The Chair of Peter

[JLB]

Infallibility does not mean a pope cannot commit a sin in his personal life.

in·fal·li·ble
/inˈfaləb(ə)l/

adjective

• incapable of making mistakes or being wrong

Please turn away from following the pope or any other man, and follow Jesus Christ as your Lord.




JLB

 

[Walpole]

in·fal·li·ble
/inˈfaləb(ə)l/

adjective

• incapable of making mistakes or being wrong

Exactly. As opposed to:

impeccable​

adjective
faultless; flawless; irreproachable: impeccable manners.
not liable to sin; incapable of sin

Infallibility ≠ impeccability

Thanks for making my point.

Please turn away from following the pope or any other man, and follow Jesus Christ as your Lord.




JLB

The Lord Jesus Christ established the Church. As such, by definition, she must be infallible. Otherwise, you have no way of knowing what is or is not the truth.

 

[Niblo]

in·fal·li·ble
/inˈfaləb(ə)l/

adjective

• incapable of making mistakes or being wrong

Please turn away from following the pope or any other man, and follow Jesus Christ as your Lord.




JLB

Catholics believe that the very best way to follow Christ is to observe the teachings and practices of their Church....under the leadership of the Pope....Christ's Vicar on earth. It really is that simple.

 

[JLB]

Catholics believe that the very best way to follow Christ is to observe the teachings and practices of their Church.

The only way to follow Christ is to be led by His Spirit that dwells within you, to obey Him and His Doctrine, as well as His Commandments.


For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
Romans 8:14





JLB

 

[Mungo]

The only way to follow Christ is to be led by His Spirit that dwells within you, to obey Him and His Doctrine, as well as His Commandments.


For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
Romans 8:14





JLB

And how do we know what are Christ's Doctrines and Commandments that we have to follow?

 

[Niblo]

The only way to follow Christ is to be led by His Spirit that dwells within you, to obey Him and His Doctrine, as well as His Commandments.

Is this why we have a host of Christian denominations these days....many at variance with each other...and every single one convinced that they....and they alone... are the 'true' believers?

Is Christ the Lord of Chaos?

 

[WIP]

The Lord Jesus Christ established the Church. As such, by definition, she must be infallible. Otherwise, you have no way of knowing what is or is not the truth.

But when the church is administered by fallible people there is a potential for error, corruption, and even out right deception. Paul wrote of evidence of this in his letters to the Corinthians and Galatians. Galatians, chapter 2, also speaks of Paul having to admonish Peter for his hypocrisy. So even Peter was subject to error and likewise his successors. This is why I don't think it is necessarily good to place them too high on a pedestal. We all must exercise discernment in all things.

 

[WIP]

Is this why we have a host of Christian denominations these days....many at variance with each other...and every single one convinced that they....and they alone... are the 'true' believers?

Is Christ the Lord of Chaos?

You are correct that Protestant denominations are way too many and I full heartedly agree. But, is it any better to blindly follow a church in error? Just because the Catholic church generally follows the one man, the Pope, doesn't necessarily mean it is any more correct or righteous. Are we not to exercise discernment? I'm not making accusations but simply asking the questions.

 

[Walpole]

But when the church is administered by fallible people there is a potential for error, corruption, and even out right deception. Paul wrote of evidence of this in his letters to the Corinthians and Galatians. Galatians, chapter 2, also speaks of Paul having to admonish Peter for his hypocrisy. So even Peter was subject to error and likewise his successors. This is why I don't think it is necessarily good to place them too high on a pedestal. We all must exercise discernment in all things.

The Apostles complained about and corrected errors, not of the Church, but of individual Christians in their own days. It was St. Paul who called the Church the "pillar and foundation of the truth." (cf. 1 Tim 3:15) If the Church was fallible in her teachings, she could not rightfully be called the pillar and foundation of the truth.

As for St. Peter's admonishment, St. Paul did not correct and admonish him about a matter of doctrine, but rather for his hypocrisy, as you pointed out...

Gal 2:14 ---> "But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, 'If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?'"

 

[Mungo]

You are correct that Protestant denominations are way too many and I full heartedly agree. But, is it any better to blindly follow a church in error? Just because the Catholic church generally follows the one man, the Pope, doesn't necessarily mean it is any more correct or righteous. Are we not to exercise discernment? I'm not making accusations but simply asking the questions.

We don't blindly follow a church in error. We follow the Church that Jesus Christ promised to lead into all truth (Jn 13:16); the Church that was entrusted with the "good treasure", the sound teaching of Christ to others to guard and pass on in their turn. (2 Tim 1:13-14).

And we don't "generally follow one man". The vast majority of doctrinal decisions are made by general councils, just as the decision about circumcision was made by a council of leaders in Acts 15.

Scripture declares the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth (1 Tim 3:15)

It is the Church that Jesus gave as the final arbiter in disputes (Mt 18:17). He did not say consult the scriptures but the Church.

I believe this Church is found in the fullness of truth in the Catholic Church which has unbroken succession from the apostles under the leadership of Peter and his successors.

We are warned in scripture against the dangers of private interpretation of scripture (2 Pet 1:20 & 2Pet 3:16)

 

[WIP]

We don't blindly follow a church in error. We follow the Church that Jesus Christ promised to lead into all truth (Jn 13:16); the Church that was entrusted with the "good treasure", the sound teaching of Christ to others to guard and pass on in their turn. (2 Tim 1:13-14).

And we don't "generally follow one man". The vast majority of doctrinal decisions are made by general councils, just as the decision about circumcision was made by a council of leaders in Acts 15.

Scripture declares the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth (1 Tim 3:15)

It is the Church that Jesus gave as the final arbiter in disputes (Mt 18:17). He did not say consult the scriptures but the Church.

I believe this Church is found in the fullness of truth in the Catholic Church which has unbroken succession from the apostles under the leadership of Peter and his successors.

We are warned in scripture against the dangers of private interpretation of scripture (2 Pet 1:20 & 2Pet 3:16)

The Church that Paul was speaking of in 1 Timothy was not necessarily the Catholic church of today. He was speaking of the Church of Christ and I do not believe they are necessarily the same thing. Having an unbroken succession of apostles does not necessarily preclude an unblemished succession. I do not believe The Church is "found in the fullness of truth in the Catholic church." That is not to say that any one Protestant church holds the banner of truth either. As I've already indicated, I believe the truth lies somewhere in the middle and I pray that one day the Holy Spirit will lead me to the Truth and that I will recognize it when He does.

 

[Paul E. Michael]

As a courtesy, please read through the thread before accusing me of not answering a question. Had you done so, you would've seen that I did answer his question. It can be found ---> Here

"Your question is based on a false premise. The pope is not controlled by anyone no more than you are controlled by anyone."

I then followed this answer by explaining what infallibility is.

Still, you have not answered the question WIP had asked you. As a courtesy, please read the question WIP asked you:

So is it Catholic belief that the current Pope is controlled by God Himself and therefore he is infallible?

Yes or No?

Either it is Catholic belief that the current pope is controlled by God Himself and is therefore infallible, or it is not.

 

[GodsGrace]

But when the church is administered by fallible people there is a potential for error, corruption, and even out right deception. Paul wrote of evidence of this in his letters to the Corinthians and Galatians. Galatians, chapter 2, also speaks of Paul having to admonish Peter for his hypocrisy. So even Peter was subject to error and likewise his successors. This is why I don't think it is necessarily good to place them too high on a pedestal. We all must exercise discernment in all things.

All churches are administered by fallible people.
The Pope guides the church. He's not a dictator.
I find that independent churches are the most dangerous because the Pastor answers to no one.

 

[Walpole]

Still, you have not answered the question WIP had asked you. As a courtesy, please read the question WIP asked you:



Yes or No?

Either it is Catholic belief that the current pope is controlled by God Himself and is therefore infallible, or it is not.

"Your question is based on a false premise. The pope is NOT controlled by anyone no more than you are controlled by anyone."

I'm sorry, but I thought the word "NOT" in my answer to WIP's question made it perfectly clear the answer is negative; that is, no.

Infallibility does not in any way imply control, impeccability, inspiration, or revelation. Again, it is a definitive answer as to what is or is not the faith of the Church.

 

[GodsGrace]

in·fal·li·ble
/inˈfaləb(ə)l/

adjective

• incapable of making mistakes or being wrong

Please turn away from following the pope or any other man, and follow Jesus Christ as your Lord.




JLB

The Pope is not infallible.
He is so only in matters of faith or morals.
In the past 100 years, or more, this has only happened 2 times.

 

[Walpole]

All churches are administered by fallible people.
The Pope guides the church. He's not a dictator.
I find that independent churches are the most dangerous because the Pastor answers to no one.

Good point. I find the Protestant objection is not so much to the fact that there exists a pope, but rather that anyone other than themselves dare lay claim to the authority he possesses!

 

[GodsGrace]

Still, you have not answered the question WIP had asked you. As a courtesy, please read the question WIP asked you:



Yes or No?

Either it is Catholic belief that the current pope is controlled by God Himself and is therefore infallible, or it is not.

No.
The current Pope is not controlled by God.

I'd say that the only faith that believes God controls every person, is the reformed faith.

 

[GodsGrace]

Good point. I find the Protestant objection is not so much to the fact that there exists a pope, but rather that anyone other than themselves dare lay claim to the authority he possesses!

Well, it's complicated.
Protestants believe that no man should be followed but only scripture.

This is a great idea.
The problem is that different MEN read the bible and come to different conclusions as to what it is teaching.

Then I hear that the Holy Spirit guides us.
Is there more than one Holy Spirit since He uses different guidance systems and outcomes and gives to some persons rather odd ideas.

Catholicism is bigger than the Pope.
He does not rule over it.
Other Bishops keep him in check when necessary. He's not a dictator.

In Protestantism not only each denomination wants to be correct, but almost each person.

 

[Paul E. Michael]

"Your question is based on a false premise. The pope is NOT controlled by anyone no more than you are controlled by anyone."

I'm sorry, but I thought the word "NOT" in my answer to WIP's question made it perfectly clear the answer is negative; that is, no.

Infallibility does not in any way imply control, impeccability, inspiration, or revelation. Again, it is a definitive answer as to what is or is not the faith of the Church.

I'm sorry, but you did not answer WIP's question:

So is it Catholic belief that the current Pope is controlled by God Himself and therefore he is infallible?

He did NOT ask you "Is the current Pope controlled by God Himself and therefore he is infallible?" You have not answered the question WIP asked you.

 

[Paul E. Michael]

The Pope is not infallible.

So the Pope is not infallible?

He is so only in matters of faith or morals.

So the Pope is infallible?

In the past 100 years, or more, this has only happened 2 times.

So, in the past 100 years, or more, no more than two Popes have been infallible?