The Catholic Roots of Human Rights

[bibleberean]

1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

John 20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Hebrews 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Every time I say Jesus was "fully God and fully man" I do so on a biblical basis. If what a council taught is against the word of God then I reject the council.

That is why you don't see me praying to or through statues or paintings.

To the pit with Catholic councils!

 

[notapseudonym]

Oh yeas that piece of plaster is so powerful. I mean, dude!, I just can't find anytime to do anything but sit there and contemplate the awesomness of this piece of plaster. Oh! and then there is that canvas with some paint splatered, if I am having a good day I go bow down before it and, WOW!, I just praise it for all it has done for me. AMen and Alleluia brother

come on

 

[bibleberean]

You know idol worshippers in the Old Testament knew that their idols were only representations of the gods they worshipped.

They also expected miracles to come through these idols and looked at them as a channel to focus on their gods.

Millions of Catholics go to groves called Marian Shrines every year and get on their knees and pray to the images of Mary.

Many claim that the statues shed tears of blood or oil. Some claim that while on their knees before their idols that Mary appeared to them in a vision.

What does the bible say?

Psalms 115:4 Their idols are silver and gold, the work of men's hands.

Psalms 115:5 They have mouths, but they speak not: eyes have they, but they see not:

Psalms 115:6 They have ears, but they hear not: noses have they, but they smell not:

Psalms 115:7 They have hands, but they handle not: feet have they, but they walk not: neither speak they through their throat.

Psalms 115:8 They that make them are like unto them; so is every one that trusteth in them.

Habakkuk 2:18 What profiteth the graven image that the maker thereof hath graven it; the molten image, and a teacher of lies, that the maker of his work trusteth therein, to make dumb idols?

As a young Catholic I spent hours on my knees praying the rosary in front of statues of Mary.

I have been set free from this sin by the grace of my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

1 Thessalonians 1:9 For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;

1 John 5:21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.

 

[notapseudonym]

God forbade the worship of statues, but he did not forbid the religious use of statues. Instead, he actually commanded their use in religious contexts!

Check this out:

"And you shall make two cherubim of gold [i.e., two gold statues of angels]; of hammered work shall you make them, on the two ends of the mercy seat. Make one cherub on the one end, and one cherub on the other end; of one piece of the mercy seat shall you make the cherubim on its two ends. The cherubim shall spread out their wings above, overshadowing the mercy seat with their wings, their faces one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubim be" (Ex. 25:18–20).


for the altar of incense made of refined gold, and its weight; also his plan for the golden chariot of the cherubim that spread their wings and covered the ark of the covenant of the Lord. All this he made clear by the writing of the hand of the Lord concerning it all, all the work to be done according to the plan" (1 Chr. 28:18–19). David’s plan for the temple, which the biblical author tells us was "by the writing of the hand of the Lord concerning it all," included statues of angels.


Similarly Ezekiel 41:17–18 describes graven (carved) images in the idealized temple he was shown in a vision, for he writes, "On the walls round about in the inner room and [on] the nave were carved likenesses of cherubim."


The Religious Uses of Images



During a plague of serpents sent to punish the Israelites during the exodus, God told Moses to "make [a statue of] a fiery serpent, and set it on a pole; and every one who is bitten, when he sees it shall live. So Moses made a bronze serpent, and set it on a pole; and if a serpent bit any man, he would look at the bronze serpent and live" (Num. 21:8–9).

One had to look at the bronze statue of the serpent to be healed, which shows that statues could be used ritually, not merely as religious decorations.

Catholics use statues, paintings, and other artistic devices to recall the person or thing depicted. Just as it helps to remember one’s mother by looking at her photograph, so it helps to recall the example of the saints by looking at pictures of them. Catholics also use statues as teaching tools. In the early Church they were especially useful for the instruction of the illiterate. Many Protestants have pictures of Jesus and other Bible pictures in Sunday school for teaching children. Catholics also use statues to commemorate certain people and events, much as Protestant churches have three-dimensional nativity scenes at Christmas.

If one measured Protestants by the same rule, then by using these "graven" images, they would be practicing the "idolatry" of which they accuse Catholics. But there’s no idolatry going on in these situations. God forbids the worship of images as gods, but he doesn’t ban the making of images. If he had, religious movies, videos, photographs, paintings, and all similar things would be banned. But, as the case of the bronze serpent shows, God does not even forbid the ritual use of religious images.

It is when people begin to adore a statue as a god that the Lord becomes angry. Thus when people did start to worship the bronze serpent as a snake-god (whom they named "Nehushtan"), the righteous king Hezekiah had it destroyed (2 Kgs. 18:4).

Idolatry Condemned by the Church



Since the days of the apostles, the Catholic Church has consistently condemned the sin of idolatry. The early Church Fathers warn against this sin, and Church councils also dealt with the issue.

The Second Council of Nicaea (787), which dealt largely with the question of the religious use of images and icons, said, "[T]he one who redeemed us from the darkness of idolatrous insanity, Christ our God, when he took for his bride his holy Catholic Church . . . promised he would guard her and assured his holy disciples saying, ‘I am with you every day until the consummation of this age.’ . . . To this gracious offer some people paid no attention; being hoodwinked by the treacherous foe they abandoned the true line of reasoning . . . and they failed to distinguish the holy from the profane, asserting that the icons of our Lord and of his saints were no different from the wooden images of satanic idols."

The Catechism of the Council of Trent (1566) taught that idolatry is committed "by worshipping idols and images as God, or believing that they possess any divinity or virtue entitling them to our worship, by praying to, or reposing confidence in them" (374).

"Idolatry is a perversion of man’s innate religious sense. An idolater is someone who ‘transfers his indestructible notion of God to anything other than God’" (CCC 2114).

The Church absolutely recognizes and condemns the sin of idolatry. What anti-Catholics fail to recognize is the distinction between thinking a piece of stone or plaster is a god and desiring to visually remember Christ and the saints in heaven by making statues in their honor. The making and use of religious statues is a thoroughly biblical practice. Anyone who says otherwise doesn’t know his Bible.


http://www.catholic.com (great place to begin to learn about the Catholic Church)

 

[bibleberean]

Making a statue or on ornament is not the same as what the RCC promotes.

There can be no mistake that the RCC promotes bowing down and praying to (worship) of idols.

All the talk in the world cannot refute the scriptures against the RCC's vile practices.

Double speak from the mouth of the church that worships the Queen of Heaven.

People that make idols should be ashamed

Isaiah 44:9 They that make a graven image are all of them vanity; and their delectable things shall not profit; and they are their own witnesses; they see not, nor know; that they may be ashamed.

Isaiah 44:10 Who hath formed a god, or molten a graven image that is profitable for nothing?

Isaiah 45:16 They shall be ashamed, and also confounded, all of them: they shall go to confusion together that are makers of idols.

Ezekiel 14:6 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Repent, and turn yourselves from your idols; and turn away your faces from all your abominations.

Ezekiel 20:18 But I said unto their children in the wilderness, Walk ye not in the statutes of your fathers, neither observe their judgments, nor defile yourselves with their idols:

Hosea 8:4 They have set up kings, but not by me: they have made princes, and I knew it not: of their silver and their gold have they made them idols, that they may be cut off.

Psalms 115:4 Their idols are silver and gold, the work of men's hands.

Psalms 115:5 They have mouths, but they speak not: eyes have they, but they see not:

Psalms 115:6 They have ears, but they hear not: noses have they, but they smell not:

Psalms 115:7 They have hands, but they handle not: feet have they, but they walk not: neither speak they through their throat.

Psalms 115:8 They that make them are like unto them; so is every one that trusteth in them.

Habakkuk 2:18 What profiteth the graven image that the maker thereof hath graven it; the molten image, and a teacher of lies, that the maker of his work trusteth therein, to make dumb idols?

As a young Catholic I spent hours on my knees praying the rosary in front of statues of Mary.

I have been set free from this sin by the grace of my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

1 Thessalonians 1:9 For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;

1 John 5:21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.

Exodus 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

Exodus 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

Leviticus 26:1 Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God.

Deuteronomy 4:23 Take heed unto yourselves, lest ye forget the covenant of the LORD your God, which he made with you, and make you a graven image, or the likeness of any thing, which the LORD thy God hath forbidden thee.

Rome in it's tyranny has cursed me and every one who refuses to bow to their idols.


"... that by means of the images which we kiss and before which we uncover the head and prostate ourselves, we adore Christ and venerate the saints whose likeness they bear .... great profit is derived from all holy images, not only because the people are thereby reminded of the benefits and gifts bestowed on them by Christ, but also because through the saints the miracles of God and salutary examples are set before the eyes of the faithful, so that they may give God thanks for those things, may fashion their own and conduct in imitation of the saints and be moved to adore and love God and cultivate piety.

But if anyone should teach or maintain anything contrary to these decrees, let him be anathema." (H. J. Schroeder, O. P., The Canons And Decrees Of The Council Of Trent, Tan Books and Publishers, Inc., 1978, p. 216)

 

[bibleberean]

God has never ordered that we pray to or through statues.

He has clearly condemned it as seen by the above posts.

The apostles never practiced such an abomination.

Acts 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

 

[D46]

2 Kings 18:4 (KJV) He removed the high places, and brake the images, and cut down the groves, and brake in pieces the brasen serpent that Moses had made: for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it: and he called it Nehushtan.

We find that this brazen serpent had become an object of idolatry, and no doubt was supposed to possess, as a telesm or amulet, extraordinary virtues, and that incense was burnt before it which should have been burnt before the true God. So, Hezekiah had it destroyed.

It is not to be supposed that this superstitious reverence had been paid to it ever since the time of Moses, for such idolatry would not have been tolerated either by David or by Solomon in the early part of his reign, by Asa or Jehoshaphat had they been aware of such a folly. But the probability is, that the introduction of this superstition does not date earlier than the time when the family of Ahab, by their alliance with the throne of Judah, exercised a pernicious influence in paving the way for all kinds of idolatry.

Exodus 20:4-5 (KJV) Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

 

[bibleberean]

2 Kings 18:4 (KJV) He removed the high places, and brake the images, and cut down the groves, and brake in pieces the brasen serpent that Moses had made: for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it: and he called it Nehushtan.

We find that this brazen serpent had become an object of idolatry, and no doubt was supposed to possess, as a telesm or amulet, extraordinary virtues, and that incense was burnt before it which should have been burnt before the true God. So, Hezekiah had it destroyed.

It is not to be supposed that this superstitious reverence had been paid to it ever since the time of Moses, for such idolatry would not have been tolerated either by David or by Solomon in the early part of his reign, by Asa or Jehoshaphat had they been aware of such a folly. But the probability is, that the introduction of this superstition does not date earlier than the time when the family of Ahab, by their alliance with the throne of Judah, exercised a pernicious influence in paving the way for all kinds of idolatry.

Exodus 20:4-5 (KJV) Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

Good post brother.

Note: The RCC burns incense to the "Queen of Heaven". The RCC has transformed the humble mother of Jesus into an idol.

The thing that is so evil is that to refute their idolatrous doctrines is to be condemned to hell by Rome. (Rome is itself an apostate and has no such power)

Jeremiah 7:18 The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.

Like the apostate Jews the RCC will not repent of it's fornication.

Jeremiah 44:17 But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: for then had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil.

"... that by means of the images which we kiss and before which we uncover the head and prostate ourselves, we adore Christ and venerate the saints whose likeness they bear .... great profit is derived from all holy images, not only because the people are thereby reminded of the benefits and gifts bestowed on them by Christ, but also because through the saints the miracles of God and salutary examples are set before the eyes of the faithful, so that they may give God thanks for those things, may fashion their own and conduct in imitation of the saints and be moved to adore and love God and cultivate piety.

But if anyone should teach or maintain anything contrary to these decrees, let him be anathema." (H. J. Schroeder, O. P., The Canons And Decrees Of The Council Of Trent, Tan Books and Publishers, Inc., 1978, p. 216)

Rome has revived worship of the goddess

 

[stray bullet]

*sigh*
Please stop stealing other people's materials and posting them as your own, that's dishonest.

 

[bibleberean]

Idol worshippers in the Old Testament knew that their idols were only representations of the gods they worshipped.

They also expected miracles to come through these idols and looked at them as a channel to focus on their gods.

Millions of Catholics go to groves called Marian Shrines every year and get on their knees and pray to the images of Mary.

Many claim that the statues shed tears of blood or oil. Some claim that while on their knees before their idols that Mary appeared to them in a vision.

No matter how a person slices or dices it the RCC promotes idol worship.

If I built an altar to my mother and prayed to a statue of her I would be labeled as an idol worshipper and rightly so.

Yet the Catholic church condemns to the flames of eternal hell those who refute her doctrines.

Here is a prayer by a Pope in which he clearly is worshipping the false Mary of the RCC.

"Enraptured by the splendor of your heavenly beauty, and impelled by the anxieties of the world, we cast ourselves into your arms, O Immaculate Mother of Jesus and our Mother, Mary, confident of finding in your most loving heart appeasement of our ardent desires, and a safe harbor from the tempests which beset us on every side....


...O crystal Fountain of Faith, bathe our minds with the eternal truths! O fragrant Lily of All Holiness, captivate our hearts with your heavenly perfume! O Conqueress of Evil and Death, inspire in us a deep horror of sin, which makes the soul detestable to God and a slave of hell!...

..Receive, O most sweet Mother, our humble supplications, and above all obtain for us that, one day, happy with you, we may repeat before your throne that hymn which today is sung on earth around your altars: You are all-beautiful, O Mary! You are the glory, your are the joy, your are the honor of our people!Amen."

Pope Pius XII (1876-1958)
(Pontiff 1939-1958)
Blessed Art Thou: A Treasury of Marian Prayers and Devotions / Richard J. Beyer Imprint Notre Dame, IN : Ave Maria Press, c1996, BX2160.2 B46 1996, p. 134-135.

Hymns altars and around her throne?

Catholics look forward to being with their goddess.

No amount of double speak from RCC apologists can ignore the fact that this is worship.

Also,

Just because a person praises one deity above another does not mean that the deity of lessor importance is not receiving worship.

The real roots of spiritual enslavement can be found in RCC teachings.

Rome does not allow any variance from it's doctrine.

Millions have died for merely refusing to acknowledge that it is the supreme Church.

Only the unbiblical Pope and what the RCC calls the "successors of the apostles of Christ and Peter" are allowed to tell Catholic faitful what the scriptures mean.

A Catholic can be ex-communicated for even questioning the teachings of it's leadership.

Vatican II

"... it [the Roman Catholic Church] condemns with anathema those who say that indulgences are useless or that the Church does not have the power to grant them." (Vol. 1, p. 71)

"An indulgence is a remission before God of the temporal punishment due to sins whose guilt has already been forgiven, which the faithful Christian who is duly disposed gains under certain defined conditions through the Church's help when, as minister of Redemption, she dispenses and applies with authority the treasury of the satisfaction won by Christ and the saints." (Vol. 1, p. 75)

 

[Soma-Sight]

The Catholic Church played a big role in the development of our modern understanding of human rights. This fact has been neglected by historians but this is starting to change. Canon law and the concept of natural law set the stage for the understanding of human rights. Here is a quote from a non-Catholic Law Journal that I found. It's an interesing read.

Here is a good example of the loving Catholic Church in dealing with heretics.....

All hail the Church of Love! :angel: :angel: :angel:

 

[stray bullet]

I'm not aware that the Catholic Church actually executed anyone.

It was the governments at the time that executed people under the excuse of 'heresy'... but you go ahead and blame that on the Church.

bibleberean, your posts aren't even understandable anymore. Please stop randomly cut and pasting.

 

[bibleberean]

The roots of Papal Tyranny

ST. BARTHOLOMEW’S DAY MASSACRE

http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/popephony.htm

"...the public glee exhibited by Pope Gregory XIII when he learned of the butchery which had been committed. Consider the following amazing facts of history:

"The news of the bloody deed was received with unbounded joy by the pope at the Vatican. The Cardinal of Lorraine presented the messenger who brought the news to Rome with a thousand pieces of gold and exclaimed that the King’s heart had been filled with a sudden inspiration from God when he ordered the massacre (Smedley, History of the Reformed Religion in France, 1834, II, p. 36).

"The pope and his Cardinals proceeded at once to the High Altar, after the dispatches from Paris had been read in Conclave, to offer thanks for ‘the great blessing which Heaven vouchsafed to the Roman See and to all Christendom. Salvoes of artillery thundered at nightfall from the ramparts of St. Angelo; the streets were illuminated; and no victory ever achieved by the arms of the Pontificate elicited more tokens of festivity. The pope also, as if resolved that an indestructible evidence of the perversion of moral feeling which Fanaticism necessarily generates should be transmitted to posterity, gave orders for the execution of a commemorative Medal’ (Smedley, II, p. 35).

"This medal, an original of which can be seen in the British Museum inculcated the message that the massacre was the joint result of Papal counsel and Divine instrumentality. On one side of the medal is a profile of the pope surrounded by his name and title and on the other side an angel is depicted bearing in one hand a cross and in the other a sword with which he is killing a fallen host of Huguenots. The wording on this side is ‘The slaughter of the Huguenots 1572.’

BB adds:

There is so much evidence of the vile brutality of the papacy that one can compare denying the fact with the same "heads in the sand people" who deny the Jewish Holocaust took place in World War II.

 

[bibleberean]

The Inhuman Inquisition

http://www.baptistpillar.com/bd0582.htm

"Ad exstirpanda" issued by Pope Innocent IV in 1252. This document stated that heretics were to be "crushed like venomous snakes." It formally approved the use of torture.

Civil authorities were ordered to bum heretics. "The aforesaid Bull `Ad exstirpanda' remained thenceforth a fundamental document of the Inquisition, renewed or reinforced by several popes Alexander IV (1254-61), Clement IV (1265-68), Nicholas IV (1288-92), Boniface VIII (1294-1303), and others. The civil authorities, therefore, were enjoined by the popes, under pain of excommunication to execute the legal sentences that condemned impenitent heretics to the stake. It is to be noted that excommunication itself was no trifle, for, if the person excommunicated did not free himself from the excommunication within a year, he was held by the legislation of that period to be a heretic, and incurred all the penalties that affected heresy."

 

[D46]

Now, BB- that was hundreds of years ago and they don't do that anymore. This is the 21st Century and all the tortures and murders committed then are too barbaric and bazaare for todays "politically correct" church. According to Vatican II, we're no longer heretics but, "separated brethen." Now, if you believe that...I have some great real estate to sell you in New Orleans.

The fact is, that the Holocaust did happen and it wasn't the 16th Century. President Lincoln was assassinated by orders from the Jesuits as was Kennedy. In addition, Rome started and financed the 1st and 2nd World Wars as they did Vietnam. This is no shocking news to anyone who's done a bit of homework on history. It speaks for itself. My sources of information? Glad you asked.

http://www.nobeliefs.com/nazis.htm

http://liberalslikechrist.org/Catholic/ ... azisupport

http://www.vaticanassassins.org/

http://www.reformation.org/holocaus.html

Read here about the holocaust in Croatia and how Ante Pavelic was heralded as a hero of the faith by Pius XII. Pavelilc was a sadistic monster who was funneled through the Vatican ratlines to Brazil to avoid capture for the atrocities he committed and allowed in Croatia in the mid 1940's while WWII was going on. In addition, Stepinac was deeply involved in all this and from last account I had was beatified by Rome to be made a saint!! Is this the "award" Rome gives to murderers and sadists? Look at the Ustashi regime and how it was all Catholic backed to gain territory and riches from the booty stolen from those people who were sadistically tortured and killed because of their religion....semper eadem. Changed? No-Rome hasn't changed over the centuries, just her tactics.

 

[stray bullet]

Do you guys ever want to discuss anything or just promote your lies?

You don't really care, do you?

 

[bibleberean]

"Ridpath's History of the World includes an illustration of the work of the Inquisition in the Netherlands. Twenty-one Protestants are hanging from the tree. A man on a ladder is about to be hanged, below him is a priest holding a cross."



"The religious intolerance that prompted the Inquisition caused wars which involved entire cities. In 1209 the city of Beziers was taken by men who have been promised by the pope that by engaging in the crusade against heretics they would at death bypass purgatory and immediately enter heaven. Sixty thousand, it is reported, in this city perished by the sword while blood flowed in the streets. At Lavaur in 1211 the governor was hanged on a gibbet and his wife thrown into a well and crushed with stones. Four hundred people in this town were burned alive. The crusaders attended high mass in the morning, then proceeded to take other towns of the area. In this siege, it is estimated that 100,000 Albigenses fell in one day. Their bodies were heaped together and burned."

http://www.baptistpillar.com/bd0582.htm

Quoted from the Inhuman Inquisition.

Following quotations from http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/anti6.htm

"The following quotes are cited from The American Textbook of Popery which in turn quotes from the Directory for the Inquisitors (page numbers listed are for the Directory)--"

"He is a heretic who does not believe what the Roman Hierarchy teaches. --A heretic merits the pains of fire. --By the Gospel, the canons, civil law, and custom, heretics must be burned."--148, 169

"He is a heretic who deviates from any article of faith." --p. 143

"All sects of heretics are condemned and various punishments are appointed for them and their accomplices." --Pope Alexander IV, --p. 135

"Statutes that impede the execution of the duties which appertain to the office of Inquisitors are null and void." --Pope Urban IV, p. 106

"They who bury persons knowing them to be excommunicated, or their receivers, defenders, or favourers, shall not be absolved unless they dig up the corpse; and the place shall be deprived of the usual immunities of sepulture." --Pope Alexander IV, p. 104

"Inquisitors must discard all fear, and intrepidly proceed against heretical pravity."

"All defence is denied to heretics." p. 153

"For the suspicion alone of heresy, purgation is demanded." --p. 156

"Heretics are by right condemned." --p. 157

"He who is without the church can neither be reconciled nor saved." --p. 144

BB adds:

The above quotes are not directed at sincere Roman Catholics who truly believe they are in the church that God built.

I want to go on record as saying that I do not for a minute believe that the posters in this forum are capable of the horrible atrocities their church has committed in the past.

I do believe that there is a spirit in the Catholic church that is...and that there are many sinister forces in the Vatican that will one day come out of the closet.

I have said prayers for the nuns and priests I knew as a child in Catholic school.

 

[stray bullet]

That's fiction, bibleberean. And you don't even care, so long as you get to rant.

 

[Vic C.]

*sigh*
Please stop stealing other people's materials and posting them as your own, that's dishonest.

In all fairness, I see references in his posts. I see he's using verses, which you have accused him and others of not doing. He's not pointing out any particular person... he's not using derogatory names... BB is that you? 8-)

All kidding aside, I suggest you counter his accusations with how you view the verses he referenced or come up with other verses that counter what he is saying.

Thanks,
Vic

 

[Solo]

That's fiction, bibleberean. And you don't even care, so long as you get to rant.

One day you too will know the truth. Hopefully it won't be too late.