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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
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The birth date of Christ
- Thread starter tim-from-pa
- Start date
brother Paul
Member
Unless He was born in what we call 4 BC then the 30 AD date becomes the correct day of crucifixion...(which having died just before sundown would make it on the day right before the 7th day Sabbath, and during the feast, the 1st day following the 7th day Sabbath IS always first fruits)
brother Paul
Member
SO then He rose on the 4th day following a full 3 days and 3 nights....but He continually says He will rise ON THE third day...and the scriptures bear witness He rose ON THE third day...lets see whom shall I believe? Jesus or you guys? Hmmm?
Sinthesis
Member
The third day of what? That is the question. The 4th day following a full 3 days and 3 nights can be the third day according to some other reckoning. A reckoning not apparent to Christians distracted by Easter, but readily apparent to Jews celebrating the many Holy days of Passover etc.
J
jocor
Guest
A thread of its own would be good, but since this thread hinges upon the child being Messiah when it isn't Messiah makes it a very relevant point to clear up.
Deborah13
Member
There was no such thing as a 7th day Sabbath, the Sabbath was the 6th day. However, I believe you are correct about the firstfruits. On the first day of the week Sunday, following the Passover was the day when the omar 'Waving' was lifted up as the firstfruits of the barley harvest.
Actually there were many Sabbaths (holy days), Passover was a high Sabbath day.
Gregg
Member
In the Hebrew mindset, any portion of a day can be reckoned as a full day when counting days. A day begins and ends at the evening hour, on or about 6:00pm.
Christ died before 6:00pm on the day before Passover, a Friday [day one, the 6th day of the week]. His body was in the grave all of Saturday [day two, the seventh day of the week, a sabbath day]. He rose from the dead . . . Hallelujah!, on a Sunday [day three, the first day of the week]. He was in the grave 3 days, rising on the 3rd day.
Christ died before 6:00pm on the day before Passover, a Friday [day one, the 6th day of the week]. His body was in the grave all of Saturday [day two, the seventh day of the week, a sabbath day]. He rose from the dead . . . Hallelujah!, on a Sunday [day three, the first day of the week]. He was in the grave 3 days, rising on the 3rd day.
Last edited:
Gregg
Member
Hi Sparrow,
As you mentioned Rev 12:5 does't refer to the birth of Christ, primarily that "God gave unto him, to shew unto His servants things which must shortly come to pass" Rev 1:1. Christ's birth had already come to pass. The Revelation of Jesus Christ is present and future to John's time.
Hi Tim.
I am perplexed at the OP where you state, 'That he lived for 12240 days. The precise figure is from a more esoteric source.' This thread, being in Apologetics & Theology, should not draw upon esoteric [mystery] sources - or upon astrology for that matter. Would you unveil your esoteric source?
Deborah13
Member
What is one day per God?
Gen 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
God created the earth, the planets, and stars. He placed them in the heavens and set them in motion and on paths.
By them we can know days, times, and seasons.
I owe you an apology, of coarse the Sat. Sabbath is the 7th day!! I read and saw something that WASN'T there.
brother Paul
Member
Cool sis, thanks for your honesty...also did you know that the Hebrew does not say "the first day" (like the second day, third day, etc.)? It says "day one"...why do you think that is???
Deborah13
Member
I don't know, I be interested in hearing.
Gregg
Member
Hi Deborah,
No apology needed. I do enjoy reading your posts.
Deep question about what a day is to God. The 4th and succeeding days are 24 hour periods; but the first three days are in question. Since the 1st through 3rd days had a morning and evening [as the rest], I've assumed they were also 24 hour periods.
Regarding the birth date of Christ:
- Jesus was resurrected on the 1st day of the week.
- The LORD said let there be light on day one (Gen 1), [perhaps the Son of God coming into the world (Jn 1:1)].
- IMHO, I would look for indications that the Son of God also became flesh (Jn 1:14) on the 1st day of the week.
Deborah13
Member
I agree 24 hrs., I agree He rose on the first day of the week.
Your next two thoughts are very interesting and things I had never thought of or heard before.
Thank you for accepting my apology.
Sinthesis
Member
With the Jewish restrictions of travel on the sabbath, it would make sense for Joseph and Mary to seek lodging for that day, and perhaps be crowded out of the inn by all the other Jews doing the same. In that dangerous world they wouldn't return to the road at sabbath's end Saturday evening to travel in the dark, so they surely stayed in the manger from Friday evening until at least Sunday morning.
Gregg
Member
Hi Sinthesis,
Would you provide any Scripture references regarding the Friday and the Sabbath that you mention? I am not finding any as I search the Gospels.
Deborah13
Member
This is what I understand when combining your post and Sinthesis'.
If Jesus was born on the 1 day of the week (Sunday) it would make sense with the scripture that talks about why they couldn't get accommodations in an inn.
The 7th day Sabbath (Sat.) began at sunset on Friday and because Jews had restrictions on how far they could travel on the Sabbath any travelers would have had to stay put in Bethlehem until the Sabbath was over at sunset on Sat.
tim-from-pa
Member
No, just a little busy and this thread took off more than I realized, so that I only dealt with the major things.
I have no problem with alternate interpretations, but also consider prophecy has multiple fulfilments. For example, I also took the stance that the manchild, the symbolic name of the 144,000, could also fulfil this passage in the end times. And similar interpretations as yours. But it started with Christ anyway. Some say Herod was the personification of the dragon trying to devour the manchild, and in the end time the beast (empowered by Satan) ready to devour the true church. Like history, prophecy repeats itself, but there's no reason this passage cannot also apply to Christ, as it quotes Psalms 2 which is quoted for both Christ, and all other sons of God (Revelation 2:26-28) who will rule and reign with him.
So for the time being, the subject here of this thread is to realize that this passage also applies to Christ and yields some valuable information as to the time of his birth.
tim-from-pa
Member
That's true, except Jesus clearly defined what he meant by a day:
Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world. 10But if a man walk in the night, he stumbleth, because there is no light in him.
To which the only sign he'd give was the sign of Jonah:
For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
That means if he was buried at sundown, he'd arise 3 days later at sundown, Sabbath day as it closed and Sunday was commencing. When the Sabbath closed the wave sheaf for Firstfruits was cut, and the ascension occurred when it was waved before the altar. The Jews had the insight to perform these ceremonies at the right times, which foreshadowed the resurrection occurred Saturday at sundown.
tim-from-pa
Member
OK, now back to the subject at hand:
12240 days before March 24, 34AD, brings us to September 18, 1BC. The birth can't be too late in September, as the sun would ride to the bottom of Virgo, and the lady would only be clothed in knee-high stockings (and gentlemen as myself would have to turn their heads--
) Likewise it can't be too early or else Passover 33.5 years later would come too early. It's a very tight spec indeed, and I found that no later than perhaps the start of the equinox, around September 21, and probably no earlier than mid-September. Very tight.
There's those that say that the woman was clothed with the sun and the moon under her feet on September 11, 3BC. Agreed. I have no problem with that if I was wrong and he was truly born that year. But then the 12240 criteria would not be fulfilled, since that many days later comes out to March 17, 32AD. First of all --- wrong day of the week to be crucified (Saturday), and secondly, most likely too early for Passover. A March 24 Passover, (my date) is possible but on the early end of things.
The "Virgo configuration" and Passover timing is such that it is very difficult to hit both, at least with the 12240 days or 414.5 lunar cycles difference between them. That it hit at all, is truly a remarkable coincidence for the tight period in history Christ died, or really, perhaps the truth?
September 18, 1BC to March 24, 34AD a span of 12240 days
On September 18 the sun was in the area of Virgo near the reproductive parts -- a good place to "clothe" the woman who is bearing Messiah. The moon was truly under her feet (the Sept 11 model shows the moon more beside her feet, but I'll be forgiving of that).
In the time of Christ, those are the only two dates working out such that he died on a Wednesday.
And, there's one other thing. September 18 is a Sabbath. He would have arisen March 27, a Sabbath. As his first coming, so with his resurrection , and maybe his Second Coming.
BTW, I did not even make the Sabbath a criteria, but found it interesting that it worked out that way. All the other theories have Christ born on God-knows-what day of the week.
12240 days before March 24, 34AD, brings us to September 18, 1BC. The birth can't be too late in September, as the sun would ride to the bottom of Virgo, and the lady would only be clothed in knee-high stockings (and gentlemen as myself would have to turn their heads--
) Likewise it can't be too early or else Passover 33.5 years later would come too early. It's a very tight spec indeed, and I found that no later than perhaps the start of the equinox, around September 21, and probably no earlier than mid-September. Very tight.There's those that say that the woman was clothed with the sun and the moon under her feet on September 11, 3BC. Agreed. I have no problem with that if I was wrong and he was truly born that year. But then the 12240 criteria would not be fulfilled, since that many days later comes out to March 17, 32AD. First of all --- wrong day of the week to be crucified (Saturday), and secondly, most likely too early for Passover. A March 24 Passover, (my date) is possible but on the early end of things.
The "Virgo configuration" and Passover timing is such that it is very difficult to hit both, at least with the 12240 days or 414.5 lunar cycles difference between them. That it hit at all, is truly a remarkable coincidence for the tight period in history Christ died, or really, perhaps the truth?
September 18, 1BC to March 24, 34AD a span of 12240 days
On September 18 the sun was in the area of Virgo near the reproductive parts -- a good place to "clothe" the woman who is bearing Messiah. The moon was truly under her feet (the Sept 11 model shows the moon more beside her feet, but I'll be forgiving of that).
In the time of Christ, those are the only two dates working out such that he died on a Wednesday.
And, there's one other thing. September 18 is a Sabbath. He would have arisen March 27, a Sabbath. As his first coming, so with his resurrection , and maybe his Second Coming.
BTW, I did not even make the Sabbath a criteria, but found it interesting that it worked out that way. All the other theories have Christ born on God-knows-what day of the week.
.