The Charismatic Church movement

[Rollo Tamasi]

If I understand you correctly, I think that is a good fruit inspector.

Yes Deborah14, you do understand.

 

[Kathi]

That is people who do not believe there are any gifts today.

Do you believe in healing?
Gift of wisdom?
Gift of knowledge?

Then you are not cessationism.

That is not true.Cessationism is the view that the "miracle gifts" of tongues and healing have ceased.They believe that God can and does perform miracles today,the Holy Spirit no longer uses individuals to preform miraculous signs.
If you read my previous post #221 you would see that I do believe in some gifts today.

 

[Deborah13]

No one here has said speaking in tongues is of the devil, if they did I missed it.

In fact, I am stating again and again that I know the gift of tongues is for today, I just don't believe God said this one gift is for everyone, I see him saying not every gift is for every believer and that Paul said we should seek other gifts above this one.

Yet, we have people here who seem to believe speaking in tongues is what makes the Holy Spirit do work through me and without it I can not have any other supernatural gifts, so without the gift of speaking in tongues I and others are useless in the Kingdom of God. Without this "special" baptism those of us who do not speak in tongues are pretty pointless in the Church - that is what you all are saying, meaning to or not.

Jesse, I must have missed some posts. I have not seen anyone say that?
I believe you could do all the gifts and never speak in tongues.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I guess not because according to all of you - those who do not speak int tongues:
1). Have never had an encounter with God - how can we when the Holy Spirit is not with us
2). Somehow we have no idea what it means to even be a follower of Christ, How can we when the Holy Spirit is not with us
3). We are missing out on all that is of God, because how can we have any holy or experiences from God because we do not have the Holy Spirit with us?

Okay, hear me out.
John 20:22;
"And with that he breathed on them and said, receive the Holy Spirit".

Acts 2:4;
"All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them"

Two separate events, two different results.
That's what I am talking about.
Say what you want about the tongues being another language, that you need interpreters, it's not speaking of a language between you and God, etc..

It is still two separate events of being filled with the Holy Spirit.

 

[Kathi]

Jesse, I must have missed some posts. I have not seen anyone say that?
I believe you could do all the gifts and never speak in tongues.

I have not heard anyone say that as well and if the subject of tongues divides the members of this forum that is not of God.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I have not heard anyone say that as well and if the subject of tongues divides the members of this forum that is not of God.

Kathi/Deborah14/Rollo/Jesse
Nope, we're all together.

 

[Jesse]

Okay, hear me out.
John 20:22;
"And with that he breathed on them and said, receive the Holy Spirit".

Acts 2:4;
"All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them"

Two separate events, two different results.
That's what I am talking about.
Say what you want about the tongues being another language, that you need interpreters, it's not speaking of a language between you and God, etc..

It is still two separate events of being filled with the Holy Spirit.

I never said anything of what you claim I said here. Not a word about interpreters, not a word about it being a different language, not a word about speaking of language between God and myself - not one word about any of it.

I know what you're talking about, you're talking about people who claim Christ but don't speak in tongues are not really believers, otherwise we would have the Holy Spirit and speak in tongues.

Most of us have heard all of this before. You are someone "special", have placed yourself in a different "class" than those who do not speak in tongues, and are somehow beyond and above everyone else.

I was saved when I was 8 years old, God would take me out of myself every night and held me - why? Because He was the only Father I knew, I knew He loved me, because I was abused and would be terrified at night, He was the ONLY comforter I knew. It happened every night for several years. It's difficult to describe how God did take me out of myself, but the only thing I can think of was that God took my spirit or my soul and held it. There is more, but it seems it may be a waste of time to give my entire testimony at this point, only because the proof of speaking in tongues is absent and this is the only thing that will satisfy all of you.

So for you all to make the claim that I have not had the 2nd baptism of the Holy Spirit and do not have supernatural gifts, because I don't have to use speaking in tongues to prove I am indwelt by the Holy Spirit, I'm pretty sure God is having a good laugh about right now - or shaking His head, either one.

You all have taken what is Holy and twisted it to make others feel like they are inadequate and worthless in the Kingdom of God.

 

[Deborah13]

IMO if tongues is the highlight of your walk with Jesus ya best go back and read some more...

Your walk with the Lord is your walk... as you sorta said all our walks are not exactly alike... as long as you are walking with the Master you are on the right path...

:nod

I guess not because according to all of you - those who do not speak int tongues:
1). Have never had an encounter with God - how can we when the Holy Spirit is not with us
2). Somehow we have no idea what it means to even be a follower of Christ, How can we when the Holy Spirit is not with us
3). We are missing out on all that is of God, because how can we have any holy or experiences from God because we do not have the Holy Spirit with us?

Jesse, I have not see where one person in this thread say anything like that.

I have not heard anyone say that as well and if the subject of tongues divides the members of this forum that is not of God.

What not of God? The conversation with different opinions? The most division I have ever seen is between OSAS and non-OSAS.

I'm with Rollo, we are together. What bind us all together is much stronger than our piddily little discussions. The love of Christ.

 

[Eugene]

I used to teach that all received the infilling of the Holy Spirit when they received Christ, and I quoted the following scripture as the basis for not believing the continuation of spiritual gifts such as prophesy and tongues for this present age.

1 Cor 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
1 Cor 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. When? Would it be when we are in Jesus’ presence?
1 Cor 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

Has knowledge vanished away? Tongues? And then Paul continues in 1 Cor 14:1. Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.

I and my family attended a church that continued to believe in such gifts, we prayed with them to receive the Holy Spirit, and all of us did evidenced by speaking in tongues. None of us retained tongues as a gift, but I know God has used me to pray for a dead baby and he came to life. I later took him to a Bronco’s football game on his sixteenth birthday.

 

[Jesse]

:nod

Jesse, I have not see where one person in this thread say anything like that.

What not of God? The conversation with different opinions? The most division I have ever seen is between OSAS and non-OSAS.

I'm with Rollo, we are together. What bind us all together is much stronger than our piddily little discussions. The love of Christ.

This topic is more than an everyday discussion.

It's about ONE rule of what one should be doing as a Christian and if we don't perform this ONE rule than there is something wrong.

 

[Kathi]

This topic is more than an everyday discussion.

It's about ONE rule of what one should be doing as a Christian and if we don't perform this ONE rule than there is something wrong.

You know what Jesse?That is how I feel.Time will tell.

 

[Deborah13]

I never said anything of what you claim I said here. Not a word about interpreters, not a word about it being a different language, not a word about speaking of language between God and myself - not one word about any of it.

I know what you're talking about, you're talking about people who claim Christ but don't speak in tongues are not really believers, otherwise we would have the Holy Spirit and speak in tongues.

Most of us have heard all of this before. You are someone "special", have placed yourself in a different "class" than those who do not speak in tongues, and are somehow beyond and above everyone else.

I was saved when I was 8 years old, God would take me out of myself every night and held me - why? Because He was the only Father I knew, I knew He loved me, because I was abused and would be terrified at night, He was the ONLY comforter I knew. It happened every night for several years. It's difficult to describe how God did take me out of myself, but the only thing I can think of was that God took my spirit or my soul and held it. There is more, but it seems it may be a waste of time to give my entire testimony at this point, only because the proof of speaking in tongues is absent and this is the only thing that will satisfy all of you.

So for you all to make the claim that I have not had the 2nd baptism of the Holy Spirit and do not have supernatural gifts, because I don't have to use speaking in tongues to prove I am indwelt by the Holy Spirit, I'm pretty sure God is having a good laugh about right now - or shaking His head, either one.

You all have taken what is Holy and twisted it to make others feel like they are inadequate and worthless in the Kingdom of God.

Jesse, please get this straight. I think I can speak for many, many of us on at least this point. We all believe you are a believer. That you love Jesus and Jesus loves you.

I personally believe everything you have said about you and the Holy Spirit gifts.
NOT every Believer speaks in tongues.
Not every Believer has the same gifts.
Not every Believer has supernatural gifts.
But every believer has gifts.

But every believer is just as important as the other.

 

[jasonc]

This topic is more than an everyday discussion.

It's about ONE rule of what one should be doing as a Christian and if we don't perform this ONE rule than there is something wrong.

you are reading into that too much. honestly a few here think but don't post that if one isn't a pre tribber they might be lost or lack insight. see how we divide.

feel free not to be a Pentecostal. some don't and while I think that is there loss its something one has to see and want it.

 

[Deborah13]

This topic is more than an everyday discussion.

It's about ONE rule of what one should be doing as a Christian and if we don't perform this ONE rule than there is something wrong.

There is nothing wrong if someone doesn't speak in tongues!!
So what if they don't speak in tongues, it's not a requirement for anything.

 

[Kathi]

Jesse, please get this straight. I think I can speak for many, many of us on at least this point. We all believe you are a believer. That you love Jesus and Jesus loves you.

I personally believe everything you have said about you and the Holy Spirit gifts.
NOT every Believer speaks in tongues.
Not every Believer has the same gifts.
Not every Believer has supernatural gifts.
But every believer has gifts.

But every believer is just as important as the other.

Jesse,is very upset and very,very disillusioned with CF.I think he has left.

 

[Willie T]

I used to teach that all received the infilling of the Holy Spirit when they received Christ, and I quoted the following scripture as the basis for not believing the continuation of spiritual gifts such as prophesy and tongues for this present age.

1 Cor 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
1 Cor 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. When? Would it be when we are in Jesus’ presence?
1 Cor 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

Has knowledge vanished away? Tongues? And then Paul continues in 1 Cor 14:1. Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.

I and my family attended a church that continued to believe in such gifts, we prayed with them to receive the Holy Spirit, and all of us did evidenced by speaking in tongues. None of us retained tongues as a gift, but I know God has used me to pray for a dead baby and he came to life. I later took him to a Bronco’s football game on his sixteenth birthday.

That is fantastic!

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I never said anything of what you claim I said here. Not a word about interpreters, not a word about it being a different language, not a word about speaking of language between God and myself - not one word about any of it.

I know what you're talking about, you're talking about people who claim Christ but don't speak in tongues are not really believers, otherwise we would have the Holy Spirit and speak in tongues.

Most of us have heard all of this before. You are someone "special", have placed yourself in a different "class" than those who do not speak in tongues, and are somehow beyond and above everyone else.

I was saved when I was 8 years old, God would take me out of myself every night and held me - why? Because He was the only Father I knew, I knew He loved me, because I was abused and would be terrified at night, He was the ONLY comforter I knew. It happened every night for several years. It's difficult to describe how God did take me out of myself, but the only thing I can think of was that God took my spirit or my soul and held it. There is more, but it seems it may be a waste of time to give my entire testimony at this point, only because the proof of speaking in tongues is absent and this is the only thing that will satisfy all of you.

So for you all to make the claim that I have not had the 2nd baptism of the Holy Spirit and do not have supernatural gifts, because I don't have to use speaking in tongues to prove I am indwelt by the Holy Spirit, I'm pretty sure God is having a good laugh about right now - or shaking His head, either one.

You all have taken what is Holy and twisted it to make others feel like they are inadequate and worthless in the Kingdom of God.

Jesse, I like you.
Please read post #229 and try to understand.

 

[Willie T]

Jesse and Kathi,
Do you realize you are doing just exactly what the Bible says happened at The Upper Room? One thing was spoken (Many call it gibberish), but the people doing the hearing, heard something else. Congratulations, you are in good company.

But I kind of doubt The Holy Spirit has much to do with what just happened here.

I doubt you think the Holy Spirit has much to do with anyone that doesn't speak in tongues and there lies the problem.[/QUOTE]
Slow down some. Where on Earth did you ever get that idea?

 

[Deborah13]

I used to teach that all received the infilling of the Holy Spirit when they received Christ, and I quoted the following scripture as the basis for not believing the continuation of spiritual gifts such as prophesy and tongues for this present age.

1 Cor 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
1 Cor 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. When? Would it be when we are in Jesus’ presence?
1 Cor 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

Has knowledge vanished away? Tongues? And then Paul continues in 1 Cor 14:1. Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.

I and my family attended a church that continued to believe in such gifts, we prayed with them to receive the Holy Spirit, and all of us did evidenced by speaking in tongues. None of us retained tongues as a gift, but I know God has used me to pray for a dead baby and he came to life. I later took him to a Bronco’s football game on his sixteenth birthday.

:woot

 

[jasonc]

sad the misunderstands we have. I have been on both sides of this. I have listen to both sides of the aisle. that is why I know the bible on this. I knew the support for the use of the gifts from my church of god twist of the bible. still do. its already been said.

Jesse you have challenged me to think on what I was taught on this stuff. that is a good thing. time to hit up the pastor and elders in my church.