Jim Parker
Member
Absolutely.
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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'The Bible tells me so' is wrong
- Thread starter OzSpen
- Start date
Mike
Member
Where do you see this as the primary reason the authors wrote what they wrote?
2 Timothy 3:16 lists the reasons, and that is not among them.
"All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness"
They were/are God's words. He speaks to us in His Word. Their purpose is not to teach us to go beyond them and hear Him talk to us. His instruction is therein. They aren't clues to get us to the real instruction.
Jim Parker
Member
ezrider
Member
Where do you see this as the primary reason the authors wrote what they wrote?
2 Timothy 3:16 lists the reasons, and that is not among them.
"All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness"
They were/are God's words. He speaks to us in His Word. Their purpose is not to teach us to go beyond them and hear Him talk to us. His instruction is therein. They aren't clues to get us to the real instruction.
I will agree with you up to a point. But that point stops when you say the pupose of the scriptures was to teach us NOT to go beyond them and listen to and hear the Spirit of the Lord speaks to us. Now based upon the discussion that has been going on in this thread, maybe we really don't disagree that much at all, I just am not comfortable with the term "talk" because to me it comes with the implication of sound and voice.
But, in a way they really are clues to get us to real instruction, the instruction that comes from the Spirit of God Himself, the speaks to our hearts and mind. But many do not even follow the instructions that will lead them into the Faith of Christ. Many try and follow Moses and the printed word, but if they had heard Moses, if they would have heard the instruction in those printed words, then they would have humbled themselves, so that they might grow in the Grace of the Lord and knowledge of the HIS Righteousness. We are to be created in the image of Christ. But by the words of the book, many are formed in the image of the accuser.
There are many voices within the words of the scriptures, it is filled with a cloud of witnesses. I have heard Abraham, I have heard Joseph. I heard Moses, and Elijah, Isaiah and Jeremiah, Ezekiel and Daniel. I have listened the Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. I have listened to Peter and to Paul. I have heard JESUS. I have listened to their testimonies and their witness. I follow after the Spirit of Christ, who brings into remeberance the WORDS of JESUS that I have read from the Scripture. The Holy Spirit does not need to "recall" the words as I am reading them, though He may recall something else related.
Yes, the scriptures are filled with many voices, and we should know how to listen and discern between those voices. I am often reminded of the scripture when the disciples asked Jesus if he would call down fire from Heaven as Elijah did, and Jesus rebuked them saying. KNOW YOU NOT WHAT SPIRIT YOU ARE OF?
The point is, the Words of the Bible are only meant to bring you TO faith in Christ, not to give you the FAITH of CHRIST. The Bible is the knowldge of good and evil. It is the knowledge of sin and Death. The Bible offers the hope of salvation, but the Bible CAN NOT deliver the PROMISE of that salvation.
The Lord has chosen that His Glory and His Righteousness would only be revealed by FAITH. The righteousness of God is not made known by the knowledge of Sin. The Lord has already Judged to world according to Sin so that by Faith you might seek the knowldege of the Lord's Righteouness.
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Mike
Member
I'm just saying scripture is the sufficient word of God. It's not merely bread crumbs He's left us to lead us to hear His voice where His real message is. Romans 10:17 says faith comes by hearing his Word, and that Word is His Word that He's given us. It cheapens His Word to say that it is in effect "bread crumbs".
ezrider
Member
I would agree. They are NOT bread crumbs.
BUT, I accept by Faith that many of those words remain hidden. Hidden in plain sight. Hidden, just as the scriptures declared them to be.
JohnDB
Member
One of the things that I constantly find is that when reading the scriptures there are small passages, clearly stated, saying volumes, and often overlooked all at the same time.
An example is the 25 years Sampson was a faithful Judge. Everyone pays attention to the mighty deeds and his involvement with the bad women...but the 25 years goes unnoticed.
The "hidden" things of scripture are plainly stated. Just not obvious.
smaller
Member
The "as it is written" narrative also has just as much of an unseen narrative. It's a basic lesson. There are natural eyes, and there are Spiritual eyes.
Paul gives us an example with a single LAW of the O.T. in 1 Cor. 9:9-10, taking quite an obscure law of the O.T. and turns that LAW into a completely different statement of spiritual fact.
So, yes, there is a hidden narrative, that only the Spirit can 'vivify' as to "how" Paul got there, to that "real" analysis of that LAW.
AND, if Paul applied in that direction to a single obscure LAW, then by rights, ALL LAW is to be handled the same way. And this Paul shows us as well, in Romans 7:14 for example or in Gal. 4. Same thing.
If we want the scriptures to open to our understanding, we have to ASK the Holy Spirit, for them to be opened.
For this to transpire, there are certain milestones that have to be met by the reader/viewer. Without hitting certain facts of scripture, accepting them personally, the DOOR to understanding will remain LOCKED FIRMLY, even when it's in plain sight.
For example, in Romans 7:14, knowing that the law is spiritual, Paul gives us another fact, right there in vs. 14, that we MUST bow to, personally, and accept, in understanding. IF we don't bow and accept we'll see exactly NOTHING, as the Spirit demands NOTHING to be given to liars and posers. Spiritual understanding is quite purposefully put behind a CLOSED DOOR. And it is Purposefully HIDDEN to the natural man. Again, as shown by Paul in 1 Cor. 2:14.
It's one of the reasons the 'natural man' abandons 'AS IT IS WRITTEN' because they don't "get it" and "WON'T" get it.
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Jim Parker
Member
The scripture IS the "real instruction".
I can depend 100% on what the scripture says; I can bet my eternal life on what the scripture says.
What you "hear"...... not so much.
No thanks.
I'll stick with what I know God said rather than what you think you "heard" God say.
2Ti 3:16-17 (NKJV) All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and i
s profitable for doctrine,
for reproof,
for correction,
for instruction in righteousness,
that the man of God may be complete,
thoroughly equipped for every good work.
Was there something missing from that list that you need to get a special word from God?
But, on the other hand, the Holy Spirit does "speak to us." My experience is it's more along the lines of discerning the best choice of action or sometimes a revelation about a circumstance.
For that kind of stuff, I agree.
iakov the fool
(beaucoup dien cai dau)
DISCLAIMER: By reading the words posted above, you have made a free will choice to expose yourself to the rantings of iakov the fool. The poster assumes no responsibility for any temporary, permanent or otherwise annoying manifestations of cognitive dysfunction that, in any manner, may allegedly be related to the reader’s deliberate act by which he/she has knowingly allowed the above rantings to enter into his/her consciousness. No warrantee is expressed or implied. Individual mileage may vary. And, no, I don't want to hear about it. No sniveling! Enjoy the rest of your life here and the eternal one to come.
Mike
Member
Jim Parker you said much better what I was attempting to express. Joseph Smith allegedly received additional and quite different instruction to that of scripture, and look what came of that; a full blown cult of untruth. I do not believe God left anything unsaid in His Word.
ezrider
Member
NO, the scripture is the text book, it provides us with lessons and examples to learn from. And just like a college graduate takes the instruction he has learned, he goes and applies that instruction in the real world. It is our experience walking in the world that is the "real instruction" and how we apply the lessons of the scriptures to ourselves. Do we love our neighbor as our self? Are we loving our enemy?
Take no thought for tomorrow, for the evil of the day is sufficient for itself.
You will find someday, that its time to put the text book down, and to follow instruction where it counts. Though it seems those who "teach" have needs of the text book, but let it not be said, that those who teach do so because they have failed in applying those instruction to themselves as they walk in the world. Oh, I sounds like I just describe a Pharisee .
Trust me, you really don't want to be making that kind of bet. Especially if is in what the scriptures say. I'm sorry to inform you, but the Bible provide you with salvation. The Bible will not give you eternal life. The Bible GUARANTEES you the certainty of ONE thing and one thing only: DEATH
2 Peter 3:13-18
Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
I am NOT the author of this OP. I have never said God has given me some special word of knowledge to go buy cereal, or any other such thing; I find that to be nonsense. Now as to what I have heard, well to be quite frank, I never asked you to listen to what I had to say, nor have I shared with you anything that I have "heard".
But I am certain of one thing. Many, let me repeat that for you, many there be in that day that say unto me, Lord, Lord... And I shall say unto them depart from me you workers of iniquity, for I never knew you. And, you don't have to take "my" word for it. It is in the written in the scriptures: You can take God's Word for it. I'm sure you know how to look it up.
ezrider
Member
So for all the bluster, and the I don't care what you hear, and no thanks........ But in the end, you found a way to agree.
So why is our natural inclination to first disagree with what we hear from someone, essentially closing our ears to any communication?
But as a child of God who walks after the Spirit of Christ who dwells within them, then shouldn't we seek to overcome those impulses, and instead look for the things that can be agreed upon? To look first for the unity of the brethren?
BUT, we also do know from the scriptures that there are some that are crept in unawares, that seek to sow disunity and discord among the brethren.
ezrider
Member
Yes Oz, I have read them. But they tell me to trust in the Spirit of Christ, not in the Bible, not in the Law.
Which of the laws found in the scriptures is a Law unto LIFE?
Haven't you read Rom 7:10?
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Those verses tell you nothing of that sort. Please quit giving me your cliche answers.
Where is this information found about eternal life and how to get it? In the Scriptures!
Oz
Jim Parker
Member
But God did put prophets in the Church (Eph 4:11) who spoke from God, not to add to His word but to do what prophets have always done; admonish, encourage, rebuke and, every once in a while, predict. (Act 11:27; 13:1; 15:32; Act 21:9) None of it becomes a basis for doctrine.
The problem arises when false prophets get elevated to positions of authority as with Ellen G. White (SDAs) and Charles T. Russell. (JWs)
iakov the fool
(beaucoup dien cai dau)
DISCLAIMER: By reading the words posted above, you have made a free will choice to expose yourself to the rantings of iakov the fool. The poster assumes no responsibility for any temporary, permanent or otherwise annoying manifestations of cognitive dysfunction that, in any manner, may allegedly be related to the reader’s deliberate act by which he/she has knowingly allowed the above rantings to enter into his/her consciousness. No warrantee is expressed or implied. Individual mileage may vary. And, no, I don't want to hear about it. No sniveling! Enjoy the rest of your life here and the eternal one to come.
Jim Parker
Member
The examples you give are accurate.
The conclusion you draw is not. It's a bit confused because you have equated lessons and application; you've made them the same experience.
The Scriptures and the classroom/text books are the lessons. That is the instruction.
What we "learn" in the "real world" is how to apply the lessons we learned. That is the application.
We practice applying what we learned from the lessons until we become expert at applying those lessons to life.
1Ti 4:15 (RSV) Practice these duties, devote yourself to them, so that all may see your progress.
Lessons and application are two different things.
iakov the fool
(beaucoup dien cai dau)
DISCLAIMER: By reading the words posted above, you have made a free will choice to expose yourself to the rantings of iakov the fool. The poster assumes no responsibility for any temporary, permanent or otherwise annoying manifestations of cognitive dysfunction that, in any manner, may allegedly be related to the reader’s deliberate act by which he/she has knowingly allowed the above rantings to enter into his/her consciousness. No warrantee is expressed or implied. Individual mileage may vary. And, no, I don't want to hear about it. No sniveling! Enjoy the rest of your life here and the eternal one to come.
Jim Parker
Member
Not quite.
If I understand you correctly, your point is that the Scriptures are kind of a starting point but what we personally "hear" from God is the important part.
I am 100% opposed to such an understanding as it is the starting point from which far too many frauds and charlatans founded their cults and heretical religions.
The scriptures are the final word and the best expositors of the scriptures are the apostolic fathers and their disciples.
That does not preclude anyone from seeking the Lord's will in their life.
It just precludes "fixing" doctrines that "the Lord just told them were wrong." (Like Joseph Smith)
iakov the fool
(beaucoup dien cai dau)
DISCLAIMER: By reading the words posted above, you have made a free will choice to expose yourself to the rantings of iakov the fool. The poster assumes no responsibility for any temporary, permanent or otherwise annoying manifestations of cognitive dysfunction that, in any manner, may allegedly be related to the reader’s deliberate act by which he/she has knowingly allowed the above rantings to enter into his/her consciousness. No warrantee is expressed or implied. Individual mileage may vary. And, no, I don't want to hear about it. No sniveling! Enjoy the rest of your life here and the eternal one to come.
smaller
Member
Romans 7:10 says exactly what you say it doesn't say.
We know the law is spiritual. Romans 7:14. We also know there are two separate and distinct sights available from the law. A natural sight and a spiritual sight, from the example of Paul in 1 Cor. 9:9-10, the spiritual sight applicable to all of us, just as Paul notes.
Proverbs 6:23
For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life:
No different reproof than Paul directs here:
2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
The difficulties always arise when we think that we personally have no basis/cause for reproof/correction, as that is never the case.
The law exposes and condemns sin. That's what it's supposed to do. Whether we acknowledge it does so or not will not stop it's working and what it does.
The law maintains a very active adversarial relationship with sin indwelling the flesh/evil present with us, and does so whether we agree that it does or not. Romans 7:7-13, Romans 7:17-21, 1 Cor. 15:56, Gal. 5:17, Heb. 4:12, Heb. 10:22.
Indwelling sin and evil present with us ALWAYS leads the natural person away from the law(s) and rejects the discourses of the law. It's predictable as rain.