The Church reigning with Him on Earth.

[for_his_glory]

Rapture, or as scripture calls it being caught up, 1Thessalonians 4:13-18, is explained in these verses if you read them for what they say. Parentheses are added by myself as they are not part of the scripture, but reveal that Rev 14:11-20 is the precursor for the catching up of the saints (Rapture) that makes up the true body of Christ. This is separating the wheat from the tares or in other words saints from sinners as sinners being those who have taken the mark of the beast in Rev 13. Christ is sending the angels to separate the wheat from the tares to protect His own as they continue to witness Christ to those who will finally have ears to hear up to and during Gods seven vial judgments, Rev 15:1-8; 16:1-21.

After mystery Babylon is revealed and then destroyed, Rev Chapters 17, 18, heaven rejoices her destruction as the beast and false prophet are cast into the lake of fire. It is not until we read in Rev 19 of Christ second coming as we, His Bride, have prepared ourselves, those in the grave and we that are still alive, to be caught up together to the clouds and given our new glorified bodies as we are arrayed in fine linen, clean and white then meet Christ in the air, 1Thessalonians 4:13-18, as we are then joined to our Groom (Jesus) for the marriage supper (union) of the Lamb and His Bride. Fine linen means we are now arrayed in Gods righteousness.

We then immediately come down to earth with Him as Jesus plants His feet on the Mount of Olives, Zechariah 14:4, to fight the final battle as He smites the nations and now rules over them. Jesus will then cast Satan into the lake of fire with the beast and the false prophet that has caused a great falling away, 2Thessalonians 2:3. Then comes Gods final judgment on those who have rejected Christ and they are then cast into the lake of fire for their names were not found written in the Lambs Book of Life, Rev Chapter 20. Heaven and earth are restored and the New Jerusalem is ushered down and we are with the Lord for eternity.

Genesis Chapter 49; Deuteronomy 31:28-30; Jeremiah 30:18-24; Daniel 12:1-4; Matthew 24:21-31; 25:31-33; John 6:37-40; Revelation 14:11-16

 

[JLB]

The Gentiles were grafted onto the exact place the Jews were broken off from.

One Gospel for both. One God. One Christ. One message. One sacrifice.

There is no plurality in how God saves mankind.

One feast, where all will eat.

 

[Bick]

Yes, the dead in Christ rise first, then we will be changed, but it happens instantly, "in the twinkling of an eye". 1 Cor. 15:51-52.
But if the Church body of Christ will be reigning with Christ for the millennium (the age to come), what does it mean when Paul reveals to us in Eph.2:4-7, that the church body of Christ will be on display in the heavenlies for the ages to come?

 

[Jim Parker]

But if the Church body of Christ will be reigning with Christ for the millennium (the age to come),

Another view is that this IS the millennium because Christ began reigning at Mat 28:118 when He announced that all authority in heaven and on earth already HAD BEEN given (past tense) to Him. Having all power and authority in heaven and earth is the definition of the word "reign."

 

[Edward]

Both sides of this makes good case. I'm uncertain either way. I have two questions at this point.

Is the entire church body the Bride of Christ?

Will the Bride of Christ go through the tribulation period here on earth?

 

[JLB]

Both sides of this makes good case. I'm uncertain either way. I have two questions at this point.

Is the entire church body the Bride of Christ?

Will the Bride of Christ go through the tribulation period here on earth?

Of course the Church will go through the tribulation.

• Jesus personally destroys the antichrist, by His coming, the same coming by which the Church is gathered unto Him at the resurrection/rapture.

There are 3 scriptural facts that concern the coming of the Lord to gather His people at the resurrection and rapture, in which once these 3 things are known, there is no more confusion about this subject.


15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17


1.] The resurrection of the dead in Christ occurs at the coming of the Lord, before the rapture.

• And the dead in Christ will rise first. v. 16

2.] Just after the resurrection of the dead in Christ, the rapture will occur at the coming of the Lord, whereby both the living and dead in Christ, will be caught up together to be with the Lord in the air.

• Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. v.17

3.] The third fact about the coming of the Lord, is that the antichrist will be destroyed, by the brightness of His coming.

• Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8

...the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.


The 3 major things that occur at His coming:

1. The Resurrection of the dead in Christ.
2. The Rapture.
3. The destruction of the antichrist.

Once each person comes to understand these three major truths that occur at His coming, there will be no more confusion about this doctrine.



JLB

 

[Douglas Summers]

A Good Study JLB. I don't agree with all of it, but it is better than most who expound on this subject.

 

[dirtfarmer]

Of course the Church will go through the tribulation.

• Jesus personally destroys the antichrist, by His coming, the same coming by which the Church is gathered unto Him at the resurrection/rapture.

There are 3 scriptural facts that concern the coming of the Lord to gather His people at the resurrection and rapture, in which once these 3 things are known, there is no more confusion about this subject.


15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17


1.] The resurrection of the dead in Christ occurs at the coming of the Lord, before the rapture.

• And the dead in Christ will rise first. v. 16

2.] Just after the resurrection of the dead in Christ, the rapture will occur at the coming of the Lord, whereby both the living and dead in Christ, will be caught up together to be with the Lord in the air.

• Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. v.17

3.] The third fact about the coming of the Lord, is that the antichrist will be destroyed, by the brightness of His coming.

• Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8

...the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.


The 3 major things that occur at His coming:

1. The Resurrection of the dead in Christ.
2. The Rapture.
3. The destruction of the antichrist.

Once each person comes to understand these three major truths that occur at His coming, there will be no more confusion about this doctrine.



JLB

hello JLB, dirtfarmer here

Where does Zechariah 14:1-4 fit in with you eschatology?

 

[JLB]

hello JLB, dirtfarmer here

Where does Zechariah 14:1-4 fit in with you eschatology?

That is the coming of the Lord as mentioned in 1 Thessalonians 4, &
2 Thessalonians 2, and Revelation 19 and Matthew 24.


JLB

 

[Edward]

Of course the Church will go through the tribulation.

• Jesus personally destroys the antichrist, by His coming, the same coming by which the Church is gathered unto Him at the resurrection/rapture.

There are 3 scriptural facts that concern the coming of the Lord to gather His people at the resurrection and rapture, in which once these 3 things are known, there is no more confusion about this subject.


15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17


1.] The resurrection of the dead in Christ occurs at the coming of the Lord, before the rapture.

• And the dead in Christ will rise first. v. 16

2.] Just after the resurrection of the dead in Christ, the rapture will occur at the coming of the Lord, whereby both the living and dead in Christ, will be caught up together to be with the Lord in the air.

• Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. v.17

3.] The third fact about the coming of the Lord, is that the antichrist will be destroyed, by the brightness of His coming.

• Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8

...the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.


The 3 major things that occur at His coming:

1. The Resurrection of the dead in Christ.
2. The Rapture.
3. The destruction of the antichrist.

Once each person comes to understand these three major truths that occur at His coming, there will be no more confusion about this doctrine.



JLB

That does make sense Brother, but it does leave a coupe questions unanswered. One is...It is not my understanding that the entire church is the Bride of Christ. That only the unblemished and spotless ones are. Many will be saved, but not all make it to unblemished, hence the rank in heaven and the differences in rewards and such.

The second question would be about
Isaiah 26:20
20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.../

Taken in context, this chapter is about the last days...so where does this fit in? I had thought that perhaps it was referring to those who might be raptured out before it gets bad in the trib...so if not, then what?

And another thing...where is the marriage supper supposed to happen, and who all is going to be in attendance?

 

[Douglas Summers]

That is the coming of the Lord as mentioned in 1 Thessalonians 4, &
2 Thessalonians 2, and Revelation 19 and Matthew 24.


JLB

I myself believe them to be different events. The Rapture in Thessalonians, and two last battles in Revelations. The battle of Armageddon (Rev. 19:11-16) before the 1000 years reign of Christ, and the last battle at the end of the 1000 years. The Battle of Gog and Magog. (Rev. 20:7-9). The Church is raptured out at the meeting in the air before the Tribulation. (Rev. 3:10)

 

[dianegcook]

This is a good discussion, everyone gave good points.
Question?
The 144000 are the first fruits, Rev.14:4
So according to Rev.9:4, they cannot hurt the 144000, which are sealed.
So by my understanding, the 144000 are going through tribulation?

The second coming and the rapture are the same. Imho

The 1st coming
Of course He came and died for us.
2nd coming to reign on earth,
Rev.11:15
The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ, and reign forever.
2 dispensation
Luke 4:17-21
As Jesus stood up to read from the book of Isaiah, He read,
The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me, because He hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor, He hath sent Me to heal the broken hearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, to preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

And He closed the book, gave it to the minister, and sat down...
And began to say unto them,
This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears..

This was First advent...

This was fulfilled..
He could not read it all because there are 2 advents,

He was reading from Isa.61:1,2
The Spirit of the Lord God is upon Me, because the Lord hath anointed Me to preach good tidings unto the meek, He hath sent Me to bind up the broken hearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound, to proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord,,,,,
This He could not or did not read.

And the day of vengeance of our God, to comfort all that mourn.

The day of vengeance is yet to come, the second advent.

Another point :
Where are the dead now?
In a hole in the ground?
Maybe our flesh but not our spirit.
Flesh returns to dust, spirit RETURNS to God. Ecc.12:7
The Spirit is the intellect of the soul, imho.

1Thess.4:13, 14 some call the so called rapture
But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, CONCERNING THEM WHICH ARE ASLEEP, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope, ( loved ones deceased).
FOR IF WE BELIEVE THAT JESUS DIED AND ROSE again, EVEN SO them also which sleep in Jesus WILL GOD BRING WITH HIM.

Coming here to reign...
It surely doesn't state this happens before the tribulation.
It states in 1Cor. 15:52 it occurs at the last trump..
The last trump:
Rev.11:15-18
The kingdoms became Christ's.
Give reward to the servants, and saints...
Rev.20:6
Be priest of God and of Christ, and reign with Him a 1000 years.

The deceased are already with Him, of course we can not precede them, they are first....
Then we join them in the Spirit, air, and reign with Christ..
Cloud of witnesses, people, like a cloud of locusts, Heb.12:1
Absent from the body, present with the Lord.
As those that died and were given white robes, Rev.6:11
As someone stated in Mark 13:27
Gather together from the uttermost part of the EARTH and HEAVEN...

2Peter3:8-12
1 day is with the Lord as a 1000 years, and a 1000 years as 1 day.
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in the which the heavens will pass away with great noise, and the elements ( evil rudiments) shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the WORKS that are therein shall be burned up.

God is a consuming fire...

 

[Eugene]

Is the entire church body the Bride of Christ?

NO, the entire Church is not the bride.
Rev 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
Rev 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness (Righteous deeds) of saints.

Will the Bride of Christ go through the tribulation period here on earth?

NO, the bride will be with Jesus prior to the tribulation when He receives His own throne in Rev 4:2.
They are the twenty-four elders of Rev 4:4 that remained faithful unto death that received a crown of life according to their judgment in Rev 2:10, and the four beasts or living ones that patiently keep God's word (Rev 3:10) until Jesus came for them in the air. All manner of the resurrection occurs in the manner of 1 Thes 4:15-17, the dead in Christ first (the elders), and then those alive at His coming that were ready and looking for Him.

Jesus says to them in Rev 3:10, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth also are said to have a crown in Rev 3:11.

There remains some of the Church called the Great Multitude of Christendom of Rev 7:9 that were not caught up with the bride, and they are said to have come out of great tribulation (Rev 7:14), and stand before God's throne in Rev 7:15.

 

[JLB]

I myself believe them to be different events. The Rapture in Thessalonians, and two last battles in Revelations. The battle of Armageddon (Rev. 19:11-16) before the 1000 years reign of Christ, and the last battle at the end of the 1000 years. The Battle of Gog and Magog. (Rev. 20:7-9). The Church is raptured out at the meeting in the air before the Tribulation. (Rev. 3:10)

There are 3 scriptural facts that concern the coming of the Lord to gather His people at the resurrection and rapture, in which once these 3 things are known, there is no more confusion about this subject.


15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17


1.] The resurrection of the dead in Christ occurs at the coming of the Lord, before the rapture.

• And the dead in Christ will rise first. v. 16

2.] Just after the resurrection of the dead in Christ, the rapture will occur at the coming of the Lord, whereby both the living and dead in Christ, will be caught up together to be with the Lord in the air.

• Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. v.17

3.] The third fact about the coming of the Lord, is that the antichrist will be destroyed, by the brightness of His coming.

• Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8

The coming of the Lord, results in the resurrection/rapture of the Church and the destruction of the wicked, which includes the antichrist.

• And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:8

JLB

 

[JLB]

That does make sense Brother, but it does leave a coupe questions unanswered. One is...It is not my understanding that the entire church is the Bride of Christ. That only the unblemished and spotless ones are. Many will be saved, but not all make it to unblemished, hence the rank in heaven and the differences in rewards and such.

The Church His Bride -

31 “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” 32 This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church. Ephesians 5:31-32

• be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

Please consider that those who are spotless are His Church, which are His bride.

• Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord: Hebrews 12:14

• Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.” 2 Timothy 2:19

• Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 1 John 3:7

I found out in my personal walk with the Lord, when I began to spend time with Him, and seek Him, and stopped just explaining away what the scriptures actually say, but rather, sought to do what the scriptures say, the more I cried out for His grace and to be filled with His Spirit, to do what His says says.

We can not walk in the truth while deceiving ourselves about what His word says.

It is knowing the truth, that sets us free from deception.

• And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. John 8:32

If we seek to play games with God's word, by twisting the scriptures, and redefining His words and phrases to fit our "Modern American" culture, and belief system, we will continue to walk in darkness, thinking we are something that we are not.

We will be ever learning, but never experiencing the truth of His word.

6 For of this sort are those who creep into households and make captives of gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts, 7 always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 8 Now as Jannes and Jambres resisted Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, disapproved concerning the faith; 9 but they will progress no further, for their folly will be manifest to all, as theirs also was. 2 Timothy 3:6-9


One thing I admire about you Edward, is you have a receptive heart, and seem to always want the truth.



JLB

 

[Douglas Summers]

.] The resurrection of the dead in Christ occurs at the coming of the Lord, before the rapture.

• And the dead in Christ will rise first. v. 16

2.] Just after the resurrection of the dead in Christ, the rapture will occur at the coming of the Lord, whereby both the living and dead in Christ, will be caught up together to be with the Lord in the air.

• Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. v.17

3.] The third fact about the coming of the Lord, is that the antichrist will be destroyed, by the brightness of His coming.

• Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8

I disagree.

 

[Jim Parker]

Is the entire church body the Bride of Christ?

Yes

Will the Bride of Christ go through the tribulation period here on earth?

Has been for almost 2000 years

 

[Bick]

Both sides of this makes good case. I'm uncertain either way. I have two questions at this point.

Is the entire church body the Bride of Christ?

Will the Bride of Christ go through the tribulation period here on earth?

Bick here. First, I don't see that the Church Body of Christ is the bride of Christ. Think about this: in Rom. 8:14, 23; Gal. 3:36, 4:6 and Eph. 1:5 we are told we are sons of God with all the privileges God provides.
My friends, we cannot be sons and a bride.
The "bride of the Lamb is believing Israelites.

 

[Edward]

Bick here. First, I don't see that the Church Body of Christ is the bride of Christ. Think about this: in Rom. 8:14, 23; Gal. 3:36, 4:6 and Eph. 1:5 we are told we are sons of God with all the privileges God provides.
My friends, we cannot be sons and a bride.
The "bride of the Lamb is believing Israelites.

That makes perfect sense to me Brother. I was looking for an answer with scripture.

From what I've read there are four levels of relationship with God. Servant, friend, son, and Bride.

 

[JLB]

I disagree.

Ok.

Which point do you disagree with?

1.] The resurrection of the dead in Christ occurs at the coming of the Lord, before the rapture.

• And the dead in Christ will rise first. v. 16

2.] Just after the resurrection of the dead in Christ, the rapture will occur at the coming of the Lord, whereby both the living and dead in Christ, will be caught up together to be with the Lord in the air.

• Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. v.17

3.] The third fact about the coming of the Lord, is that the antichrist will be destroyed, by the brightness of His coming.


JLB