The Blood Atonement ?

[Kidron]

So, let me ask you this..

1st Peter 1:18,19
"""" ..... redeemed with the precious blood of Christ""""

The Blood Atonement....
Lets look at it through this lens..

Here is some of what it does...

1.) It reconciles you to God and gives you eternal life with Him.
2.) it pays your sin debt.
3.) it achieves for you the sinless "in Christ" state of having the righteousness of Christ.
4.) It establishes you as a heaven bound family member, a Son of God, and a "joint Heir with Christ".
Romans 8:17 """""And since we are His children, we are his heirs.""""

Now, here are a few questions for you who are trying to "righteous work" your way to heaven.

Does the Blood Atonement establish all this FOR YOU that i listed, or does Faith establish it?
Does the Blood Atonement save you because your faith is accepted and God then saves you...and you are thereby SAVED ??...... or, does your faith as a process save you if you keep holding on to it?
It cant be both, as only one God does. (clue).<
So,..are you trusting in the Blood Atonement, or are you trusting in your progressive faith and your behavior to get you home to God?
Here is a hint....(Does your faith pay for your lifetime of sins, or does the Blood Atonement)??
It cant be both.
So, what are you trusting?

 

[Kidron]

This is my favorite hymn.
It was written by Robert Lowry in about 1878.
He wrote nearly 500 hymns.
The writer understood, perfectly, that salvation is not a "works based" setup, but rather its a blood atonement free gift thats eternally given only once the very instant God accepts your faith in Christ.
------------------------------------------------

What can wash away my sin?
Nothing but the blood of Jesus;
What can make me whole again?
Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

Oh! precious is the flow
That makes me white as snow;
No other fount I know,
Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

For my pardon, this I see,
Nothing but the blood of Jesus;
For my cleansing this my plea,
Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

Nothing can for sin atone,
Nothing but the blood of Jesus;
Naught of good that I have done,
Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

This is all my hope and peace,
Nothing but the blood of Jesus;
This is all my righteousness,
Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

Now by this I’ll overcome—
Nothing but the blood of Jesus,
Now by this I’ll reach my home—
Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

Glory! Glory! This I sing—
Nothing but the blood of Jesus,
All my praise for this I bring—
Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

 

[reba]

Sadly we dont hear the 'blood' songs much any more.

 

[Kidron]

Sadly we dont hear the 'blood' songs much any more.

I was invited and then visited a church a while back, and as they were getting ready to start the service, i found the worship leader and requested a song, (if it was a situation that would allow them to add one..) As i didnt know how structured their song service was , on any given Sunday, as i'd never been there before.
He looked at me and his eyes were blank, and he said...."dont think i know that one, but if its in a hymnal...."
So, the last 10 mins of the worship he mentioned that "someone requested a song and one of girls thinks she remembers it", so, we'll give it a try".
And they did, and i was glad to hear it..
Also, i like contemporary Christian worship, and i have often found it to be very spiritual and very moving, and often anointed, but, there are some "hymnal" hymns that i really like to hear, such as "Nothing but the Blood" and "Power in the Blood" , "Blessed Assurance", "Victory in Jesus", "There's Room at the Cross", 'Holy Spirit, Tho Are Welcome", '"Be Thou My Vision".

Well over a decade ago now, Michael W. Smith released a "hymns" CD<> DVD of praise and worship, and i think he sang nearly every really good contemporary #1 hit from the last 25 years on it, other then the really good songs written by Rich Mullins.
There is a contemp Christian song......"I can only imagine" by Mercy Me, that is prob worthy of that DVD by MWS.
-

 

[jocor]

Now, here are a few questions for you who are trying to "righteous work" your way to heaven.

Does the Blood Atonement establish all this FOR YOU that i listed, or does Faith establish it?
Does the Blood Atonement save you because your faith is accepted and God then saves you...and you are thereby SAVED ??...... or, does your faith as a process save you if you keep holding on to it?
It cant be both, as only one God does. (clue).<
So,..are you trusting in the Blood Atonement, or are you trusting in your progressive faith and your behavior to get you home to God?
Here is a hint....(Does your faith pay for your lifetime of sins, or does the Blood Atonement)??
It cant be both.
So, what are you trusting?

The blood atonement has no effect on an unbeliever until that person puts his faith in Yeshua and his shed blood. At that point, his faith will save him. If he loses that faith to the point of renouncing Yeshua (Heb 6:4-6) or by trampling on the atoning blood (Heb 10:29), he will be lost forever. He is no longer covered by the blood because he no longer has Yeshua's atoning sacrifice (Heb 10:26).

 

[Kidron]

The blood atonement has no effect on an unbeliever until that person puts his faith in Yeshua and his shed blood. At that point, his faith will save him. If he loses that faith to the point of renouncing Yeshua (Heb 6:4-6) or by trampling on the atoning blood (Heb 10:29), he will be lost forever. He is no longer covered by the blood because he no longer has Yeshua's atoning sacrifice (Heb 10:26).

-

Well, once you said "faith saves", you ignored the truth, because apparently you never understood it to begin with., J.
Let me explain...
The fact is, "faith" does not save anyone, jocor, but rather God SAVES someone, based on accepting their faith in Jesus.
So, if you have misunderstood basic Salvation 101 <> "how to be born again, then is it any wonder that you have nothing else right that you posted?

The fact is, you can't be unborn again, you cant undo your "joint heir" with Christ position..... and here is the reason...
The Blood atonement, covers ALL sins, It deletes them..... and this includes the sin of denying Jesus, or backsliding, or murdering your parents, or whatever.
See, there is no sin that you can commit as a believer that will held against you in eternity, as Jesus has already DIED to pay for all YOUR ETERNAL JUDGEMENT due your sins.
This is SALVATION.
See, the only thing that you will be judged for, as an unbeliever after you die,= is being an unbeliever.
Most Christians dont understand that a person goes to hell, not for a lifetime of sinning, but for being a Christ rejector who never got saved.
So, once a person solves that by becoming a Christian, then HELL, regarding going to hell, is NO LONGER APPLICABLE to them.
This is SALVATION., and isnt it GOOD NEWS?
So, the famous circular reasoning misunderstanding of Hebrews that all like you preach on Christian forums trying to create confusion in the minds of Believers, is in my opinion the worst sin of all., as the Bible <> NT tells us that its better that a person cast themselves into the ocean with a stone around their neck and drown, then it is to try to willingly stumble (confuse-mislead) other Christians on purpose.
You really should not do what you have just tried to do, jocor.
Seriously.

K

 

[jocor]

Well, once you said "faith saves", you ignored the truth, because apparently you never understood it to begin with., J.
Let me explain...
The fact is, "faith" does not save anyone, jocor, but rather God SAVES someone, based on accepting their faith in Jesus.

Of course "God" saves people. He does it by grace through faith. If we have no faith, we have no salvation.

James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?​

The obvious answer to the latter question is "No" because if his supposed faith does not work, it is dead. However, if we have faith that produces good works, then that faith WILL save him. Don't bother replying to me about how James is wrong. I don't have ears to hear such folly.

The fact is, you can't be unborn again, you cant undo your "joint heir" with Christ position..... and here is the reason...
The Blood atonement, covers ALL sins, It deletes them..... and this includes the sin of denying Jesus, or backsliding, or murdering your parents, or whatever.

See, there is no sin that you can commit as a believer that will held against you in eternity, as Jesus has already DIED to pay for all YOUR ETERNAL JUDGEMENT due your sins.

Hebrews 6:4-7 & 10:26-32 say you are wrong.

See, the only thing that you will be judged for, as an unbeliever after you die,= is being an unbeliever.

When a person denies/renounces Yeshua, he becomes an UNBELIEVER. He no longer BELIEVES. He will die as such.

Most Christians dont understand that a person goes to hell, not for a lifetime of sinning, but for being a Christ rejector who never got saved.
So, once a person solves that by becoming a Christian, then HELL, regarding going to hell, is NO LONGER APPLICABLE to them.
This is SALVATION., and isnt it GOOD NEWS?

That is not the Good News of Scripture, but your interpretation of it. In reality, what you are saying is that a Christ rejector who never got saved will go to hell, but a Christ rejector who rejects him after getting saved will not go to hell. Wrong! A Christ rejector will be lost no matter when he rejects him.

Rom 11:19-21 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.​

Unbelief will get us broken off of the olive tree. Hebrews 4:1-2 tells us unbelief will result in us not entering His rest.

So, the famous circular reasoning misunderstanding of Hebrews that all like you preach on Christian forums trying to create confusion in the minds of Believers, is in my opinion the worst sin of all., as the Bible <> NT tells us that its better that a person cast themselves into the ocean with a stone around their neck and drown, then it is to try to willingly stumble (confuse-mislead) other Christians on purpose.
You really should not do what you have just tried to do, jocor.
Seriously.

I am not "willingly" causing any to stumble, be confused or be misled. I am protecting them from the false sense of security you are trying to teach them. "Sure Bro, go right ahead and reject Christ. It won't matter. There is nothing you can do to lose your salvation. Eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow will always be there for you because you will live forever." Now that is what I consider confusing and misleading.

 

[ezra]

The blood atonement has no effect on an unbeliever until that person puts his faith in Yeshua and his shed blood. At that point, his faith will save him. If he loses that faith to the point of renouncing Yeshua (Heb 6:4-6) or by trampling on the atoning blood (Heb 10:29), he will be lost forever. He is no longer covered by the blood because he no longer has Yeshua's atoning sacrifice (Heb 10:26).

for many years i been on the fence osas i have studied this out from every angle there is. my conclusion those who are truly saved will stay saved. but the Blood is very powerful. the Bible says without the shedding of Blood there is no remission of sins. when adam and eve sinned God made clothing for them. by sacrificing animals. the 1st shedding of Blood for sins . .i dont want to get into a big debate can ya can,t ya . our salvation is by far more secure than what we give God credit for. To him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy- to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen. – Jude 1:24-25
Ephesians 2:13
But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. i simply refuse to focus on losing my salvation. i try every day to draw nigh close to God . days i fail { There is nothing you can do to lose your salvation. Eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow will always be there for you because you will live forever} that is not even Bible that is a man made up Bologna

 

[jocor]

There is nothing you can do to lose your salvation. Eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow will always be there for you because you will live forever} that is not even Bible that is a man made up Bologna

I know it is bologna. I made it up! It was a fictitious statement that a person believing OSAS would say. The fact that you realize it is bologna confirms the truth that there is something you can do to lose your salvation (reject Yeshua).

 

[ezra]

I know it is bologna. I made it up! It was a fictitious statement that a person believing OSAS would say. The fact that you realize it is bologna confirms the truth that there is something you can do to lose your salvation (reject Yeshua).

your adding words to my post and your gnat straining . i will say this there is far more scripture that proves we can be secure in Christ . that does not imply a live how you want security either View attachment 7710

 

[jocor]

your adding words to my post and your gnat straining . i will say this there is far more scripture that proves we can be secure in Christ . that does not imply a live how you want security either View attachment 7710

I truly believe we can be secure IN CHRIST. Someone who rejects Christ is no longer IN CHRIST.

 

[ezra]

Someone who rejects Christ is no longer IN CHRIST.

i have doubts they was ever saved to start with

 

[jocor]

i have doubts they was ever saved to start with

That is the OSAS pat answer for every verse that speaks against OSAS. Hebrews 6:4-6 clearly shows the person to be a true believer. You cannot fall away from something you were never in.

 

[MarkT]

That is the OSAS pat answer for every verse that speaks against OSAS. Hebrews 6:4-6 clearly shows the person to be a true believer. You cannot fall away from something you were never in.

I disagree. Tasting is not eating, and the same word that can make wheat grow can also make thorns grow Heb. 6:7-8, even making men haters of God. I'm not saying this happens instantly, but over time, false teachings and ignorance can cause men to question their beliefs and then fall into unbelief and become haters of God. Thorns and weeds will be gathered out of the kingdom and burned. True believers will be gathered into the barn at harvest.

 

[Sinthesis]

Mat 7:21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 - Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 - And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.​

Are those damned in this example without faith? They don't think so. The only reason Jesus gives for their rejection is the type of works they've done.

Luk 6:46 - And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?​

Clearly Jesus expects His followers to do some things, and not just bask in their redemption.

 

[Kidron]

Of course "God" saves people. He does it by grace through faith. If we have no faith, we have no salvation.

James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?​

The obvious answer to the latter question is "No"
When a person denies/renounces Yeshua, he becomes an UNBELIEVER. He no longer BELIEVES. He will die as such.
I am not "willingly" causing any to stumble, be confused or be misled. I am protecting them from the false sense of security you are trying to teach them. "Sure Bro, go right ahead and reject Christ. It won't matter. There is nothing you can do to lose your salvation. Eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow will always be there for you because you will live forever." Now that is what I consider confusing and misleading.

=========

Of course "God" saves people. He does it by grace through faith. If we have no faith, we have no salvation.


Well, its nice that you have changed your theology., as the last time you wrote me you said that "Faith saves".
Good job.
I always enjoy it when religious people adjust their theology wherever they think it needs to go next, just to try to win an argument they can never win.

James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?​

The obvious answer to the latter question is "No"



Actually, your answer is the answer that someone who is locked inside of James and Hebrews is going to give.
However, the bible is anything but "obvious"....and its obvious that you have not understood that when Paul says "we conclude that a person is justified by FAITH", .... that you cant then run to James and try to deny this, tho, you just did try it.
So, if you can understand that the epistles of the Apostles were not all written on the same day, or year, or decade, then you can begin to unlock yourself from James.
All you have to do, is understand that Paul is your gentile apostle who gives the revelation of the Grace of God, and not James.
This is because Paul was specially chosen by Christ to be the revealer of "justification by faith alone", and James in his early epistle didnt have this revelation yet, and this is why what he writes would seem to contradict about 2/3rds of the New Testament that Paul wrote.
Are you able to realize that "can faith save him", from James, this one verse,..... denies at least 5 Epistles that Paul wrote?
Do you not understand that you cant take 4 verses and try to undo 2/3rds of the New Testaments teaching that teaches that "Grace through Faith" is how salvation operates?



When a person denies/renounces Yeshua, he becomes an UNBELIEVER. He no longer BELIEVES. He will die as such.


Really???.....c'mon fella.
"denouncing Christ", is nothing more then sinning, similarly to backsliding or running a red light when you knew it was red, or not stopping at a stop sign when you are in a residential area and you do it willfully.
So, nearly every sin you sin today, jocor, you know you are doing it, and you do it anyway.
That goes for every "R" rated movie , and every dirty cable TV show , and 110 other sins committed, just like everyone else.
Do you use profanity?.....do you ever use the "F" word?......did you know you were using it?
Any others?
Have you ever cheated on your taxes?......Have you ever gotten too much change back at Walmart and didnt go back in and give it back?......Have you ever not given your employer the 8 hrs of good work that you are being paid to give them, and instead you wasted time , or even didnt go in because you wanted to be off that day and called in sick when you were not sick?
Are these willful sins?, Did you plan them?
So, if you can grasp that the blood atonement is God paying for all your sins, including if your 3 year old dies and you hate God and blame God for 10 years, or the rest of your life , etc.
Its all covered, ALL OF IT......as that is what the BLOOD OF GOD DOES FOR YOU..... no matter how you want to pretend that something you say is the one "sin" that "damns".
Ridiculous.
This world is full of bitter bitter believers who are angry at God and Jesus, because of some intense personal hurt that they have had to deal with, and are dealing with, and they will say all sorts of things to God, or about Jesus, and they are just as saved by the Blood when they say them, as they were the very day they were born again.
So, if and when you can come to the revelation that the Blood atonement is not a conditional salvation regarding how you behave after it is applied to you, then you will be able to unlock yourself from Hebrews and James.



I am not "willingly" causing any to stumble, be confused or be misled. I am protecting them from the false sense of security you are trying to teach them. "Sure Bro, go right ahead and reject Christ. It won't matter. There is nothing you can do to lose your salvation. Eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow will always be there for you because you will live forever." Now that is what I consider confusing and misleading.

You are on a Blood Atonement Thread, denying the Blood Atonement's work while pretending you are not here to harm people who are counting on this very Blood of God to save them.
So who's harming who ????????
Sorry, but i know what you are doing here, jocor, and I think most discerning readers who discern how i write and what i say and notice how i consistently lift up the eternal Blood and the Lord and the Lord, will see through your particular obsession to try to damn people on Threads who try to bless the Lord and His finished atonement.
See, im only here to bless the Lord, bless the finished work of the Cross, & show believers who have some questions about "rightly dividing the word", how to do it,....because i know how to do it..... and so, I offer this blessing and help to anyone who cares to read me and see for themselves.

Romans 4:5 """But to the one who does not WORK, but believes on God who declares the UNGODLY to be RIGHTEOUS, = their FAITH is credited for righteousness"""

 

[Ph8th]

He gave His life
For you and me
Crimson is the color of my Saviors’ blood
Atoned for the worlds sin
Once and for all
Ransom paid through Him

Crimson is the color of redemption
Through His blood
According to the riches
Of His grace
Our transgressions
Are forgiven

Crimson is the color of cleansing
He is light we walk with Him
His blood cleanses us
From all sin

Crimson is the color of justification
We are saved from God’s wrath
Through Him
Just as if we never sinned

Crimson is the color of sanctification
Through His discipline
We are separated and made
Holy as He is Holy

Crimson is the color of life
Life is found in the blood
No greater display
Of God’s love

Crimson is the color of intercession
Jesus fulfilled the law
Advocate for us all

Crimson is the color of access
He is the truth
He is the way
He is the life
The only way to the Father
​

peter

 

[Kidron]

He gave His life
For you and me
Crimson is the color of my Saviors’ blood
Atoned for the worlds sin
Once and for all
Ransom paid through Him

Crimson is the color of redemption
Through His blood
According to the riches
Of His grace
Our transgressions
Are forgiven

Crimson is the color of cleansing
He is light we walk with Him
His blood cleanses us
From all sin

Crimson is the color of justification
We are saved from God’s wrath
Through Him
Just as if we never sinned

Crimson is the color of sanctification
Through His discipline
We are separated and made
Holy as He is Holy

Crimson is the color of life
Life is found in the blood
No greater display
Of God’s love

Crimson is the color of intercession
Jesus fulfilled the law
Advocate for us all

Crimson is the color of access
He is the truth
He is the way
He is the life
The only way to the Father
​

peter

Perfect.

 

[smaller]

I know it is bologna. I made it up! It was a fictitious statement that a person believing OSAS would say. The fact that you realize it is bologna confirms the truth that there is something you can do to lose your salvation (reject Yeshua).

I have rejected many "Christ" postures.

The Christ depicted by the Roman catholics. The Christ depicted by the Eastern Orthodox. The Christ depicted by the charismatics. The Christ depicted by the freewill camps. The Christ depicted by John Calvin and other determinists. And particularly the Christ depicted by most forms of legalism.

At some point, you recognize that "all" of these various pale reflections of Christ depictions are not Christ. And because they are not, you cease to follow their forms of Christ. They all have a part. A piece. I recognize that anyone in faith is part of His Body. Vile as some portions of their teachings are. And, if their reflections are lies, which many are, then, they are simply blinded liars who can't face the Truth. And I can't, in good faith follow liars. I associate most closely with Protestants in general, and primarily because they were founded on the basis of PROTEST to impositions by other part sighted religious folk who turned into killers and torturers masquerading as thee only 'faithful.'

I've always sought the Whole Truth. Knowing that my own sights will always be partial while in this present body. And few of the various depictions of Christ can stand up to this fact, a very minor simple truthful sight. They all to the last one, believe they alone have the Whole Reflection. And not a one of them can own up to their own sect partiality, or their individual partial sight. No, not one.

There is one sad thing they all have in common that I learned along the way to avoid. They all fell into condemnations of each others.

And in this, they will remain Divinely Divided.

God in Christ really only gave us one simple command:

John 13:34
A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

 

[smaller]

When we read of "blood atonement" we should see, in the case of Jesus, blood undefiled by sin. A Spotless Lamb who sacrificed His Life for us, and cleared the way for us. His Blood was His Bodily Life.

Luke 22:20
Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.

We all know our own insufficiency well enough.