The Blood Atonement ?

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On questions of sufficiency, some claim that Jesus is insufficient, unless and until someone believes.

We might recognize that His Sacrifice was sufficient for us, while we were yet enemies.

Romans 5:10
For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Can you see?

When we were enemies, we were RECONCILED.

 

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IF a person who witnesses Jesus to anyone doesn't recognize that His Blood, His death, the sacrifice of His Life was in fact 'already' sufficient for another enemy of the Gospel, THEN that witness is telling the enemy that it is only THEIR sight, that will make Jesus sufficient.

Do we really put His sufficiency into the hands of an enemy of the Gospel? Do we tell them God in Christ is insufficient, because of their decision? That their decision makes the God of all creation sufficient?

Uh, no.

His Blood was in fact sufficient for ALL people, the moment it was shed.

It can not be 'our choice(s) that make Christ sufficient. It is up to us to 'witness' the fine matters of the Gospel. It is only upon Christ, whom HE decides to allow to SEE, and to take in His Life.

Romans 9:
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

 

[Douglas Summers]

So, let me ask you this..

1st Peter 1:18,19
"""" ..... redeemed with the precious blood of Christ""""

The Blood Atonement....
Lets look at it through this lens..

Here is some of what it does...

1.) It reconciles you to God and gives you eternal life with Him.
2.) it pays your sin debt.
3.) it achieves for you the sinless "in Christ" state of having the righteousness of Christ.
4.) It establishes you as a heaven bound family member, a Son of God, and a "joint Heir with Christ".
Romans 8:17 """""And since we are His children, we are his heirs.""""


Now, here are a few questions for you who are trying to "righteous work" your way to heaven.

Does the Blood Atonement establish all this FOR YOU that i listed, or does Faith establish it?
Does the Blood Atonement save you because your faith is accepted and God then saves you...and you are thereby SAVED ??...... or, does your faith as a process save you if you keep holding on to it?
It cant be both, as only one God does. (clue).<
So,..are you trusting in the Blood Atonement, or are you trusting in your progressive faith and your behavior to get you home to God?
Here is a hint....(Does your faith pay for your lifetime of sins, or does the Blood Atonement)??
It cant be both.
So, what are you trusting?

So, let me ask you this..

1st Peter 1:18,19
"""" ..... redeemed with the precious blood of Christ""""

The Blood Atonement....
Lets look at it through this lens..

Here is some of what it does...

1.) It reconciles you to God and gives you eternal life with Him.
2.) it pays your sin debt.
3.) it achieves for you the sinless "in Christ" state of having the righteousness of Christ.
4.) It establishes you as a heaven bound family member, a Son of God, and a "joint Heir with Christ".
Romans 8:17 """""And since we are His children, we are his heirs.""""

Now, here are a few questions for you who are trying to "righteous work" your way to heaven.

Does the Blood Atonement establish all this FOR YOU that i listed, or does Faith establish it?
Does the Blood Atonement save you because your faith is accepted and God then saves you...and you are thereby SAVED ??...... or, does your faith as a process save you if you keep holding on to it?
It cant be both, as only one God does. (clue).<
So,..are you trusting in the Blood Atonement, or are you trusting in your progressive faith and your behavior to get you home to God?
Here is a hint....(Does your faith pay for your lifetime of sins, or does the Blood Atonement)??
It cant be both.
So, what are you trusting?

So, let me ask you this..

1st Peter 1:18,19
"""" ..... redeemed with the precious blood of Christ""""

The Blood Atonement....
Lets look at it through this lens..

Here is some of what it does...

1.) It reconciles you to God and gives you eternal life with Him.
2.) it pays your sin debt.
3.) it achieves for you the sinless "in Christ" state of having the righteousness of Christ.
4.) It establishes you as a heaven bound family member, a Son of God, and a "joint Heir with Christ".
Romans 8:17 """""And since we are His children, we are his heirs.""""

Now, here are a few questions for you who are trying to "righteous work" your way to heaven.

Does the Blood Atonement establish all this FOR YOU that i listed, or does Faith establish it?
Does the Blood Atonement save you because your faith is accepted and God then saves you...and you are thereby SAVED ??...... or, does your faith as a process save you if you keep holding on to it?
It cant be both, as only one God does. (clue).<
So,..are you trusting in the Blood Atonement, or are you trusting in your progressive faith and your behavior to get you home to God?
Here is a hint....(Does your faith pay for your lifetime of sins, or does the Blood Atonement)??
It cant be both.
So, what are you trusting?

God's sacrifice of blood upon the cross in itself did not save us. It was the resurrection that gave us eternal life. For without the resurrection, we would still be in our sins. And the sacrifice on the cross would have been in vain. But the resurrection of Christ is the first fruits of those raised from the dead, and after that those at His coming. Because of what the Son of man did (the second Adam, our Lord Jesus) paid the law it's due. So with the Fathers approval of the debt paid that the law required, the resurrection of Christ was the first fruits of those who were crucified with Christ. (1 Corinthians Chapter 15) For it is the Father who raises up the dead in Christ (John 5:21; 2 Cor. 1:9) (Gal. 1:1) For the Christ was raised for our justification (Rom. 4:25)
The blood sacrifice was not atoning blood. For atoning blood only came from the blood of animals that covered the sins as an admission that thy or we were sinners worthy of death by the letter of the law, and were waiting for the promised redeemer. Atoning is never used in the NT because Christ never covered our sins, but washed them completely away(as far as the east is from the west. (Ps. 103: 12). And not only that, but Christ became our eternal proprietor (mercy seat) in the heavens for the eternal forgiveness for the weakness of the flesh (Romans Chapters 7 & 8) (Epistle to the Hebrews) (Book of 1 John). That is why the Gospel is so glorious. God in Jesus Christ has hedged around us His security for the born again believer. (Rom. 8: 28-39). Eternal Security!
It is a cleansing blood, not a covering blood.

In Christ
Douglas Summers

 

[Kidron]

God's sacrifice of blood upon the cross in itself did not save us. It was the resurrection that gave us eternal life. For without the resurrection, we would still be in our sins. And the sacrifice on the cross would have been in vain. But the resurrection of Christ is the first fruits of those raised from the dead, and after that those at His coming. Because of what the Son of man did (the second Adam, our Lord Jesus) paid the law it's due. So with the Fathers approval of the debt paid that the law required, the resurrection of Christ was the first fruits of those who were crucified with Christ. (1 Corinthians Chapter 15) For it is the Father who raises up the dead in Christ (John 5:21; 2 Cor. 1:9) (Gal. 1:1) For the Christ was raised for our justification (Rom. 4:25)
The blood sacrifice was not atoning blood. For atoning blood only came from the blood of animals that covered the sins as an admission that thy or we were sinners worthy of death by the letter of the law, and were waiting for the promised redeemer. Atoning is never used in the NT because Christ never covered our sins, but washed them completely away(as far as the east is from the west. (Ps. 103: 12). And not only that, but Christ became our eternal proprietor (mercy seat) in the heavens for the eternal forgiveness for the weakness of the flesh (Romans Chapters 7 & 8) (Epistle to the Hebrews) (Book of 1 John). That is why the Gospel is so glorious. God in Jesus Christ has hedged around us His security for the born again believer. (Rom. 8: 28-39). Eternal Security!
It is a cleansing blood, not a covering blood.

In Christ
Douglas Summers

The reason that Paul preaches 'Christ Crucified" 1st Corinthians 1:23 and not Christ resurrected as you are unfortunately preaching, is because its on the Cross and not in the tomb that the Blood of God is shed to pay for sins .
See it?
The "resurrection" didnt pay for sins, but its the Atoning Blood of GOD being shed by Christ on the Cross that is the "Cup" that Jesus asked God to take away, that is the payment for sins. It is in fact JESUS being crucified and dying and shedding His Blood that is the payment for your sins, and not the resurrection.
Salvation is all about judgement and acceptance.....Its Jesus being judged for our sins >0n a Cross< , and then we are accepted by God based on what HE accomplished on the Cross, when we have "faith" and exercise trust in Christ for our eternal salvation.
This is why Jesus said......"it is finished-accomplished", when He was on the Cross.
The resurrection is the proof that Jesus is who he said He is, but its the Blood that He shed which is the actual pardon being earned and offered.
This is the Blood of God that is "shed for the remission of sins"... Hebrews 9:22 & Matthew 26:28...with the idea being that something has to PAY for the sins of the world ,and that is the BLOOD of the Sinless Christ, and not the resurrection of Christ.


K

 

[reba]

Snarks are running in the A&T again... it is time to stop.. Maybe some of you do not know what a snark is or can be.. so i will 'line out' some and leave them in place.. don't whine about it just correct your way of 'speaking' I will be checking other threads in the A&T ../. IF i missed yours forgive me.. reba

 

[Douglas Summers]

The reason that Paul preaches 'Christ Crucified" 1st Corinthians 1:23 and not Christ resurrected as you are unfortunately preaching, is because its on the Cross and not in the tomb that the Blood of God is shed to pay for sins .
See it?
The "resurrection" didnt pay for sins, but its the Atoning Blood of GOD being shed by Christ on the Cross that is the "Cup" that Jesus asked God to take away, that is the payment for sins. It is in fact JESUS being crucified and dying and shedding His Blood that is the payment for your sins, and not the resurrection.
Salvation is all about judgement and acceptance.....Its Jesus being judged for our sins >0n a Cross< , and then we are accepted by God based on what HE accomplished on the Cross, when we have "faith" and exercise trust in Christ for our eternal salvation.
This is why Jesus said......"it is finished-accomplished", when He was on the Cross.
The resurrection is the proof that Jesus is who he said He is, but its the Blood that He shed which is the actual pardon being earned and offered.
This is the Blood of God that is "shed for the remission of sins"... Hebrews 9:22 & Matthew 26:28...with the idea being that something has to PAY for the sins of the world ,and that is the BLOOD of the Sinless Christ, and not the resurrection of Christ.


K

But Paul did preach the resurrection (1 Corinthians Chapter 15). Paul was persecuted for it (Acts Chapter 26) . That was the gospel that Paul preached (2 Tim. 3-10) . That was the whole sign and proof that Jesus was the Christ of God.

 

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The Blood of Purchase.

Acts 20:28
Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

1 Corinthians 6:
19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

No slave of Christ is even capable of "freeing themselves" from this purchase. All the cries that we "must make ourselves" slaves are not truthful.

We were bought, paid for, done. There is no reversing the redemption price that was paid.

Who is he that condemns? We might be cognizant of the deceiver?

Is such condemnation credible? Never! No person in faith has his own "basis of purchase" to begin with.

1 Corinthians 7:
22 For he that is called in the Lord, being a servant, is the Lord's freeman: likewise also he that is called, being free, is Christ's servant.
23 Ye are bought with a price; be not ye the servants of men.
24 Brethren, let every man, wherein he is called, therein abide with God.

God in Christ did not call a single one of us into condemnation.

Why then do any take that seat? If Jesus is 'not counting' sins against us, why are YOU?

2 Corinthians 5:19
that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them.

--->And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.<---

What is that MESSAGE?

"God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them."

Did God in Christ really tell you to go out and condemn people for sins? Uh, no! READ YOUR CONTRACT!

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I believe faith saves in exactly the same way Jesus meant it does when he said this:
“Your faith has saved you; go in peace.” (Luke 7:50 NASB)

 

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A lot of cyber ink, not just here, but everywhere that christians post, is devoted to endless condemnations.

Even we, when we read the scriptures, have a very hard time discerning JUDGMENTS.

A common problem is this one: Who did the ATONEMENT, the BLOOD PURCHASE, not pay for?

The answer to that question is very obvious. Satan and devils received NO BENEFITS from Christ's sacrifice. I might even think "most" of us can see this, and agree to that? Amen or not? Do you think we could ALL at least agree to this?

I've looked at the subjects of judgments and condemnations very very closely. And here is what I found, from Paul:

2 Corinthians 12:
7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

Now, a discerning reader, MAY read that, and come to the remarkable conclusion that the "messenger of Satan" in Paul's flesh, was not a beneficiary of BLOOD ATONEMENT.

How might this effect the way we see scriptural matters? I might say, dramatically. Because we have a "fulcrum" to place JUDGMENTS UPON, that are not Paul.

When we read scriptures like this one then, which 'most' believers shun and fear to read for themselves, we should not fear.

Matthew 7:
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Obviously we can see the WORKS are legit, and in accord with the WILL of God in Christ. We should also ALL see truthfully, that we 'do' all work iniquity.

IF Paul himself was alive at the time the above transpired, he too would hear those same Words.

WHY?

Just LOOK at Paul's construct of himself, and see the "messenger of Satan" in his flesh.

THEN you'll know "who" is being addressed.

 

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There is an Immutable Word Bond, between the Father and The Son.

They have set this IN STONE. It can not be changed:

Luke 4:
4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

On the other side of that coin, this is also written:

"-Get thee behind me, Satan-" (Luke 4:8)

 

[Kidron]

But Paul did preach the resurrection (1 Corinthians Chapter 15). Paul was persecuted for it (Acts Chapter 26) . That was the gospel that Paul preached (2 Tim. 3-10) . That was the whole sign and proof that Jesus was the Christ of God.

There is the fact of the resurrection, and then there is the preaching of the Cross.
One proves that Jesus is the Messiah, and the other is the Gospel that a person hears, then believes, then, trusts Christ. = God accepts this faith and gives them righteousness.

Let me ask you a question...
If you are correct, then here is how what you are saying sounds if someone is trying to win a soul.

" we are all sinners and God has sent the resurrection to pay for your sins".
Huh?
do WHAT?

So, do you understand that a person has to hear the Gospel, respond to it, and then God saves them?
This is why a preacher has to preach that a person is a sinner, is lost, and that its a sin issue that needs to be solved by a CROSS, and a Blood Atonement.........and that is why you preach "Christ crucified", as this is what a person is to understand is being OFFERED to them, to pay for their sins, so that they are = then reconciled to God...
You dont tell them that the "resurrection" is offered for their sins... as this does not PAY for SINS,....... because only the Blood redeems, only the Blood cleanses, only the Blood of Jesus washes away their sins, and that is why Paul preaches "Christ Crucified".
You dont preach the resurrection to save a soul, you preach a CROSS and a Savior ON IT.
"""" We preach CHRIST CRUCIFIED".......is what Paul says that he PREACHED...

So, its fine to teach that the resurrection is proof of the truth of Jesus as Messiah, but you dont offer this ALONE to a person as the Gospel, as its the Blood that takes care of their sins.
Soul saving is all about the Blood being shed, as "there is no redemption without the shedding of remission"?
huh?....do what?
No, the final answer is.....= "there is no redemption without THE SHEDDING OF Jesus's BLOOD" on a Cross.......<<<

 

[Kidron]

There is an Immutable Word Bond, between the Father and The Son.
They have set this IN STONE. It can not be changed:
Luke 4:
4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.
On the other side of that coin, this is also written:
"-Get thee behind me, Satan-" (Luke 4:8)

Yes, its the Blood of Jesus that is shed for the eternal redemption of a believer, as nothing else can pay for your sins.
Exactly.

 

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This is why a preacher has to preach that a person is a sinner, is lost, and that its a sin issue that needs to be solved by a CROSS, and a Blood Atonement

It was solved, one time, done deal. There is no "need" for it yet to be solved.

The Declaration was made, and Action, done.

When Paul "preached" the Cross, it was in the LIGHT that the resolution was done and finished at His Cross, by Christ.

Whether a person believes or not, the action is finished.

Romans 5:10
For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

There is a LOT of preaching in this world that says the CROSS was NO GOOD and of NO EFFECT, unless and until somebody "believes" it.

That simply isn't true. The Word and Work of God in Christ on the Cross is not "changed" or made "effective" or "not effective" by our acknowledgments or lack of same.

The Work was His, Alone. And entirely sufficient for the purposes intended.

Every last one of us standing here today did not make His Cross effective.

It was already sufficient for the purposes intended.

 

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Yes, its the Blood of Jesus that is shed for the eternal redemption of a believer, as nothing else can pay for your sins.
Exactly.

I believe that atonement was universal for mankind and the world, and of zero effect for the devil and his messengers.

And make these sights, according to these, from Paul:

Romans 5:10
For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

2 Corinthians 5:19
that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

 

[Kidron]

It was solved, one time, done deal. There is no "need" for it yet to be solved.

Its helpful if you comprehend the context of what i said... as this keeps your commentary from being invalid.
Now, didnt i explain that the sin debt of a sinner needs to be solved by a Cross?
Am i not talking about the sin debt of an unbeliever that has not been redeemed by the redeeming blood?
Do we not win the lost by showing them that their SINS have to be pardoned so that they can be reconciled to God by a Cross and the Blood that has been shed for them?

So, you are explaining that the sins of the world are judged and paid for, and that is true in the general sense, YET, if this blood is not applied to a person,....if the forgiveness of God that is offered as salvation is not received and applied to a person, then their sin debt is still theirs to pay.
This is why preachers preach and those who witness, witness.

 

[Kidron]

I believe that atonement was universal for mankind and the world, and of zero effect for the devil and his messengers.
.

Yes, salvation is an offer that is freely given to anyone who hears the Gospel, is convicted and drawn to the truth by the Holy Spirit, and then trusts Christ.
But, this offer is not universal in the sense that everyone is already saved and we are to tell them that they are already saved.
So, the offer of redemption is universal, but its conditional upon their "faith".

 

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Its helpful if you comprehend the context of what i said... as this keeps your commentary from being invalid.
Now, didnt i explain that the sin debt of a sinner needs to be solved by a Cross?
Am i not talking about the sin debt of an unbeliever that has not been redeemed by the redeeming blood?
Do we not win the lost by showing them that their SINS have to be pardoned so that they can be reconciled to God by a Cross and the Blood that has been shed for them?

So, you are explaining that the sins of the world are judged and paid for, and that is true in the general sense, YET, if this blood is not applied to a person,....if the forgiveness of God that is offered as salvation is not received and applied to a person, then their sin debt is still theirs to pay.
This is why preachers preach and those who witness, witness.

We make the 'declaration' of what was DONE. What was done, as to effect, doesn't change.

Belief, or not, is not something "we" grant, or are able to grant.

We "witness."

 

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But, this offer

The Cross was not an offer, made "effective" by sending in our coupons.

 

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"Oh, please believe in Jesus, so that His Cross and death" is THEN made effective!"

That is NOT the Gospel.

 

[Kidron]

We "witness."

thats exactly what i said.

We witness or preach to the LOST, a specific "Gospel" message..........then the Holy Spirit convicts the hearer, who then ither receives the pardon by FAITH, or rejects the Gospel which rejects the Christ who died to offer them the free gift of righteousness.
A preacher cant save anyone, and faith cant save anyone...
God saves, based entirely on what a hearer does with the Gospel message.