'The Bible tells me so' is wrong

[ezrider]

That was a message from God to Peter, John and James to listen to Jesus whop was physically standing right in front of them.
It was not a message to the entire church for ever to listen to someone is not physically standing in front of us.

So now we can conveniently say that this scripture wasn't for me. It was a message to someone else that you take no thought of nor witness too!

That tells us to listen to God's prophets, not to the voice of Christi you think you hear in your head.

Sorry, that didn't just tell us to listen to God's prophets. That tells us to listen The Prophet of God. His words were quite distinct from the others, for I never heard him say "thus saith the Lord." You can find his words printed in the gospels: They would be the one's in RED.

That's not talking about hearing voices.
That's Jesus telling his disciples ( not the entire church for ever) that the Holy Spirit would bring all things that He (Jesus) told them to remembrance and teach them.
IF that were the case for the whole church for all time then we would all be in agreement instead of having tens of thousands of denominations, sects, independent churches, etc. who are NOT in agreement. (Unless the Holy Spirit tells different people different "truth.")

Wow, do you even hear yourself? If that were the case? Imagine that, the unity of the brethren found in Christ.

So are you saying the Holy Spirit was only for the disciples?

Jesus was talking to JEws who didn't accept Him for who he was. He said His sheep (who were alive then) knew His voice (when He spoke AT THAT TIME.)
You have to really twist the scriptures to force any of those to support your idea of hearing Jesus' voice.
Maybe you actually do.
Maybe you have a prophetic gift.
But not everyone does.

Again, conveniently selecting which scriptures should speak to you and which ones are for someone else. Oh, I'm sorry, did I say the words speak to you?

 

[ezrider]

Deuteronomy 18:18-19
I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

That tells us to listen to God's prophets, not to the voice of Christi you think you hear in your head.

When Jesus said had you believe Moses, you would have believed me, for he wrote of me. That is Jesus speaking of Deuteronomy 18:18-19. Jesus is that Prophet whom Moses spoke of.

Now while I can not speak to the voices he hears or the instructions that K2CHRIST thinks he receives, I can tell you of the voice that speaks to my heart and mind. You see, I was not born 2000 years ago to walk the earth at the same time as the disciples that I might have heard the audible words spoken by the Son of Man known as Jesus. The disciples and later Apostles were special in that they were bear witness to those words, that we who live according to faith might believe in them.

But when I pick up the scriptures and read the gospels, when I read the red letters, I am hearing the voice of Jesus in my mind. I hear him speak those to words into my conscience and mind, and yet I hear no audible voice. For his words are Spirit, and when I hear His Words I am listening to His Spirit. When I read the scriptures, I hear the spirit of Moses, I hear the spirit of Elijah, and I hear the spirit of Christ. I have heard the Father tell me to listen to His Son. I have heard both Moses and Elijah tell me to follow the Spirit of Christ. And so by faith, I follow after the voice of Spirit of Christ who dwells within me.

 

[brother Paul]

And what of John 10 when the Lord tells us "My sheep will hear my voice"...can they? Do they?Now I would agree that anyone can believe a word in their head but a child of God should know. Such a voice, if it is the Lord, would never say something or direct us in any way contrary to the written word. Surely the Lord Himself warns us that lying prophets claim "thus the Lord says" when He has not spoken! For example in Ezekiel 13:7 He says to them "Have ye not seen a vain vision, and have ye not spoken a lying divination, whereas ye say, The LORD saith it; albeit I have not spoken?" Or Jeremiah 23 when He says "Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD."

Spirit or letter? Hmmm? How on earth did generations of those who could not read ever walk with God? Certainly on occasion the Lord speaks to us in the Spirit, but we must be very careful and responsible (having the written word to compare with) to be sure it is what the Lord would say and not presume to have heard, or believe every one called "a prophet" by popular men and women...

 

[ezra]

Yes, I love it. The Bible is not a person but rather a book, so it can't think and take action. God the Father, Son, and Spirit can think and take action. That is why we don't say because the Bible tells me so, but rather because the Lord our God tells me so. We must listen to Him, and especially when we read and study the Bible.

Nice post GodsVoice

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God isliving and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.. the word scripture is anointed and does speak to us through the holy spirit
2 Timothy 3:16New International Version (NIV)
16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, the Bible is part of the person through the scriptures

 

[Free]

So now we can conveniently say that this scripture wasn't for me. It was a message to someone else that you take no thought of nor witness too!

Matt. 17:1-6 clearly was spoken only to the three that were present: Peter, James, and John.

Wow, do you even hear yourself? If that were the case? Imagine that, the unity of the brethren found in Christ.

So are you saying the Holy Spirit was only for the disciples?

He is quite correct; John 14:25-26 is only for the disciples. Look at the wording: "and bring to remembrance all that I have said to you." That only makes sense if Jesus is talking specifically to the disciples. Jesus was about to be crucified and taken away from them. It was of the utmost importance that they remember precisely all that Jesus taught them during his three years of ministry, as the disciples/Apostles were the ones laying the foundation of the Church. The result of which is the NT for the rest of us.

 

[ezrider]

Matt. 17:1-6 clearly was spoken only to the three that were present: Peter, James, and John.


He is quite correct; John 14:25-26 is only for the disciples. Look at the wording: "and bring to remembrance all that I have said to you." That only makes sense if Jesus is talking specifically to the disciples. Jesus was about to be crucified and taken away from them. It was of the utmost importance that they remember precisely all that Jesus taught them during his three years of ministry, as the disciples/Apostles were the ones laying the foundation of the Church. The result of which is the NT for the rest of us.

And there you have it folks. The Words of Jesus were NOT meant for YOU. The Words of Jesus were ONLY MEANT FOR THE DISCIPLES. I guess we can all just close up the Bible, because none of it was meant for me. The Holy Spirit was only given to the disciples so they could remember the words Jesus taught them. Yeah, I got it. Your religion is in vain!

 

[Free]

And there you have it folks. The Words of Jesus were NOT meant for YOU. The Words of Jesus were ONLY MEANT FOR THE DISCIPLES. I guess we can all just close up the Bible, because none of it was meant for me. The Holy Spirit was only given to the disciples so they could remember the words Jesus taught them. Yeah, I got it. Your religion is in vain!

Where did I say that "the words of Jesus were only meant for the disciples" in such a way that one could conclude "none of it was meant for [us]"? I didn't; not even close. Nor did what I say mean that "the Holy Spirit was only given to the disciples". Whatever is driving your conclusions I do not know, as they most certainly are not at all based on what I said.

I clearly stated that something mentioned in a specific passage was meant only for the disciples, as the context clearly shows. And that was for our benefit, as I pointed out.

 

[smaller]

Matt. 17:1-6 clearly was spoken only to the three that were present: Peter, James, and John.

Then only Peter, James and John need to listen to Jesus?

I don't know how anyone could take such a claim seriously.

Mark 9:7
And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.

If we are paying attentions to the account, Jesus appeared "talking with" with Moses and Elias (the Law and the Prophet).

There was no way for any of these men present to recognize them by their appearances, but they DID recognize who they were from what? Yep. Their "talking."

And what was the effect of that talking? It put them to sleep. And this, according to a principle that is laid out in the scriptures. That after the law is delivered, man is put to sleep. It is a spiritual slumber. They can not see or hear. It is first shown with Adam in the Garden, and with many of the O.T. prophets as well. They are, with first exposures, "immobilized." There are other examples of this in the scriptures, Gen. 15:12 or . And this "principle" is shown with these 3.

Isaiah 29:10
For the Lord hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered.

And, when they WOKE UP, they saw, only Jesus, as we are meant to see and hear from the Law and the prophets, speaking.

Not all is as it appears to readers on the surface. And yes, those Words of God, listen to HIM, do also apply to US.

He is quite correct; John 14:25-26 is only for the disciples.

He is quite incorrect. But according to him the only people who can really understand are those who have been edumacated into his particular sect, which position I reject as false.

Every Word of God is meant for YOU and I according to Jesus. Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4. Now I know you reject that, but I prefer to "listen to Him."

Look at the wording: "and bring to remembrance all that I have said to you." That only makes sense if Jesus is talking specifically to the disciples.

Again, not. We too are to be in remembrance of ALL that the Word, the law, the prophets and the Apostles have spoken. And yes, the Holy Spirit will bring His Words to remembrance with us, for us and in our behalves.

2 Peter 3:2
That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:

This notion that The Word of God is only a trickle down posture from God in Christ to some handful of priests in order for them to let us know what it really means is patent falsehood. All believers are fully meant to know EVERY WORD of God. Passing the baton off to some other person's intellect is not the order of God.

Gal. 6:
4 But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.

Romans 14:5
One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

If some person is fully persuaded, in their own mind, to worship or not on a certain day or to not eat pork, it is NO BUSINESS of mine. It's their mind.

Jesus was about to be crucified and taken away from them. It was of the utmost importance that they remember precisely all that Jesus taught them during his three years of ministry, as the disciples/Apostles were the ones laying the foundation of the Church. The result of which is the NT for the rest of us.

This is The Work of Jesus:

Hebrews 10:16
This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

Just as Jesus did with Paul:

Romans 7:25
I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

And, If Jesus has not yet written to that extent upon any believer, it is no business of mine, but His. Pretty sure He's capable of doing whatever it is He Wants to.

Denial of Gods Words in any form is not my gig. Nor is it my job to pass it on to some other pseudo intellect other than myself, if they can't hold up to every Word of God.

I expect if we all listened to every Word, "as it is written" instead of our own, we'd have little basis to dispute anything. But obviously that's not in the cards, and never has been to this point. I do however expect it to change at some point.

Hebrews 8:11
And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

 

[Free]

Then only Peter, James and John need to listen to Jesus?[

I don't know how anyone could take such a claim seriously.

Mark 9:7
And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.

If we are paying attentions to the account, Jesus appeared "talking with" with Moses and Elias (the Law and the Prophet).

There was no way for any of these men present to recognize them by their appearances, but they DID recognize who they were from what? Yep. Their "talking."

And what was the effect of that talking? It put them to sleep. And this, according to a principle that is laid out in the scriptures. That after the law is delivered, man is put to sleep. It is a spiritual slumber. They can not see or hear. It is first shown with Adam in the Garden, and with many of the O.T. prophets as well. They are, with first exposures, "immobilized." There are other examples of this in the scriptures, Gen. 15:12 or . And this "principle" is shown with these 3.

Isaiah 29:10
For the Lord hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered.

And, when they WOKE UP, they saw, only Jesus, as we are meant to see and hear from the Law and the prophets, speaking.

Not all is as it appears to readers on the surface. And yes, those Words of God, listen to HIM, do also apply to US.

In the context, only Peter, James, and John were being spoken to. I find it strange that you cannot take that seriously but yet go on about things having nothing to do with anything and then expect us to take you seriously.

He is quite incorrect. But according to him the only people who can really understand are those who have been edumacated into his particular sect, which position I reject as false.

He is correct, regardless of what you believe his reason to be.

Every Word of God is meant for YOU and I according to Jesus. Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4. Now I know you reject that, but I prefer to "listen to Him."

That's a falsehood. Don't purposely misrepresent someone else.

Again, not. We too are to be in remembrance of ALL that the Word, the law, the prophets and the Apostles have spoken. And yes, the Holy Spirit will bring His Words to remembrance with us, for us and in our behalves.

2 Peter 3:2
That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:

This notion that The Word of God is only a trickle down posture from God in Christ to some handful of priests in order for them to let us know what it really means is patent falsehood. All believers are fully meant to know EVERY WORD of God. Passing the baton off to some other person's intellect is not the order of God.

Gal. 6:
4 But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.

Romans 14:5
One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

If some person is fully persuaded, in their own mind, to worship or not on a certain day or to not eat pork, it is NO BUSINESS of mine. It's their mind.

Yes, we are to remember things but that has nothing to do with John 10:25-26. I clearly stated the reason this is the case and that the result is the NT. It is that which we are to study and remember. The problem is that with an incorrect understanding of this passage, many have been led into error; we've seen it here countless times, even in this thread. Everything is for us to know and study and is for our benefit, but not everything applies directly to us.

This is The Work of Jesus:

Hebrews 10:16
This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

Just as Jesus did with Paul:

Romans 7:25
I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

And, If Jesus has not yet written to that extent upon any believer, it is no business of mine, but His. Pretty sure He's capable of doing whatever it is He Wants to.

Denial of Gods Words in any form is not my gig. Nor is it my job to pass it on to some other pseudo intellect other than myself, if they can't hold up to every Word of God.

I expect if we all listened to every Word, "as it is written" instead of our own, we'd have little basis to dispute anything. But obviously that's not in the cards, and never has been to this point. I do however expect it to change at some point.

Hebrews 8:11
And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

This doesn't address what I said.

 

[smaller]

In the context, only Peter, James, and John were being spoken to. I find it strange that you cannot take that seriously but yet go on about things having nothing to do with anything and then expect us to take you seriously.

Then, accordingly, we only Listen to Jesus when He directly addresses us, personally. That is the posture I reject.

Did the event happen to those men? Of course. What that doesn't mean is only they are to "listen to Jesus."

But you use the same sight when viewing O.T. law as well, so I'm not surprised. It was only spoken to O.T. Jews so it has no applications to us.

He is correct, regardless of what you believe his reason to be.

I doubt for a single minute you agree with the E.O. and he only agrees with the E.O. sights on every posture. So let's not pull each others legs here.

That's a falsehood. Don't purposely misrepresent someone else.

It's a simple sight. Do we listen to Jesus or not?

No believer in their right mind says NOT.

Yes, we are to remember things but that has nothing to do with John 10:25-26.

Every Word of Jesus bears applicability to ALL. Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4. How we may arrive to personal applications will obvious vary. Every believer there is today started out in the shoes of John 10:25-26, prior to belief. So, do those Words apply? Yep.

Your sight is to put The Word into a historical place in time lockdown. That is NOT the only sight available.

I clearly stated the reason this is the case and that the result is the NT. It is that which we are to study and remember. The problem is that with an incorrect understanding of this passage, many have been led into error; we've seen it here countless times, even in this thread. Everything is for us to know and study and is for our benefit, but not everything applies directly to us.

Every Word of God applies to man. Cut out what you will from there. I don't see as you do, certainly.

This doesn't address what I said.

Denial of or disobedience to Word of God is nothing new. Been going on since day 1 of man.

The "Divine Nature" of the Word is Spiritual, Alive and Active. John 6:63, Heb. 4:12. The Word does His Own Intentions with same regardless of "how" we might see things.

Isaiah 55:11
So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

 

[brother Paul]

And there you have it folks. The Words of Jesus were NOT meant for YOU. The Words of Jesus were ONLY MEANT FOR THE DISCIPLES. I guess we can all just close up the Bible, because none of it was meant for me. The Holy Spirit was only given to the disciples so they could remember the words Jesus taught them. Yeah, I got it. Your religion is in vain!

that's not fair ez, he was not saying NONE of His words are meant for us, but that in THIS CASE they were spoken only to these three and the personal revelation of SEEING Him in His glory was only for their eyes AT THIS TIME...we understand from Matthew's account that they onbviously shared the news with others. Another example is from Deuteronomy 28. These words were only applicable to those who were under the Covenant made at Horeb. They could apply to us as well (if we believe we must or even can keep the whole law) and we can glean from them sound principles but the actual promises are dependent on keeping the whole of the letter of the law which is not necessitated in our Covenant.

 

[Free]

Then, accordingly, we only Listen to Jesus when He directly addresses us, personally. That is the posture I reject.

That is not what I stated nor is it my belief. It is about proper interpretation of Scripture and "rightly handling the word of truth" (2 Tim. 2:15, ESV). And in this case, the Father was speaking to Peter, James, and John--specific persons for a specific reason.

Did the event happen to those men? Of course. What that doesn't mean is only they are to "listen to Jesus."

What it also doesn't mean is that we are to sit and wait for a voice to speak to us. What it does mean is that Peter, James, and John were to listen to what Jesus said to them.

But you use the same sight when viewing O.T. law as well, so I'm not surprised. It was only spoken to O.T. Jews so it has no applications to us.

Much of it doesn't apply to us. There are things we can learn from the Law but that doesn't mean it all applies to us. To say otherwise is to be ignorant of the Law and its purpose. Try reading Galatians.

I doubt for a single minute you agree with the E.O. and he only agrees with the E.O. sights on every posture. So let's not pull each others legs here.

No one is pulling anyone's leg. You are simply not understanding what I am saying. I was clearly addressing the understanding of a certain passage as given by Jim Parker. Nothing more.

It's a simple sight. Do we listen to Jesus or not?

No believer in their right mind says NOT.

Of course we listen to Jesus, through the Bible, but that is not what I was addressing. You told a lie and misrepresented my position.

Every Word of Jesus bears applicability to ALL. Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4. How we may arrive to personal applications will obvious vary. Every believer there is today started out in the shoes of John 10:25-26, prior to belief. So, do those Words apply? Yep.

Your sight is to put The Word into a historical place in time lockdown. That is NOT the only sight available.

I misspoke; I meant John 14:25-26.

Denial of or disobedience to Word of God is nothing new. Been going on since day 1 of man.

The "Divine Nature" of the Word is Spiritual, Alive and Active. John 6:63, Heb. 4:12. The Word does His Own Intentions with same regardless of "how" we might see things.

Isaiah 55:11
So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

 

[Jim Parker]

So now we can conveniently say that this scripture wasn't for me.

OF course it was for you.
Just not in the way you imagine.

Sorry, that didn't just tell us to listen to God's prophets. That tells us to listen The Prophet of God. His words were quite distinct from the others, for I never heard him say "thus saith the Lord." You can find his words printed in the gospels: They would be the one's in RED.

The passage you quoted told the Israelites to listen to God's prophets. That's what it meant IN CONTEXT; Old Testament Jews were given prophets to encourage, admonish, rebuke, guide, pronounce God's blessing or punishment, and occasionally predict.
Hebrews 1:1-2a says, "In many and various ways God spoke of old to our fathers by the prophets; but in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son,..."
Jesus was not a prophet. He is God.
And printing Jesus' words in red is a sales gimmick. The original manuscripts of the "memoirs of the apostles" (as the early church called the Gospels) did not have Jesus' words "in red". (JTLYK)

Wow, do you even hear yourself? If that were the case? Imagine that, the unity of the brethren found in Christ.

And do you see that unity of believers as a reality today? No, you do not.

So are you saying the Holy Spirit was only for the disciples?

No. The indwelling of and baptism in the Holy Spirit is for every believer.
John 14:26 (RSV) But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.
Context: To whom was Jesus speaking?
Answer: The disciples who were with Him at the "last supper."
Question: Why would they need the Holy Spirit to teach them and remind them what Jesus said?
Answer: Because they demonstrated over and over that they did not understand Jesus' teaching and He would have to explain it to them in private. After Jesus ascended to the Father, the Holy Spirit was sent fulfill that role.
Today, the Holy Spirit enables people to understand scripture and to minister according to the gifts that the Spirit distributes.

Again, conveniently selecting which scriptures should speak to you and which ones are for someone else. Oh, I'm sorry, did I say the words speak to you?

That's not what I said at all. All scripture "speaks" to me but not all scripture means what YOU think they mean.
Jesus, speaking to the Jews who opposed Him and were definitely not His sheep, told them that His sheep hear His voice.
Hearing a voice requires that someone be speaking, which creates sound waves, which can be received by someone with ears. That's how "hearing" happens.
Is Jesus still walking the earth and speaking to people? No, He is not.
Do you hear Jesus' voice as if He were standing in front of you and speaking to you? The only people I have heard say that Jesus has appeared to them ans spoken audible to them are televangelists and I have serious reservations as to the veracity of their claims.


iakov the fool
(beaucoup dien cai dau)




DISCLAIMER: By reading the words posted above, you have made a free will choice to expose yourself to the rantings of iakov the fool. The poster assumes no responsibility for any temporary, permanent or otherwise annoying manifestations of cognitive dysfunction that, in any manner, may allegedly be related to the reader’s deliberate act by which he/she has knowingly allowed the above rantings to enter into his/her consciousness. No warrantee is expressed or implied. Individual mileage may vary. And, no, I don't want to hear about it. No sniveling! Enjoy the rest of your life here and the eternal one to come.

 

[ezrider]

The passage you quoted told the Israelites to listen to God's prophets. That's what it meant IN CONTEXT; Old Testament Jews were given prophets to encourage, admonish, rebuke, guide, pronounce God's blessing or punishment, and occasionally predict.
Hebrews 1:1-2a says, "In many and various ways God spoke of old to our fathers by the prophets; but in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son,..."
Jesus was not a prophet.

I'll give you an opportunity to redeem yourself. For the passage that I quoted from Deut 18, was also referenced twice for a witness unto you, so that you would know that Jesus was that Prophet that God promised to raise up unto them. I'll give you a clue. It's somewhere after the book of John but before the book of Romans.

 

[Jim Parker]

I'll give you an opportunity to redeem yourself.

Because your opinions are infallible like the pope's?

For the passage that I quoted from Deut 18, was also referenced twice for a witness unto you, so that you would know that Jesus was that Prophet that God promised to raise up unto them. I'll give you a clue. It's somewhere after the book of John but before the book of Romans.

What you quoted was Deut 18:18-19.
Let's take a look at the entire passage instead of the piece of the passage. (Reading a passage IN CONTEXT tends to prevent people from taking pieces of scripture out of their context and trying to make them say what they were not meant to say. You should try it.)
Deu 18:9-22 (RSV)
When you come into the land which the LORD your God gives you, you shall not learn to follow the abominable practices of those nations. There shall not be found among you any one who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, any one who practices divination, a soothsayer, or an augur, or a sorcerer, or a charmer, or a medium, or a wizard, or a necromancer.

For whoever does these things is an abomination to the LORD; and because of these abominable practices the LORD your God is driving them out before you. You shall be blameless before the LORD your God.

For these nations, which you are about to dispossess, give heed to soothsayers and to diviners; but as for you, the LORD your God has not allowed you so to do. "The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your brethren--him you shall heed--just as you desired of the LORD your God at Horeb on the day of the assembly, when you said, 'Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, or see this great fire any more, lest I die.' And the LORD said to me, 'They have rightly said all that they have spoken.

I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brethren; and I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I command him. And whoever will not give heed to my words which he shall speak in my name, I myself will require it of him.

But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in my name which I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die.' And if you say in your heart, 'How may we know the word which the LORD has not spoken?'--when a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word which the LORD has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously, you need not be afraid of him.

In that passage, Moses told the people of Israel that, as God spoke to them through Moses, so also, when they enter the promised land, God would provide other Jewish prophets (not pagan gentiles) to speak His words to Israel and God forbade them from consulting the pagan, Gentile mediums, seers, sorcerers, etc. The Bible contains books of the writings of the four major prophets and twelve minor ones as well as several others for whom there are not assigned books. Those are the prophets which Moses was talking about in Deut.18:18-19. The first chapter of the book of Hebrews makes it abundantly clear that Jesus is much more than a prophet.

so that you would know that Jesus was that Prophet that God promised to raise up unto them. I'll give you a clue. It's somewhere after the book of John but before the book of Romans.

Yes, yes. I know. Peter's response to the Sanhedrin.
Act 3:22-24 For Moses truly said to the fathers, ‘The LORD your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brethren. Him you shall hear in all things, whatever He says to you. ‘And it shall be that every soul who will not hear that Prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.’ “Yes, and all the prophets, from Samuel and those who follow, as many as have spoken, have also foretold these days.

So the prophets of the OT foretold the days when Jesus, the Son of God, would be born of a virgin, killed for the sins of the world, and raised again from the dead. And that is what Peter was talking about; the days which He and all of Jerusalem and of Israel had just witnessed when the Logos was born of a virgin as a man and destroyed the work of the devil.

All the OT prophets told about Jesus who is much more than a prophet; He is Emmanuel: "God with Us."
Jesus is not a prophet; Jesus is God.
A prophet speaks for God. Jesus is God speaking.
The prophets foretold about Jesus who is God incarnate.

That's all I'm saying.
OK?


iakov the fool
(beaucoup dien cai dau)




DISCLAIMER: By reading the words posted above, you have made a free will choice to expose yourself to the rantings of iakov the fool. The poster assumes no responsibility for any temporary, permanent or otherwise annoying manifestations of cognitive dysfunction that, in any manner, may allegedly be related to the reader’s deliberate act by which he/she has knowingly allowed the above rantings to enter into his/her consciousness. No warrantee is expressed or implied. Individual mileage may vary. And, no, I don't want to hear about it. No sniveling! Enjoy the rest of your life here and the eternal one to come.

 

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I misspoke; I meant John 14:25-26.

Which is also "for us." Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4. I believe Jesus was accurate in these statements.

If you want to entertain HOW this is a fact, let me know. Scriptures will SHOW how and why every Word applies to US.

Paul has a great example of the "active ADVERSE dynamic" between The Word and indwelling sin, evil present with us in Romans 7:7-13. And this "adverse dynamic" remains in place for "all." It's one of the reasons our "flesh" is in an adversarial state with the Spirit. Gal. 5:17.

 

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that's not fair ez, he was not saying NONE of His words are meant for us, but that in THIS CASE they were spoken only to these three and the personal revelation of SEEING Him in His glory was only for their eyes AT THIS TIME...we understand from Matthew's account that they onbviously shared the news with others. Another example is from Deuteronomy 28. These words were only applicable to those who were under the Covenant made at Horeb. They could apply to us as well (if we believe we must or even can keep the whole law) and we can glean from them sound principles but the actual promises are dependent on keeping the whole of the letter of the law which is not necessitated in our Covenant.

Every Word of God is for man. Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4.

Not saying it's easy to understand. But on a simple level, we know the Word was made flesh, was Glorified, and sent His Spirit into our hearts. In effect and purpose, "every Word" of God abides "in us" in this way. Heb. 4:12. Not that this covers the subject, but what Jesus said above DOES apply to all of us, no matter WHOM such Words were spoken to, IN SOME WAY.

I gave an easy example to Free in the post above about "how and why" the LAW applies to all of us, and we don't even see or recognize HOW this is so, but Paul does an adequate job of "explaining" this feature in Romans 7:7-13 showing an active adversarial relationship between "indwelling sin" and the LAW.

It's also why we don't put ourselves under the letter of the Law, but the Spirit of the Law, Romans 13:8-10.

 

[K2CHRIST]

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God isliving and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.. the word scripture is anointed and does speak to us through the holy spirit
2 Timothy 3:16New International Version (NIV)
16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, the Bible is part of the person through the scriptures

The above is an excellent verse: What does it mean?

From what I have seen; most of the time the phrase "The Word of God" is used we mean the Scriptures. However, the Bible (the Scriptures) very specifically calls Jesus Christ the Word of God, and the Bible clearly denotes a difference between the Scriptures and Jesus Christ. So does the above verse (Heb 4:12) men the Scriptures are alive and powerful like the person posting thinks, or is the verse saying Jesus Christ is alive and active?

I think a quick look at the context can tell us. The Heb 4:13 continues "Nothing in all creation is hidden from God's sight..." (NIV). ... or the (NASB) reads Heb 4:13 "And there is no creature hidden from His sight..."

So the Word of God refers to God, and we are not preaching 'Father, Son, Spirit and Holy Scriptures', or at least we say we are not, because apparently some are preaching that, but I don't think they realize by creating their Bible as being alive and powerful they have made it a person. They have made a god out of their Bible.

So yeah I also very much like 2 Tim 3:16 where it talks about how the Scriptures are good for reproof. That is why I choose to reprove those who think their Bible is alive, instead of think that Jesus Christ is alive, by using the very Scriptures they were putting their faith in. Their faith should be in Jesus Christ, just like it is written. He is alive. He is powerful. His name is called "The Word of God".

Rev 19:13 He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.

And if we are still thinking the Bible is going around performing signs and wonder, may Mark 16:20 might help. It reads, And they went out and preached everywhere, while the Lord worked with them, and confirmed the word by the signs that followed.

I believe, because I have real reason to believe, that Jesus Christ is alive and powerful. I believe, because I have seen this, that He (Jesus Christ who is God) performs miracles, signs, and wonders in our midst. For example I am involved in a Christian healing ministry, and I ask very specifically for "Jesus Christ" to heal people, and I have seen them be healed. I do not and never have asked the Bible to heal them, because I don't think the Bible is alive and powerful so as to be able to heal them. I do believe the Bible is good for reproof, and even to reprove those that think it is alive. I believe the Scriptures are writings inspired by God , so they should be studied, but they are not God as in a person that is alive, active, and who can display power. To think that, in my opinion, clearly shows that a person has made the Bible their god and have done so by thinking Jesus Christ is dead, so they think Jesus Christ can not be heard from. Paul wrote about this problem.

Roman 10:6-8 ... Do not say in your heart.... Who will descend into the abyss?' (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead)." But what does it say? The Word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart"-- that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,

My friends. Jesus Christ is alive. He is not dead. His name is called the Word of God because He will speak to you. You will find you can hear what He says in your heart, and sometimes (because He makes His abode in you) you will find His words coming out of your own mouth. The Scriptures are writings God inspired, but they are words recorded on pages. They don't think. They are not alive. And not all the words written down are even God's words. You have quotes from Satan recorded in the Scriptures. So stop thinking the Bible is alive, and start believing Jesus Christ is really alive. He is not dead and in the abyss. He is alive in the Kingdom of God which is indeed in your midst. You can get to know Him and hear from Him, and she the incredible things He wants to do for both you and all people.

To me it is so sad to see people writing as if the Bible is alive, because it is clear they don't really know Jesus Christ very well at all. They say because the "Bible tells me so", and defend that position because they don't know and talk to our Lord regularly. I have seen where people like that might have heard from the Lord on occasions, but quickly go back to thinking the Scriptures are alive and are the "Him" that talks to them. But you can not regularly have conversation with "Him" who said He would never leave you and still think He is the Bible. You can't do that because He will talk to you about everything including the Bible.

So Christians call both the Bible and Jesus Christ, "The Word of God". but the bible calls Jesus Christ "The Word of God". By calling the both Jesus Christ and the Bible the Word of God we have brought confusion into the church, and that confusion has even turned many people away from a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. They start saying, "Because the bible tells me so," because they are not hearing from the Lord everyday, so they might be able to do what He is personally telling them and say "because my Wonderful Counselor, my awesome alive and powerful, my everlasting Father, my Prince of Peace, my Lord Jesus Christ tells me so."

They don't really know Jesus Christ. They only know the writings, and they misread the writings because those who wrote those writings did know Jesus Christ. They heard His voice and did what He was telling them. That is not what people that say, "because the Bible tells me so" are doing.

I went way too long again, but it makes me so very very sad. Those people who wrote the Bible knew the Lord and wanted so much that others would come to know Him. That is why they wrote what they did, but the people chose to try and follow the writings instead of seeking to know the Lord. That is why Jesus said there would be many (not a few but many) who would tell Him on that day about how they cast out demons in His name, healed the sick in His name, and prophesy in HIs name, but He would tell them He never knew them.

They don't know Him or they would clearly understand that He is the Word of God, but is not the Scriptures. They would know His sheep hear His voice, and that is a small voice we pick up inside us. It is not the Scriptures, though He often talks about the Scriptures and will tell you to read them. More often He will talk to you on other things, because we have lots of things to do and He likes helping us. They just can't understand unless they believe in Him.

Last night I was buying groceries. I had picked up some things and was about to leave and the Lord told me to get some cereal. I pointed out to Him that the cereal was not on sale. He told me, "Karl go over to where the cereal is and let me convince you that it is and excellent buy." I laughed, and went over to the cereal, and He pointed to a statement on the bag of cereal which said it had 27 servings in it and He said something about how little each serving would be. So I got the cereal, "Because the Lord told me to." But if you don't know Him you don't believe in Him who said He would never leave you and you are going to scoff at my little testimony about Him, because they is what you have always been doing. And it is extremely sad because many that know the Scriptures so well that they say, "Because the Bible tells me so", are going to find out at the wrong time that they didn't.

You know. That reminds me. It's time to have some of that cereal the Lord had me get last night. He must have known I would be writing about it this morning. He is awesome.

 

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From what I have seen; most of the time the phrase "The Word of God" is used we mean the Scriptures. However, the Bible (the Scriptures) very specifically calls Jesus Christ the Word of God, and the Bible clearly denotes a difference between the Scriptures and Jesus Christ.

That is an oft repeated and baseless claim. Your positional claim is that what was spoken by God, recorded for and in our behalves, is past, done and no longer valid, alive and active.

Scripture does not make that claim.

For example?

When scripture, Gods Word, records this fact:

John 14:
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

There is no difference between that fact written and that fact, living and active. It's not a one and done, said and gone matter.

Upon examination of a single fact of scripture, here for example:

John 17:17
Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

This isn't talking about some supposed word in our heads claiming to be Jesus speaking to us. It is talking about His Written Word.

An example of "living and active" Word is demonstrated by Paul, here. And anyone can "pick up the same command" today and, INTERNALLY, derive the adverse working in the MIND against the LAW WRITTEN:

Romans 7:
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

We can make any claims we please about what is in writing. But the reality factor here is that indwelling sin, which Paul termed "no more I" has and maintains a "present day present time" active ADVERSARIAL RELATIONSHIP with THE LAW.

And that "unseen but internal adversarial relationship" caused by the adverse relationship between LAW and SIN worked in Paul JUST AS EFFECTIVELY as it does so in US, to this day. Resulting in THIS factual state activity in Paul just as it will effect this state of activity in US to this day:

Romans 7:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

You can dance around on this subject all you please, trying to draw some difference between THE WRITTEN LAW and Jesus, but there is no difference. There IS an active adversarial relationship between indwelling sin and the written LAW that is "unique" to LAW and SIN, quite apart from anything we can do about it.

It's also a very strong reason to question every thought, because of this internal adverse activity in the MIND.

A simple lesson on "living Word, WRITTEN" of God in relationship to "very real" sin dwelling in our flesh and having "an adverse effect" on/in our minds.

Now, go play with Jesus in your head and see if that little voice will tell you the same things. Then ask yourself if you want to dance with the little voice OR would you prefer to take it "as it is written" just to make sure the little voice ain't lying to ya?

People who try to draw distinctions between God and His Words, written, have no understanding of the "NATURE" of "Living Word." The Living Word is no different than the recorded version. He Operates in the way the "ways the instruction manual" describes, and so do we, also operate via the "written" disclosures therein.

John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

This isn't talking about some "future imaginary words in our heads." It's that Word, above, right there, "as it is written." There is not one whit of difference between The Spirit of the Word, and the WRITTEN WORD. They go HAND IN HAND. Your position on the other hand says NO, there is a DIFFERENCE.

Those written words DO produce an adversarial state, in our fleshly minds. Which is a great reason not to cast aside what is in writing over words in our heads that can't line up with what is in writing:

Paul advises us of this state of our flesh. Whether we accept the "hard fact" of this writing or not is irrelevant. It REMAINS a fact today just as it was a fact from Adam on:

Galatians 5:17
For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

And this state, above, described by Paul is delineated as to how and why in Romans 7 and in other places.

If a believer understands the contrary state, the warring in mind, the adverse relationship between LAW and indwelling sin, they might no be so apt to leap headlong into the clutches of little voices in their heads that more than likely isn't "leveling" with them, IN TRUTH.

 

[K2CHRIST]

That is an oft repeated and baseless claim. Your positional claim is that what was spoken by God, recorded for and in our behalves, is past, done and no longer valid, alive and active.

Soooo many ways you have it wrong. My claim is that God speaks to us, (Is 1:2) Listen, O heavens, and hear O earth; For the Lord speaks

I quote the Scriptures and thus show I believe they have value. In this case they are good to reprove people posting. Since we read the Lord speaks, we should know He is alive and active, but the Scriptures are writings and have never spoken to you! You read them, they don't speak.

So I have also pointed out that Jesus told the Jews, "You search the Scriptures because you think in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life (Jn 5:39,40)

And that is exactly what is happening with many Christians today. They are searching the Scriptures and thinking that those Scriptures will give them eternal life. Of course for anything to give you eternal life it would have to be alive, active, and powerful, but the Scriptures are not. Jesus Christ is though. He is called the Word of God, that is His name, and He is alive and active. But, they will not actually turn to Him. Jesus said they will not. They put their trust in the writings and not in the Lord, and because they won't turn to Him they deceive themselves. They will not "Listen" like Isaiah commanded them to. So they we say, "Because the Bible tells me so", instead of saying, "Because the Lord tells me so". They confess with their mouth that the Scriptures are correct and they are thinking the Scriptures will save them, instead of thinking the Christ who is the living, active, and powerful word of God is their savior (Jesus/Yeshua)

Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

Paul advises us of this state of our flesh. Whether we accept the "hard fact" of this writing or not is irrelevant. It REMAINS a fact today just as it was a fact from Adam on:

Galatians 5:17
For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

Jesus said He was the Truth. Again some have concluded the Scriptures are the truth instead of writings that point you to the Truth. It's not that the Scriptures are wrong, it rather that they are trying to get you to seek the Lord Jesus Christ and some will not do that. The reason they don't do that is because their flesh battles against the Spirit, so that they can not hear from the Spirit of God. It is written that the Spirit of God speaks. He doesn't speak on His own initiative but as He hears He speaks. And He takes from what belongs to Jesus Christ, and since the Spirit speaks, He take the words of God which belong to Jesus Christ who is the Word of God and speaks them to us. We pick them up with our spiritual ears, and we find them in our heart and on our lips. But some think they are on pages.

Some who think the Scriptures give them eternal life will memorize the Scriptures and get them in their head, so that they can recall them. But that is not knowing the Lord. He will talk to you about anything He wants and not just the Scriptures. So if you tell them things that He tells you hoping to show them with your testimony about hearing from the Lord they reject that testimony and again thump their Bible. Well, their Bible is right. It explains clearly their problem. But they won't believe the writings. And Jesus explained that and it was recorded in their Bible.

Jn 5:46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?

I believe the writings. I "Listen" just like the Lord commanded through Isaiah. I turn to the Lord Jesus Christ and found that He was alive, active, and powerful. I testify about Him, but some reject my testimony, and that to was explained in the Bible.

Jn 3"11 Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not accept our testimony.

It's all explained in the very Bible people refer to when they say, "Because the Bible tells me so", but it is not that it is because "The Lord Jesus Christ tells me so." We are supposed to be preaching Him, but how can you do that if you don't listen to Him?