-fold ministry" of "apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; that we should no longer be children,..." (Eph 4:11-14a NKJV) But it seems to me, from my experience, that many are content to stay at the toddler stage and that there are many pastors who like it that way.

The mature Christian who has come to "the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ" hears the Lord's voice.


iakov the fool
(beaucoup dien cai dau)



DISCLAIMER: By reading the words posted above, you have made a free will choice to expose yourself to the rantings of iakov the fool. The poster assumes no responsibility for any temporary, permanent or otherwise annoying manifestations of cognitive dysfunction that, in any manner, may allegedly be related to the reader’s deliberate act by which he/she has knowingly allowed the above rantings to enter into his/her consciousness. No warrantee is expressed or implied. Individual mileage may vary. And, no, I don't want to hear about it. No sniveling! Enjoy the rest of your life here and the eternal one to come.

 

[daninthelionsden]

Good post.
It seems to me that many believers (real ones) do not spend the time in prayer necessary to be able to properly discern the spirits and to distinguish between the Lord's voice and their own internal voice saying what they want the Lord to say. (Like: "Carmen's going to marry me today!)

The church was given the "five-fold ministry" of "apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; that we should no longer be children,..." (Eph 4:11-14a NKJV) But it seems to me, from my experience, that many are content to stay at the toddler stage and that there are many pastors who like it that way.

The mature Christian who has come to "the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ" hears the Lord's voice.


iakov the fool
(beaucoup dien cai dau)



DISCLAIMER: By reading the words posted above, you have made a free will choice to expose yourself to the rantings of iakov the fool. The poster assumes no responsibility for any temporary, permanent or otherwise annoying manifestations of cognitive dysfunction that, in any manner, may allegedly be related to the reader’s deliberate act by which he/she has knowingly allowed the above rantings to enter into his/her consciousness. No warrantee is expressed or implied. Individual mileage may vary. And, no, I don't want to hear about it. No sniveling! Enjoy the rest of your life here and the eternal one to come.

I only agree with this when the Word is used as the gold standard by which all is judged as whether to be from God. Too much chance to slide into cultish behavior otherwise.

 

[K2CHRIST]

I only agree with this when the Word is used as the gold standard by which all is judged as whether to be from God. Too much chance to slide into cultish behavior otherwise.

I don't want to get too much into semantics, but it should be noted that "The Word of God" is the name for Jesus Christ, according the Bible. (Rev 19:13) Like I see sooooo very often, we use "the Word' to mean the Scriptures. That is how it is used in the quote above. I'm ok with it being used like that, but I think it confuses people when we use "the Word' for the Scriptures and the Scriptures use "the Word' for Jesus Christ, the One who has been given all things, including the words of God. And He, as The Word of God, wants to and can speak to us!

So this brings up the question of whether Jesus Christ or the Scriptures are best termed "the gold standard". The Scriptures were inspired by God, and people that knew and heard from Christ better than us wrote them, and so it should be apparent that we can use them to help us discern. But those people writing them were trying to lead you to the person of Jesus Christ, so that you also would hear from Him. So how good is our discernment if we didn't discern that with our great understanding?

When we say "Because the Bible tells me so", we are declaring we did not discern the purpose of the writers of the Scriptures, unless of course we are using that statement as a reason for listening to the Lord, like the Bible tells us to. And that is kind of what is happening when we start calling the Scriptures 'The Word" instead of Jesus Christ "The Word". We are replacing Jesus Christ with the Scriptures.

We start following the rules (the Law) laid down in the Scriptures instead of seeking the voice of the Lord for instruction. The Galatians were a classic example of a church doing that. But Paul also covered the problem with the Romans. And this problem is covered in Hebrews also. And this is the exact problem Jesus Himself covered with the Jews. So if it is a problem that people have, and it clearly it, then we have to ask ourselves if we are not having the same problem?

Instead of going to Jesus Christ and talking to Him and listening to what He has to say to us, are we searching the Scriptures because we think in them we have eternal life? Which is truly the "Gold" we are looking for. Is it the personal relationship with the Lord our God, or the Book that those who indeed had a personal relationship with Him wrote? Which "Word of God" are we really looking to? Are we searching the Scriptures because we think that in them we have eternal life, or are we seeking the voice of the Teacher who uses the Book to show us things?

I know the Lord Jesus Christ. We talk about all sorts of things. The first words I heard Him tell me were "Read Your Bible", and He likes talking to me about the Bible, but He is not the Bible, He is the One that talks to Me through His spirit which is the Spirit of God. So for me, He and what He personally tells me is gold. It's not that I don't appreciate what He told those who wrote the Bible, nor that I don't realize that they heard from Him better than I do, and it is certainly not that I am thinking that there is great value in reading what they wrote, but they and those writings are not the One that talks to me.

And because of that I say, "Because the Lord Jesus Christ told me so".

He told me which church to go to. I wanted a smaller Charismatic church, but He wanted me at the bigger Charismatic church. We talked about it. I told Him that I thought I could get to know people more in the smaller church. I told Him that I felt those people in the smaller Charismatic church in general knew Him better than those in the bigger church. He told me that I would get to know people in the bigger church. He told me that He needed me there and had work for me to do there. And part of that work was helping people get to know Him better. I reasoned with Him and did what He said. He reasoning is better than mine.

Because His reasoning is better than ours, I believe He and His words personally spoken to me are the "gold", and listening to them the 'standard' we should all live by. But some are searching the Scriptures thinking in them they have eternal life!!! I read the Scripture because He, "The Word of God", told me to read them and He likes to talk to me about them.


Jn I In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God.

That does not mean the Scriptures were God. We should stop thinking they are.

Gen 15:1 After these things the word of the Lord came to Abram in a vision, saying...

The Bible didn't come and say things to Abram, the person whose name is called the Word of God did.

Gen 15:6 Then he believed in the Lord; and He reckoned it to him as righteousness.

So do you believe in the Lord when He talks to you?

Exo 9: 21 but he who paid no regard to the word of the LORD left his servants and his livestock in the field.

None of the Scriptures had been written at the point. This written recorded of the event does not mean you shouldn't leave your servants and livestock in the field. It means we need to regard the words the Lord speaks to us!! It is not about what was spoken them, but about us finding out what He has to say to us!!

and we can go on about this:

Num 3:16 So Moses numbered them according to the word of the LORD, just as he had been commanded.

You don't need to number the people because it is written in the Scriptures. But if the Lord personally tell you to, number them. It is not "because the Bible tells me so", it is "Because the Lord tells you so."

Isaiah 1:2 Listen, O heavens, and hear, O earth; For the Lord speaks

The writing of Moses were available at this time, but the people were not listening to the Lord who speaks!!

Isaiah 1:3 An ox knows its owner, and a donkey its master's manager, But Israel does not know, My people do not understand.

Do you know your owner? If you know Him, you know He speaks! You know how important His words personally spoken to you are. Because He told me to go the bigger church He was able to put me in a healing ministry where I got to know the people there. He was able to also send me out on hospital visits because that bigger church had that ministry also. The smaller church did not. The bigger church was closer to me. And it had other advantages also. My 27 year old daughter like the bigger church, but probably would have not gone with me to the smaller church.

So I ask. What is the gold you are looking for. Is it the holy and sacred writings, or is it a personal relationship with the One the writings tell you about. For you, is it that the Lord speaks, or that the Lord spoke? Do you do things because the Bible says, or because you personal know the One whose name is called "The Word of God"??

Yeah, the Bible is useful to help with discernment, but if you don't know the Lord who speaks then you are just like those people Isaiah wrote to!!! And you missed it, though you read it!!

And those that really do listen to Him try and tell people that the Lord speaks. He is the great I Am, not the great has been. We need to use discernment, but your discernment is horrible if you don't know He speaks. And if you are thinking what He said to others is like God, try listening to what He will say to you. That can change your life. Really knowing Him does that.

Heb 5:11 Concerning him we have much to say, and it is hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing. For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you have need again for someone to teach you the elementary principles of God...

I have gone on and one, and it is hard to explain, because God's people are just like they have always been. They don't practicing hearing by faith. They substitute knowing the Scriptures for knowing the Lord. They wind up doing works according to the rules written in the Bible instead of practicing seeking the voice of their God for instructions. So they say, "Because the Bible tells me so," instead of saying, "Because Jesus Christ my Lord and savior tells me so." They doubt the Lord speaks and their hearing has become dull. And it show by what they say and write. What He said to others in the past has become their gold, because they don't know how awesome it is to walk and talk with Him today. They profoundly and boldly state the Scriptures are the Word of God, because they don't know Him as the Word of God.

So "Listen, O heavens, and hear, O earth; For the Lord speaks," is as important for us to remember today as it has ever been. And so is "My people do not understand"

Anyway, I tried to explain. Over and over I tried to explain. At some point I have to get on with other things. God Bless

 

[smaller]

Anyway, I tried to explain. Over and over I tried to explain. At some point I have to get on with other things. God Bless

Your position employs pretzel logic, using written Word to point people away from "as it is written" in favor of a voice in the mind.

"As it is written" makes no such advisement, and if anything, provides written "testable" evidence NOT to trust voices in our heads over "as it is written."

So the repeated refrain you employ is that there is "a difference" between "as it is written" and supposed "word in head" which difference is not substantiated.

Your claims amount to this: "As it is written" IS NOT SUFFICIENT.

Or, another angle your positions employ is: The Spirit is DIFFERENT from "as it is written." Or the supposed God in our heads is NOT the same God of His Own "as it is written." Or "as it is written" is dead, and we must now resort to the God in our heads, in it's stead.

None of those postures are workable.

The Word, as it is written and the Spirit are and always will be in Perfect Accord.

The Holy Ghost terms it, thusly:

Acts 7:38
This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

The questions or walking in Light of these things is more of a question of HOW are they lively? And these will be according the patterns, set and recorded.

Hebrews 5:12
For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

When we engage "as it is written" we are engaging LIVING PRINCIPLES. Went through this exercise with you earlier. We know, from as it is written, that GOD IS LOVE.

No one, and I mean NO ONE, takes that "as it is written" to be mere word on paper, but a PRINCIPLE. A Living Principle. Do we need then MORE Living Principle to see/walk in that reality? No. There is no purpose for vain repetitions of

PRINCIPLES.

"noun: principle; plural noun: principles
1.
a fundamental truth or proposition that serves as the foundation for a system of belief or behavior or for a chain of reasoning.

Does "Word in our head" need to say this principle, that God Is Love? If it does, it will speak no differently than "as it is written."

There are many such "principles" deployed in the "as it is written" presentations.

I've exampled a "living oracle" or "living principle" to you prior. It's presented by Paul in Romans 7, principally in Romans 7:7-13.

Do we "test" the principle for "active validity?" Do we "submit" to the conclusions of the Lively Oracles in this matter? These are the matters we walk in, to see who is in line with Lively Oracles and who is talking out of their MIND, apart from Living Principle Reality.

Ultimately, all Christian theological discussion and Christian LIFE revolves around "precepts." And those, from "as it is written."

A Divine Precept, still quite 'ACTIVE' to this day, would be this for example, which PRECEPT is also given by the Apostles:

Daniel 9:5
We have sinned, and have committed iniquity, and have done wickedly, and have rebelled, even by departing from thy precepts and from thy judgments

My inclinations in these things is this, when I encounter the "God Speaks to me" folk I ask them, specifically, if they submit to this precept or principle? It's a fair question. If they do submit to the precept or principle, they are not as apt to trust the Word in their heads, IF they have accepted the principle. They will know there is a reason to question the 'GOD IN THEIR HEAD' if said God doesn't tell them the facts, as it is written. The precept still applies, and is LIVELY.

1 Peter 4:11
If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

IF God Is Speaking in our heads, HE WILL SPEAK in accordance with Divine Cadence. The Principles or Precepts of His Cadence are set, "as it is written." And by these we 'recognize' whether such voices in our heads speak truthfully, OR NOT.