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The Catholic Roots of Human Rights

stray bullet said:
First you said salvation is because of the Catholic Church.

Salvation is because of Jesus Christ. Jesus said that certain things are necessary for salvation and these are the sacraments. They are not absolutely required in a legalistic way.

We are saved by Jesus Christ. We receive the grace He provided through the sacraments found in the Church.
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Hello SB

Do you believe that this grace is only available to people through these sacraments?
 
The Sacraments are not the only way to reciev grace. By prayer, charitable deeds, doing office work/job/schoolwork for His greater glory, these are other ways of gaining grace.
But with the above mentioned ways, the amount of grace is given, by God, according to your disposition. "Et opera operatum" or by the works of the worker.

Now the Sacraments on the other hand, there is an alotted mount of grace, determined and given by God, that you recieve by just partaking of that sacrament, wetehr it be Holy Communion (you know that Baal worship thing Jesus was refering too, yeah that), Confession, Confirmation, Baptism, Last Rites, Matrimomny, or Holy Orders, there is a set amount of grace everyone recieves. "Et Opera operantis" Or by the very fact the work has been preformed. However, this is the really cool part, God allows an infinte amount of grace to be accessible in every sacrament, however this "extra grace" depends on the disposition of our hearts. It is like he is standing there in front of me, during the Mass and I just recived Communion, He begins to pour out His graces from a big gass barrel and I am standing there with my little thimble trying to catch some. Oh and no, God does not store grace in a gas barrel.
 
The Sacraments are not the only way to reciev grace. By prayer, charitable deeds, doing office work/job/schoolwork for His greater glory, these are other ways of gaining grace.
But with the above mentioned ways, the amount of grace is given, by God, according to your disposition. "Et opera operatum" or by the works of the worker.
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All works...you don't "gain grace". Grace is God's unmerited favor toward us...a free gift.

(That's a freebee, and it didn't even come from "the chair!")

Ephesians 2:8-9 (KJV) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

http://www.nobeliefs.com/nazis.htm
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Bookmarked
 
D46 said:
The Sacraments are not the only way to reciev grace. By prayer, charitable deeds, doing office work/job/schoolwork for His greater glory, these are other ways of gaining grace.
But with the above mentioned ways, the amount of grace is given, by God, according to your disposition. "Et opera operatum" or by the works of the worker.
Click to expand...

All works...you don't "gain grace". Grace is God's unmerited favor toward us...a free gift.

(That's a freebee, and it didn't even come from "the chair!")

Ephesians 2:8-9 (KJV) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

[quote:1461f]http://www.nobeliefs.com/nazis.htm
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Bookmarked[/quote:1461f]

Good post. We are saved by grace through faith. There is no grace at all in the sacraments of the Catholic church...

It is an insult to Christ and His great sacrifice to say otherwise.

Faith in the Sacraments of the harlot church is not a way to heaven but an open door to hell.

Council of Trent

"If anyone says that the sacraments of the New Law are not necessary for salvation but are superfluous, and that without them or without the desire of them men obtain from God through faith alone the grace of justification, though all are not necessary for each one, let him be anathema." (ibid., p. 52 -- Seventh Session, Sacraments In General, Canon 4)

The bible says...

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

If a person cannot be saved by the old Jewish law how much less by the laws of the pagan abomination know as the Roman Catholic Church?
 
Has anyone researched the black pope and the Jesuits?, I am just starting to looking into this and it is very eye opening to say the least, can someone who knows give me a short version of this, thanks
 
Here's a link to the Jesuit Oath. Male or female Jesuits are trained to infiltrate various aspects of society from the universities and hospital to businesses, corporations, churches and hospitals. Just about every avenue of society. They can destroy a person, business or organization, have someone "snuffed out" for the greater glory of the Vatican. Their avenues can be of the Youth Action group to those trained in infiltration and sabotage. Ever heard of Kathryn Kulhman? She was associated with the Legion of Mary and was sent by the Vatican to infiltrate Pentacostals and Protestants through the Charismatic movement to push the ecumentical thing and to persuade her audience that Protestants and Catholics were one and both saved but, that they should stay in their own organization. She was maybe the first to push the "Love gospel". A great under cover agent for Rome.

http://www.ianpaisley.org/article.asp?ArtKey=jesuit

The Black Pope is the man behind the pope...a high ranking Jesuit. Also known as the Jesuit General-the brains behind the Vatican.

http://www.geocities.com/propheticangel ... ckpope.htm
 
D46 said:
Here's a link to the Jesuit Oath. Male or female Jesuits are trained to infiltrate various aspects of society from the universities and hospital to businesses, corporations, churches and hospitals. Just about every avenue of society. They can destroy a person, business or organization, have someone "snuffed out" for the greater glory of the Vatican. Their avenues can be of the Youth Action group to those trained in infiltration and sabotage. Ever heard of Kathryn Kulhman? She was associated with the Legion of Mary and was sent by the Vatican to infiltrate Pentacostals and Protestants through the Charismatic movement to push the ecumentical thing and to persuade her audience that Protestants and Catholics were one and both saved but, that they should stay in their own organization. She was maybe the first to push the "Love gospel". A great under cover agent for Rome.

http://www.ianpaisley.org/article.asp?ArtKey=jesuit

The Black Pope is the man behind the pope...a high ranking Jesuit. Also known as the Jesuit General-the brains behind the Vatican.

http://www.geocities.com/propheticangel ... ckpope.htm
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Ironic that you would cite Ian Paisley in a screed against 'Catholic Operatives.' Paisley is a well known provocteur, and associate with the Ulster Defense Association. The UDA were responsible for the murders of 600 Catholics between 1971 and 1976. Paisley was a militant Protestant leader in the midst of the bloody conflict between Protestants and Catholics in Northern Ireland in the 1960's, and promotes himself as "Dr Paisley"- though he only received an honorary doctorate from Bob Jones University- and even his ordination is bogus.

Paisley is, essentially, the Irish David Duke.
 
Paisley is, essentially, the Irish David Duke.
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I know very little about Paisley. Never heard of him until I got linked to his site one night. Nevertheless, he's not the oone that wrote the Oath. In this case, he is just the messenger as many places post this same oath.

http://www.remnantofgod.org/jes-oth.htm

http://www.angelfire.com/on/3angels/jesuitoath.html

http://www.hissheep.org/catholic/the_je ... posed.html


The Knights of Columbus, Knights of Malta, and the ILLUMINATI also take a very similar oath.

http://pandora.nla.gov.au/pan/10528/200 ... esuits.htm

David Duke-now, there's a name I haven't heard in years. I don't know whatever happened to him but, I trust he got due recompense for the lies of supremacy he promoted. I hope the Lord rewards him according to his deeds of bigotry.
 
D46 said:
Here's a link to the Jesuit Oath. Male or female Jesuits are trained to infiltrate various aspects of society from the universities and hospital to businesses, corporations, churches and hospitals. Just about every avenue of society. They can destroy a person, business or organization, have someone "snuffed out" for the greater glory of the Vatican. Their avenues can be of the Youth Action group to those trained in infiltration and sabotage. Ever heard of Kathryn Kulhman? She was associated with the Legion of Mary and was sent by the Vatican to infiltrate Pentacostals and Protestants through the Charismatic movement to push the ecumentical thing and to persuade her audience that Protestants and Catholics were one and both saved but, that they should stay in their own organization. She was maybe the first to push the "Love gospel". A great under cover agent for Rome.

http://www.ianpaisley.org/article.asp?ArtKey=jesuit

The Black Pope is the man behind the pope...a high ranking Jesuit. Also known as the Jesuit General-the brains behind the Vatican.

http://www.geocities.com/propheticangel ... ckpope.htm
Click to expand...

You know the government has aliens lociked up too, right?

do you really believe this stuff?
 
The Pope is not infallible.
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I think some Catholics today need to brush up on their church's history. Claims of infallibility were first made in the eleventh century, Pope Gregory being one of the first to assume it. The Jesuits and Italian bishops held that infallibility was vested in the Pope. The French bishops held that it was the Church councils that were infallible. Does the Clouncil of Trent not uphold the infalliability of the Pope...especially when speaking "ex cathedra" or from the chair? Did not Vatican II ratify this and other dogma from the Council of Trent? To do contrary to this would prove that the church has not held to her motto of being "semper eadem." You may not believe some of this but,the RCC surely does and you can't go against what Rome teaches lest you be found a heretic. If it's a pronouncement from the chair that black is white and white is black, you have no recourse but to accept it.

do you really believe this stuff?
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Sure do. I remember Kathryn Kuhlman very well. I saw her on TV many times as she captivated her audience and did "healings" on live TV. No reruns back then-everything was live. It was all a trick...sort of like Benny Hinn setting people up ahead of time. I didn't know that then as I was a young and impressionable teenager.
 
D46 said:
The Pope is not infallible.
Click to expand...

I think some Catholics today need to brush up on their church's history. Claims of infallibility were first made in the eleventh century, Pope Gregory being one of the first to assume it. The Jesuits and Italian bishops held that infallibility was vested in the Pope. The French bishops held that it was the Church councils that were infallible. Does the Clouncil of Trent not uphold the infalliability of the Pope...especially when speaking "ex cathedra" or from the chair? Did not Vatican II ratify this and other dogma from the Council of Trent? To do contrary to this would prove that the church has not held to her motto of being "semper eadem." You may not believe some of this but,the RCC surely does and you can't go against what Rome teaches lest you be found a heretic. If it's a pronouncement from the chair that black is white and white is black, you have no recourse but to accept it.
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The Pope is not infallible.
God is.
When the Pope or an apostle has God speaking through him, as He did with John, Peter, Matthew, Mark, Luke, Paul, et cetera, he is making an infallible statement. That's why the bible is infallible and considered the word of God, because God spoke through these men, not because thse men are infallible.

The Pope shares this same gift of the Holy Spirit- it was not a gift just for the first generation of Christians. When one says the Pope is infallible, it can be misleading. The Pope is just a sinner like the rest of us, but he has the potential for the gift of the Holy Spirit on speaking of matters of faith like the apostles.
 
The Holy Spirit can also speak through an ecumenical council as well. A belief shared by the Orthodox as well as the Catholics.
 
stray bullet said:
The Holy Spirit can also speak through an ecumenical council as well. A belief shared by the Orthodox as well as the Catholics.
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The Holy Spirit did not speak through the Council of Trent or Vatican II.

That was the uhholy Spirit.

The Catholic Church is a cult.

Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Vatican II

"Basing itself on scripture and tradition, it teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mk. 16:16; Jn. 3:5), and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through baptism as through a door. Hence, they could not be saved who knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it, or to remain in it." (Vol. 1, pp. 365 and 366)

Council of Trent

"If anyone says that the sacraments of the New Law are not necessary for salvation but are superfluous, and that without them or without the desire of them men obtain from God through faith alone the grace of justification, though all are not necessary for each one, let him be anathema." (ibid., p. 52 -- Seventh Session, Sacraments In General, Canon 4)

We have the bible and the record of the true councils of the apostles and prophets of the church for our guidance.

Here is where the Holy Ghost spoke through the men who laid the foundation of the church.

Acts 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;

Acts 15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

The false antichrist church wants to lay their false "New Law" on us.

Never trust the Church of Rome!
 
You don't even make argument or statements, you just cut and paste as if I'm supposed to know what you are objecting to exactly.
 
Robert is blissfully unaware that SB was speaking of the Seven ecumenical councils, as well as any other ecumenical council which could potentially take place (we, of course, do not consider any council without all the Patriarchates to be 'ecumenical').

The position Robert has taken is that the last accepted and acceptable council was at Jerusalem. This is not an unusal position for Baptist Fundamentalists to take, though they quote the decisions of the 1st, 2nd and 4th ecumenical councils often.

Every time they say "fully God, fully man"
Everytime they say 'hypostatic union."
Every time they pray Father, Son, Holy Spirit (which they do rarely if ever)
Every time they speak of the Trinity
 
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